Guild Wars 2

title says it all, replace #2 body shot (pistol) with a 1200 range attack that pierces targets and/or cripples. this will partially resolve the whole “give us a rifle” issue

shortbow has 1200 range #2 cluster bomb, could put something similar for bodyshot

makes sense to me so i thought id make a post,

im sure someone has probably had this idea before.

savage.3469:

title says it all, replace #2 body shot (pistol) with a 1200 range attack that does aoe damage. this will partially resolve the whole “give us a rifle” issue

shortbow has 1200 range #2 cluster bomb, could put something similar for bodyshot

makes sense to me so i thought id make a post,

im sure someone has probably had this idea before.

How would giving a mid raneg set a 1200 range skill solve the issue of not having a full 1200 weapon set?

Also there’s not such an issue as “give us a rifle” it’s more like, give us a max ranged new set. Thieves need a new ranged meta and another weapon set (since we are the class with less weapon choices and less skill sets.

i main a thief, i dont see a problem with 900 range, but then again i dont do much wvw anymore.

we have cluster bomb for sbow, i thought we could use a 1200 range attack for pistols too. 1200 base range on thiefs seems like itll cause qq, unless they nerf ranged damage somehow.

savage.3469:

i main a thief, i dont see a problem with 900 range, but then again i dont do much wvw anymore.

we have cluster bomb for sbow, i thought we could use a 1200 range attack for pistols too. 1200 base range on thiefs seems like itll cause qq, unless they nerf ranged damage somehow.

I have arround 580 hours with my thief and over 3000 WvW kills, and spamming cluster bomb in a keep defense is the most boring mechanich posible. Pve is fine with 900 since Pve is rather easy besides some dungeons.

500 hours, and 2500 kills for me, but i have played 900 games for spvp

i dont do pve or wvw(pvpve) lol, i do spvp. i usually go s/d tank in wvw, and jump in and daggerstorm and run away or dancing dagger noobs/stealth stomp.

if long range battles are what you seek, thief isnt the proffesion to choose.

savage.3469:

i dont do pve or wvw(pvpve) lol, i do spvp.

There we go.

Also i don’t seek long range battles, i love my thief but we need a 1200 range for reasons that have already been explained.

Also why are you so against the rifles it’s not that they would give something bad to the class.

Shortbow already provide very good ranged AoE damage, why would you want to push MH Pistol towards the same role? If at all make it an 1200 range single target ability.

i think they should replace bodyshot’s vulnerability to a cripple and make it 1200 range. Also instead of aoe, pistols should pierce through targets.

They should make it fire or poison.

I would go a little different direction with Bodyshot… Although, 1200 range is a admittedly a serious need.

A lot of why P/P is so terrible as a weapon set is it has:

No stealth
No mobility
No cripple

P/D has Body shot also, but it has all three of those things and is much better because of it. The only thing P/P has that is good is a smoke combo field, but can hardly utilize it.

So, I actually think the most important thing in revamping Bodyshot is giving it a useful combo finisher, of which the best candidates would be Leap or Blast, in order to give P/P access to stealth through smoke combo fields.

Option #1:
Proof Round – fire an extremely loud overcharged shot. Point blank AoE confusion debuff. Blast finisher (point blank.) 1200 range.

(I call it “proof round” because a proof round is a cartridge loaded to extreme pressures beyond normal spec in order to test newly manufactured firearms.)

This would give Pistol MH limited access to 1200 range as well as fix P/P as a set by giving it more survivability and group utility with group stealth via combo with Black Powder as well as some confusion condition at melee range.

Option #2:
Survival Instinct – perform an evasive leap while firing a crippling shot. Single target cripple. Leap finisher. 900 range. Dodge/evade while leaping (in direction of running.)

This would go a long way to at least fixing P/P by giving it some mobility, a cripple, and stealth access via combo with Black Powder. If A-net is dead set on keep range at 900, it does that too. The downside is it’s a bit redundant with other skills in P/D set with Dancing Dagger having cripple and Shadow Strike having mobility, although the evade and leap finisher is new.

^
- no stealth (i guarantee you p/p doesnt need it)
-no mobility (try this build http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckMMc9cmlbxmmlbxmxx0a0oRqzkqc)
-like i said change body shot to cripple

the build above works really well, lots of mobility making stealth unnecessary.
shadowstep gives you options to be aggressive and defensive. with the build above i’ve manage to use all the skills in the p/p set except for bodyshot.

Unload could be faster though, but i feel like the damage is just enough. Piercing effect would make it awesome but not overpowered. What i like to do is use unload then wait for enemies reaction, and when i feel like its the right time i active venom mid unload.

I know how headshot cost a lot of initiative and it forces you to use either one skill or the other, but on my experience there were moments when once ive downed enemies to 50% headshot + autoattack can finish them off easily (ofcourse timing headshot when they’re healing).

Wilhelmryan.9203:

^
- no stealth (i guarantee you p/p doesnt need it)
-no mobility (try this build http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckMMc9cmlbxmmlbxmxx0a0oRqzkqc)
-like i said change body shot to cripple

the build above works really well, lots of mobility making stealth unnecessary.
shadowstep gives you options to be aggressive and defensive. with the build above i’ve manage to use all the skills in the p/p set except for bodyshot.

Unload could be faster though, but i feel like the damage is just enough. Piercing effect would make it awesome but not overpowered. What i like to do is use unload then wait for enemies reaction, and when i feel like its the right time i active venom mid unload.

I know how headshot cost a lot of initiative and it forces you to use either one skill or the other, but on my experience there were moments when once ive downed enemies to 50% headshot + autoattack can finish them off easily (ofcourse timing headshot when they’re healing).

I can make a P/P build work too, in various ways. The problem is that I can always make a P/D build that’s better in virtually every way so long as the player is skilled enough to not play like a turret. And the comparison tends to get even worse when you open it up to other classes and their potential ranged builds.

It just doesn’t make much sense for a class that is designed to be competitive through tricks and wrinkles to have a “stand and shoot” style weapon set that is flat out underpowered and under-ranged compared to other classes. It either needs a deeper toolbox or a bigger hammer.

i edited the aoe, and changed it to piercing/crippling

what i ment to type initially, was multiple target damage.

anyway i was just throwing an idea out there.

lol webley, i agree. Im sure they made thieves have 900 range for a reason.

1200 range for a thief is fine with me. Make my Ranger’s short bow 1600 and my long bow 2200 and we can talk.

You get the up close and personal win skill, that’s your bread and butter.

@sons

if they bumped our range up to 1200, we would be way too op, we do massive damage as it is in group fights, with the shortbow.

at 900 range, we have so much utility to move into range and out of range of the enemy

If we had 1200 range, they would never escape us (1200 range immobilize from stealth), and we would be way too op in team fights.

think about it

I’d say #2 on P/P needs to be a blast finisher imo. Area stealth would give it some utility and survival. 900 range is fine, unless they gives us rifle.

savage.3469:

if they bumped our range up to 1200, we would be way too op, we do massive damage as it is in group fights, with the shortbow.

at 900 range, we have so much utility to move into range and out of range of the enemy

If we had 1200 range, they would never escape us (1200 range immobilize from stealth), and we would be way too op in team fights.

Blanket 1200 range for pistols does present some balance issues, but most of the discussion is on just one ability only similar to shortbow.

Shortbow can generate fairly impressive damage with Cluster Bomb, but it requires being at close range to get high dps. Standing out at max 1200 range the dps is actually very sub-par and very easily avoided because the travel time and high arc is so slow at that distance.

One 1200 range ability limited by initiative for pistols is unlikely to be a balance issue provided it’s not some sort of massive burst ability, and it makes it so thieves aren’t completely limited to one single weapon set for siege fighting in WvW.

thanks for seeing my point daeqar. At 900 range we do huge damage in team fights with trick shot(bounces 3 times) and poison field (also applies weaken-15 pts into deadly arts) and the cluster bomb which can catch them offguard.

one 1200 range ability would benefit the pistols very well, and i think bodyshot should be replaced with one.

After playing with p/p some more, i think bodyshot should be a knockback/down skill instead with 300range.

@wilhelmryan

i agree that would be useful, but i would also argue that our #4 headshot has a similar effect, daze (.25 seconds).

After playing with p/p some more, i think bodyshot should be a knockback/down skill instead with 300range.

Only problem with that is we likely won’t ever get a knockback or a knockdown on any of our weaponsets because we use initiative. If you look at other classes with knockbacks and knockdowns, all of them are pretty much exclusively on really long cooldowns.

Yet another reason why I think dual skills should be moved to F2 with a cooldown and then modified in power. We could actually get more crowd control effects and whatnot if there was a cooldown restraint in place. But oh well.