Guild Wars 2

D/P or D/D for burst?

100% shortbow is must for either build as secondary weapon.

Build is either 30/30/0/0/10 or 25/30/0/0/15 traits can vary.

I prefer D/D because I feel like D/P is unreliable. I use devourer to also immo my target so that the whole D/D burst hits.

Recent stream of about 15 minutes worth of spvp this morning: http://www.twitch.tv/swinsk/b/392469434

I kind of wanted to hear form D/P burst people on how they make it work…

Maybe post a video or two or something…

I find D/D to be far more unreliable than D/P. You can easily miss your CnD, but with D/P you are gonna get stealth no matter what, after you have laid down your Black Powder field. Black Powder is also very strong against Melee, because most of the time the enemy do not realise they are blinded and just keeps standing in your blind field.
If I understood your second post right, you’re wondering how the burst work? I actually made a little video some days ago, showing just that. It was only for a friend but I guess it works here as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29DhzyoeVqA

I hope it makes sense :-)

Hrm, very interesting. I was watching Caed’s stream the other day. He mostly hit backstab first then steal while already stealthed, but it fails a lot. The damage is instant. I don’t think I saw him once BP+HS+steal to backstab.

I will try this out.

EDIT: Once you get good at the D/D burst it’s really easy to pull off. Just don’t do it while someone is evading or has invuln up, but that goes with any burst.

Briix.6872:

I find D/D to be far more unreliable than D/P. You can easily miss your CnD, but with D/P you are gonna get stealth no matter what, after you have laid down your Black Powder field. Black Powder is also very strong against Melee, because most of the time the enemy do not realise they are blinded and just keeps standing in your blind field.
If I understood your second post right, you’re wondering how the burst work? I actually made a little video some days ago, showing just that. It was only for a friend but I guess it works here as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29DhzyoeVqA

I hope it makes sense :-)

D/P burst requires black powder first.. a little setup.. whereas D/D you do it instantly.. as long as you arent being obvious about it you can hit CnD and Mug.. easier than BP →HS →MUG..

not to mention D/D burst hits harder.. the other point i wanted to make is that you need Mug.. i personally find it difficult to include mug in a trait set for D/P..

swinsk.6410:

Hrm, very interesting. I was watching Caed’s stream the other day. He mostly hit backstab first then steal while already stealthed, but it fails a lot. The damage is instant. I don’t think I saw him once BP+HS+steal to backstab.

I will try this out.

EDIT: Once you get good at the D/D burst it’s really easy to pull off. Just don’t do it while someone is evading or has invuln up, but that goes with any burst.

BP -> HS -> Steal -> BS is what you could call the full combo, but it is very viable to also just stealth up and do BS -> Steal. Once get used to it, you miss very rarely and it’s a nice and quick way to finish off a fight if you’re helping out the point defender. But again, BS -> Steal is possible to do with D/D.

iNaddict.8021:

D/P burst requires black powder first.. a little setup.. whereas D/D you do it instantly.. as long as you arent being obvious about it you can hit CnD and Mug.. easier than BP ->HS ->MUG..

not to mention D/D burst hits harder.. the other point i wanted to make is that you need Mug.. i personally find it difficult to include mug in a trait set for D/P..

That’s true. It’s a bit harder to land the full burst with D/P. It does hit for about the same amount of damage though. There’s very little different.
If you look at the skills though:
D/D:
Autoattack (BS): Very convenient, and is the primary source of damage.
HS: Again very convenient for finishing off players with low health.
LDB: Not useful at all in a burst build.
Dancing Daggers: Got nerfed a long time again and is not worth using.
CnD: Very useful, of course, as it is used for setting up the BS and possible staying alive a bit longer.

So in D/D you have three useful skills.

D/P:
Autoattack (BS): Same as in D/D.
HS: Same as in D/D.
Shadow Shot: Has the same initiative cost as Dancing Daggers, but instead of just slowing down you enemy a bit you shadow step to them. One of the best skills for taking down a fleeing enemy.
Body Shot: A bit high initiative cost, but it can be used to interrupt their heal skill, when they try to finish someone or when they try to res someone. Very useful.
Black Powder: Blinds everyone that stands in the circle and can provide stealth together with HS. Also very useful.

From my point of view it’s pretty clear that D/P is just superior to D/D. It brings so much more utility and useful skills than D/D does.

Also, here’s a build where Mug is incorporated: http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.7.1.10.20.0.22.22.5.0.154.168.169.176.178.2.2.24.453.459.0.466.471.477.0.0.0.0.0.0.515.0.0.25.30.0.0.15
It’s pretty much what Caed is using.

Briix.6872:

swinsk.6410:

Hrm, very interesting. I was watching Caed’s stream the other day. He mostly hit backstab first then steal while already stealthed, but it fails a lot. The damage is instant. I don’t think I saw him once BP+HS+steal to backstab.

I will try this out.

EDIT: Once you get good at the D/D burst it’s really easy to pull off. Just don’t do it while someone is evading or has invuln up, but that goes with any burst.

BP -> HS -> Steal -> BS is what you could call the full combo, but it is very viable to also just stealth up and do BS -> Steal. Once get used to it, you miss very rarely and it’s a nice and quick way to finish off a fight if you’re helping out the point defender. But again, BS -> Steal is possible to do with D/D.

iNaddict.8021:

D/P burst requires black powder first.. a little setup.. whereas D/D you do it instantly.. as long as you arent being obvious about it you can hit CnD and Mug.. easier than BP ->HS ->MUG..

not to mention D/D burst hits harder.. the other point i wanted to make is that you need Mug.. i personally find it difficult to include mug in a trait set for D/P..

That’s true. It’s a bit harder to land the full burst with D/P. It does hit for about the same amount of damage though. There’s very little different.
If you look at the skills though:
D/D:
Autoattack (BS): Very convenient, and is the primary source of damage.
HS: Again very convenient for finishing off players with low health.
LDB: Not useful at all in a burst build.
Dancing Daggers: Got nerfed a long time again and is not worth using.
CnD: Very useful, of course, as it is used for setting up the BS and possible staying alive a bit longer.

So in D/D you have three useful skills.

D/P:
Autoattack (BS): Same as in D/D.
HS: Same as in D/D.
Shadow Shot: Has the same initiative cost as Dancing Daggers, but instead of just slowing down you enemy a bit you shadow step to them. One of the best skills for taking down a fleeing enemy.
Body Shot: A bit high initiative cost, but it can be used to interrupt their heal skill, when they try to finish someone or when they try to res someone. Very useful.
Black Powder: Blinds everyone that stands in the circle and can provide stealth together with HS. Also very useful.

From my point of view it’s pretty clear that D/P is just superior to D/D. It brings so much more utility and useful skills than D/D does.

Also, here’s a build where Mug is incorporated: http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.7.1.10.20.0.22.22.5.0.154.168.169.176.178.2.2.24.453.459.0.466.471.477.0.0.0.0.0.0.515.0.0.25.30.0.0.15
It’s pretty much what Caed is using.

D/P does not have body shot, it has headshot.

Yes, you are right. My mistake! My description of the skill is still correct though. I should stop writing these from the top of my head and check out the correct names. Thanks for pointing it out :-)

Yes D/P is considered the optimal burst set at high level play precisely because all 5 skills on the bar are great on their own and have amazing synergy.

Headshot especially. SPvP as a burst without a reliable interrupt is going to have a hard time against any high sustain bunker.

easy answer.. why dnt u use em both!? d/d spike burst then switch to d/p heres my small clip recorded 2days ago. pls do watch my other videos on youtube subscribe and like

Coloxeus.3480:

easy answer.. why dnt u use em both!? d/d spike burst then switch to d/p heres my small clip recorded 2days ago. pls do watch my other videos on youtube subscribe and like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBJh64Pk1ok

I don’t think a D/P D/D setup is viable in SPvP. You’re missing out on the mobility from the shortbow + the AoE.

swinsk.6410:

I don’t think I saw him once BP+HS+steal to backstab.

This doesn’t work if you are traited for mug. If you steal in stealth with mug, the mug damage will break the stealth and you won’t BS. That is why a d/p thief will BP+HS+BS then steal.

I played d/d for probably 300 tourney games or so, and d/p for another ~200 and still going. I personally find d/p superior in every way, once you get used to the burst combo. The OH pistol skills are just far too valuable.

Also, a d/p thief can stack 8 seconds of stealth at will if they have full ini, 12s if spec’d into shadow arts. If you have fast ini regen, you will come out of that stealth with full ini again. So that’s something neat a d/d can’t do.

Nettle.9025:

swinsk.6410:

I don’t think I saw him once BP+HS+steal to backstab.

This doesn’t work if you are traited for mug. If you steal in stealth with mug, the mug damage will break the stealth and you won’t BS. That is why a d/p thief will BP+HS+BS then steal.

I played d/d for probably 300 tourney games or so, and d/p for another ~200 and still going. I personally find d/p superior in every way, once you get used to the burst combo. The OH pistol skills are just far too valuable.

Also, a d/p thief can stack 8 seconds of stealth at will if they have full ini, 12s if spec’d into shadow arts. If you have fast ini regen, you will come out of that stealth with full ini again. So that’s something neat a d/d can’t do.

There is a more nuanced and more effective d/p burst combo that does not require you to steal AFTER backstab.

The stealth applied by leap finisher only applies after your heartseeker animation finishes. You need to use steal after starting the heartseeker, but before its animation ends, so that the mug hits while you are not yet stealthed. Once your heartseeker ends, you will gain stealth for the backstab.

Nettle.9025:

swinsk.6410:

I don’t think I saw him once BP+HS+steal to backstab.

This doesn’t work if you are traited for mug. If you steal in stealth with mug, the mug damage will break the stealth and you won’t BS. That is why a d/p thief will BP+HS+BS then steal.

I played d/d for probably 300 tourney games or so, and d/p for another ~200 and still going. I personally find d/p superior in every way, once you get used to the burst combo. The OH pistol skills are just far too valuable.

Also, a d/p thief can stack 8 seconds of stealth at will if they have full ini, 12s if spec’d into shadow arts. If you have fast ini regen, you will come out of that stealth with full ini again. So that’s something neat a d/d can’t do.

It does work to BS → Steal and hit with both attacks even if you are running with Mug. Just look at the video I posted earlier where I Steal mid HS and still land both attacks. It works the same way with BS and Steal.