Guild Wars 2

and put weapons on cool down like everyone else.

thanks!

Lol arnt you the same guy on ranger forums asking for more stealth……….

No.

/15chars

Splatter Paw.7238:

Lol arnt you the same guy on ranger forums asking for more stealth……….

not the swagger who posted on the ranger forums asking for more stealth. /waves hand like a jedi

Yeah, let’s remove thief’s only real unique mechanic because the damage coefficients on the vast majority of thief skills are significantly lower than, or require multiple hits to be larger than the coefficients of other skills, or, in the case of skills like Larcenous Strike, are chained.

Let’s remove Sword thief’s main source of condition removal, thief’s mobility, because we can’t handle a resource system that encourages players not so much to spam all of their skills, but (in a perfect game where all thief skills were usable, which unfortunately is not the case for many thief builds) to resourcefully use skills tactically and positionally in order to grab an advantage that can be used strategically for a crushing win.

Let’s nerf stealth, damage, skill, mobility, condition removal, boon countering, evasion as a sole source of damage mitigation, condition application (which is already virtually nonexistent), skill, flanking ability… Heck, if such terrible ideas as these actually pass, then this game will arguably become one of the worst-balanced games ever.

Thief suffers greatly for having initiative- it lacks defensive mechanisms, high damage coefficients, decent condition application and removal, team support… Among other things.

Believe it or not, not everybody wants to play a faceroll class, and removing initiative would not only destroy thief but it would permanently remove any remaining thoughts of how much “skill” this game requires.

No.

Hah. How about we go on your forums and demand rangers DPS and conditions can only be applied through their pets, and to make every ranger skill a root?

There’s your answer.

@Arganthium
One upon time I played LoL, and your post reminded me of idiots who cried about every single next champion in development, how they would be OP, without data of multipliers on skills, and pretty much half of the info about them.

Full CD thief wouldn’t be the best idea, but hybrid CD/energy, something like in WoW or Forge, would be a way to consider. This would buff weapon swap combos (which are almost non-existant), and allow to have more powerful abilities in place of junk like dancing dagger or LDB.

I am not against full initiative system, but this we have now is too taxing and lacks the promised depth. Pretty sure it could be fixed some other way around without making too drastic changes, but at the moment I have no idea how.

If they put skills on CD they would have to majorly buff every single weapon skill thieves have

The Ini system is the reason I prefer the thief over all other classes. It makes the thief much more immersive.

No.

Cynz.9437:

If they put skills on CD they would have to majorly buff every single weapon skill thieves have

No they wouldn’t. A few more HP would be better.

Yes, remove the Initiatives as the main resource for skills. Instead, use the Initiative for a finishing move, like how Warrior’s adrenaline is. However, unlike the Warrior’s adrenaline, when we trigger Initiative (F2 maybe), our weapon skills don’t have cool down for 15s. The Init bar to fills up at the current rate, but only useable when it’s 100% full.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Hah. How about we go on your forums and demand rangers DPS and conditions can only be applied through their pets, and to make every ranger skill a root?

There’s your answer.

I have a thief too, so I know first hand that it would be a good change overall and the first step to better balancing classes for our great horizontal progression journey. You’ll thank me later for this awesome suggestion.

Let’s say you use CnD and actually land it (which not gonna happend vs good opponent), now you can use backstab.. and then what? Auto attack… that is all that is left because every other spell is pointless to use untill at least 25% HP

Let’s assume you play d/p, BP + HS, got stealth got backstab off… can’t blind anything anymore nor do any dmg outside of AA.

I honestly don’t see how it is good idea to simply remove ini and slap CDs on spells w/o modifiying them actually.

I can go roll an engi right now and say, yes i have an engi too therefore any nerf i suggest for engis is a good suggestion.

Horrible idea without suggesting viable alternatives to changing pretty much every skill in the weapon skills kitten nal.

Yes please. Other classes that have attacks that do high damage (5k+) are on 10-20 second cool downs. Final thrust, hundred blades (6 seconds? dafeq), ranger LB channel attack, ele fire grab, and so on. This isn’t the case for thieves. Initiative does act as a pseudo-cooldown, but it’s much shorter, especially given all of the traits that boost initiative regen (opportunist, signet use, infusion of shadow, patience, quick pockets, quick recovery, klepto, preparedness, etc..). with the +3 initiative trait, you can use heartseeker 5 times in a row and then one or two seconds later you can use it again, before needing to rebuild initiative. This is ridiculous. Even more so that HS damage actually increases the lower the target is (the more you use it).

There are skills that can be buffed if initiative was removed (death blossom, dancing dagger (even tho it was nerfed), and some others.. really all pistol skills besides unload). Thief players are just so used to being able to spam abilities that it is literally inconceivable that they would ever remove initiative.

Perma stealth isn’t even the problem, it’s the fact that you can still deal ridiculous damage (at LEAST 8k in your usual c+d bs combo) reliably. Being able to do this more than once in at least 10 seconds isn’t okay. Initiative regen needs to be chopped in half or by 75% and the power of most skills buffed, otherwise it needs to go.

Any thief who cares about their class will stop replying and let this thread die. It’s not happening, OP.

Spicyhash.7605:

Yes please. Other classes that have attacks that do high damage (5k+) are on 10-20 second cool downs. Final thrust, hundred blades (6 seconds? dafeq), ranger LB channel attack, ele fire grab, and so on. This isn’t the case for thieves. Initiative does act as a pseudo-cooldown, but it’s much shorter, especially given all of the traits that boost initiative regen (opportunist, signet use, infusion of shadow, patience, quick pockets, quick recovery, klepto, preparedness, etc..). with the +3 initiative trait, you can use heartseeker 5 times in a row and then one or two seconds later you can use it again, before needing to rebuild initiative. This is ridiculous. Even more so that HS damage actually increases the lower the target is (the more you use it).

There are skills that can be buffed if initiative was removed (death blossom, dancing dagger (even tho it was nerfed), and some others.. really all pistol skills besides unload). Thief players are just so used to being able to spam abilities that it is literally inconceivable that they would ever remove initiative.

Perma stealth isn’t even the problem, it’s the fact that you can still deal ridiculous damage (at LEAST 8k in your usual c+d bs combo) reliably. Being able to do this more than once in at least 10 seconds isn’t okay. Initiative regen needs to be chopped in half or by 75% and the power of most skills buffed, otherwise it needs to go.

you are wise as you are spicy! my vote is that it needs to go so there can be some growth and development in other areas. each profession needs help, but specifically for the thief, taking away the initiative crutch is the best start.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Any thief who cares about their class will stop replying and let this thread die. It’s not happening, OP.

What you’re really saying is, “I’d prefer professions, including thief, remain stagnant so don’t contribute to a topic that tackles real balance and growth preventing issues.”.

Spicyhash.7605:

Yes please. Other classes that have attacks that do high damage (5k+) are on 10-20 second cool downs. Final thrust, hundred blades (6 seconds? dafeq), ranger LB channel attack, ele fire grab, and so on. This isn’t the case for thieves. Initiative does act as a pseudo-cooldown, but it’s much shorter, especially given all of the traits that boost initiative regen (opportunist, signet use, infusion of shadow, patience, quick pockets, quick recovery, klepto, preparedness, etc..). with the +3 initiative trait, you can use heartseeker 5 times in a row and then one or two seconds later you can use it again, before needing to rebuild initiative. This is ridiculous. Even more so that HS damage actually increases the lower the target is (the more you use it).

There are skills that can be buffed if initiative was removed (death blossom, dancing dagger (even tho it was nerfed), and some others.. really all pistol skills besides unload). Thief players are just so used to being able to spam abilities that it is literally inconceivable that they would ever remove initiative.

Perma stealth isn’t even the problem, it’s the fact that you can still deal ridiculous damage (at LEAST 8k in your usual c+d bs combo) reliably. Being able to do this more than once in at least 10 seconds isn’t okay. Initiative regen needs to be chopped in half or by 75% and the power of most skills buffed, otherwise it needs to go.

This isn’t a fair analysis, for a few reasons.

1) You haven’t factored in the revealed mechanic. In WvW, a backstab thief can chain a CnD->backstab every 4 seconds, and that’s assuming you sit there and let him do it. Taking into account moving targets, the need to regen health/initiative before the next attack, dodging CC, CnD missing etc., the time between bursts rises with each action. It’s not like you can spam that combo without thought, and if you do so you’ll likely get killed.

2) You haven’t looked at the downsides of initiative. If, for example, a warrior uses all his cool downs on greatsword, he can swap weapon and have a fresh set of skills ready. If a thief uses all his initiative before he swaps weapon, he can’t do anything other than auto attack until his initiative regenerates. The Dec 10th patch also nerfed most of the initiative regain traits, meaning we are more dependant on the passive regen. Even though this has been buffed, it still increases the time between bursts for many builds, and makes it more difficult to recover from a mistake.

3) Most thief builds are based around a couple of attacks, be it backstab, flanking strikes, whatever, because there is usually only a couple of high damage skills on a particular set. In comparison, most other classes have multiple hard hitting abilities on the same set, with the ability to swap weapons and have a fresh set of skills. The cool down on a specific warrior burst skill compared with thief is thus less relevant than the number of burst skills/combos available to the warrior. If this warrior manages his cool downs properly, he can burst just as frequently as a thief, if not more so, and be less predictable whilst doing it. And, if a skill misses, the warrior’s ability to use his other skills is not affected, unlike the thief.

Swagger.1459:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Any thief who cares about their class will stop replying and let this thread die. It’s not happening, OP.

What you’re really saying is, “I’d prefer professions, including thief, remain stagnant so don’t contribute to a topic that tackles real balance and growth preventing issues.”.

That’s not what he’s saying, and that’s not what this topic does. Your original post reads more like “He’s got something I don’t have, we should have the same so fix it”, and you don’t even bother to give reasons for the change that would benefit the class or the game as a whole. Either you’re a troll, or you have no understanding of how thief actually works. Whichever it is, until you have something constructive to say, please keep it to yourself

Swagger.1459:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Any thief who cares about their class will stop replying and let this thread die. It’s not happening, OP.

What you’re really saying is, “I’d prefer professions, including thief, remain stagnant so don’t contribute to a topic that tackles real balance and growth preventing issues.”.

You fail to see the sarcasm on this thread.

i mean really i want to see my thief rolling around in a wheel chair lol . ill come rolling up to u in wvw and hit u with my staff after u get rid of the sword dagger pistol and short bow. than the staff can have 2 skills one to hit u with and one so i can stand up out of my wheel chair for 10 secs XD… o wait 10 secs that would be op 5

NO .

AND

NO

lol sarcasm

Swagger.1459:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Any thief who cares about their class will stop replying and let this thread die. It’s not happening, OP.

What you’re really saying is, “I’d prefer professions, including thief, remain stagnant so don’t contribute to a topic that tackles real balance and growth preventing issues.”.

Why not get rid of deathshroud then? It’s been there since launch. How about clones? I mean it’s just spam clones then wait and maybe shatter them. So stagnant. Until they get rid of these there’s no way they can truly address balance.

Good troll. /wave byeeee

I’m going to warrant this with a serious response despite knowing it doesn’t deserve one.

Anyway, I too used to think that Thieves suffered because of Initiative and were poorly balanced because of it.

After all, all of our weapon-skills have to be balanced around the assumption that they can be used consecutively, whereas cooldowns can’t. I felt that made Thieves simplistic and spammy because every build just evolved around spaming the most effective move.

And while that’s true, cooldowns are far more brainless. Rotate cooldowns, switch weapons, rotate more cooldowns, rise and repeat is what other classes come down to. It’s dumber and less involving than Initiative.

In fact I think now that all classes would probably benefit a great deal from having a resource similar to Initiative.

At least when you dodge a Thief’s Cloak and Dagger today you know he’s in serious trouble. With any other class they’ll just switch weapons and continue spaming.