Guild Wars 2

hey,

i feel that pulmonary impact in its current form is too strong/rewards headshotspam vs certain classes. as proven by many other threads a lot of players agree.

so here is my suggestion:
let it work similar to powerblock, i.e. it only works on interrupted skills that have a cooldown.

that way u can at least autoattack him and are not that much of a sitting duck anymore (especially on necro^^).

what do you think?

the only class that i could see complaining about head shot spam is probably a rev or a reaper. even then they can still trait for enough stability to make head shot less useful.

after getting fed up with being aa head shotted, i have had to learn and be less predictable while fighting thievs. a good thief will quickly see wether or not its worth his time to head shot your AA’s and play smart. although it is annoying being proced for 4.4k PI in wvw but thats an out of balanced mode all togeather.

try waiting for wasted ini when he got 1 till 2 other pi-thieves taking turns headshotting and AAing you. besides unless u have pulsing stab he will just steal it …

Ash.8127:

try waiting for wasted ini when he got 1 till 2 other pi-thieves taking turns headshotting and AAing you. besides unless u have pulsing stab he will just steal it …

It’s always hilarious when people’s complaints go straight to well if there is more than one and I am outnumbered by them…….

Counters exist, through Stability, Projectile Hate, Dodges, Blocks, and so on, and any class when fighting multiple and you are by yourself will give the majority of players a hard time.

Ash.8127:

hey,

i feel that pulmonary impact in its current form is too strong/rewards headshotspam vs certain classes. as proven by many other threads a lot of players agree.

so here is my suggestion:
let it work similar to powerblock, i.e. it only works on interrupted skills that have a cooldown.

that way u can at least autoattack him and are not that much of a sitting duck anymore (especially on necro^^).

what do you think?

Nothing has been proven in other threads as to whether it PI to powerful. People have just expressed opinions on their matter which is different than proof. Spamming a headshot does lss overall damage then spamming an unload or spamming a shadowshot or spamming ones AA especaiily if one factors in the fact that not all those headshots will interrupt in order to get that interrupt applied one has to get past an extra boon called stability which something lie Shadwoshot, Unload or an AA attack does not have to concern itself with this.

The damage is fine. The skill is fine. By design the thief was made so that they can use the same skill several times in a row. That is what makes them dangerous and that also has downsides that can be seen as a weakness.

Ash.8127:

try waiting for wasted ini when he got 1 till 2 other pi-thieves taking turns headshotting and AAing you. besides unless u have pulsing stab he will just steal it …

1 or two other thieves helping out? How is that different then trying to cleanse conditions when there two enemy rotating their Condi bombs or different then two warriors Stun locking you?

If you want to argue a given skill too powerful, you can not usee the context of being outnumbered by two or more of an enemy using said skill because were this the case there a whole lot of things that could be deemed OP.

babazhook.6805:

Ash.8127:

hey,

i feel that pulmonary impact in its current form is too strong/rewards headshotspam vs certain classes. as proven by many other threads a lot of players agree.

so here is my suggestion:
let it work similar to powerblock, i.e. it only works on interrupted skills that have a cooldown.

that way u can at least autoattack him and are not that much of a sitting duck anymore (especially on necro^^).

what do you think?

Nothing has been proven in other threads as to whether it PI to powerful. People have just expressed opinions on their matter which is different than proof. Spamming a headshot does lss overall damage then spamming an unload or spamming a shadowshot or spamming ones AA especaiily if one factors in the fact that not all those headshots will interrupt in order to get that interrupt applied one has to get past an extra boon called stability which something lie Shadwoshot, Unload or an AA attack does not have to concern itself with this.

The damage is fine. The skill is fine. By design the thief was made so that they can use the same skill several times in a row. That is what makes them dangerous and that also has downsides that can be seen as a weakness.

if you are interested in a serious discussion about this matter please read other users input properly. if u happen to be unable to comprehend the context thats another matter
in which case you should just refrain from this discussion. thanks.

babazhook.6805

1 or two other thieves helping out? How is that different then trying to cleanse conditions when there two enemy rotating their Condi bombs or different then two warriors Stun locking you?

If you want to argue a given skill too powerful, you can not usee the context of being outnumbered by two or more of an enemy using said skill because were this the case there a whole lot of things that could be deemed OP.

so in essence you say i shouldn’t expect to win bc outnumbered, sounds fair.
but thing is: it is and should be possible to win outnumbered as a decent player vs scrubs. i realize that hardcounters exist. pi is such a hardcounter for certain classes.

issue is: pi is overperforming by far in relation to skill and investment required.
should it be possible for 2 – 3 guys completely rendering an enemy useless and killing him fast by using 1 skill each and autoattacking? the enemy can either dance/run/jump/sleep etc. or try to play the game and die even faster.

so in short and especially for you, babazhook.6805: i do not think that pi is OP, i do in fact think it is overperforming in relation to the skill and investment required.

thanks for reading, have a nice weekend

Ash.8127:

babazhook.6805:

Ash.8127:

hey,

i feel that pulmonary impact in its current form is too strong/rewards headshotspam vs certain classes. as proven by many other threads a lot of players agree.

so here is my suggestion:
let it work similar to powerblock, i.e. it only works on interrupted skills that have a cooldown.

that way u can at least autoattack him and are not that much of a sitting duck anymore (especially on necro^^).

what do you think?

Nothing has been proven in other threads as to whether it PI to powerful. People have just expressed opinions on their matter which is different than proof. Spamming a headshot does lss overall damage then spamming an unload or spamming a shadowshot or spamming ones AA especaiily if one factors in the fact that not all those headshots will interrupt in order to get that interrupt applied one has to get past an extra boon called stability which something lie Shadwoshot, Unload or an AA attack does not have to concern itself with this.

The damage is fine. The skill is fine. By design the thief was made so that they can use the same skill several times in a row. That is what makes them dangerous and that also has downsides that can be seen as a weakness.

if you are interested in a serious discussion about this matter please read other users input properly. if u happen to be unable to comprehend the context thats another matter
in which case you should just refrain from this discussion. thanks.

babazhook.6805

1 or two other thieves helping out? How is that different then trying to cleanse conditions when there two enemy rotating their Condi bombs or different then two warriors Stun locking you?

If you want to argue a given skill too powerful, you can not usee the context of being outnumbered by two or more of an enemy using said skill because were this the case there a whole lot of things that could be deemed OP.

so in essence you say i shouldn’t expect to win bc outnumbered, sounds fair.
but thing is: it is and should be possible to win outnumbered as a decent player vs scrubs. i realize that hardcounters exist. pi is such a hardcounter for certain classes.

issue is: pi is overperforming by far in relation to skill and investment required.
should it be possible for 2 – 3 guys completely rendering an enemy useless and killing him fast by using 1 skill each and autoattacking? the enemy can either dance/run/jump/sleep etc. or try to play the game and die even faster.

so in short and especially for you, babazhook.6805: i do not think that pi is OP, i do in fact think it is overperforming in relation to the skill and investment required.

thanks for reading, have a nice weekend

Three mesmers can all trait mantra of distraction. Just as with a thief selecting PI out of traits these mesmers can enhance those interrupts so that each interrupt will add things like 4 stacks of confusion, vulnerability, straight outright damage , add weakness, add stun at an extended period, immob an enemy while applying random condition and so on in some combination.

They have access to multiple interrupts off one single skill being able to trait as many as three of these interrupts per (3 is 2 less then each thief can get off headshot but this on a 12 second ICD wherein it will take longer then that to regain all of that INI and allows a mesmer to use a multitude of other skills wherein the thief locks out their others outside the AA). Those confusion stacks, the immobs and outright damage and the like generatesimilar damage to PI and where those theives now have to use AA to kill that enemy off as INI gone, those mesmers still have all of their other skills available.

This will be able to stop an enemy from doing anything even as they kills him.

How is the thief PI which is generally generated from headshot different when it comes to preventing an enemy from defending himself against three of them?

Back to the OP and idea expressed.

I do not think the idea is as bad as what some others have suggested to address PI but doubt it can be made to work in such a manner.

Power block still works on interrupting an enemy AA just as any other interrupt works against AA skills. AA skills are not immune to powerblock and are not immune to any other interrupts.

The component that does nto work is that added cooldown to the skill and it my belief this a function of the fact that AA attacks do not have Cooldowns anyways and was never intended to.

If there a change in this regard to AA attacks , then it would have to be one that across the board, that being AA is not subject to interrupts of ANY type and from ANY source. You just can not pick out a single thief skill.

Added to that I can not do my AA stuff with confusion stacks on me either without taking damage. In order to be consistent (we shoudl at least be able to AA without being worried about taking damage that will kill us) the confusion should not work on AA either.

Ash.8127:

babazhook.6805:

Ash.8127:

hey,

i feel that pulmonary impact in its current form is too strong/rewards headshotspam vs certain classes. as proven by many other threads a lot of players agree.

so here is my suggestion:
let it work similar to powerblock, i.e. it only works on interrupted skills that have a cooldown.

that way u can at least autoattack him and are not that much of a sitting duck anymore (especially on necro^^).

what do you think?

Nothing has been proven in other threads as to whether it PI to powerful. People have just expressed opinions on their matter which is different than proof. Spamming a headshot does lss overall damage then spamming an unload or spamming a shadowshot or spamming ones AA especaiily if one factors in the fact that not all those headshots will interrupt in order to get that interrupt applied one has to get past an extra boon called stability which something lie Shadwoshot, Unload or an AA attack does not have to concern itself with this.

The damage is fine. The skill is fine. By design the thief was made so that they can use the same skill several times in a row. That is what makes them dangerous and that also has downsides that can be seen as a weakness.

if you are interested in a serious discussion about this matter please read other users input properly. if u happen to be unable to comprehend the context thats another matter
in which case you should just refrain from this discussion. thanks.

OP, you make thread seeking discussion and then you immidiately try to shut down someone that gives you different opinion than yours? Nice move.

Babazhook is right, people only complain here about PI and nobody really gave good explanation’s why it’s op, if it really is op. Know why is that? Because it isn’t really op. Some autoattacks hit harder that PI.
PI comes at a cost and is never guaranteed damage (it also comes at a cost of giving up on very good condi cleanse in same trait tier). If someone would somehow manage to calculate the average of the damage it does (counting all the hits and misses as well as calculating in the cost) I’m sure the damage wouldn’t be nearly as impressive as many people here on forum try to make it look like.

But if enough people open threads about it in frustration after getting killed by PI, I’m sure eventually you’ll get your nerfs passed and PI will become yet another skill that nobody will take because there’s much better alternative in the same tier.

For you OP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkodTydUR0E

babazhook.6805:

Nothing has been proven in other threads as to whether it PI to powerful. People have just expressed opinions on their matter which is different than proof. Spamming a headshot does lss overall damage then spamming an unload or spamming a shadowshot or spamming ones AA especaiily if one factors in the fact that not all those headshots will interrupt in order to get that interrupt applied one has to get past an extra boon called stability which something lie Shadwoshot, Unload or an AA attack does not have to concern itself with this.

The damage is fine. The skill is fine. By design the thief was made so that they can use the same skill several times in a row. That is what makes them dangerous and that also has downsides that can be seen as a weakness.

Weird arguments…

Shadowshot brings you in melee range of your target. Unload is a telegraphed, channeled skill.

The traited Headshot is not fine, not for 4 initiative.

It interrupts, deals 5k damage (Sigill of Draining), heals for 1k (Sigill of Draining) and can be spammed.

The interrupt alone is fine for 4 initiative. All that other stuff the traited skill does is worth at least 6 initiative or a 5 second internal cooldown.

People defending Pulmonary Impact in its current state never speak about the fact that interrupting a key skill like a heal may destroy your opponent.

And on top of that you now want 3 stacks of 5k damage just because your target autoattacked or tried to heal.

KrHome.1920:

babazhook.6805:

Nothing has been proven in other threads as to whether it PI to powerful. People have just expressed opinions on their matter which is different than proof. Spamming a headshot does lss overall damage then spamming an unload or spamming a shadowshot or spamming ones AA especaiily if one factors in the fact that not all those headshots will interrupt in order to get that interrupt applied one has to get past an extra boon called stability which something lie Shadwoshot, Unload or an AA attack does not have to concern itself with this.

The damage is fine. The skill is fine. By design the thief was made so that they can use the same skill several times in a row. That is what makes them dangerous and that also has downsides that can be seen as a weakness.

Weird arguments…

Shadowshot brings you in melee range of your target. Unload is a telegraphed, channeled skill.

The traited Headshot is not fine, not for 4 initiative.

It interrupts, deals 5k damage (Sigill of Draining), heals for 1k (Sigill of Draining) and can be spammed.

The interrupt alone is fine for 4 initiative. All that other stuff the traited skill does is worth at least 6 initiative or a 5 second internal cooldown.

People defending Pulmonary Impact in its current state never speak about the fact that interrupting a key skill like a heal may destroy your opponent.

And on top of that you now want 3 stacks of 5k damage just because your target autoattacked or tried to heal.

Hardly “wierd arguments” at all. Shadowshot hits for its damage even if there no interrupt. Shadowshot can crit. Shadowshot being able to put you in melee range as it hits for that damage which can be followed up by the AA makes it a very powerful skill and it even adds a blind.

Stability can not affect shadowshot or unload.

Since we are talking about “5k Pis” we are talking about light armor given against heavy armor it less then half of that. I can generate 7k easily on shadowshot against light. I can generate 16k unloads against light this from range and stacking might. Neither of those require an interrupt and neither of those have to peel stability first.
There no way you can argue “spamming headshot” is more effective at dealing damage

As another pointed out above , Headshot wihout an interrupt is next to no damage and a number of headshots made go to waste because nothing is interrupted. I can not recall the last time my warrior was affected by a headshot. A number of other classes also have high access to stability and with boon share , its effectivness plummets in group fights.

The only profession against headshot can really be spammed to any great effect is the Necro. That because they have lower stability access, are slow moving , and have so many tells and long cast times on skills. That is an issue with Necro versus thief and that not a PI is op issue.

As to those other skills being “easy to read” the op mentioned 3 persons using headshot in turn for lockdown. So if three thieves are using Unload from range, what exactly are you going to do?

To your interrupts. I have already illustrated how a Mesmer can do the same thing and can in fact trait their interrupts to do far more “things” then can a headshot , everything from confusion stacks to immobs and vuln adds, from raw damage to long stuns. They can have three of these every 12 seconds and their interrupts can interrupt heals even as confusion stacks and those other things added.

Added to that they can trait for these interrupts to have AOE effects which will hit other nearby opponents. They too can use sigil of draining.

My warrior can trait consecutive interrupts off virtually every Utility skill and can also generate 2 added interrupts off the weapon set he has chosen. He can generate AOE interrupts as well that can trigger sigil of draining multiple times. While PI needs the interrupt to do damage , most of my warrior skills do the damage upfront meaning if no interrupt made, the damage still taken.

Headbutt , Skull grinder , pommel bash shield smash , gun flame can all generate interrupts and deliver far more damage as can stomp , kick wild blow and others and many of the cooldowns are low with the added benefit that the damage occurs before that interrupt and the damage can crit.

PI damage can not compare to this.

It is a skill that punishes poor play and has dozens of counters. Its base damage is strong but it cannot crit making its total DPS weak on most thieves. Coupled with Draining Sigil (which also cannot crit) it hits for upwards of 5k on power builds. It compares poorly to a single Unload, Vault, or Backstab with crits in the mix. Sadly a full rotation of dagger AA is stronger and that is before crits.

So if you or any of your friends are dying to Head Shot spam, it is a “learn to counter” issue. Typically stopping the auto attack from being an auto is the first step.