Guild Wars 2

Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed. Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%. New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.

Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%.

Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.

Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.

Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.

Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.

Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack.

Reduced quickness from 100% attack speed to 50%. (i would argue this hurt thief more than most)

Basilisk Venom skill: No longer immobilizes targets in addition to stunning them.

Mug trait: Can no longer critically hit. Now heals the thief from a range of 1980 health to 2700 health.

Cluster Bomb: Decreased the range set from 1200 to 900.

Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.

Larcenous Strike: This skill now steals only 1 boon.

Pistol Whip: This skill has been split between PvP and PvE. It will now cost 6 initiative in PvP, while maintaining a 5 initiative cost in PvE.

Disabling Shot (Shortbow): Reduced the length of this skill’s evasion component from 100% of the skill’s duration to 64% of the skill’s duration—an overall reduction of .3 seconds.

Choking Gas: Reduced the poison per pulse from 5 seconds to 3 seconds

Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.

Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second. but at the expense of -
-Critical Strikes VIII – Signet Use. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
-Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init. (removal 4combo in bp)
-Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1
-Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.

Black Powder: Increased the interval between pulses to 2 seconds. Reduced the duration of blind to 2 seconds.

and ofcorse the soon to be might nerf + many more that i missed or found insignificant

Why did i list this?? have you played thief recently?

You forgot the Choking Gas now causes Reveal on impact.

You can’t list the soon-to-be might nerf, as it’s not specifically target at the thief. It effects the thief, just like everyone else.

So what’s this thread supposed to accomplish? (Sniffing for tears… delicious, delicious tears…)

#alwaysremember

You must ALWAYS remember.

It’s also dangerous to go alone, so acquire these.

I forgot how much nerfing Thief has received.

Zero Day.2594:

You can’t list the soon-to-be might nerf, as it’s not specifically target at the thief. It effects the thief, just like everyone else.

So what’s this thread supposed to accomplish? (Sniffing for tears… delicious, delicious tears…)

Why not…. global nerfs like the crit nerf and soon to be might nerf hurts theif more than most cause thieves compound these stats more than most to get our damage out

Not to mention that the intent on the might nerf is to nerf cele ele and engi but since might doesn’t effect condi as much as power people who run power only get hurt more

The thread was made to show apparently how insane and godly we were back then but I remember a lot of people even back then saying only bads complain about thief

I feel like damage is not something that should get nerfed . Its fine to deal an insane amount of damage if you also die fast. They should instead nerf acrobatics and shadow arts into the ground and revert damage and utility nerfs.

Thief should be an assassin, kill fast or die. Not some evade spammer or stealth abuser that does crappy dmg but still kills people overtime.

glock.6590:

I feel like damage is not something that should get nerfed . Its fine to deal an insane amount of damage if you also die fast. They should instead nerf acrobatics and shadow arts into the ground and revert damage and utility nerfs.

Thief should be an assassin, kill fast or die. Not some evade spammer or stealth abuser that does crappy dmg but still kills people overtime.

I think having all these builds be viable would be great, but I do agree that an assassin type build should be way more viable than it is now. Due to the current meta being all about sustained damage, we’re kind of pigeoned into acro.

You also forget:

Nine-Tailed Strike and Shadow Assault (increase cost of both by two ini)

This is supposed to be a testament to how poorly designed the thief profession is, right?

Yes, thieves have been nerfed and can only two shot people now.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You forgot the Choking Gas now causes Reveal on impact.

Just after that patch, the damage was a buff in my build since no one ever dodges choking gas. It was basically a free venom application (devourer’s on my build, so free immobilize). People might be a bit smarter now though, haven’t played in a while.

CruleD.7380:

Yes, thieves have been nerfed and can only two shot people now.

Because people still don’t know how to dodge.

OMG how OP thieves were before, fortunately they are repared

Anton.1769:

OMG how OP thieves were before, fortunately they are repared

By far not

official.7362:

Zero Day.2594:

You can’t list the soon-to-be might nerf, as it’s not specifically target at the thief. It effects the thief, just like everyone else.

So what’s this thread supposed to accomplish? (Sniffing for tears… delicious, delicious tears…)

Why not…. global nerfs like the crit nerf and soon to be might nerf hurts theif more than most cause thieves compound these stats more than most to get our damage out

Not to mention that the intent on the might nerf is to nerf cele ele and engi but since might doesn’t effect condi as much as power people who run power only get hurt more

I don’t really considering it a nerf against a thief simply because it’s target at everyone. If I choose to view it as a nerf to a thief, it gives me an extra (crappy) reason to dislike how they’re balancing things. So, yeah, choose not to think of it that way – weird I know.

Anton.1769:

OMG how OP thieves were before, fortunately they are repared

CruleD.7380:

Yes, thieves have been nerfed and can only two shot people now.

Just wait you guys, once you hear that we have the “Assassin” specialization something will click in your brains and cause you to kitten yourselves in fear while screaming at the top of your lungs “OOOOOPEEEEEH!” – the generic mass of you guys.

Came here to see whining, was not disappointed.

iWillDominate.1693:

Came here to see whining, was not disappointed.

I like how warriors come to the thief forums to complain, aswell. They usually come 1 at a time or in small groups.

… and yet we still destroy most people in 10 seconds. It just goes to show how good life is without cooldowns

I Haven’t Tried The Thief PreNerf But The One I’m Using Now I Enjoy (I Started Playing A Few Days Ago, A Day Before The 75% Sale ). So Far, I Enjoy The Thief But If There Are Additional Nerfs … Who Knows?

doesnt matter because warrior is #mostnerfedclass2014

If you are counting global nerfs you forgot (for wvw/pve at least) the addition of the global cooldown on the life steal on berry pies, but I think warrior claimed that as a direct nerf to them.

Anet might need to set up a court date so the profession can get custody of the various global nerfs.

Simon.3794:

doesnt matter because warrior is #mostnerfedclass2014

Good. They have one more year to go and they’ll be on par with thief.

Zero Day.2594:

official.7362:

Zero Day.2594:

You can’t list the soon-to-be might nerf, as it’s not specifically target at the thief. It effects the thief, just like everyone else.

So what’s this thread supposed to accomplish? (Sniffing for tears… delicious, delicious tears…)

Why not…. global nerfs like the crit nerf and soon to be might nerf hurts theif more than most cause thieves compound these stats more than most to get our damage out

Not to mention that the intent on the might nerf is to nerf cele ele and engi but since might doesn’t effect condi as much as power people who run power only get hurt more

I don’t really considering it a nerf against a thief simply because it’s target at everyone. If I choose to view it as a nerf to a thief, it gives me an extra (crappy) reason to dislike how they’re balancing things. So, yeah, choose not to think of it that way – weird I know.

We all know that the Lyssa rune nerf was a nerf to Thieves despite of it being global. And every buff on other professions are nerfs to Thieves since these buffs made Thieves less effective in PvP combat.

Seeing that Eng and Rangers have a Revealed skills also is a nerf to Thieves, as well as the Arrow Cart and Anti-Stealth traps in WvW.

The “no decap while stealth” in sPvP is also a Thief nerf. Even the PvE boss that can one-shot us is a nerf against Thieves because while we remain glassy, other professions are more durable and rarely getting one-shotted.

In fact, all other professions are nerf to Thieves, even the PvE mobs. Thieves shouldn’t die — ever.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

official.7362:

Zero Day.2594:

You can’t list the soon-to-be might nerf, as it’s not specifically target at the thief. It effects the thief, just like everyone else.

So what’s this thread supposed to accomplish? (Sniffing for tears… delicious, delicious tears…)

Why not…. global nerfs like the crit nerf and soon to be might nerf hurts theif more than most cause thieves compound these stats more than most to get our damage out

Not to mention that the intent on the might nerf is to nerf cele ele and engi but since might doesn’t effect condi as much as power people who run power only get hurt more

I don’t really considering it a nerf against a thief simply because it’s target at everyone. If I choose to view it as a nerf to a thief, it gives me an extra (crappy) reason to dislike how they’re balancing things. So, yeah, choose not to think of it that way – weird I know.

We all know that the Lyssa rune nerf was a nerf to Thieves despite of it being global. And every buff on other professions are nerfs to Thieves since these buffs made Thieves less effective in PvP combat.

Seeing that Eng and Rangers have a Revealed skills also is a nerf to Thieves, as well as the Arrow Cart and Anti-Stealth traps in WvW.

The “no decap while stealth” in sPvP is also a Thief nerf. Even the PvE boss that can one-shot us is a nerf against Thieves because while we remain glassy, other professions are more durable and rarely getting one-shotted.

In fact, all other professions are nerf to Thieves, even the PvE mobs. Thieves shouldn’t die — ever.

Yeah true, essentially ever change does effect the thief, opponents getting stronger/weaker, thief getting stronger/weaker.

I just choose to draw the line right after thief’s class changes, otherwise things would be so negative.

Heartseeker: Very fine with this change. Remember the days of the #2 spamming thieves? It is meant as a finishing move and/or a gap closer. Not an attack that you could just spam to kill people.

Assassins Signet: Dude. 6 points in Critical Strikes for shorter signet cool down and 5 might stacks on signet use plus guaranteed critical hit from stealth, coupled with 50% damage. Just too much.

Cloak and Dagger: Should be reverted. Might bring D/D.

Quickness: They should have reverted the PW change when they implemented this. I’m fine with this change alone because 100 blade warriors and PW thieves were just too insane.

Mug: Fine with me. I need the heal more than the damage.

Shadow Return: Can still be cast while immobilized.

Infusion of Shadows: Perfectly fine with this! Stealth spamming d/p thieves in WvW were just too much. Even the worst player could win fights….

Black Powder: Fine with this too. Complete immunity in PvE and too strong in PvP.

Initiative buff/need: One of the best things they have ever done to the thief.

Only responded to those I had an input on.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Simon.3794:

doesnt matter because warrior is #mostnerfedclass2014

Good. They have one more year to go and they’ll be on par with thief.

not even close, warrior was completely out of the PvP meta for more then half a year in 2013
has thief ever been out of any meta at all? non

Simon.3794:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Simon.3794:

doesnt matter because warrior is #mostnerfedclass2014

Good. They have one more year to go and they’ll be on par with thief.

not even close, warrior was completely out of the PvP meta for more then half a year in 2013
has thief ever been out of any meta at all? non

Actually yeah, when people went bunker and thieves were running away more than killing players. You saw it in the QQ players posted. The topic shifted from “teef kill me with 21k bakstab” to “I cant kil Teef keeps resetting”.

And secondly, this thread is about nerfing. Warriors have been nerfed once between 2012 and 2013. Thieves have been buffed once during that time, maybe two more times in 2014.

Stop victimizing your profession, Simon.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Simon.3794:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Simon.3794:

doesnt matter because warrior is #mostnerfedclass2014

Good. They have one more year to go and they’ll be on par with thief.

not even close, warrior was completely out of the PvP meta for more then half a year in 2013
has thief ever been out of any meta at all? non

Actually yeah, when people went bunker and thieves were running away more than killing players. You saw it in the QQ players posted. The topic shifted from “teef kill me with 21k bakstab” to “I cant kil Teef keeps resetting”.

And secondly, this thread is about nerfing. Warriors have been nerfed once between 2012 and 2013. Thieves have been buffed once during that time, maybe two more times in 2014.

Stop victimizing your profession, Simon.

If they everyone stops victimizing their class, how will the barely literate masses know who to feel sorry for and who to complain about in Map chat?

Necrotize.2974:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Simon.3794:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Simon.3794:

doesnt matter because warrior is #mostnerfedclass2014

Good. They have one more year to go and they’ll be on par with thief.

not even close, warrior was completely out of the PvP meta for more then half a year in 2013
has thief ever been out of any meta at all? non

Actually yeah, when people went bunker and thieves were running away more than killing players. You saw it in the QQ players posted. The topic shifted from “teef kill me with 21k bakstab” to “I cant kil Teef keeps resetting”.

And secondly, this thread is about nerfing. Warriors have been nerfed once between 2012 and 2013. Thieves have been buffed once during that time, maybe two more times in 2014.

Stop victimizing your profession, Simon.

If they everyone stops victimizing their class, how will the barely literate masses know who to feel sorry for and who to complain about in Map chat?

The professions that have legitimate issues and the other professions with legitimate issues on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Thing is, even as a thief main since BWE, a lot of this is justified.

I actually believe HS on the high HP end should be nerfed further and the low end be buffed as a finsher. I’m sick of HS spammers using it for damage because it’s easy. It’s an insult to D/D mains.

PW was just too strong and too spammable from BWE. It made dagger builds pretty pointless before the nerfs. Same reason it got an initiative bump.

Have you seen my backstab damage? You must be unfamiliar with my build and just how absolutely ridiculous AS was before when used right. Its spread is justified in that it’s also a smaller nerf than what one might first expect due to the fact AS can be applied to mug/CnD, keeping the damage dealt overall pretty similar. I’ll show you what I mean by it would be overpowered in a screen below.

CnD’s nerf was justified when people were playing all berserker builds in a capture and hold format. The change is irrelevant these days, though (and one I do believe should be changed back), for the meta has changed dramatically and the damage offered by critical attacks lowered in general paired with the overall higher durability from everyone in sPvP.

Dancing Dagger was proving to be too good before its reduction as it had more bounces and more damage, allowing it when used against a group of two to hit harder than a backstab. Reasonable adjustment to damage but not enough utility added/initiative cost changed. It remains a niche skill that can be devastating, though I believe the initiative cost could be reduced.

Detonate Cluster just proved to be better than the un-detonated bomb, so yea.

Revealed is still 3secs in PvE/WvW. Done to keep perma-stealth builds in check in regards to combat prowess/punish perma-stealth builds. Negated some by RT, though the power line generally speaking is ineffective.

Quickness was global. I think it hurt the thief a lot less than say, longbow ranger (RF used to be about as fast as it is now with QZ) and GS warrior (I mean have you seen the old HB videos with Frenzy?). S/P still can reliably strike due to its stun and shorter duration.

BV’s nerf wasn’t so much about the immob but the stone status. Immob would require a stunbreak + cleanse, which is too strong. Stone used to not interrupt, but ignored stability. Justified and reasonable overall.

Mug crits pertains to my damage thing again. The fact I could one-shot any berserker build in the game (or come damage close) while under the effects of CC from range with medium or lower HP is and was absolutely ridiculous to the point where I’m glad they recognized this earlier.

Shortbow nerf in general was deserved on the range, but the lack of a 1200 range option isn’t. The class should have received the longbow as compensation.

Shadow Return was too strong. Condi cleanse, stun break, engage tool, disengage tool, all nicely packaged with a long duration and no cooldown/cast time with low initiative cost. S/D was just too strong.

The entire existence of FS/LS is a hodge-podge of changes. This skill has been reworked so many times that I don’t even know if ANet knows what’s right for it.
(FS used to not have a second part of the skill and was on a higher damage coefficient making spamming 3 for permanent evades a viable strategy). The boon steal is too good in non-boon aspects of the game, so it probably got toned down in that regard. It’s only not OP as 2 on the basis that it’s what actually makes the class useful in sPvP atm.

Shortbow evade is kind of the same deal as the old FS: too much evasion and not enough opportunity cost. Even then, it still has a huge evade frame compared to say, death blossom, while allowing a very controllable re-position.

Choking gas used to be why zergs in WvW ran negative condition duration food. Now it’s necromancers, but the moral of the story is the same.

Overall effectiveness of regeneration was improved with the effects nerfed to give pseudo-cooldowns. It has netted an overall buff to the thief as a whole. The change to Infusion of Shadow was absolutely required and I’m so happy it happened. No more 5 -> 2 -> 2 -> 2 -> 2 -> repeat noobs spamming heartseeker in permanent stealth covered by blind fields.

BP was warranted because it offered too much utility in one skill with a low opportunity cost.

Not saying the thief deserves to be as weak as it is, but for the most part these nerfs got rid of massive gimmicks and has made the class more challenging rather than was just used to be a class anyone could play and spam gimmicks to victory.

The class just needs improvements on existing mechanics and some skills while the rest of the classes need their gimmicks to be toned down.

Screen is me hitting a guardian with no food/stacks long after the AS change (see RT) before my more recent build adjustment to allow for more damage. Assassin’s signet and mug crits on damage like that would be stupidly strong.

As someone who has mained thief since release, I’m okay with most of the nerfs. “2 spammers” and perma-stealthers who hit like wet noodles were just obnoxious. The problem is that all these nerfs are only half-measures.

They take away our burst (most if not all classes can burst for more than thief now with a good build) so we have to stay in fights longer to theoretically win. But they don’t give us the survivability to actually stay in fights. That’s why thief in pvp is relegated to +1ing and decapping empty points right now. It’s a non-contender. If Anet wants longer fights with less bursty thieves, then we need more reliable access to things like regen, protection and condi clears – without having to give up every ounce of damage (“Shadow Arts” yadda yadda “wet noodle” yadda).

Which brings up another gripe actually. Thief damage has been balanced with the assumption of the use of Beserker amulet. Since the damage we do has been toned down and other classes have moved to tankier builds, thief must run zerker to do close to comparable damage. What I would love to see is the option to build tanky or supporty with a non-zerker amulet be a viable thing. Build diversity!

What I don’t understand is why thieves constantly complain like they’re the worst when they’re one of the VERY few classes who have almost always held a spot for Meta/Top Tier pvp and are the highest pve DPS in the game, and can solo 1v3 in wvw. I’m just saying, and I hate to be rude but these are some first world problems…

Granted! Thief is a class that tends to be the hardest to be the best you can with, and theres a very hard swing between bad thieves and great ones, they still remain incredibly (and inrealistically in some cases) strong in almost every field of gameplay, whether its farming and their insane mobility, soloing in WVW or being an incredibly useful glass dps in tpvp. Not a lot of classes can say they’ve had that luck…

Just for instance, Necros have pretty much always been useless in PVE. They’re alright backline, but have no mobility and aren’t very good roamers (not saying that can’t roam, just not anywhere close to high quality), and in SPVP we’ve been forced into conditions which EVERYONE including most necros hate, and again power is one of the squishiest and easily counterable glass specs in the game, though life blast hits decently.

I don’t really mind the state of necro, don’t get me wrong, I’m not pushing my own cries onto you guys, but Thief is literally TOP pve dps, TOP roamer and one of 4 builds with a “meta” stamp in tpvp that they’ve never really lost. If anything, all this does is display how crazy they may have been before. And you have to consider when thief got nerfed, they weren’t alone. That’s part of the reason these buffs can’t be held so accountable to their current state because thieves havent been the only tuning dial.

ronpierce.2760:

What I don’t understand is why thieves constantly complain like they’re the worst when they’re one of the VERY few classes who have almost always held a spot for Meta/Top Tier pvp and are the highest pve DPS in the game, and can solo 1v3 in wvw. I’m just saying, and I hate to be rude but these are some first world problems…

Granted! Thief is a class that tends to be the hardest to be the best you can with, and theres a very hard swing between bad thieves and great ones, they still remain incredibly (and inrealistically in some cases) strong in almost every field of gameplay, whether its farming and their insane mobility, soloing in WVW or being an incredibly useful glass dps in tpvp. Not a lot of classes can say they’ve had that luck…

Just for instance, Necros have pretty much always been useless in PVE. They’re alright backline, but have no mobility and aren’t very good roamers (not saying that can’t roam, just not anywhere close to high quality), and in SPVP we’ve been forced into conditions which EVERYONE including most necros hate, and again power is one of the squishiest and easily counterable glass specs in the game, though life blast hits decently.

I don’t really mind the state of necro, don’t get me wrong, I’m not pushing my own cries onto you guys, but Thief is literally TOP pve dps, TOP roamer and one of 4 builds with a “meta” stamp in tpvp that they’ve never really lost. If anything, all this does is display how crazy they may have been before. And you have to consider when thief got nerfed, they weren’t alone. That’s part of the reason these buffs can’t be held so accountable to their current state because thieves havent been the only tuning dial.

All that awesome thief crap everyone complains about comes from d/d. One (maybe 2) weaponset(s). And that is really all thieves use because everything else can’t compare to it. Good damage, high survivability and very effective against bad players. And there are ALOT of bad players in this game.

And thieves defend it hardcore because they will leave the profession if it starts to suck (and they don’t want to do that because it is the least boring profession). They’ve done it before.

yolo swaggins.2570:

ronpierce.2760:

What I don’t understand is why thieves constantly complain like they’re the worst when they’re one of the VERY few classes who have almost always held a spot for Meta/Top Tier pvp and are the highest pve DPS in the game, and can solo 1v3 in wvw. I’m just saying, and I hate to be rude but these are some first world problems…

Granted! Thief is a class that tends to be the hardest to be the best you can with, and theres a very hard swing between bad thieves and great ones, they still remain incredibly (and inrealistically in some cases) strong in almost every field of gameplay, whether its farming and their insane mobility, soloing in WVW or being an incredibly useful glass dps in tpvp. Not a lot of classes can say they’ve had that luck…

Just for instance, Necros have pretty much always been useless in PVE. They’re alright backline, but have no mobility and aren’t very good roamers (not saying that can’t roam, just not anywhere close to high quality), and in SPVP we’ve been forced into conditions which EVERYONE including most necros hate, and again power is one of the squishiest and easily counterable glass specs in the game, though life blast hits decently.

I don’t really mind the state of necro, don’t get me wrong, I’m not pushing my own cries onto you guys, but Thief is literally TOP pve dps, TOP roamer and one of 4 builds with a “meta” stamp in tpvp that they’ve never really lost. If anything, all this does is display how crazy they may have been before. And you have to consider when thief got nerfed, they weren’t alone. That’s part of the reason these buffs can’t be held so accountable to their current state because thieves havent been the only tuning dial.

All that awesome thief crap everyone complains about comes from d/d. One (maybe 2) weaponset(s). And that is really all thieves use because everything else can’t compare to it. Good damage, high survivability and very effective against bad players. And there are ALOT of bad players in this game.

And thieves defend it hardcore because they will leave the profession if it starts to suck (and they don’t want to do that because it is the least boring profession). They’ve done it before.

I’m all for other set ups getting buffed, I don’t hate thieves, but I do find it silly to act like the class is at its end. D/P+SB is still a #1 build in tPVP, D/D(?) is top dps in PVE, and D/D causes issues in wvw. SB is still very effective for what it’s supposed to do, D/P and D/D are fine, and maybe even too good.

Beyond that, perhaps other builds need some love, but they’re not in a crippling spot I’d say, others have it much worse. I’m just suggesting maybe ease up on the drama a bit. Thieves are in a good spot overall and are pretty lucky. Also many of the better builds benefited from the init change. It hurt some cheese but helped all of the others a great deal, especially some of the under-performing weapons.

The reality is, thieves used to be insane, they’re still OP in some senses and have little build diversity. But other classes have more diversity but could only dream of having any spec as potent. Skill ceiling isn’t a reason to be grossly powerful.

And for them killing bad players, its not that. D/P Is a #1 rank build in tPVP, that means purely against the meta comp high rollers, its a stand out build with Celest Eles, Shoutbow and Engineer Celest rifle.

The only thing that benefited from the initiative change was p/d. Since most builds during that time used alot of the initiative gain traits, having ini gain nerfed by 50%+ also hurt those builds. The reason why p/d got buffed was because p/d was so light on initiative use that initiative gain traits were unnecessary. This made the ini buff (initiative regen nerf removal) a legitimate buff for it.

Oh, so D/D is OP – I never would’ve guessed.
I rarely meet D/D thieves though.

Jana.6831:

Oh, so D/D is OP – I never would’ve guessed.
I rarely meet D/D thieves though.

I wouldn’t have, ether. Who knew that the least-effective weapon combination in sPvP would be so blatantly overpowered in WvW.

D/D is a fair set. It’s designed by principle to optimize damage over everything else. It has pretty much no utility/durability outside of the very situational Dancing Dagger and Death Blossom. D/P is used in sPvP only because of its extremely powerful utility/control effects and reset/gank potential via stealth that does not require a condition to get access to, and is taken in WvW from it’s stealth options and synergy with Shadow Arts paired with the best and most spammable gap closer in the game.

Y’know what’s an overpowered combination? P/D. Now that is a set which I believe is setting the whole class back in regards to unnecessary nerfs/lack of buffs. It’s overly-forgiving and borderline risk-free while able to pump out huge condition damage values, and is even compatible with power builds from its obscene damage on #3.

DeceiverX.8361:

Jana.6831:

Oh, so D/D is OP – I never would’ve guessed.
I rarely meet D/D thieves though.

I wouldn’t have, ether. Who knew that the least-effective weapon combination in sPvP would be so blatantly overpowered in WvW.

D/D is a fair set. It’s designed by principle to optimize damage over everything else. It has pretty much no utility/durability outside of the very situational Dancing Dagger and Death Blossom. D/P is used in sPvP only because of its extremely powerful utility/control effects and reset/gank potential via stealth that does not require a condition to get access to, and is taken in WvW from it’s stealth options and synergy with Shadow Arts paired with the best and most spammable gap closer in the game.

Y’know what’s an overpowered combination? P/D. Now that is a set which I believe is setting the whole class back in regards to unnecessary nerfs/lack of buffs. It’s overly-forgiving and borderline risk-free while able to pump out huge condition damage values, and is even compatible with power builds from its obscene damage on #3.

The only thing I can imagine why D/D would be considered “overpowered” is because of the stealth access via enemy walls, but that’s it and S/D and P/D exist as well, so they can stealth on walls as well. And honestly – I almost never use that option.

Personally, I believe part of the reason why you do not see d/d thieves so much because it is Cliche. And it just feels straight horrible to use simply because of the toxicity built up around it.

But that is just my opinion.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Personally, I believe part of the reason why you do not see d/d thieves so much because it is Cliche. And it just feels straight horrible to use simply because of the toxicity built up around it.

But that is just my opinion.

No, the reason why you almost never see it is because it has got no utility.
There are still tons of P/D thieves around although it’s called “cheese”.

The whole profession is cheese according to those people.

yolo swaggins.2570:

The whole profession is cheese according to those people.

No, most thieves I know (and I know a lot) hate P/D.

Edit: And honestly, you don’t make much sense by claiming “D/D is op but not played as much because it’s cliche” and in the same breath “Those who call something ‘cliche/cheese’ call the whole class cliche and cheese”.

Jana.6831:

yolo swaggins.2570:

The whole profession is cheese according to those people.

No, most thieves I know (and I know a lot) hate P/D.

Edit: And honestly, you don’t make much sense by claiming “D/D is op but not played as much because it’s cliche” and in the same breath “Those who call something ‘cliche/cheese’ call the whole class cliche and cheese”.

You are twisting my words (again). I never said d/d was OP, I said it had good damage and survivability. Saying d/d isn’t used as much because it is cliche and is the cause of thieve’s bad rep was an opinion which I clearly stated. And finally, I just said cheese. If you hadn’t notice, a majority of the people who complain against the profession eventually say call the whole profession cheese.

yolo swaggins.2570:

The whole profession is cheese according to those people.

Perhaps we’ll get Cheese as specialisation with the expansion.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Jana.6831:

yolo swaggins.2570:

The whole profession is cheese according to those people.

No, most thieves I know (and I know a lot) hate P/D.

Edit: And honestly, you don’t make much sense by claiming “D/D is op but not played as much because it’s cliche” and in the same breath “Those who call something ‘cliche/cheese’ call the whole class cliche and cheese”.

You are twisting my words (again). I never said d/d was OP, I said it had good damage and survivability. Saying d/d isn’t used as much because it is cliche and is the cause of thieve’s bad rep was an opinion which I clearly stated. And finally, I just said cheese. If you hadn’t notice, a majority of the people who complain against the profession eventually say call the whole profession cheese.

So, when did I ever twist your words? I can’t remember talking to you.
“All that awesome thief crap everyone complains about comes from d/d.”
So that sounds as if you think that the reason why people complain about thief is the weakest weapon combo thief has got. So, what did you mean by saying that?
And the rest of what I wrote still stands – your claim doesn’t make any sense.

Edit: Grammar, although it’s still off, I know – another bad english day.

RIP Beta weekend 2 spam meta.

I miss the Pistol Whip spamming haha. It was OP as kitten.

Good times.