Guild Wars 2

p/p got nicer buffs but still lack so much to be viable

so few small changes:

the game full of reflects which put the p/p set to no use at all. thus we need some unblockable/reflect abilities mainly to AA as with unload it can be too OP

evade – this is the only weapon set with no evade so unload need to be with evade ability

so instead of might stacks we need to lower the number of attack to 6 and lower the cost of initiative by 1 and put second active attack with evade for the cost of the 2 initiative and the evade should be backward to 600 range for 3 sec duration
it wont be spammable as it cost too much initiative

body shot is useless immobilize so maybe put blind on it for 4 sec

range – for the main hand i will put 1200 range . off hand should stay 900 range

ricochet – put it on unload only instead of the might

Hello,

I disagree.

Before to ask for a change of the game rules I think we should learn/discuss the way to play with what we have. That’s part of the challenge.

As I have wrotten in another topic, I play P/P for some monthes now.
If it can help you my advice is that its Gameplay is different from traditionnal thieves. If you want to have fun with it you need to think a little bit different, far from “meta build”.

Do not hesitate to try untypical things for the majority of thieves (As a sample without the everlasting shortbow).

With some practice you’ll exceed the “unload spam” cliche. The trap of the build is spam temptation. Succumb to that temptation and you’ll die (reflects, lack of initiative at an important point of the fight, etc.), with no chance of progress.

P / P is very well endowed with CC effects and placing an F2 (edit: “body shot”) or an F4 (edit: “head shot”) at the right time can change a fight. A first part of the P/P player path is to learn to use them correctly.

A second step on the way of the P/P player (once he understands that the build will not allow him to “oneshoot” an other player), is to focus its attention in the field use, the management of distance, the target selection and proper use of dodging or stealth skills according to his chosen model of survivability. P/P is interesting to play a skirmisher or a finisher role, not an assassin one.

Depending of your build and equipment, the survivability is good even by harassing the enemy during a zerg fight in McM (edit: WvW).

P/P, to be efficient, needs a gameplay of observation and anticipation more than action.

That’s why I consider the increased of “unload” and of the basic Attack introduced with the last update as very interesting because it allows to take a lot of defensive traits without sacrificing too much of dps or the autonomy of the character (which does not need to be glued to a boon provider and can play its skirmisher role).

Because it allows me to continue to develop these aspects of P/P gameplay I am very satisfied with the last Update.

Anvil.9230:

Hello,

I disagree. Before to ask for a change of the game rules I think we should learn/discuss the way to play with what we have. That’s part of the challenge.

As I have wrotten in another topic, I play P/P for some monthes now.
If it can help you my advice is that its Gameplay is different from traditionnal thieves. If you want to have fun with it you need to think a little bit different, far from “meta build”.

Do not hesitate to try untypical things for the majority of thieves.

With some practice you’ll exceed the “unload spam” cliche. The trap of the build is spam temptation. Succumb to that temptation and you’ll die, with no chance of progress.

P / P is very well endowed with CC effects and placing an F2 or an F4 at the right time can change a fight. A first part of the P/P player path is to learn to use them correctly.

A second path on way of the P/P player (once he understands that the build will not allow him to “oneshoot” an other player), is to focus its attention in the field use, the management of distance, the target selection and proper use of dodging or stealth skills according to his chosen model of survivability.

Depending of your build and equipment, the survivability is good even by harassing the enemy during a zerg fight in McM.

P/P, to be efficient, is a gameplay of observation and anticipation more than action.

That’s why I consider the increased of “discharge” and of the basic Attack introduced with the last update as very interesting because it allows to take a lot of defensive traits without sacrificing too much of dps or the autonomy of the character (which does not need to be glued to a boon provider and can play its skirmisher role).

Because it allows me to continue to develop these aspects of P/P gameplay I am very satisfied with the last Update.

and now lets go to pvp where you cant go 1v1 , cant hold point, your attacked being reflect so no guard, no ele, no mesmer, no engi,

and i didnt know we have f4.. what am i missing?

My mistake perhaps: I called F2 and F4 “body shot” and “head shot”.

To be honest with you I do not play a lot of small PvP arena match. I prefer WvW and PvE.

But it appears clear to me that the weapon set is not adapted to defend a point.
Like a traditionnal thief I think…according to my small experience in that part of Gw2, his role is to capture points and quickely assist another player, not to defend or to glue itself in a long fight.

To manage players with reflects skills you first need to avoid spamming “unload” at all cost.
You need to observe your opponent to know when its reflects skills are “in cooldown”. Do not also forget that majority of walls can be bypassed using your speed superiority, teleportation skills or your stealth skills.
In a certain amont of situation, you can also try a basilik Venom (unblockable interrupt) Attack.

Anvil.9230:

My mistake perhaps: I called F2 and F4 “body shot” and “head shot”.

To be honest with you I do not play a lot of small PvP arena match. I prefer WvW and PvE.

But it appears clear to me that the weapon set is not adapted to defend a point.
Like a traditionnal thief I think…according to my small experience in that part of Gw2, his role is to capture points and quickely assist another player, not to defend or to glue itself in a long fight.

To manage players with reflects skills you first need to avoid spamming “unload” at all cost.
You need to observe your opponent to know when its reflects skills are “in cooldown”. Do not also forget that majority of walls can be bypassed using your speed superiority, teleportation skills or your stealth skills.
In a certain amont of situation, you can also try a basilik Venom (unblockable interrupt) Attack.

which put you in a BIG problem as if you cant pressure as a thief you are being pressure and have to disengage losing some dps and time

It depends of the situation. As a P/P daredevil I feel more confortable in a skirmisher role harassing the ennemy, than in an assassin role. According to me the weapon set is more usefull played in that perspective.

In spite of that it’s totally possible to win 1/1 engagement.

As an exemple Yesterday, i think the DH who were hunting around our keep in WvW was a little bit under pressure as I was Killing him in spite of his bow and reflect skills.

i have just temporized when it was usefull to do that, playing more with the decor than him…And himself didn’t see the moment he should have disengage.

After all time management during a fight is a part of the game.

if you running p/p you basically running gimmick if you going to go gimmick you gotta go full gimmick take as much haste as possible win a fight in 2 seconds then run for your life.

Not at all. There are plenty of different ways to play p/p. Super burst is only one.

Difficult set to balance. Can’t really touch pistol 4 and 5 as that would just be a buff for D/P which really doesn’t need it and buffs to pistol 1 and 2 would be buffs for P/D that also probably doesn’t need it.

I like your suggestions for Unload though. The Might stacking is rather silly, but ricochet would be a fun thing to have back if even for just one skill. I propose for giggles that Ankle Shots should just be replaced with a trait similar to Master of Fragmentation on Mesmer whereby all of the pistol skills whilst wielding dual pistols are modified:

Vital Shot – range increased to 1200
Body Shot – immobilise duration increased by 50%
Unload – 50% chance to bounce to a nearby foe
Headshot – AoE Daze on target (5 targets, 180 radius like Mantra of Distraction – mass res interrupt)
Black Powder – blocks projectiles or pulse protection or anything when you or allies are standing in it.

Could make Body Shot and Head Shot apply an effect called “Assassin’s Mark” and then Unload gets a bonus effect against a marked target. Then throw the old ricochet trait unto Unload against marked targets.

Or…
Body shot applies a mark that causes successive projectile attacks to apply vulnerability.
Head shot applies a mark that causes successive projectile attacks to apply confusion.

I don’t know. Just thinking of stuff that would benefit p/p without messing with d/p and p/d.

i see why ppl afraid of buffing d/p but p/d is still weak in pvp. wvw for roaming can be good but still not that strong

so buffing the main hand pistol should not be a problem at all.

again if you check every #3 skills is an evade while with p/p there is none.
skills #2 is too weak to spend ini on it. immobilize for 1 sec while almost evey class got some immunity or reduction so what’s the point.
also pistol is easy reflect or block by any class with also short cd. so we need some evade and unreflect/block trait with some 15 sec icd
also some ricochet need some comeback

so put ricochet only on #3 instead of might stacks could be easily done
evade on #3 also is must to make p/p set somehow playable in high tier environment

P/P needs an AoE attack, a stealth component or a mobility component. Lacking any of those it will be a relatively niche weapon set. The thief is squishy in most builds so no survival or group pressure makes it a luxury weapon set that few can afford to run.

Compare it to the best weapon set D/P which has a stealth component, cleaves, an unblockable gap closer, mobility, strong AA and a big hitter. S/P has evasion, condi removal, cleave, solid AA, stun, massive DPS burst and a gap closer.

pistols need pierce, 1200 range, #2 drop 1 ini. even then it still wouldnt be better then d/p. thief is doomed to be in d/p meta forever.

Body Shot needs work. Things that could make it better (a list to pick from, not suggesting applying everything):

-Increasing the stacks and duration of the vuln
-Replacing the immob with a longer (1.5-2s) slow
-Boon strip
-Lower ini cost
-Blast finisher
-Low HP effects like Heartseeker (i.e. inflicts pulmonary impact when target’s HP is less than 20%)