Guild Wars 2

I’m writing this post in good spirit, hoping only to gain some information out of it,nothing else.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-the-Pistol-wasn-t-buffed

This is a thread post that is one year old. That’s right,one year. We were promised by a Game Designer Karl McLain after a huge outcry by the thief community because of the shady removal of the Ricochet trait, and even more questionable reasoning why they did it, that the (still!) sorely needed changes to p/p set are on their way. However, after a year has passed, no information about it was posted how the changes progress, or if they are even still in the works. I follow the official forums pretty regularly, and since the posts here are mainly about sPvP, i know PvP players can’t be less interested in a p/p set. But i,as a hardcore PvE player that would like to experience the pure fun and awesomeness that was Ricochet again, truly hope we were not being misled, and that these changes are still on the way.

Ricochet or making pistols pierce would be great.

freeman.7315:

the shady removal of the Ricochet trait

Keep telling yourself that.

Ghotistyx.6942:

freeman.7315:

the shady removal of the Ricochet trait

Keep telling yourself that.

Removing one of the grandmaster traits that was in the live stream preview for the thief just before HoT was released without any explanation before the community demanded it i call shady, at the very least. The answers Anet officialy gave us weeks after were just plain ridiculous as well.

the single target damage went through the roof as compensation for ricochet,
also now that we have Bounding Dodger we have immediate access to stealth from BP.

i was playing p/p long before the patch, and i’ve remained playing it ever since,
long live the p/p thieves!

melting other thief how good are you ?

freeman.7315:

We were promised by a Game Designer Karl McLain

Well there’s your problem.

If it’s not Guardian, it’s not getting fixed.

I agree that ricochet needs to be added again. i too felt it was shady. Before HoT was introduced my main was a Thief. Removing ricochet tore my build to shreds , removing Hastend replenishment really crippled my build , but it was still workable as long as they kept in Ricochet it was still workable for HoT. Then out of no where , and for no good reason they removed ricochet. I didn’t need a damage incress for pistols , the range boost was nice but still not needed, what i did NEED from ricochet was the bounce. That one move made thief as a whole unpalatable to me. Making it for me unplayable. i have no interest in being a hack and slash thief ninja type, i miss my gunslinger/mercenary type thief. So i stopped playing it and it eventually forced me to decide if i wanted to quit GW2 all together or find a new main character, in the end i too temporarily play necro as my main, but after a year+ of waiting for ANet to fix this problem i am left still waiting for them to stand true to there promises of bringing back ricochet. and let me remind ANet the character of a man ( or company) is not determined by what they say, but how they act, and man’s word is his bond. I have seen others leave over this one change, if you care to ever get them back then make good on bringing back ricochet. The only reason i have not yet deleted my once main character( my thief) is because i still hold out hope that ANet can still prove themeselves honorable as a company again, by there actions by bringing back riochet. ANet you are quick to say you listen to your community, but your actions speak for themselves, what are we to gleen from your actions to date after over a year of ignoring the thief community on this and your failure of bringing back Ricochet. By saying something is in the expansion then moments before release you remove it after a vast majority has pre ordered the expansion has a name, its called bait and switch and it is illegal. Sure you can qoute the ToS back at us, but it does not change how it was conducted from being shady and dishonest.

I still hold out hope maybe, just maybe thief might get ricochet back be it in a fix and they just re-add it or even if it is added with the next thief elite specialization. Like make thief’s new elite specialization get rifle, and add in ricochet that way as a trait that applies to all bullets(as before, and not just ones from rifle, pistol also.) And i hope it is back soon because it is ironic that it is thief that has been the one that has been back stabbed by this.

dunno how strong it is in pvp , but in WvW anyone that run out of reflects will melt in seconds to p/p dmg. that why i run it for a few month now on my 2nd set instead of shortbow – as i dont need to run away and i dont like to fight with shortbow. also added nice effect: kill ppl with p/p and they are sure to come back to you
i think p/p is at least in wvw fine now, with ricochet it would need some nerfs there , tho devs dont really care about WvW roaming balance anyway.

naturesoul.3578:

ANet you are quick to say you listen to your community, but your actions speak for themselves, what are we to gleen from your actions to date after over a year of ignoring the thief community on this and your failure of bringing back Ricochet. By saying something is in the expansion then moments before release you remove it after a vast majority has pre ordered the expansion has a name, its called bait and switch and it is illegal. Sure you can qoute the ToS back at us, but it does not change how it was conducted from being shady and dishonest.

wew lad

The number of single target only weapons in this game… Thief P/P… uhmm… uhmm… there probably is one or two more but I cannot think of any.

P/P is a fine weapon until more than one person shows up or it goes against a player with pets that knows to stand behind them. Removing Ricochet gutted the fun factor of P/P.

Thieves finally getting a 1200 ranged weapon would be nice but this is mostly a pve issue than a pvp issue. A trait in the crit strikes lineup that boosts pistol damage by 5% and increase range to 1200 would be sweet in pve. Ricochet was removed because it was buggy and it made shortbow trivial for AoE ranged damage.

Doctor.1905:

Ricochet was removed because it was buggy and it made shortbow trivial for AoE ranged damage.

I don’t know where Ricochet being buggy is coming from. After its removal, the devs made a vague statement about the bounce RNG being factor and about the “purity” of the weapon set but it worked fine.

As for shortbow being trivial damage… it still is. Besides what does one weapon that is mobility based (teleports, evades) have to do with another that is damage based? Weapon sets should be balanced on their own merits and P/P has never been OP particularly because it has zero mobility (the only thief weaponset with that limitation) and requires traits to access stealth.

Straegen.2938:

I don’t know where Ricochet being buggy is coming from. After its removal, the devs made a vague statement about the bounce RNG being factor and about the “purity” of the weapon set but it worked fine.

Vital Shot: Worked as intended (wai)
Sneak Attack: Wai
Body Shot: No interaction
Unload: Wai
Shadow Shot (D/P):Teleport+Russian Roulette
Shadow Strike (P/D): No interaction
Headshot: How many people do you interrupt? 1? 4? who knows
Black Powder: 1 smoke field, but random people blinded

Ricochet was all over the place, both in interaction and damage (how do you balance for 0 vs 3 bounces?). Unload and Sneak Attack made sense as they averaged out pretty well, but Headshot could interrupt any amount of people while Body Shot just plain didn’t work. And then there was Shadow Shot where Jesus had to take the wheel.

Purity of Purpose was simple. Pistol would be single target so that SB could take over for multi-target. Ricochet was fun, don’t get me wrong, but its not needed.

i would be very surprised if they told us anything. i think they gave up and whatever ideas they had will be used for something else at best.

they should’ve just changed ricochet to pierce
shadow shot work it to tele to first person hit
headshot doesn’t pierce
how hard is it

Ghotistyx.6942:

Body Shot: No interaction
Shadow Shot (D/P):Teleport+Russian Roulette
Shadow Strike (P/D): No interaction
Headshot: How many people do you interrupt? 1? 4? who knows
Black Powder: 1 smoke field, but random people blinded

Body Shot: Fixed when they overhauled it in 2014
Shadow Shot: Working as described even though it was “odd”
Shadow Strike: Melee attack but could see that the shot should bounce
Headshot: As many as it hits
Black Powder: Never heard about this bug

Most of these are at best quirks and did not significantly impact the trait. Any of them are relatively easy fixes most likely. Besides no other class that I can think of has an entire weapon set with a single target limit. Almost every offensive skill in the game can hit up to 3 or more players now.

The removal of that trait killed most P/P builds. Those builds lost range and the ability to pressure multiple targets. We have systematically watched nearly every weapon set on the thief get gutted. I am just baffled why some think Ricochet wasn’t worth having as an option. It sure is a hell of a lot better than Ankle Shots.

yeah replace ankle shot with the old ricochet please, ankle shot is worthless, i still use p/p build and still don’t see the need for ankle shot.

The way I see it, if ricochet were to come back it would need to be in critical strikes or in a new elite spec centred around rifle and guns. Maybe a trait that swaps the might stacking on unload for pierce, or adds bounce chance at 33% of your crit chance or something like that. I think if we get bouncy bullets it should be dependant on crit, as trailblazer P/D thief is frankly strong enough as is.

i rly hope they buff pistol pistol. Now, staff is dead and i dont like dp, pp is only option. Ricochet on autos would be great.

edit. there is valid argument for giving autos ricochet. PP with shortbow lacks aoe to prevent rez. Ricochet will help a little bit. Ricochet will not break the game. Its just a minimal aoe.

P/P is ranged pressure. I liked the option of ricochet back when it was around, but now I’m not sure I would take it. I like single target focus and with projectile hate I like to know where my shots are flying.

I wouldn’t baseline it is what I’m saying.

saerni.2584:

P/P is ranged pressure. I liked the option of ricochet back when it was around, but now I’m not sure I would take it. I like single target focus and with projectile hate I like to know where my shots are flying.

I wouldn’t baseline it is what I’m saying.

Ricochet was never a must have and it didn’t OP the build. What it did do is give thieves a hard counter to clone spam Mesmers, multi-target pressure and prevented Rangers from hiding behind their pet.

P/P now is a niche weapon set that is hardly run. I see it most with condi builds and typically those that try to run it end up dropping it a few hours later after they get parked by D/P a few times. Single target, no mobility, no easy access to stealth, weak AA, low DPS in a multi-target situation and no evasive capability.

Tp P/P power in particular.

I will not speak to PvP but P/P is hardly niche in WvW (or Pve). As a single target source of damage it hard to beat. The mistake too many make is staying to long in p/p and not taking advantage of the Might provided .

To maximize its potential you need to extend boon duration and add in another source of might . Dumplings are ideal for this. What this does is allow that ranged spike while stacking might all while using less overall INI. You then switch off to your other weaponset and take advantage of the better AA on the same or the lower INI cost skills. You can also supplement this with bound damage while that might stacked.

This also works great with things like Fist Flurry in utilities or Impact strike.

Sigil of intelligence off the other weapon set coupled with Daredevil runes allows 6K + bounds with relative ease and Shadowshots of 7k without having to resort to all zerker gear.

I like to spike damage with Unload so that might stacked, swap over to the off hand set, steal or shadowshot in then followup with a Impact strike chain . The sigil of intell ensures three in a row crits at max might and alows for a followup dodge and HS combo for more crits.

P/P is very much like our SB. If you use it as a standalone weaponset it can undeperform. if used to supplement another set it very much better and makes that other weaponset better.

babazhook.6805:

I will not speak to PvP but P/P is hardly niche in WvW (or Pve). As a single target source of damage it hard to beat. The mistake too many make is staying to long in p/p and not taking advantage of the Might provided .

I am going to assume you play a lot of WvW like myself. When was the last time a power P/P thief tore you apart? My guess is outside of getting caught outnumbered, it hasn’t.

It is a fine weapon set in the safety of numbers. Its got one move and it is ridiculously easy to avoid most of that damage. Get it in an outnumbered situation or against D/P and the weapon set is a straight up liability. Most other classes find it weak as well (Ranger/Mesmer hide behind pets/clones, Warrior/Engi/Ele reflect, Necro… well they get kited by every thief build). Spam Unload 2-3 times and switch to another weapon for escape. Even skill cannot elevate it.

The condi variant (which I run) is solid when played well but the D/P variant of my build is arguably stronger.

I believe Karl abandoned us sadly. I just don’t get why they don’t allow pistol 1,2,3 to pierce. Would be a great QoL improvement for pve when melee just inst an option.

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

I will not speak to PvP but P/P is hardly niche in WvW (or Pve). As a single target source of damage it hard to beat. The mistake too many make is staying to long in p/p and not taking advantage of the Might provided .

I am going to assume you play a lot of WvW like myself. When was the last time a power P/P thief tore you apart? My guess is outside of getting caught outnumbered, it hasn’t.

It is a fine weapon set in the safety of numbers. Its got one move and it is ridiculously easy to avoid most of that damage. Get it in an outnumbered situation or against D/P and the weapon set is a straight up liability. Most other classes find it weak as well (Ranger/Mesmer hide behind pets/clones, Warrior/Engi/Ele reflect, Necro… well they get kited by every thief build). Spam Unload 2-3 times and switch to another weapon for escape. Even skill cannot elevate it.

The condi variant (which I run) is solid when played well but the D/P variant of my build is arguably stronger.

Your experience with the weaponset is not my own.

Bah make pistol 2(Body shot) only use 2 ini and pistol is fine.