Guild Wars 2

Particularly with this ability because it includes a melee attack. I find that 25% health stealth gets broken because I had been channeling cloak and dagger. So let’s make cloak and dagger hit but not renew stealth if you are currently stealthed.

Kitono.9152:

Particularly with this ability because it includes a melee attack. I find that 25% health stealth gets broken because I had been channeling cloak and dagger. So let’s make cloak and dagger hit but not renew stealth if you are currently stealthed.

Or Raise the Area it hits from \ / to \____/ (regular autoattacks.), or raise the range from 130 to 170.

It seems to have a 40% Miss Rate…. it never hits unless the target is RIGHT infront of you…

I second Daecollo.9578

Anyone else in favor of raising the arc/range?

I wouldn’t mind raising the arc a little. I have a heck of a hard time hitting with it in WvW. Though, to be honest, that’s because I suck: I don’t get a lot of practice with melee in WvW, and PvE mobs don’t move at all like players do.

to be honest it should consume initiative only if it hits, or the arc needs to be raised, its to easy to miss with it atm because the arc is so short…

CnD isnt that hard to hit if you get used to it. I even think it is quite fair that you need to be in kissing range to apply it as it makes restealthing for thiefs harder and enemies have a better chance to evade the stealth.

But to the blinding powder trait (I call it often the “lets kill myself trait”). Either blinding powder needs to go and be replaced with a trait which doesnt affect your gameplay that much, or you need to be able to disable minor traits, or the blinding powder trait should give a special stealth which doesnt unstealth you for 0.6 seconds, even if you attack something.
The trait also can kick in if you do another delayed attack like dancing dagger, a normal pistol/shortbow shot or anything which is channeled. 0.6 seconds should give you some time to either stop the attack, or time for the attack to hit without getting the revealed debuff.
Some may complain that it enables thiefs to do a free backstab, but how likely is it that you suddenly drop below 25% health, notice it right away to pull of a backstab which takes 1/4 sec to be executed anyway? Means you need to notice that blinding powder kicked in after 0.35 seconds and if you make the unrevalable stealth time only 0.5 seconds, it would be 0.25 seconds to notice it to get in a free backstab.

Panacea.4927:

CnD isnt that hard to hit if you get used to it. I even think it is quite fair that you need to be in kissing range to apply it as it makes restealthing for thiefs harder and enemies have a better chance to evade the stealth.

But to the blinding powder trait (I call it often the “lets kill myself trait”). Either blinding powder needs to go and be replaced with a trait which doesnt affect your gameplay that much, or you need to be able to disable minor traits, or the blinding powder trait should give a special stealth which doesnt unstealth you for 0.6 seconds, even if you attack something.
The trait also can kick in if you do another delayed attack like dancing dagger, a normal pistol/shortbow shot or anything which is channeled. 0.6 seconds should give you some time to either stop the attack, or time for the attack to hit without getting the revealed debuff.
Some may complain that it enables thiefs to do a free backstab, but how likely is it that you suddenly drop below 25% health, notice it right away to pull of a backstab which takes 1/4 sec to be executed anyway? Means you need to notice that blinding powder kicked in after 0.35 seconds and if you make the unrevalable stealth time only 0.5 seconds, it would be 0.25 seconds to notice it to get in a free backstab.

I’ve often used it once, hit and used it again by actident and hit again, revealing myself, because the class has no Cool-downs, it makes it hard to use certain attacks because I often que them up twice.

Daecollo.9578:

I’ve often used it once, hit and used it again by actident and hit again, revealing myself, because the class has no Cool-downs, it makes it hard to use certain attacks because I often que them up twice.

That is more a personal problem and not one of CnD. The only issue which CnD has is, that you sometimes dont get teh fancy stealth effect on your char and maybe try to hit CnD again, but you still can see the buff on your buffbar.

If you ask me, CnD is fine and there is no problem with it except the 30% dmg nerf in sPvP which was unjustified.

Panacea.4927:

Daecollo.9578:

I’ve often used it once, hit and used it again by actident and hit again, revealing myself, because the class has no Cool-downs, it makes it hard to use certain attacks because I often que them up twice.

That is more a personal problem and not one of CnD. The only issue which CnD has is, that you sometimes dont get teh fancy stealth effect on your char and maybe try to hit CnD again, but you still can see the buff on your buffbar.

If you ask me, CnD is fine and there is no problem with it except the 30% dmg nerf in sPvP which was unjustified.

In SPVP there isn’t as much lag as in WvWvW, so its much easier to hit people with it, also people arn’t in roaming builds (build for swiftness/movement speed.) so you travel faster then they do.

in WvWvW, everyone has some kind of swiftness, meaning if they are 10 range out of your attack, it misses, and it misses often because all you need to do to avoid CD is move with 33% movement speed.

Lag also hurts this as well.

In SPvP, I have no problem landing hits, people don’t spec for movement, they either burst or bunker up.

But this game isn’t all about SPvP, an arc increase for a 6 initative attack that you slash at your target is fair.

Get swiftness yourself then and dont rely totally on your 25% signet, use dancing dagger to cripple your target, have 5 points in acrobat and dodge towards your enemy so you cover more ground while beeing in swiftness. I play a thief in WvW myself and I only have problems to apply CnD at enemies who know thiefs and try to dodge it.
CnD should remain a combo which requires somekind of skill and shouldnt turn into a no-brainer.

Edit:
The arc is already about 180°
Edit:
I’m sorry, the arc is even bigger, could use cnd while I had a practice dummy ON MY BACK!

Panacea.4927:

Get swiftness yourself then and dont rely totally on your 25% signet, use dancing dagger to cripple your target, have 5 points in acrobat and dodge towards your enemy so you cover more ground while beeing in swiftness. I play a thief in WvW myself and I only have problems to apply CnD at enemies who know thiefs and try to dodge it.
CnD should remain a combo which requires somekind of skill and shouldnt turn into a no-brainer.

Thieves do not have access to long duration of swiftness.

The Arc for our auto-attack is almost twice as large as the one cloak and dagger offers, Cloak and Dagger if you look at logs probably has the most miss rate out of any melee attack in the entire game. (even though you say its not, my experiences in PvE/PvP differ, the arc could be wider in pvp then it is in pve.)

Saying I should learn some skill and should not be turned in a no-brainer is a bit harse, many people are experiencing the same problem I am with the skill, this means I and they should all just learn to play better, I see many more skilled players in WvWvW then I do in SPvP, As I said before, in SPvP I have no problem landing a CnD.

I’m pretty fine with the dodge swiftness as these 2 seconds and the dodge itself cover enough room. In the end its about to avoid the thief and his CnD so thiefs should work to hit that 6 init combo. The 1/2 sec execution time and 6 init are basicly designed that a thief has to work to hit with it and cant spam it easily.

CnD also has the biggest missrate due to the 1/2 sec execution time and as the dagger autoattack has the same attackrange and arc of CnD. Test it out on a practice dummy and you will notice that they behave the same and only the execution time makes it harder to hit with it.

CnD is fine, it is hard to hit and is expensive but for that you can use it often when you can cover the init costs. It gives you stealth which is a very strong mechanic if you use it proper. Right now you require abit of timing on when to preload CnD and the distance your enemy and you will cover in the next 1/2 second.

And I have no problem to land CnD in WvW, except we have skilllag and my execution time for CnD goes from 1/2 up to 1-2 seconds.

Panacea.4927:

I’m pretty fine with the dodge swiftness as these 2 seconds and the dodge itself cover enough room. In the end its about to avoid the thief and his CnD so thiefs should work to hit that 6 init combo. The 1/2 sec execution time and 6 init are basicly designed that a thief has to work to hit with it and cant spam it easily.

CnD also has the biggest missrate due to the 1/2 sec execution time and as the dagger autoattack has the same attackrange and arc of CnD. Test it out on a practice dummy and you will notice that they behave the same and only the execution time makes it harder to hit with it.

CnD is fine, it is hard to hit and is expensive but for that you can use it often when you can cover the init costs. It gives you stealth which is a very strong mechanic if you use it proper. Right now you require abit of timing on when to preload CnD and the distance your enemy and you will cover in the next 1/2 second.

And I have no problem to land CnD in WvW, except we have skilllag and my execution time for CnD goes from 1/2 up to 1-2 seconds.

“preload CnD” means using the CnD+Steal or Shadowstep combo, it does not matter what the range is or arc, because steal and other shadow skills always put you in CnD range, so it does not matter what you use.

This I do not think is intended, and skills should NOT be balanced around gap-closer range making them viable.

I actually meant another preload… pressing it while beeing out of range and running towards your approaching enemy who runs directly into your CnD.
I’m sorry if I used a wrong term in that case as for me preparing to hit something which you cant hit right now would be preloading.

Hello,
There is already a thread about this topic in this sub-forum: Feedback about the thief and its game-play, therefore this one is now closed.

Thank you for your understanding.