Guild Wars 2

These new changes to thiefs traits in shadow arts are so kittened… these grandmasters are now in shadowarts:

1.blind nearby foes when you gain stealth.
2. regenerate health and gain initiative while in stealt.

I mean, who would pick the blind trait before the heal and initiative trait, i just think its so unbalanced, everybody will pick the same trait… Do you guys agree?

RIP d/d wvw teefz ;(

yes, thats what i mean, those traits combined made d/d possible… now you have to lose one of them, so bad

They killed d/d on pvp months ago by making reveal 4s and now they r killing it on wvw as well. Im sad :C

If that make to the exp, it’ll really kill D/D thief.

All hail the new condi S/D acro/trickery/deadly arts trap trickster teef.

We lose that blind, but automatically get 50% dmg reduction in stealth which could make up for it pretty easily.

Don’t worry guys, the revenant is coming.

(Waiting on thief notes from dulfy over on reddit.)

Is the blind on stealth really that important for D/D?
Don’t forget that you now have the 50% damage reduction in stealth as a minor trait in SA.

Turamarth.3248:

Is the blind on stealth really that important for D/D?
Don’t forget that you now have the 50% damage reduction in stealth as a minor trait in SA.

50% will be nerfed to 20% i guess. Yes its very important. Its like d/p without blinds and s/d without dodges.

Traps and poison should be interesting fun changes. Wonder if we can stack both poison and bleed effectively.

Turamarth.3248:

Is the blind on stealth really that important for D/D?
Don’t forget that you now have the 50% damage reduction in stealth as a minor trait in SA.

it is important, and it is a fun trait to use aswell

Last Refuge still exists :/

EDIT: Yet they removed Infusion

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Last Refuge still exists :/

EDIT: Yet they removed Infusion

HAHAHahahahah!

Slumps down in the corner sobbing and screams

Wait does this mean i will gain regen + initative + blind target or are you saying these are 2 different traits. ?

Taobella.6597:

Wait does this mean i will gain regen + initative + blind target or are you saying these are 2 different traits. ?

Health regen + initiative regen are included in the same trait now. Blind when entering stealth is a separate trait still, but also a grandmaster, so you can’t have the benefit of both traits.

WTH Opportunist and Hidden Assassin are gone too. >:(

wauw. acrobatics looks so delicious

both traits sound dumb to be honest. regen + initative it as a major at most
blind on stealth is again a major at most…. both are not worth grand master rather see anet fix thief dmg over there utility

For me every trait will be too much OP, I prefer to have healing on stealth completely removed

godofcows.2451:

wauw. acrobatics looks so delicious

I agree. This is the only trait line that actually have gotten a lot of improvements.

The other traits are so far disappointing.

EDIT: Swindlers’ + Don’t Stop = perma evade S/D >.<’

I disagree, I think Acro looks dead on arrival.

Odyssey.2613:

I disagree, I think Acro looks dead on arrival.

Can you explain how please?

Odyssey.2613:

I disagree, I think Acro looks dead on arrival.

I don’t know about DoA but the change on Hard to Catch is a big plus to what we have now — it’s actual a stun break — imagine that.

Guarded Initiation is practically a condition removal on Steal (with Mug).

The only one that bugs me is Feline Grace.

I dunno about you guys, but D/P Panic Strike looks so ridiculously strong on paper now. All the current benefits plus Stealth + Blind on Steal + more ini + Health regen. Guess D/P vs S/D will be even more one sided. kitten’s comedy

laquito.5269:

I dunno about you guys, but D/P Panic Strike looks so ridiculously strong on paper now. All the current benefits plus Stealth + Blind on Steal + more ini + Health regen. Guess D/P vs S/D will be even more one sided. kitten’s comedy

You forgot to add + executioner

Guarded Intention will only be good once, maybe twice in a fight.

I can envision Hard to catch being procced at the very start of the fight and not kicking in when you need that endurance.

Swindler’s doesn’t look that great. Yeah, so-so for sword but that’s where it ends.

Assassin’s and Quick Pockets is still meh.

Don’t Stop is kind of vague. Depends on what periodically means. I assume it amounts to 1 extra evade every 2-3 seconds for projectiles.

What we needed was some condi cleanse tied to dodging or evading, which we didn’t get.

laquito.5269:

I dunno about you guys, but D/P Panic Strike looks so ridiculously strong on paper now. All the current benefits plus Stealth + Blind on Steal + more ini + Health regen. Guess D/P vs S/D will be even more one sided. kitten’s comedy

The absence of Infusion leaves me skeptical.

Kolly.9872:

laquito.5269:

I dunno about you guys, but D/P Panic Strike looks so ridiculously strong on paper now. All the current benefits plus Stealth + Blind on Steal + more ini + Health regen. Guess D/P vs S/D will be even more one sided. kitten’s comedy

You forgot to add + executioner

As of now I’d say that improvisation is the better choice, but they wanted to change every stolen item and take away the damage portion, so it will probably be a straight out nerf, but we’ll see.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The absence of Infusion leaves me skeptical.

Nobody picks infusion of shadows over Shadows Embrace in PvP. It’s already lackluster and only a wvw player would pick it over SE. No offense, but I’m talking about PvP Meta here. :p

The change (nerf) to Feline grace is what bugs me the most. The whole acro tree revolves around damage mitigation through evades, so why are they taking away the strongest trait in the traitline, which kept the traitline alive. I’d rather see it switched with something like Guarded Intention or Pain response.

Critical strikes was too powerful, they said. They wanted to balance the other lines, they said. So they moved executioner to deadly arts, and moved panic strike down to master so you could pick up both in one line. Because that didn’t just make deadly arts more powerful... LOL. Although, executioner may become obsolete, with improvisation giving the 10% buff constantly, allowing us to use stolen skills twice, and recharging all of one category of skill with all skills being assigned a category. So I guess moving executioner was actually a damage nerf in anticipation of 6/6/x/x/x(/x).

Damage was also nerfed in acrobatics by the removal of fluid strikes. It’s nice to see the other changes to acrobatics though. While the removal of feline grace might technically be a nerf in terms of overall endurance regeneration, it punishes unintelligent dodging/dodge spammers, and promotes and rewards skillful play which is always a good thing. Swindler’s Equilibrium looks amazing. It could let D/P thieves utilize bountiful theft more often so they can steal more boons, and allow S/D thieves to utilize sleight of hand more so they can interrupt more often (specifically mentioning S/D because they don’t have headshot). I noticed the new stability on attacking from stealth trait got completely removed lol.

Basically our buff is Swindler’s Equilibrium and being able to take acrobatics and trickery both with deadly arts. No major trait/class specific buffs. At least there were minimal nerfs.

Impact.2780:

Swindler’s Equilibrium looks amazing. It could let D/P thieves utilize bountiful theft more often so they can steal more boons, and allow S/D thieves to utilize sleight of hand more so they can interrupt more often (specifically mentioning S/D because they don’t have headshot).

Reread Swindler’s again.

Odyssey.2613:

Guarded Intention will only be good once, maybe twice in a fight.

Maybe.

I can envision Hard to catch being procced at the very start of the fight and not kicking in when you need that endurance.

Proc-ing HtC means it just prevented a disable — how is that a bad thing?

Swindler’s doesn’t look that great. Yeah, so-so for sword but that’s where it ends.

Just like Dagger Training is for daggers and Ricochets are for pistols. We never had a trait that benefits Sword wielder before.

Don’t Stop is kind of vague. Depends on what periodically means. I assume it amounts to 1 extra evade every 2-3 seconds for projectiles.

“Periodically” is used due to the internal cooldown of 5s.

What we needed was some condi cleanse tied to dodging or evading, which we didn’t get.

Of course not. That good of a trait is reserved for Warriors.

Odyssey.2613:

Guarded Intention will only be good once, maybe twice in a fight.

I can envision Hard to catch being procced at the very start of the fight and not kicking in when you need that endurance.

Swindler’s doesn’t look that great. Yeah, so-so for sword but that’s where it ends.

Assassin’s and Quick Pockets is still meh.

Don’t Stop is kind of vague. Depends on what periodically means. I assume it amounts to 1 extra evade every 2-3 seconds for projectiles.

What we needed was some condi cleanse tied to dodging or evading, which we didn’t get.

I get what you’re saying then, I don’t know about dead on arrival, but I might say that because it looks better for my build. So, I agree it’s kind of slim with some traits still likely to collect dust and it’s going to be a weapon specific trait line I think. I use a sword and I can see myself still traiting for Steal and along with Slight of Hand, that new Swindlers could help me proc Serpents Touch, Mug, Thrill of the Crime, and Bountiful Theft after a couple of dodges at least in WvW. It doesn’t seem like a lot of choice there apart from one build taking into account the synergy with with other trait lines and how much a few swift actions can pump out for yourself and your team.

Are these the final version?
Or will they be tweaking them some more?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Odyssey.2613:

Guarded Intention will only be good once, maybe twice in a fight.

Maybe.

I can envision Hard to catch being procced at the very start of the fight and not kicking in when you need that endurance.

Proc-ing HtC means it just prevented a disable — how is that a bad thing?

Swindler’s doesn’t look that great. Yeah, so-so for sword but that’s where it ends.

Just like Dagger Training is for daggers and Ricochets are for pistols. We never had a trait that benefits Sword wielder before.

Don’t Stop is kind of vague. Depends on what periodically means. I assume it amounts to 1 extra evade every 2-3 seconds for projectiles.

“Periodically” is used due to the internal cooldown of 5s.

What we needed was some condi cleanse tied to dodging or evading, which we didn’t get.

Of course not. That good of a trait is reserved for Warriors.

I think that when they hinted about a trait that will remove a condition on dodge, it was for thief specialization, but who knows, only time will tell us.

I view having 2 fresh evades after burning 2 evades more beneficial than a random stun break. Matter of opinion I guess.

Critical Haste was the swordsman’s trait.

Our specialization will have to do with traps, no doubt.

Odyssey.2613:

Impact.2780:

Swindler’s Equilibrium looks amazing. It could let D/P thieves utilize bountiful theft more often so they can steal more boons, and allow S/D thieves to utilize sleight of hand more so they can interrupt more often (specifically mentioning S/D because they don’t have headshot).

Reread Swindler’s again.

Oh yeah, S/* only =P. I prefer S/D anyway so my brain remembered it for its positives not the negative.

I honestly like the changes, there are many builds that look strong for pvp and w vs w now that stats wont be tied to traits.

I think that DA+SA+Trickery or even SA+ Acro + trickery for a more survival build will be very good and may be DA + CS + X for a very bursty character.

DA + Acro + trickery also sounds good. There are more builds that seems good than what we have now.

Probably in PVE it will be DA + CS + trickery

laquito.5269:

I dunno about you guys, but D/P Panic Strike looks so ridiculously strong on paper now. All the current benefits plus Stealth + Blind on Steal + more ini + Health regen. Guess D/P vs S/D will be even more one sided. kitten’s comedy

Why?

6 0 0 6 6 sounds pretty strong to me basically you get panic strike + exe in exchange for less dodges.

Also more damage in general since u dont miss out on the stats from current DA + CS lines

Loving the changes in general cant wait, lots of stuff to experiment with. If they would ship thief exactly like they showed here i’d be very happy.

Odyssey.2613:

I view having 2 fresh evades after burning 2 evades more beneficial than a random stun break. Matter of opinion I guess.

I’m simply comparing the old to the new.

Critical Haste was the swordsman’s trait.

But it’s not specific. You can virtually say, “<put a trait here> was the swordsman’s trait” for any trait.

Our specialization will have to do with traps, no doubt.

If that is the case, then our new weapon will be a rifle.

Did I mention Flanking Strikes looks Gawd Awful!? lol It’s gonna be the cousin of Last Refuge.

Also P/P malice+IP+Ricochet is now dead. RIP. Was fun while it lasted.

Highlie.7641:

Are these the final version?
Or will they be tweaking them some more?

I certainly hope they aren’t. The changes provided so far completely kills the D/D weapon set and it looks like they’ve made Critical Strikes rather inferior to Deadly Arts for anyone not using pistols…

I was optimistic when they first announced trait line changes would be made… Now I’m starting to worry again .

Odyssey.2613:

Did I mention Flanking Strikes looks Gawd Awful!? lol

Wea ll agree on that. :/

It’s gonna be the cousin of Last Refuge.

I’d prefer Infusion to replace LR.

Also P/P malice+IP+Ricochet is now dead. RIP. Was fun while it lasted.

And rise P/P malice+AR+Ricochet.

my current pistol build has ricochet and invigorating precision. those are now both GMs in the same line, meaning that my build no longer functions as i planned it.

Starsurfer.7209:

Highlie.7641:

Are these the final version?
Or will they be tweaking them some more?

I certainly hope they aren’t. The changes provided so far completely kills the D/D weapon set and it looks like they’ve made Critical Strikes rather inferior to Deadly Arts for anyone not using pistols…

I was optimistic when they first announced trait line changes would be made… Now I’m starting to worry again .

Master of Deception got merged with the absolute trash trait Concealed Defeat lol. CD is one that should have been deleted.

I definitely hate these changes. Just hate them. The early Acrobatics stuff is so essential to how I play,l but absolutely none of the higher Acro traits seem at all useful or interesting. Given the option, I would only put a few points into the tree and spread into a 4th, but of course they’ve taken that option away, because reasons.

Odyssey.2613:

Starsurfer.7209:

Highlie.7641:

Are these the final version?
Or will they be tweaking them some more?

I certainly hope they aren’t. The changes provided so far completely kills the D/D weapon set and it looks like they’ve made Critical Strikes rather inferior to Deadly Arts for anyone not using pistols…

I was optimistic when they first announced trait line changes would be made… Now I’m starting to worry again .

Master of Deception got merged with the absolute trash trait Concealed Defeat lol. CD is one that should have been deleted.

I couldn’t agree with you more. Frankly, with few exceptions, all of those defeatist traits should not exist, since they essentially count on you being downed. Concealed Defeat was particularly useless. To have Infusion of Shadow removed and keep Concealed Defeat (even though it is now at least slightly more appealing due to the Cooldown reduction to deception skills) is lunacy in and of itself.

But the thing that bothers me even more is how Cloaked in Shadow has been moved to the GM position. What on earth were they thinking? That is in no way shape or form a trait worthy of a Grandmaster slot and D/D’s effectiveness literally hinges on being able to take both Cloaked in Shadow and Shadow Rejuvenation. Putting them both in GM is a MASSIVE nerf to a set that was already lacking love outside of WvW…

It’s a good thing that they made it clear that these are not the final builds. Anyone know if they’re is a specific thread to voice opinions about the changes? Because if they honestly think that D/D thieves are going to be okay with the current changes (especially since the one thing thieves have been begging to have removed for over a year, Last Refuge, is STILL there), they’re sorely mistaken.

Oh I forgot something I meant to include in my earlier post regarding opportunist and infusion of shadow’s dissapearance. It was briefly mentioned on the stream that the removal of those traits meant they could tweak the baseline initiative regeneration slightly. Whether they will or not, and if so by how much remains to be seen, but they have at least entertained the possibility of compensation for their removal, which is huge for thief. The devs merely considering compensation for this class is practically a buff in itself.

Impact.2780:

Oh I forgot something I meant to include in my earlier post regarding opportunist and infusion of shadow’s dissapearance. It was briefly mentioned on the stream that the removal of those traits meant they could tweak the baseline initiative regeneration slightly. Whether they will or not, and if so by how much remains to be seen, but they have at least entertained the possibility of compensation for their removal, which is huge for thief. The devs merely considering compensation for this class is practically a buff in itself.

Well that’s a pleasant thought. A nerf for thieves coupled with at least the mention of compensation? That’s almost like finding a unicorn. Well if they actually do tweak the regen rate to adequately make up for the removal of those traits (you hear that Anet? Adequate, i.e. a fair exchange for what was lost. Not like your lower DPS for Venom cooldown nerfs…), then I suppose they can be forgiven for that.

There’s still that load of kittenry that is the SA trait changes, but that’s another battle…

Impact.2780:

Oh I forgot something I meant to include in my earlier post regarding opportunist and infusion of shadow’s dissapearance. It was briefly mentioned on the stream that the removal of those traits meant they could tweak the baseline initiative regeneration slightly. Whether they will or not, and if so by how much remains to be seen, but they have at least entertained the possibility of compensation for their removal, which is huge for thief. The devs merely considering compensation for this class is practically a buff in itself.

It’s BS unless I see in game and it’s better not be the changes to Rejuv.