Guild Wars 2

Hello every one ive noticed that thieves arent as viable as they used to be due to revealed and other small annoyances that hinder there combat ability like no valid path to target bug that happens a whole lot especially when the target is right in front of you and the steal skill wont wont because of this bug.but my main issue here is this 5 sec revealed thieves are a stealth class so why cant they do what they were made for and actually be able to stealth back to back like they used to be i mean seriously way to kill a sutch a fun class to play guys and to those who complain that stealth is op or what ever else your excuse is L2P!!!!! thieves were easy to kill back then and even had entertainment value during fights but now its ridiculous as if it cant make up its mind on whether its a stealth class or a visible class and this really ruins the fun of playing one or fighting one i like the adrenaline rush i get when i dont know when my enemies going to strike and for all the kiddies out there that cant keep up maybe you should go play call of duty or something because a stealth class is a stealth class guys cmon use your head all your realy have to do is anticipate there movements and there attack timing ive said all i have to say on this matter so ill be taking my leave bye now

The real issue is our ability to survive/sustain has not kept up with the power creep of other classes. Adding in mechanics to disable our primary defense didn’t help at all but even if revealed (inflicted by enemies) wasn’t in the game it would still be a uphill battle to win against equally skilled opponents.

I don’t mind fights being a challenge but the walls on this house of cards have gotten too thin.

I don’t have a problem with thieves being able to stealth, I person feel that once they attack a target they shouldn’t be able to go back into stealth due to being in combat, to me it seems like its an issue because all the other classes seem to be more even now, but keep in mind just because a class has reveal doesn’t mean they are smart enough to use it

goldengut.9134:

I don’t have a problem with thieves being able to stealth, I person feel that once they attack a target they shouldn’t be able to go back into stealth due to being in combat, to me it seems like its an issue because all the other classes seem to be more even now, but keep in mind just because a class has reveal doesn’t mean they are smart enough to use it

unfortunately, once a thief’s out of stealth, they’ve only got a few seconds to live.

I wouldn’t be totally against your suggestion, but we’d need a sizable increase in our survivability and/or sustain to be able to pull it off. (considering you’re talking about a nerf to an already over-nerfed profession.)

Imagine if thieves were the op profession. Every team would have a couple of thieves. You wouldn’t see any fights. A thief could easily unstealth for 5 seconds, down a visible player stomp then stealth again. Maybe theres a good reason thieves are on the bottom rung.

You mean the forced revealed by other classes? Yes that is a major issue which is a bit forgotten due to the other problems our class has got. But once the game is halfway balanced the reveal skills will hurt a lot more (we’re more dead than alive now anyway).
I don’t oppose to the 3s reveal after a hit out of stealth though, although it can be annoying since every class now has got group stealth and stealthes me when I am about to use CnD – thanks….
On the other hand (= stealthless combat); the idea of staff/daredevil is nice but the execution lacks – I’m not too happy about the skills on staff – somehow it feels as if everything thief does is done better by revenant.

Kadin.2356:

The real issue is our ability to survive/sustain has not kept up with the power creep of other classes. Adding in mechanics to disable our primary defense didn’t help at all but even if revealed (inflicted by enemies) wasn’t in the game it would still be a uphill battle to win against equally skilled opponents.

I don’t mind fights being a challenge but the walls on this house of cards have gotten too thin.

For survival, you’re forgetting Daredevil’s 3rd evasion, Channeled Vigor, Weakening Strikes, Escapist’s Absolution, Endurance Thief, and Unhindered Combatant. Our survival has kept up with the power creep. I do agree however that our sustain and damage have not, and really need to be buffed a bit.

jessiestiles.9437:

Imagine if thieves were the op profession. Every team would have a couple of thieves. You wouldn’t see any fights. A thief could easily unstealth for 5 seconds, down a visible player stomp then stealth again. Maybe theres a good reason thieves are on the bottom rung.

Its not like old days
Every single profession has reavealed and also has potential of stealth.
And also have enough burst damage to down thief while they are out of stealth.
Thieves now can be counterd without changing profession, and lots of AOE damage is already doing it.
PVP is not like PVE ppl can react against other.
Peoples who pathetically killed and react so poorly is called unskilled player and most ppls are not like them.

Gibimo.2193:

Its not like old days
Every single profession has reavealed and also has potential of stealth.

except warrior, ele, necro

or Gaurds. We get 2 seconds stealth per trap when using a particular rune. They have one reavealed skill for 3 seconds and goes off when the thief plans on revealling themselves anyway. I fought a thief which went ridiculously long. They unstealth for 2 seconds take major damage then run off full stealth to heal. This went on for about 3 minutes till we both went down. If thieves were stronger with survivability they would take most people down without a fight. No one would want that.

reikken.4961:

Gibimo.2193:

Its not like old days
Every single profession has reavealed and also has potential of stealth.

except warrior, ele, necro

Warrioir does have a reveal because they can taunt when they activate berserk mode, forcing you to aa.

Revealed hurt d/x people mostly, staff and s/d were not so bad but can be annoying when revealed from shadow refuge and it’s not just me, even when I stealth downed ally they get revealed qq.

No, revealed didn’t kill thieves. The power creep killed thieves.

There’s a correlation between the increase in skills that produce revealed and the decrease in thief effectiveness, but there’s no causation between the two.

Correlation =/= causation.

reikken.4961:

Gibimo.2193:

Its not like old days
Every single profession has reavealed and also has potential of stealth.

except warrior, ele, necro

I swear to all gods, Necros and Eles don’t need it.

Gibimo.2193:

jessiestiles.9437:

Imagine if thieves were the op profession. Every team would have a couple of thieves. You wouldn’t see any fights. A thief could easily unstealth for 5 seconds, down a visible player stomp then stealth again. Maybe theres a good reason thieves are on the bottom rung.

Every single profession has reavealed and also has potential of stealth.
And also have enough burst damage to down thief while they are out of stealth.

Not true.

The problem for thiefs atm is NOT reveal and stealth on other classes.
Hardly anyone has it in their pvp builds.

Scrapper engineers play with Mortar mostly and wont have the reveal trait/spells either.
Most Heralds revenants play mallyx/Shiro and wont have access to it, since its a melee reveal in Glynt.
Dragonhunters dont use the reveal trap.
Druids dont play with their reveal spell either in their main builds.

Thiefs main troubles come from other things than reveal atm.

Thiefs dont have reveal.
Warriors lack it as well.
Necro doesnt have it.
Ele doesnt have it.
Mesmer doesnt have it.

So over half the classes dont have access to it in some way.

Many builds dont have it in their current pvp build (more or less noone has it in their current pvp build, because almost noone uses stealth atm).

Regarding stealth.

Necro doesnt have stealth.
Warrior doesnt have stealth.
Ele doesnt have stealth.
Revenant doesnt have stealth.
Guardian doesnt have stealth spells or traits (only through a particular rune, which is not an ideal choice).

Roughly half the classes again (unless you count leaping and blasting into smoke fields, which only thiefs and druid with smokescale pet provide in their pvp builds currently)

Druids dont use stealth in their current builds (a little bit from smokescreen + blast finisher from Smokescale pet).
Engineer scrappers have stealth access but usually dont have it in their current builds.
Mesmers have stealth access but the current Chronomancer builds dont use it.
Thiefs have stealth and still use it, although less with all the Daredevil dodges.

So some classes having stealth and some reveal is not the main Thief problem atm.

Lots of classes are bunkerlike atm, so they dont actually have a great burst,
but dmg has gone up for some by a lot,
like for necro and guardian for example
and than there is the new class Revenant.

Classes in HoT have new builds and spells through which they can defend themselfs better vs Thiefs nowadays. I think that makes thief less strong in HoT compared to pre-HoT.

I’m revealed by all professions that have reveal – please don’t come with the “but no one uses it” stuff =)

I like the revealed skills (although I imagine they’re really annoying for solo roaming in WvW with zergs around). In sPvP, they add interesting dynamics to the game, particularly when sneak gyro is the new engi meta. What I don’t like is fighting builds that have immense damage, damage mitigation, healing, and/or multiple invulns that need to be baited out. Learning to counter new skills is a big draw for me to play this game. Playing with a mathematical handicap against the current meta is not.

Nah reveal alone didn’t kill thieves…

Neglect and power creep did.

And killed is a pretty strong word… There’s still people playing thieves… It’s more like it’s just in a bad shape – though in a better shape then it will be next year!

Quite honestly though, isn’t this normal guys? Why are we still bringing it up?

Zero Day.2594:

Quite honestly though, isn’t this normal guys? Why are we still bringing it up?

just because something’s normal doesn’t mean it’s acceptable. if we just accept the stat of thief it’ll never get better.

Gray.9041:

Zero Day.2594:

Quite honestly though, isn’t this normal guys? Why are we still bringing it up?

just because something’s normal doesn’t mean it’s acceptable. if we just accept the stat of thief it’ll never get better.

Problem is that if any buff they do effects us in stealth, we’ll be almost immediately declared OP due to the fact that you won’t see us when we strike. Short of them changing up one of Daredevil’s traits so we’ll get a stacking damage buff outside of stealth the longer we’re out of it (possibly capping at like 10-20% more damage), don’t expect a massive change in power.

When I read the thread title, I thought it said “revenant killed thieves.” I was very confused when I read nothing about Revenant.

Beside ‘Steal’, thief needs F3 ability that will make them go stealth without any special preparations or whatever (make it at least 6 second stealth with 10 sec CD and half second cast, for example). Kinda sad when your whole build needs to be centered around maintaining stealth and entering stealth through combo. It’s a thief for god’s sake, should be baseline to have easy access to stealth, just like other classes have easy access to their own specific things. You don’t see hunters summoning satan and sacrificing virgins to it to call their pet. They press button and they have the beast mauling at you already.

The game has such great stealth mechanics, but it’s crippled with terrible access to it for the class that should be centered around it.

Also, nerf reveal, don’t remove, just nerf to 2 seconds.

Jana.6831:

I’m revealed by all professions that have reveal – please don’t come with the “but no one uses it” stuff =)

What I mentioned about reveal is true.

If you are revealed constantly by all professions with reveal, than you play often vs players with odd non-meta builds.

I find that unlikely as most players I meet use their stronger builds/meta builds often and those usually lack reveal.

When I play Daredevil thief I rarely meet people with reveal.
Besides, Daredevil thief nowadays is a lot about evading and dodging and less about stealth, compared to pre-Hot expansion Thief.

Yashuoa.9527:

When I play Daredevil thief I rarely meet people with reveal. Besides, Daredevil thief nowadays is a lot about evading and dodging and less about stealth, compared to pre-Hot expansion Thief.

maybe that’s because people are less likely to use reveals against daredevil?, like you said?

also, it’s not pre-HoT thief. it’s still thief. daredevil hasn’t replaced thief. or, at the very least it shouldn’t have, and hasn’t for anyone who hasn’t bought HoT

Yashuoa.9527:

Jana.6831:

I’m revealed by all professions that have reveal – please don’t come with the “but no one uses it” stuff =)

What I mentioned about reveal is true.

If you are revealed constantly by all professions with reveal, than you play often vs players with odd non-meta builds.

I find that unlikely as most players I meet use their stronger builds/meta builds often and those usually lack reveal.

When I play Daredevil thief I rarely meet people with reveal.
Besides, Daredevil thief nowadays is a lot about evading and dodging and less about stealth, compared to pre-Hot expansion Thief.

Look at my signature – wvw players are players as well – and they’re probably not using meta builds – I don’t, never did.
And yeah, like gray said: if you don’t stealth you won’t notice reveal.
It would be great if “vanilla builds” weren’t deleted with HoT but that is what happend – and what actually happened before.
The reveal stuff is something that made me lose my faith in the balancing team – no matter whether or not “there’s a new thief with perma evades” as that will have to be nerfed at some point if anet is serious about competitive play. What will be left of thief after that?

Gray.9041:

Yashuoa.9527:

When I play Daredevil thief I rarely meet people with reveal. Besides, Daredevil thief nowadays is a lot about evading and dodging and less about stealth, compared to pre-Hot expansion Thief.

maybe that’s because people are less likely to use reveals against daredevil?, like you said?

also, it’s not pre-HoT thief. it’s still thief. daredevil hasn’t replaced thief. or, at the very least it shouldn’t have, and hasn’t for anyone who hasn’t bought HoT

I cant call them all thief otherwise you wont know which thief I mean.

With pre-Hot thief I meant to refer to the time where the Daredevil spec didnt existed yet, so there was no option yet for lot of dodges (through the expansion Daredevil spec).
Thief without Daredevil spec included can indeed be called thief.
Sometimes I find it difficult what to call everything with these new elite specs and new utility spells changing build names and such.

And yeah it would be better if classes with an elite spec included, werent more powerful than without (roughly equal would be better), but fact of the matter is, that atm, most of them are stronger.

When dmg and also area of effects fly all over the place (which can hit you in stealth regardless of reveal), dodges just simply become very valueable.

If you look at the metabuilds than you can see that almost none of them has reveal.
So its not just only people less likely using it vs Daredevil.

Jana.6831:

Look at my signature – wvw players are players as well – and they’re probably not using meta builds – I don’t, never did.
And yeah, like gray said: if you don’t stealth you won’t notice reveal.
It would be great if “vanilla builds” weren’t deleted with HoT but that is what happend – and what actually happened before.
The reveal stuff is something that made me lose my faith in the balancing team – no matter whether or not “there’s a new thief with perma evades” as that will have to be nerfed at some point if anet is serious about competitive play. What will be left of thief after that?

I never said that wvw players are not players btw.

Also I do stealth as Daredevil as well.
Just less.

Maybe it would be good to reduce the reveal duration some like Martin said?
Or some other way that tries to find a good balance between stealth and counter stealth (one side not being to strong compared to the other).

I get the idea behind reveal: zergs in wvw use stealth as a deceptive maneuver and reveal from engis and revenants works against that – but it also destroys half of one class and that is something that should’ve been taken into consideration before. Even our stealthless weaponset staff requires stealth for one meager CC (I’m dishing out 1000% more CC with 2 skills on my revenant).
Whatever you come up with; reveal still hurts every thief.