Guild Wars 2

anyone tried to play pvp or wvw yet with this now useless skill lol !
people just spam knock downs … this was a pretty hard core nerf ! i can’t even begin to tell u how much fun it is to play pvp and get staggered/knocked down the whole game by engines hammer wars and so on . plz tell me i am not the only one who thinks the nerd on infiltrators strike is insane . i love being a 10.000 hp punching bag not this is a nightmare to say the least

Erm wat. Nev use other wpn set, u dont no wat to do??!?

r u kidding me lol what outer wep set saves u from mass knock down spammers lol . no really i get to shadow step out once and get to wait for a long cool down . if u know so much what wep set would save a thief from mass knock down spam!

OH Shield.. sorry thats is engies, i mean Focus… no sorry that is the ele, i can´t remember now but until i can do, run 2-3 stunbreakers or dont melee until everyone have their stuns in cd. Remember thieve have no ways of prevent cc, only ways to get away of some of them.

d/d never had such luxury(read:crutches) but i recommend x/p for blind or s/p for stun evade spam. Dodge once in a while too that helps

s/d might still have best deeps in pvp but if WvW is ur tea ur better off 1 shottin with backstabs and let teammates aoe 4u

Edit: lol shortbow 3 with new init regen so silly, u ever try to hit a thief w/ shortbow out?

Well deserved for those who did it more then 7 time within 10 second. However they need to add more stun breaker and cond removal to compensate.

lol what a nooby way to stay alive lol spam black powder lol r u kidding ! that will be so lame . ya that makes sense given the challenges we face now but really ! idk this is a ugly nerf i mean jeez that nerved the vigor so we can’t dodge as much and the infiltrate strike ! woooo thay r forcing us to use nooby black powder shots idk pretty lame that r making us hold still so people can smash us in 3 hits !

I’ve skillfully interrupted many earthshakers with shadow shot and b.theft/sleight as well.

Maybe you don’t realize how much dmg u can crank out with s/d that makes it still worth the risk. Here’s a tip-thief sword auto attack #1 has almost no windup, so stop spamming 3 so hard and get 1 swing in between button presses (I’m still pretty sure this is not intended as it allows for some comedy with certain builds)

Good thieves don’t die, bad ones do.

You have one stunbreaker which works as two in one(shadowstep), you have another which is a signet, Also if you are fighting vs two or more enemies you can use steal to get a gap between them.

As I said, good thieves don’t die, bad ones do.

trust me i know . but that does not solve the knock down prob when there r several people spamming it u will be dead and i don’t think shadow shot has an aoe blind? but i could be wrong . and that will just throw u in the fight to block one move . idk this is the only nerf i really have a prob with i can live with the perma stealth being messed up .and maybe the vigor nerf … but the vigor nerf and infiltrate strike nerf together is a bit much !

caveman.5840:

trust me i know . but that does not solve the knock down prob when there r several people spamming it u will be dead and i don’t think shadow shot has an aoe blind? but i could be wrong . and that will just throw u in the fight to block one move . idk this is the only nerf i really have a prob with i can live with the perma stealth being messed up .and maybe the vigor nerf … but the vigor nerf and infiltrate strike nerf together is a bit much !

When you get hit by multiple CC’s by multiple people all focusing you, you will die. That’s how this game works. Guardians will die, Warriors will die. Anyone will die.

As Thieves, we have more ways to avoid getting stuck in such a horrible position in the first place. That’s the entire point of our class.

oooo so its a class only for the biggest of trolls with no life sweet so like i said the whole class got nerved because of a couple skilled players ! thats not right ! …… and before all the thief hate came because the perm stealth !!!!!! lol i just bot the the zap for the bolt and the sword class becomes useless

DakSevkla.3278:

caveman.5840:

trust me i know . but that does not solve the knock down prob when there r several people spamming it u will be dead and i don’t think shadow shot has an aoe blind? but i could be wrong . and that will just throw u in the fight to block one move . idk this is the only nerf i really have a prob with i can live with the perma stealth being messed up .and maybe the vigor nerf … but the vigor nerf and infiltrate strike nerf together is a bit much !

When you get hit by multiple CC’s by multiple people all focusing you, you will die. That’s how this game works. Guardians will die, Warriors will die. Anyone will die.

As Thieves, we have more ways to avoid getting stuck in such a horrible position in the first place. That’s the entire point of our class.

trust me i use shadow step !!!!

caveman.5840:

oooo so its a class only for the biggest of trolls with no life sweet so like i said the whole class got nerved because of a couple skilled players ! thats not right ! …… and before all the thief hate came because the perm stealth !!!!!!

Dude, your job as a thief is to watch and down the weakest foe then get away.

If you keep fighting against 123123123 enemies then it’s your problem.

o so we only get to go after the week ! than the thief class will get even more hate lol before we could take on people just fine we should be able to have a out numbered fight !! the mesmer right now is way op compared to the thief !

Elxdark.9702:

caveman.5840:

oooo so its a class only for the biggest of trolls with no life sweet so like i said the whole class got nerved because of a couple skilled players ! thats not right ! …… and before all the thief hate came because the perm stealth !!!!!!

Dude, your job as a thief is to watch and down the weakest foe then get away.

If you keep fighting against 123123123 enemies then it’s your problem.

Agree. If you are trying to play a Thief as a front line damage soaking and dealing Warrior…You’re doing it wrong. A lot of people leave Thief to go play Warrior, because they enjoy the playstyle of up in your face and swinging. That’s alright, that’s not a problem with Thief.

I enjoy engaging, making people think I’m easy prey, and shadowstepping/pulling them into advantageous fights with my Teammates. Or in big zergs, looking for the ele who’s standing still casting Firestorm, and dropping on him like a bag of bricks. See the ele, drop in, hit him hard, get him either dead or almost dead. Either way, he runs, or he dies, and is out of the fight for a while. Then shadowstep back out to the relative safety of your side of the zerg.

That’s why I never Steal into a fight. Plus, I’m traited with Mug, so it’s a heal too. Use Steal halfway through a fight, use Shadowsteps to get into a fight. Already have a way out, and an extra heal. Sexy.

lol i am not playing damage soaking wtf thats impossible as a thief . …. lol u all r just happy the thief can’t play outnumbered fights and now is a wimpy support class . thats y thay gave us that lame venom healing skill . so we can be a wimpy support class lol…. lame i guess i got to start a lame mesmer if i want to do outnumbered fights ….. ooooo butterflies … mesmers r sooooooooo op and u want the thief to be a wimpy support class really ! the thief is not suppose to be a support class either ! . r any of u even a dedicated thief lol or even care about the class being pushed to a SUPPORT class when we where meant to be the worst at support !

How anyone in their right mind can justify being able to escape while being stunned for 2 initiative is beyond me. I understand it hurts, but this change was totally justifyable. They removed the stun break a while back, and now fixed shadow return to not activate while being stunned. Its not just thieves that have to deal with all the hard cc.

I can’t even begin to read that entire paragraph of terrible grammar and a complete misunderstanding of how anything works. Seriously. Go back to your own class forums.

well up the initiative cost on shadow return !
don’t take the stun break !
everyone just wants us to hold still so that they can smash us to death in 3 hits !

No, not for initiative. Slot stun breaks like everyone else.

stop spreading misinformation nagymbear.
it is 5 initiative 3 for teleport and 2 for the return. there is no way to return without using infiltrators strike first.
As for “slotting stun breakers” what s/d thief doesn’t have shadow step/infiltrators signet set.. the only build that wouldn’t is s/d blind spam. (which uses stealth and shadow arts)

Let’s do the math on thief stun breakers… SS – 50s cd, RfI – 60s cd, IS – 30s cd. Not counting Haste(or shadow trap with the cast time, l.o.l.).
So except for IS(which, if I needed to use when in trouble for the stunbreak part killed me as often as saved me) we have only 2 stunbreaks with (almost)1m cd each.

But hey, let’s nerf pretty much the only advantage sword sets have over dagger mainhand, because small cat logic.

DakSevkla.3278:

When you get hit by multiple CC’s by multiple people all focusing you, you will die. That’s how this game works. Guardians will die, Warriors will die. Anyone will die.

As Thieves, we have more ways to avoid getting stuck in such a horrible position in the first place. That’s the entire point of our class.

These classes have a boon called, “stability” and often protection to allow them to do this. Who do you think are the ones doing massive CC to you in the first place? I’ll give you a hint it’s not purely Elementalists.

While I agree Thieves aren’t meant to remain in the fray of a large battle, they were able to go in do some burst and teleport out and switch to ranged if you need to recover. That option only works every 50 seconds (40 traited) now in zergs. Currently we’re mostly stuck as blast finisher support now in zergs.

ty but i am srry but it is not cool to get all this ascended gear . and then be switched to a support class . and spamming blast finishers mmmmm thats thats just not interesting . the only thing i am saying is give us our stun breaker back plz so we r not forced to be a support class . it seems like everyone is happy we have no perm stealth . and the nerf to vigor was painful but at least let us have our stun breaker lol i mean come on , i don’t troll the forums normally but this is wrong !!!!

Oh don’t get me wrong, I absolutely hate the change. If they felt it was too good, then they could have made a change to it that didn’t out-right butcher the skill into being completely useless. As it stands IR is more of an annoyance than help, if they leave it the way it is I would rather them just out-right remove it so we have access to a gap closer without having to deal with the clunkiness of the new return function.

nagymbear.5280:

No, not for initiative. Slot stun breaks like everyone else.

It hasn’t been a stun break for months. It allowed you to use the skill while stunned (like other skills in the game do), but you remained stunned. It seems silly to remove the “Can be used while stunned” functionality of IR without addressing the other skills that can be used while stunned (except of course for stunbreakers, which is part of their design).

If they’re going to kill it this hard I would rather they just removed the shadowstep/return and made it a leap forward and roll back. At least the leap would give a leap finisher and the roll back would work like withdraw or roll for initiative.

IMO, this skill is not working as intended.

The Devs said that Infiltrator’s return would perform the same as before except when being stunned and on port-stomps. Well, fine.

But now, clearly this skill is unable to perform as before, since it gets queued behind many skills, adding its casting time to the completion of the previous skill, and thus, lacking the required responsiveness to use it as a reflex based evasion, like it was before.

So unless the Devs lied deliberately, or declare now that its current state is the intended one, they failed to deliver what they said to us in their patch preview.

Thief is unplayable. Guess I’ll just switch to a super awesome Clerics Venom heal build. Brb while I outheal Guardians.

Pavel.8531:

Let’s do the math on thief stun breakers… SS – 50s cd, RfI – 60s cd, IS – 30s cd. Not counting Haste(or shadow trap with the cast time, l.o.l.).
So except for IS(which, if I needed to use when in trouble for the stunbreak part killed me as often as saved me) we have only 2 stunbreaks with (almost)1m cd each.

But hey, let’s nerf pretty much the only advantage sword sets have over dagger mainhand, because small cat logic.

Lol, lets do the math on ranger stunbreaks as well then, shall we? Lightning reflexes 40s, Signet of renewal 60s, Protect me 60s, Quickening Zephyr 60s.
Necros: Spectral walk 60s, Spectral armor 60s, Plague Signet 60s, Well of Power 50s.

Highlie.7641:

stop spreading misinformation nagymbear.
it is 5 initiative 3 for teleport and 2 for the return. there is no way to return without using infiltrators strike first.
As for “slotting stun breakers” what s/d thief doesn’t have shadow step/infiltrators signet set.. the only build that wouldn’t is s/d blind spam. (which uses stealth and shadow arts)

a thief using just ONE round of IR stun break is like a warrior using skills 2 3 4 and maybe even 5 on their first weapon set…..

would a warrior do that? use 3 or 4 skills sacrificed to move a few hundred range away and drop 1 condi? i think not.

5 initiative for IR is alot. 5. thats 5/12 initiative for ONE move 200-600 range away. thats almost half of our attacks. using it 2x = 12 seconds to recover.

keep it in perspective nagymbear

nagymbear.5280:

Pavel.8531:

Let’s do the math on thief stun breakers… SS – 50s cd, RfI – 60s cd, IS – 30s cd. Not counting Haste(or shadow trap with the cast time, l.o.l.).
So except for IS(which, if I needed to use when in trouble for the stunbreak part killed me as often as saved me) we have only 2 stunbreaks with (almost)1m cd each.

But hey, let’s nerf pretty much the only advantage sword sets have over dagger mainhand, because small cat logic.

Lol, lets do the math on ranger stunbreaks as well then, shall we? Lightning reflexes 40s, Signet of renewal 60s, Protect me 60s, Quickening Zephyr 60s.
Necros: Spectral walk 60s, Spectral armor 60s, Plague Signet 60s, Well of Power 50s.

shall we compare defense too? blocks? invuln? aegis? protection? vigor? Hp? pets? range 1200 or 1500? mmm?

cant just look at one aspect. thief was given this bc of his lack of defense . he needs it. other classes dont.

nagymbear.5280:

Pavel.8531:

Let’s do the math on thief stun breakers… SS – 50s cd, RfI – 60s cd, IS – 30s cd. Not counting Haste(or shadow trap with the cast time, l.o.l.).
So except for IS(which, if I needed to use when in trouble for the stunbreak part killed me as often as saved me) we have only 2 stunbreaks with (almost)1m cd each.

But hey, let’s nerf pretty much the only advantage sword sets have over dagger mainhand, because small cat logic.

Lol, lets do the math on ranger stunbreaks as well then, shall we? Lightning reflexes 40s, Signet of renewal 60s, Protect me 60s, Quickening Zephyr 60s.
Necros: Spectral walk 60s, Spectral armor 60s, Plague Signet 60s, Well of Power 50s.

Now lets add to that comparison base HP, access to Protection/Stability, Access to Blocks, viability of condition specs and so on and so on…

You can’t just look at stunbreakers in a bubble, you have to take into account the class’s strengths and weaknesses as well.

Travlane.5948:

nagymbear.5280:

Pavel.8531:

Let’s do the math on thief stun breakers… SS – 50s cd, RfI – 60s cd, IS – 30s cd. Not counting Haste(or shadow trap with the cast time, l.o.l.).
So except for IS(which, if I needed to use when in trouble for the stunbreak part killed me as often as saved me) we have only 2 stunbreaks with (almost)1m cd each.

But hey, let’s nerf pretty much the only advantage sword sets have over dagger mainhand, because small cat logic.

Lol, lets do the math on ranger stunbreaks as well then, shall we? Lightning reflexes 40s, Signet of renewal 60s, Protect me 60s, Quickening Zephyr 60s.
Necros: Spectral walk 60s, Spectral armor 60s, Plague Signet 60s, Well of Power 50s.

shall we compare defense too? blocks? invuln? aegis? protection? vigor? Hp? pets? range 1200 or 1500? mmm?

cant just look at one aspect. thief was given this bc of his lack of defense . he needs it. other classes dont.

Blocks, invuln, aegis, protection on one side, blinds, evades, teleports, stealth on the other. Pets?? Really? Try to hit any half decent player with a pet:) You are arguing against yourself. Pet range of 1500? Pets can’t even hit moving targets, what are you smoking?

Kyrion.2749:

But now, clearly this skill is unable to perform as before, since it gets queued behind many skills, adding its casting time to the completion of the previous skill, and thus, lacking the required responsiveness to use it as a reflex based evasion, like it was before.

What skills does it get queued behind? I’ll settle for one, if that’s all you have.

Travlane.5948:

Highlie.7641:

stop spreading misinformation nagymbear.
it is 5 initiative 3 for teleport and 2 for the return. there is no way to return without using infiltrators strike first.
As for “slotting stun breakers” what s/d thief doesn’t have shadow step/infiltrators signet set.. the only build that wouldn’t is s/d blind spam. (which uses stealth and shadow arts)

a thief using just ONE round of IR stun break is like a warrior using skills 2 3 4 and maybe even 5 on their first weapon set…..

would a warrior do that? use 3 or 4 skills sacrificed to move a few hundred range away and drop 1 condi? i think not.

5 initiative for IR is alot. 5. thats 5/12 initiative for ONE move 200-600 range away. thats almost half of our attacks. using it 2x = 12 seconds to recover.

keep it in perspective nagymbear

First off, 1 initiative per second and 2 IRs are 10 seconds. And if a warrior uses all its weapon skills, you will totally not be on the same playing field 5 seconds later. Put that in perspective. Lets not play martyr here, nobody will be sad because thieves are cursed by this terrible plague called initiative system. And 200-600 range? Did they nerf range on IR? I thought it was up to 1200.

evilapprentice.6379:

nagymbear.5280:

Pavel.8531:

Let’s do the math on thief stun breakers… SS – 50s cd, RfI – 60s cd, IS – 30s cd. Not counting Haste(or shadow trap with the cast time, l.o.l.).
So except for IS(which, if I needed to use when in trouble for the stunbreak part killed me as often as saved me) we have only 2 stunbreaks with (almost)1m cd each.

But hey, let’s nerf pretty much the only advantage sword sets have over dagger mainhand, because small cat logic.

Lol, lets do the math on ranger stunbreaks as well then, shall we? Lightning reflexes 40s, Signet of renewal 60s, Protect me 60s, Quickening Zephyr 60s.
Necros: Spectral walk 60s, Spectral armor 60s, Plague Signet 60s, Well of Power 50s.

Now lets add to that comparison base HP, access to Protection/Stability, Access to Blocks, viability of condition specs and so on and so on…

You can’t just look at stunbreakers in a bubble, you have to take into account the class’s strengths and weaknesses as well.

The strength of the thief class is not getting hit in the first place, not taking it like a champ. Bunker rangers do that, necros do that.

Interceptor.2653:

Kyrion.2749:

But now, clearly this skill is unable to perform as before, since it gets queued behind many skills, adding its casting time to the completion of the previous skill, and thus, lacking the required responsiveness to use it as a reflex based evasion, like it was before.

What skills does it get queued behind? I’ll settle for one, if that’s all you have.

Cloak & dagger, for example.

Are there really this many thieves that are having this much trouble with stuns?

I mean, either you’re not dodging stuns (which is especially easy against classes like Warrior who have terribly obvious animation tells) or you’re not bringing at least 1 stun breaker, or you’re charging into a huge group of enemies that you shouldn’t be messing with.

I mean, I understand that sometimes you can get caught in a bad place with a zerg, but that’s what the stun breaker is for. I mean, even if that’s on cooldown, you can easily use Daggerstorm, which is your best elite for going up against a zerg anyways (stability + aoe).

You can either look for ways to improve your gameplay or ignore the fact that other people are doing just fine and pretend that you’re really just helpless because of your class choice…and if you choose the latter, then just re-roll and be done with it. But don’t expect much, because an attitude of faulting external factors will always hold you back.

bump. the change was to dramatic and killed the weapon set. especially in spvp.

nagymbear.5280:

Travlane.5948:

Highlie.7641:

stop spreading misinformation nagymbear.
it is 5 initiative 3 for teleport and 2 for the return. there is no way to return without using infiltrators strike first.
As for “slotting stun breakers” what s/d thief doesn’t have shadow step/infiltrators signet set.. the only build that wouldn’t is s/d blind spam. (which uses stealth and shadow arts)

a thief using just ONE round of IR stun break is like a warrior using skills 2 3 4 and maybe even 5 on their first weapon set…..

would a warrior do that? use 3 or 4 skills sacrificed to move a few hundred range away and drop 1 condi? i think not.

5 initiative for IR is alot. 5. thats 5/12 initiative for ONE move 200-600 range away. thats almost half of our attacks. using it 2x = 12 seconds to recover.

keep it in perspective nagymbear

First off, 1 initiative per second and 2 IRs are 10 seconds. And if a warrior uses all its weapon skills, you will totally not be on the same playing field 5 seconds later. Put that in perspective. Lets not play martyr here, nobody will be sad because thieves are cursed by this terrible plague called initiative system. And 200-600 range? Did they nerf range on IR? I thought it was up to 1200.

Initial jump range is 600. Return is 1200. Of course your opponent could just play smartly and walk the 600 units to where you ported from, negating the juke benefit of the ability entirely.

I know how it works as I played s/p a bit in wvw, Travlane was exaggerating.

nagymbear.5280:

Travlane.5948:

nagymbear.5280:

Pavel.8531:

Let’s do the math on thief stun breakers… SS – 50s cd, RfI – 60s cd, IS – 30s cd. Not counting Haste(or shadow trap with the cast time, l.o.l.).
So except for IS(which, if I needed to use when in trouble for the stunbreak part killed me as often as saved me) we have only 2 stunbreaks with (almost)1m cd each.

But hey, let’s nerf pretty much the only advantage sword sets have over dagger mainhand, because small cat logic.

Lol, lets do the math on ranger stunbreaks as well then, shall we? Lightning reflexes 40s, Signet of renewal 60s, Protect me 60s, Quickening Zephyr 60s.
Necros: Spectral walk 60s, Spectral armor 60s, Plague Signet 60s, Well of Power 50s.

shall we compare defense too? blocks? invuln? aegis? protection? vigor? Hp? pets? range 1200 or 1500? mmm?

cant just look at one aspect. thief was given this bc of his lack of defense . he needs it. other classes dont.

Blocks, invuln, aegis, protection on one side, blinds, evades, teleports, stealth on the other. Pets?? Really? Try to hit any half decent player with a pet:) You are arguing against yourself. Pet range of 1500? Pets can’t even hit moving targets, what are you smoking?

its not about 1 thing its about them all. we were given tricky skills to compensate for the WORST defense in game. period. now sword has no defense. BPS is ok but doesnt help against the ranged or aoes. that was infil return

When you say WORST defense in game, what do you think about? A full zerker thief with 10k HP, right? I played a full zerker Longbow ranger in wvw, and my defensive options compared to thief were apalling. Also being ranged never stopped good thieves from closing the gap and killing me rather quickly.

And since you put it like that, it is not about 1 thing. IR is not the only option of getting out of hard CC. It was a bloody good one I’ll give you that, I loved it as well. I ran away from soooo many zergs after I’ve been hit by static fields its rediculous. It just wasn’t right. For 5 inits (7 seconds of untraited init regen before dec 10 patch) it was very very cheap.

nagymbear.5280:

When you say WORST defense in game, what do you think about? A full zerker thief with 10k HP, right? I played a full zerker Longbow ranger in wvw, and my defensive options compared to thief were apalling. Also being ranged never stopped good thieves from closing the gap and killing me rather quickly.

And since you put it like that, it is not about 1 thing. IR is not the only option of getting out of hard CC. It was a bloody good one I’ll give you that, I loved it as well. I ran away from soooo many zergs after I’ve been hit by static fields its rediculous. It just wasn’t right. For 5 inits (7 seconds of untraited init regen before dec 10 patch) it was very very cheap.

Of course your defensive options are worse considering you’re using a weapon with the best range in the game (if traited). This is honestly your fault for expecting to have great survivability using longbow when any enemy is close. You do have a weapon swap and S/X has amazing defense through their massive amounts of dodges, especially S/D. Even greatsword has an evade on auto-attack, a block, swoop which works well as a gap closer and a great way to flee and a decent daze/stun.

We’re the only class without some form of access to protection, we have limited access to regeneration and only one way to get stability (Dagger Storm a 90s cool-down elite). This is the reason we go with more berserk gear than anything. We can’t stay on people like other classes can with high access to stability, protection and regeneration, which means we’re still dodging around even if we’re in PVT gear which in turn makes our damage very bad.

magom.3275:

OH Shield.. sorry thats is engies, i mean Focus… no sorry that is the ele, i can´t remember now but until i can do, run 2-3 stunbreakers or dont melee until everyone have their stuns in cd. Remember thieve have no ways of prevent cc, only ways to get away of some of them.

just a question you don’t run Shadowstep? because that is a fair ranged teleport that is also two stun breakers in one skill.

Dahkeus.8243:

Are there really this many thieves that are having this much trouble with stuns?

I mean, either you’re not dodging stuns (which is especially easy against classes like Warrior who have terribly obvious animation tells) or you’re not bringing at least 1 stun breaker, or you’re charging into a huge group of enemies that you shouldn’t be messing with.

I mean, I understand that sometimes you can get caught in a bad place with a zerg, but that’s what the stun breaker is for. I mean, even if that’s on cooldown, you can easily use Daggerstorm, which is your best elite for going up against a zerg anyways (stability + aoe).

You can either look for ways to improve your gameplay or ignore the fact that other people are doing just fine and pretend that you’re really just helpless because of your class choice…and if you choose the latter, then just re-roll and be done with it. But don’t expect much, because an attitude of faulting external factors will always hold you back.

This entire thing made me want to cut myself. Thanks for opening my eyes about Thief. I’m going to reroll now.

Okay I agree that it should interrupt anything you are doing to activate, much like dodge/weapon swap do.

Having played multiple classes, I don’t think thieves have the worst defense by a long shot. I think we have one of the best defenses.