Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

Im trying to figure out a build for a thief that would be based on condi pressure, but would also incorporate Lotus Training and Impairing Daggers that DD has to offer. Problem is, which traitline would it be prudent to drop in favor of DD?

Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVnMJCFNhdmCePB8PhFYCzDzhwTYKU7PFAKAA-TpQTQAg9HwlBAA

If i drop Trickery, not only do I lose max ini, but also interrupt on Steal and Torment on interrupt.

If i drop Shadow Arts, I lose reduced CD and lifesteal on venoms.

If i drop Deadly Arts, i lose lots and lots of Poison effectiveness, whoch seems crucial.

Should I just drop DD?

(other ideas are of course welcome)

I’m currently theorycrafting a DD D/D Condi build.

What I found out is that, if you’re going to be choosing Lotus Training or Bound, it’s necessary to take Acro (plus Channeled Vigor)…else those traits will be severely limited on use.

Here’s what I have so far: DD White Lotus

The basic combo in this build is to start with SB:
→ use Infiltrator’s Arrow on top of your target
→ blinds them
→ swap to D/D
→ procs Sigil for bleed
→ Death Blossom
→ Dodge
→ Death Blossom
→ Dodge
→ Caltrops
→ Impairing daggers
→ depending on the timing, you can swap and drop a Choking Gas

However, I’m still contemplating to use P/D and Dash instead for better effectiveness, but I never like the P/D playstyle.

Another idea you could use for inspiration DB spam
It might be better to use Trailblazer instead of Carrion, but those are each good options. Auto attack when you cc an opponent, otherwise dodge and DB all over the place. Mad King Runes summon birds that attack 16 times, which when combined with SoM is essentially a heal skill. Otherwise swap SoM with Withdraw and MK runes with Trapper.

i suppose u are speaking bout a pvp-build?

Dang, I indeed forgot to narrow the game mode – yeah, I’m thinking of sPvP.

Both builds are both really interesting and really different from my ideas, thanks guys! The Mad King + signet synergy I didn’t even think about, kudos

However, both of those builds arent using Venoms at all. Are Venoms really as bad as I heard? I know that somewhere in the past venomshare thieves were nerfed, does that make Venoms subpar, and if so, why?

Secondly, I see both Caltrops and Traps being used. What makes them viable? Havent used either really (regrettably), mostly because Ive never had people run into any of my traps in an active fight on my Ranger, so I kind of shunned Thief traps too, and from what I can see Caltrops acts kind of like a trap.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQRAqY4Yl0MhunYbTw5JQ/ELtEmXZ4OkimHhrwXoWAoLsAA-TFSAABgq+T0nBgC3fQ6DCAAPAgB1PMpSwxU+FAABYmlZZWmBDdoDdoDdoNzZOzZOzZWKgFVWB-w

^ This is what I’ve been running in HoT. It’s been really fun in PvE and seems to be working pretty well in WvW as well. I haven’t tested it in sPvP yet though.

I’m not 100% certain on the choices. I was using shortbow instead of D/D before HoT and I may go back to it. If so I’d switch Deadly Arts #1 to trapper’s respite of course. I think my favorite part of HoT is that my dodges are now essentially death blossoms that also give +10% condi dmg.

Needle trap and caltrops are definitely good. The thing with Thief traps is that they are instant, so you don’t really have to rely on someone walking into them; you drop them directly on top of the other person. If you already have caltrops down and you drop a trap on them, then they now are stuck in the caltrops field.

Skill #7 I flex all the time. Not sure what I want there yet. In PvE I usually just use signet of shadows to run around even faster. Roll for initiative is nice for more Death Blossoms and as a stunbreak. And Impairing Daggers looks pretty interesting.

Good luck and have fun, Condi thief is awesome!

Quinci.5968:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQRAqY4Yl0MhunYbTw5JQ/ELtEmXZ4OkimHhrwXoWAoLsAA-TFSAABgq+T0nBgC3fQ6DCAAPAgB1PMpSwxU+FAABYmlZZWmBDdoDdoDdoNzZOzZOzZWKgFVWB-w

^ This is what I’ve been running in HoT. It’s been really fun in PvE and seems to be working pretty well in WvW as well. I haven’t tested it in sPvP yet though.

I’m not 100% certain on the choices. I was using shortbow instead of D/D before HoT and I may go back to it. If so I’d switch Deadly Arts #1 to trapper’s respite of course. I think my favorite part of HoT is that my dodges are now essentially death blossoms that also give +10% condi dmg.

Needle trap and caltrops are definitely good. The thing with Thief traps is that they are instant, so you don’t really have to rely on someone walking into them; you drop them directly on top of the other person. If you already have caltrops down and you drop a trap on them, then they now are stuck in the caltrops field.

Skill #7 I flex all the time. Not sure what I want there yet. In PvE I usually just use signet of shadows to run around even faster. Roll for initiative is nice for more Death Blossoms and as a stunbreak. And Impairing Daggers looks pretty interesting.

Good luck and have fun, Condi thief is awesome!

pretty interesting build. looks fun. have you considered replacing the traveler runes?

For sPvP, you’ll be fighting builds that either don’t have enough sustained condi removal to be fighting you for a node or builds that require you to have the most optimized balance of offense and defense in your build because of how much sustain they have. Against players without sustained condi removal, it doesn’t really matter whether your build uses DA, Acro, dodge-centric utility skills, or burstier condi utilities because they all can work.

However, Against scrappers, d/d eles, reapers, cele druids, and other bruisers, it’s really important to both sustain your dodges as well as maintain a certain quantity and quality of condis being applied on the target. To accomplish this, you would need to take DA over Acro for the posion proc on daggers hits, weakness on posion, and improv. You would also need to take agility signet and RFI over the condi utilities like caltrops, needle trap, and impairing daggers. Improv even allows Thieve’s Guild to reset well before the 3 minute cool-down is up.

rennlc.7346:

For sPvP, you’ll be fighting builds that either don’t have enough sustained condi removal to be fighting you for a node or builds that require you to have the most optimized balance of offense and defense in your build because of how much sustain they have. Against players without sustained condi removal, it doesn’t really matter whether your build uses DA, Acro, dodge-centric utility skills, or burstier condi utilities because they all can work.

However, Against scrappers, d/d eles, reapers, cele druids, and other bruisers, it’s really important to both sustain your dodges as well as maintain a certain quantity and quality of condis being applied on the target. To accomplish this, you would need to take DA over Acro for the posion proc on daggers hits, weakness on posion, and improv. You would also need to take agility signet and RFI over the condi utilities like caltrops, needle trap, and impairing daggers. Improv even allows Thieve’s Guild to reset well before the 3 minute cool-down is up.

Yeah, I get what you mean. I mostly play condi builds in PvP, and Ive already learned that relying on a single, even if powerful, condition usually fails because of the stack mechanic and the way removal works.

One thing Ive also learned in my MMR range – interrupting an enemy twice with either pistol or distracting daggers and making torment and Pulmonary Impact proc usually baits a condi removal… and then its condibomb time

inharmonic.1975:

Quinci.5968:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQRAqY4Yl0MhunYbTw5JQ/ELtEmXZ4OkimHhrwXoWAoLsAA-TFSAABgq+T0nBgC3fQ6DCAAPAgB1PMpSwxU+FAABYmlZZWmBDdoDdoDdoNzZOzZOzZWKgFVWB-w

^ This is what I’ve been running in HoT. It’s been really fun in PvE and seems to be working pretty well in WvW as well. I haven’t tested it in sPvP yet though.

I’m not 100% certain on the choices. I was using shortbow instead of D/D before HoT and I may go back to it. If so I’d switch Deadly Arts #1 to trapper’s respite of course. I think my favorite part of HoT is that my dodges are now essentially death blossoms that also give +10% condi dmg.

Needle trap and caltrops are definitely good. The thing with Thief traps is that they are instant, so you don’t really have to rely on someone walking into them; you drop them directly on top of the other person. If you already have caltrops down and you drop a trap on them, then they now are stuck in the caltrops field.

Skill #7 I flex all the time. Not sure what I want there yet. In PvE I usually just use signet of shadows to run around even faster. Roll for initiative is nice for more Death Blossoms and as a stunbreak. And Impairing Daggers looks pretty interesting.

Good luck and have fun, Condi thief is awesome!

pretty interesting build. looks fun. have you considered replacing the traveler runes?

Ya the runes are definitely not set in stone. I was originally playing a trapper build kinds like the “ghost thief” only I actually used my pistol #1 since I was going for real effectiveness instead of just cheese with perma-stealth.

I swapped out the trapper runes when they got nerfed to 2 seconds and also because I don’t use SA anymore so the stealth isn’t as helpful. After playing with this build more I’m actually starting to consider getting rid of the pistol altogether since D/D is better when I’m not stealthed and the sustain from Driven Fortitude is surprisingly good when using Death Blossom and dodges. This would allow me to bring shortbow back for #5 and the poison field.

The main reason I ended up with Traveler is the 10% condi duration and the 25% speed. Then it still gives a decent amount of condi, power, and defense stats. Other options are Adventurer, Afflicted, Scavenging, Orr, Krait, etc. The problem is most of the runes only buff a particular condition’s duration and I was looking for a generic condi duration like Trapper has. I’ll probably switch the runes around every week until I settle on the one I like the most lol.

Hectorim Sears.1479:

However, both of those builds arent using Venoms at all. Are Venoms really as bad as I heard? I know that somewhere in the past venomshare thieves were nerfed, does that make Venoms subpar, and if so, why?

Venom’s long cooldown and the effect with short duration makes it a liability. Besides there are better choices to fill up the same utility slot.

Secondly, I see both Caltrops and Traps being used. What makes them viable? Havent used either really (regrettably), mostly because Ive never had people run into any of my traps in an active fight on my Ranger, so I kind of shunned Thief traps too, and from what I can see Caltrops acts kind of like a trap.

Ranger traps are hard to use because you have to remain passive about it and wait for others to run into it. However, Thieves can use traps aggressively by activating the traps then Stealing before you finish casting. When timed correctly, you will place the trap right on top of your target. Same thing with Caltrops, you can activate it then Steal before the casting time finishes.

I personally like Caltrops because of its large Area of effect.