Guild Wars 2

It’s obvious that there’s talks about reverting the 4s revealed back to 3s at least in pve. It killed the smooth feeling the d/d build had in pve and takes me (and many others) right out of the game when they have to fight with the god awful feel of the once magnificent weapon combo. It’s not nearly as noticeable in pvp or wvw but if feels like the character just doesn’t know how to chain their own attacks anymore.

I’d just like to know what could possibly be the counter argument to keeping 4s revealed in pve? Already confirmed that it isn’t wvw or pvp being the problem (not like they even feel this nerf). A game mod already said they were able and possibly willing (and to a degree already have) to make those 3 separate for necessary balancing purposes.

Lastly, why is last refuge still a mandatory trait to have if you want shadow arts? It’s a 5 point trait (in a trait line designed to keep you alive) that actively gets you killed 10x more often than it saves you. In 1 day of pvp I counted to see how much it would save me and how many times it tried to kill me. I finished with over 20 times the trait would either instantly reveal me (usually as I’m trying to cnd or hs through smoke). The amount of times it helped me? 2. It helped me twice. Once when I was stealing the enemy team’s creature. It stealthed me as I shadow stepped away so they didn’t know which way I went. Other times I was cc’d so I couldn’t activate my own stealth and I was ranged before that so I didn’t already have revealed up.

Something as simple as 1 stack of confusion on stealth would be q274289q748 times better. Would help deter people from auto attack spamming the air to try and find you but still wouldn’t do anything to stop anyone if they actually knew where to look for you.

Most mods are ignoring talking about thieves like it’s the plague. It’s almost as though they know they messed up but feel if they stick their head in the dirt problem will just go away. All the information I got from mods so far I’ve had to bait them in other, less populated parts of the forums. It’s cool that you have the forums, but it doesn’t mean anything if the serious topics and issues aren’t even getting responses. It’s almost always only personal achievement posts that get looked at to make sure no one was cheating or troll posts that warrant another troll response.

Sorry for long/end rant

I have a thief and being revealed for 4 seconds instead of 3 did nothing to me. I still can fight just as well as I did before. I did go for less op pistol pistol setup though.
When I go to wvw and see all the backstabbing thieves… Thieves do need balancing and 1 extra second of revealed is not a major nerf.

lol, having a thief and playing a thief are 2 very different things. If that 1s revealed did nothing to you then you really aren’t playing the class right at all. No matter how you play you should be taking advantage of the stealth bonus skill.

Lastly, the topic of 4v3s revealed is for pve only. Didn’t say anything about wvw there. Last refuge on the other hand, that’s just an overall awful skill that needs replacing.

In pvp and wvw, there’s nothing wrong with the 4s revealed, a nerf was needed for wvw thieves although we got the wrong nerf. Revealed on stealth exit would have been a better nerf though as it affects the target group and fights against the stealth cheesing in wvw.

randomfightfan.4091:

lol, having a thief and playing a thief are 2 very different things. If that 1s revealed did nothing to you then you really aren’t playing the class right at all. No matter how you play you should be taking advantage of the stealth bonus skill.

Lastly, the topic of 4v3s revealed is for pve only. Didn’t say anything about wvw there. Last refuge on the other hand, that’s just an overall awful skill that needs replacing.

In pvp and wvw, there’s nothing wrong with the 4s revealed, a nerf was needed for wvw thieves although we got the wrong nerf. Revealed on stealth exit would have been a better nerf though as it affects the target group and fights against the stealth cheesing in wvw.

I am taking advantage of stealth and I invested somewhere around 200 hours into my thief. That 1 extra second is NOT much of a nerf.

from the sounds of it then you’re a condi thief who doesn’t break your stealth. For d/d, d/p, or s/d thief, it throws off the timing immensely. For p/d thief, it makes forcing the most defensive thief combo stay in harms way 33% longer before being able to do your 1 strong move again.

randomfightfan.4091:

from the sounds of it then you’re a condi thief who doesn’t break your stealth. For d/d, d/p, or s/d thief, it throws off the timing immensely. For p/d thief, it makes forcing the most defensive thief combo stay in harms way 33% longer before being able to do your 1 strong move again.

nope, not a condi thief at all. A power based p/p thief with sneak attack being my major damaging ability. And guess what? I can still deal with doing that every 4 seconds instead of 3 without it having a major impact on my damage or gameplay.

You just said d/p thief with unload being your major damaging ability. I don’t think you know what d/p means or if you even know what a stealth based build is. You are a p/p thief who only uses stealth as a defensive perk. If you were d/p, you would be using bp-hs-bs-aa rotation>repeat (now bp-hs-bs-aa rotation, dual strike again (worst part about the rotation) then bp-hs-etc.)

You are NOT an offensive invis thief so this thread doesn’t concern you. Also other thieves shouldn’t need to convert to your build because it’s in many ways, subpar. No aoe and even with the new clumsy feeling of d/d or d/p, still deals more dps than p/p.

randomfightfan.4091:

You just said d/p thief with unload being your major damaging ability. I don’t think you know what d/p means or if you even know what a stealth based build is. You are a p/p thief who only uses stealth as a defensive perk. If you were d/p, you would be using bp-hs-bs-aa rotation>repeat (now bp-hs-bs-aa rotation, dual strike again (worst part about the rotation) then bp-hs-etc.)

You are NOT an offensive invis thief so this thread doesn’t concern you. Also other thieves shouldn’t need to convert to your build because it’s in many ways, subpar. No aoe and even with the new clumsy feeling of d/d or d/p, still deals more dps than p/p.

sorry for the typo bro, I still need my coffee, it’s morning here and all. I need that stealth for damage. I can put on a hell of a lot of vulnerability and sneak attack for massive damage. I didn’t say to convert to my build. All I said that 3s to 4s is not a major nerf.
Edit: typos typos typos, I should get coffee now.

Can not say I have noticed the difference either. Revealed is revealed… probably just adapted my play style without noticing.

hildegain.2106:

Sorry but BIG difference between using a skill to it’s potential and abusing something. That’s like saying a warrior shouldn’t be using 100 blades every time they can cause that’s just abusing the skill.

randomfightfan.4091:

Sorry but BIG difference between using a skill to it’s potential and abusing something. That’s like saying a warrior shouldn’t be using 100 blades every time they can cause that’s just abusing the skill.

nope, actually you were the only class that you spam your burst skill, therefore it got nerfed. You can still do steady dps with all of your other skills.

Mirta.5029:

nope, actually you were the only class that you spam your burst skill, therefore it got nerfed. You can still do steady dps with all of your other skills.

what other skills? Death blossom? lol, dancing dagger? that’s less dmg than double strike. CnD? 6 ini to NOT use the stealth? Hs over 50%? Not worth it. Headshot? just lol.

We can still spam our burst skill but only after the rest of the team has gotten the target real low for us.

The only possible choices for a dps thief is ambush trap and thieves guild (both are utilities with faily high cds) which neither rely on being melee or range and both have a high tendency of getting owned quickly by bosses.

I’m not going to force myself to go ranged and lose dps just because my melee damage now feels clunky. Cluster bomb and unload are both good but not worth using if you can effectively melee the boss

Mirta.5029:

randomfightfan.4091:

lol, having a thief and playing a thief are 2 very different things. If that 1s revealed did nothing to you then you really aren’t playing the class right at all. No matter how you play you should be taking advantage of the stealth bonus skill.

Lastly, the topic of 4v3s revealed is for pve only. Didn’t say anything about wvw there. Last refuge on the other hand, that’s just an overall awful skill that needs replacing.

In pvp and wvw, there’s nothing wrong with the 4s revealed, a nerf was needed for wvw thieves although we got the wrong nerf. Revealed on stealth exit would have been a better nerf though as it affects the target group and fights against the stealth cheesing in wvw.

I am taking advantage of stealth and I invested somewhere around 200 hours into my thief. That 1 extra second is NOT much of a nerf.

So over 1k damage loss is not much?
Cool.

Rizzy.8293:

Mirta.5029:

randomfightfan.4091:

lol, having a thief and playing a thief are 2 very different things. If that 1s revealed did nothing to you then you really aren’t playing the class right at all. No matter how you play you should be taking advantage of the stealth bonus skill.

Lastly, the topic of 4v3s revealed is for pve only. Didn’t say anything about wvw there. Last refuge on the other hand, that’s just an overall awful skill that needs replacing.

In pvp and wvw, there’s nothing wrong with the 4s revealed, a nerf was needed for wvw thieves although we got the wrong nerf. Revealed on stealth exit would have been a better nerf though as it affects the target group and fights against the stealth cheesing in wvw.

I am taking advantage of stealth and I invested somewhere around 200 hours into my thief. That 1 extra second is NOT much of a nerf.

So over 1k damage loss is not much?
Cool.

over 1k damage loss of your burst skill that you could previously spam, hence it got nerfed. You still output as much damage as a warrior.

Holy I don’t even know which of my messages got deleted just now but 2 of my posts were deleted due to them being replies to posts that got infracted and deleted.

Just reposting this link in case it got deleted and since it has some very valid points that back up my argument that the 2 most vocal repliers seem to be ignoring.

I want to say that I wouldn’t mind keeping 4s revealed IF they added an extra auto attack into the chain to give us back our sense of grace, the lost damage, and to stop forcing us to either 1. do an entire 2nd aa rotation before backstabbing again and losing out on a lot of dps or 2. doing 1 full rotation, double strike, wild strike (or back off for a bit to cnd faster), cnd backstab to have some higher dps (still lower than when we had 3s revealed ofc) but making it so you almost never have poison on your target.

read this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Feedback-from-the-Patch-Note/first#post1815979

the short of it is pve thieves lost the gracefulness of the rotation and 15-20% overall dps (backed up by math!!!)

Mirta.5029:

over 1k damage loss of your burst skill that you could previously spam, hence it got nerfed. You still output as much damage as a warrior.

I’ve seen warriors (who share a very similar build as most power thieves) dish out 46k damage in 1 hundred blades with 4300 autos. That’s also in an aoe. If I had my team giving me 25 stacks of might (unlike warrior, I can’t stack it myself) and they being nice enough to put 25 stacks of vuln on the boss (unlike warrior, I can’t stack it myself), maybe then I could be somewhat close to having the same damage as a warrior. As it is though, it’s not even remotely close. I can get (depending on the boss) 10k backstabs and 2500 autos. That’s no where close to warrior. What we had going for ourselves what the extra conditions, the good initial burst, great ability to take down certain structures, and higher than warrior dps ONCE THE TARGET IS BELLOW 25% HP and assuming we all have the same level of might stacks.

Another thing I forgot to mention is when I lay down smoke screen, I could get 3 backstabs off using the smoke field IF I used it right. Now, no matter what, I get 2. Before with pistol 5, I could get 2 invis hs out of it. Now, no matter what, I get 1. There are many more points to this where the 1s revealed threw off the timing and fluidity of our skills but as you said it’s early and I too haven’t had my coffee.

randomfightfan.4091:

Mirta.5029:

over 1k damage loss of your burst skill that you could previously spam, hence it got nerfed. You still output as much damage as a warrior.

I’ve seen warriors (who share a very similar build as most power thieves) dish out 46k damage in 1 hundred blades with 4300 autos. That’s also in an aoe. If I had my team giving me 25 stacks of might (unlike warrior, I can’t stack it myself) and they being nice enough to put 25 stacks of vuln on the boss (unlike warrior, I can’t stack it myself), maybe then I could be somewhat close to having the same damage as a warrior. As it is though, it’s not even remotely close. I can get (depending on the boss) 10k backstabs and 2500 autos. That’s no where close to warrior. What we had going for ourselves what the extra conditions, the good initial burst, great ability to take down certain structures, and higher than warrior dps ONCE THE TARGET IS BELLOW 25% HP and assuming we all have the same level of might stacks.

Another thing I forgot to mention is when I lay down smoke screen, I could get 3 backstabs off using the smoke field IF I used it right. Now, no matter what, I get 2. Before with pistol 5, I could get 2 invis hs out of it. Now, no matter what, I get 1. There are many more points to this where the 1s revealed threw off the timing and fluidity of our skills but as you said it’s early and I too haven’t had my coffee.

no you haven’t. 25 stacks of might, 26k damage maximum to any mob of the same level as themselves. That’s in full besekers gear and power build.
Backstab does 14K damage or so, you can do 2 backstabs in the time it takes 100 blades to recharge.

Return revealed to 3 sec but introduce the revealed when coming out of stealth, regardless of whether you attacked or not!

Mirta.5029:

no you haven’t. 25 stacks of might, 26k damage maximum to any mob of the same level as themselves. That’s in full besekers gear and power build.
Backstab does 14K damage or so, you can do 2 backstabs in the time it takes 100 blades to recharge.

LOL!!! this guy telling me what I have seen before.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/59489/BEST_DPS.jpg

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/57522/gw178_1363135923.jpg

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9246/gw331p.jpg

I guess I was shooting a little low when I said 46k… I don’t know what you’re doing to only get 26k but you’re doing it wrong.

Remember in the 32k screen, the guy was only effective lvl 75

Add in the fact that a thief can only just get in 2 backstabs in the same period and to do so requires either burning utilities or using up 12 initiative leaving us with just autoattacks while the 100b warrior has 3 more weapon skills on the greatsword alone and 4 more on his second weapon.

randomfightfan.4091:

Mirta.5029:

no you haven’t. 25 stacks of might, 26k damage maximum to any mob of the same level as themselves. That’s in full besekers gear and power build.
Backstab does 14K damage or so, you can do 2 backstabs in the time it takes 100 blades to recharge.

LOL!!! this guy telling me what I have seen before.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/59489/BEST_DPS.jpg

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/57522/gw178_1363135923.jpg

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9246/gw331p.jpg

I guess I was shooting a little low when I said 46k… I don’t know what you’re doing to only get 26k but you’re doing it wrong.

Remember in the 32k screen, the guy was only effective lvl 75

and how did you manage it without hacking?

randomfightfan.4091:

Mirta.5029:

randomfightfan.4091:

Mirta.5029:

no you haven’t. 25 stacks of might, 26k damage maximum to any mob of the same level as themselves. That’s in full besekers gear and power build.
Backstab does 14K damage or so, you can do 2 backstabs in the time it takes 100 blades to recharge.

LOL!!! this guy telling me what I have seen before.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/59489/BEST_DPS.jpg

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/57522/gw178_1363135923.jpg

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9246/gw331p.jpg

I guess I was shooting a little low when I said 46k… I don’t know what you’re doing to only get 26k but you’re doing it wrong.

Remember in the 32k screen, the guy was only effective lvl 75

and how did you manage it without hacking?

woops, errored when i posted the 1st time, 2nd post had nothign… ill restart.

None of those wars used curry so they could have had 100 more prec and 10% crit dmg. They achieved those numbers by doing exactly what you posted. They also have good traits (idk what, don’t play war so don’t ask me). If I say something it’s because I know what I’m talking about. If I wasn’t so certain, I wouldn’t have said it. If you still think I’m trash/dumb/w.e, just youtube me. I’m going to take a step back right now as I’m tired of arguing my points with people who don’t have enough context to warrant having an opinion (no offence intended to those who participated in a healthy debate/discussion, I’m mostly just refering to the guy who raged at me since the beginning and raged some more when all of his posts got infracted).

I didn’t rage at you, I told you that your complaint fails and that got me infracted (and yet you didn’t yet get infracted for all the rudeness in your posts.

Sorry bro, but you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about and I’ve been around with thieves since day one, you have very little information on how much knowledge I’ve garnered on thieves and yet you see fit to insult me without knowing anything.

Like I said, the 1 second cooldown add-on is barely a nerf but it was one that was needed from a balance stand-point.

uhm what i see in this discussion,

mirta is a p/p spec who does not rely heavily on stealth, since his sneek attack will be activated using long cooldown utilities

any spec using heavy stealth using weapon skills is heavily affected since their muscle memory of doing things is ruined.

any skills using mechanical functioning like hand and eye coordination, a little off balance is HUGELY noticeable,

eg, in musical score if you mess up with the metronome you are screwed, and screwing the whole orchestra, since an adept maestro and listener will definitely notice it

hildegain.2106:

My rudeness was based on points in the topic and were in an an attempt to reply to (what I felt as) an equally rude response. Your rudeness was done for the sake of being rude. Calling someone bad and how terrible they are, they trying to make fun of them then insulting their intelligence has nothing to do with the topic… All this without even knowing the person either! That is why you were infracted and I was not. I agree I shouldn’t have went off as you did but you made a significant bigger fool of yourself when you posted those spiteful comments than I ever did.

But as many other have stated before me, the stealth timer change is a timing and dps nerf. Throws off everything a stealth focused thief has worked hard to work into their system. There is no argue against that. The timing change to something that is HIGHLY dependant on timing is a massive wrench to our rotation. This coupled with more downtime on poison (if you want max dps) or just having the feeling of having to go through the useless double strike a 2nd time in 1 cnd rotation, it just doesn’t feel right. If you are a stealth centred thief (a guy who takes advantage of the unique aspects of their class) this change affects you in a HUGE way.

Lastly, I 100% agree that thief needed a nerf in wvw, but 1s longer reveal did not affect thief in wvw. Said that multiple times but for w/e reason, you don’t seem to be hearing it.

Mirta.5029:

I have a thief and being revealed for 4 seconds instead of 3 did nothing to me. I still can fight just as well as I did before. I did go for less op pistol pistol setup though.
When I go to wvw and see all the backstabbing thieves… Thieves do need balancing and 1 extra second of revealed is not a major nerf.

I have a s/d thief and the change completely destroyed the playstyle. I don’t build as a walking ‘opener’ and don’t roam in WvW ganking people. What I enjoy with the thief is a natural flowing playstyle. The change destroyed it completely. It’s now feels clunky and like I’m fighting with the profession as much as I’m fighting against the target. For me, it has nothing to do with major or minor nerf—it’s about a playstyle that felt natural and flowed. That fun playstyle has been removed from the game.

Oldgrimm.8521:

uhm what i see in this discussion,

mirta is a p/p spec who does not rely heavily on stealth, since his sneek attack will be activated using long cooldown utilities

any spec using heavy stealth using weapon skills is heavily affected since their muscle memory of doing things is ruined.

any skills using mechanical functioning like hand and eye coordination, a little off balance is HUGELY noticeable,

eg, in musical score if you mess up with the metronome you are screwed, and screwing the whole orchestra, since an adept maestro and listener will definitely notice it

A nice illumination here. The one aspect of concern is the messing with muscle memory which implies that you can retrain. Here, for me, the flow is gone. I guess I could get used to there being no flow, but there still would be no flow. In other words, the thrill is gone.

A successful element of class design has been removed from the game. It’s the exact wrong way, 180 degrees, to go about class balance. Far better to work towards extending success to all classes rather than removing it from the game as a problem.

Mirta.5029:

I have a thief and being revealed for 4 seconds instead of 3 did nothing to me. I still can fight just as well as I did before. I did go for less op pistol pistol setup though.
When I go to wvw and see all the backstabbing thieves… Thieves do need balancing and 1 extra second of revealed is not a major nerf.

Being Revealed for 4s v 3s is not a good thing.

Playing a Thief for a long time allows the player to find and fine tune their playstyle and set their rhythm. Before I have to check the status bar to see if I can stealth or not, or if I have enough initiatives or not, etc. After a while, those information becomes second nature that we, the real Thief players, can reliably expect that when we use a weapon skill that it will activate or a stealth skill that it will put us in stealth mode.

However, after the recent updates, these internal, second hand information needs to be re-learned and the timing and the rhythm was all messed up that also needs to be re-tuned. Nowadays, it becomes really frustrating when I mis-timed my stealth because Revealed is no longer 3s long and everytime it happens it leaves something bitter in my mouth. Cloak and Dagger not activating the stealth puts us in a very bad, often fatal, situation.

In your case, since your playstyle doesn’t revolve around stealth and that you are satisfied with however low your damage output is, the issue about stealth and revelead doesn’t become null just because it doesn’t affect your directly.

We’re glad to see that you are having fun with your build but you have to acknowledge that every player plays differently and you just have to respect that even a slight change in the rhythm makes a really bad playing experience.

From the Disney movie Mulan, the emperor said something with a lot of wisdom;

“A single grain can tip a scale”

So please, try not to belittle the 4s Revelead because that’s exactly what had happened, it tipped the scale against the Thief and the Thief profession is currently out of balance.

randomfightfan.4091:

hildegain.2106:

My rudeness was based on points in the topic and were in an an attempt to reply to (what I felt as) an equally rude response. Your rudeness was done for the sake of being rude. Calling someone bad and how terrible they are, they trying to make fun of them then insulting their intelligence has nothing to do with the topic… All this without even knowing the person either! That is why you were infracted and I was not. I agree I shouldn’t have went off as you did but you made a significant bigger fool of yourself when you posted those spiteful comments than I ever did.

But as many other have stated before me, the stealth timer change is a timing and dps nerf. Throws off everything a stealth focused thief has worked hard to work into their system. There is no argue against that. The timing change to something that is HIGHLY dependant on timing is a massive wrench to our rotation. This coupled with more downtime on poison (if you want max dps) or just having the feeling of having to go through the useless double strike a 2nd time in 1 cnd rotation, it just doesn’t feel right. If you are a stealth centred thief (a guy who takes advantage of the unique aspects of their class) this change affects you in a HUGE way.

Lastly, I 100% agree that thief needed a nerf in wvw, but 1s longer reveal did not affect thief in wvw. Said that multiple times but for w/e reason, you don’t seem to be hearing it.

You’ve been rude from the start, before anyone even responded to you.

“Your rudeness was done for the sake of being rude.” no it was not, I disagreed with you and told you that the re-balancing of stealth was there for a reason and that you shouldn’t be so reliant on one ability. What is so rude with that?

I didn’t insult your intelligence, I questioned it. You’re making the statement that one extra second of so-called “downtime” (which it isn’t, since that is time that you’re doing nothing at all) breaks your thief completely in PVE, this is blatantly false. You’re so-called losing about 1k damage or so per backstab, this doesn’t seem like much of a loss.

“That is why you were infracted and I was not.” “You made a bigger fool of yourself” “Spiteful comments” Almost seems to me that you’re now trying to play the “I’m innocent” card. Sorry there but my statements were in direct response to the blatantly false claims you’ve made and your already bad attitude you had since the start. “learn to adapt” and “you’re doing it wrong” are not really rude statements, they’re merely observations based on your comments.

Even for a stealth thief, I hardly see how this re-balance (that most people need to just accept and adapt to, not game-breaking at all) I don’t see it affecting anyone. Also, I’ve done the stealth thief thing, so I’m not saying this from the position of someone who hasn’t ever done it, I’m just saying that you’re not completely ruined (edited because my original word is supposedely a “swear”) in any sense and you’re now just brought down ever so slightly, it’s not a major crisis situation.

“Lastly, I 100% agree that thief needed a nerf in wvw, but 1s longer reveal did not affect thief in wvw. Said that multiple times but for w/e reason, you don’t seem to be hearing it”

I said nothing on the topic of WvW so this “not hearing it” isn’t my problem.

I doubt lobbying for warrior damage is the right way to go.

Warrior damage needs major nerfing.

100blades is 43k damage under best case scenario, but it’s actually main hand axe on warrior that outdamages warrior greatsword sustained with crazy autoattack damage. Mainhand axe for warrior auto can crit for as high as 5-6k, is faster than greatsword auto, and allows for offhand customization of skills to either bring cc or vulnerability.

Don’t ask for buffs because warrior damage is high. Warrior needs to be nerfed and it’s not good health for the game, especially PvE, when anyone can do warriors’ broken damage.

I think a buff weapons need badly is sword flanking strike. It’s REALLY bad.

Why is a pistol/pistol thief, who wouldn’t care if daggers were replaced with bananas, telling offhand dagger thieves that the change did nothing? I generally use an offhand dagger but when I use an offhand pistol I don’t worry so much about the revealed restriction either. Any time I try to put an elegant shadow arts build together it is frayed at the edge, the edge being that 4th second of reveal.

Zenith.7301:

I doubt lobbying for warrior damage is the right way to go.

Warrior damage needs major nerfing.

100blades is 43k damage under best case scenario, but it’s actually main hand axe on warrior that outdamages warrior greatsword sustained with crazy autoattack damage. Mainhand axe for warrior auto can crit for as high as 5-6k, is faster than greatsword auto, and allows for offhand customization of skills to either bring cc or vulnerability.

Don’t ask for buffs because warrior damage is high. Warrior needs to be nerfed and it’s not good health for the game, especially PvE, when anyone can do warriors’ broken damage.

I think a buff weapons need badly is sword flanking strike. It’s REALLY bad.

I wasn’t asking for buffs, just want the smooth gameplay of my class back I didn’t ask for warrior damage, it was someone else earlier who said we have warrior dps. We CAN have the 2nd highest dps but we do not have warrior dps. Other people in this thread say it a lot better than me so I’d suggest reading a few posts from this if you want to get were I’m coming from.

randomfightfan.4091:

Zenith.7301:

I doubt lobbying for warrior damage is the right way to go.

Warrior damage needs major nerfing.

100blades is 43k damage under best case scenario, but it’s actually main hand axe on warrior that outdamages warrior greatsword sustained with crazy autoattack damage. Mainhand axe for warrior auto can crit for as high as 5-6k, is faster than greatsword auto, and allows for offhand customization of skills to either bring cc or vulnerability.

Don’t ask for buffs because warrior damage is high. Warrior needs to be nerfed and it’s not good health for the game, especially PvE, when anyone can do warriors’ broken damage.

I think a buff weapons need badly is sword flanking strike. It’s REALLY bad.

I wasn’t asking for buffs, just want the smooth gameplay of my class back I didn’t ask for warrior damage, it was someone else earlier who said we have warrior dps. We CAN have the 2nd highest dps but we do not have warrior dps. Other people in this thread say it a lot better than me so I’d suggest reading a few posts from this if you want to get were I’m coming from.

Yeah, the issue is that they haven’t moved to make wvw follow spvp rulesets instead of PvE, so pve thieves get screwed by stealth changes.

It never made sense to me why confusion or stealth or crit damage caps follow pve rulesets in wvw instead of spvp ones…

It’s like dd ele RTL changes, was fine in pve, but due to wvw it got changed.

I disagree about making stealth more available though — the problem is the other dagger skills need boosting. Why is leaping death blossom so bad? Because condis are really bad in pve while good in pvp.

I don’t find cnd>backstab spam to be fun on d/d. I wish thieves were encouraged more like the gw1 assassin and use skill chains instead of spamming a skill or two.

randomfightfan.4091:

Zenith.7301:

I doubt lobbying for warrior damage is the right way to go.

Warrior damage needs major nerfing.

100blades is 43k damage under best case scenario, but it’s actually main hand axe on warrior that outdamages warrior greatsword sustained with crazy autoattack damage. Mainhand axe for warrior auto can crit for as high as 5-6k, is faster than greatsword auto, and allows for offhand customization of skills to either bring cc or vulnerability.

Don’t ask for buffs because warrior damage is high. Warrior needs to be nerfed and it’s not good health for the game, especially PvE, when anyone can do warriors’ broken damage.

I think a buff weapons need badly is sword flanking strike. It’s REALLY bad.

I wasn’t asking for buffs, just want the smooth gameplay of my class back I didn’t ask for warrior damage, it was someone else earlier who said we have warrior dps. We CAN have the 2nd highest dps but we do not have warrior dps. Other people in this thread say it a lot better than me so I’d suggest reading a few posts from this if you want to get were I’m coming from.

tbh with out exceedingly low skill coefficients and the limitations of the initiative system I dare say 2nd highest dps is a bit of an exageration in general.

Dasorine.1964:

randomfightfan.4091:

Zenith.7301:

I doubt lobbying for warrior damage is the right way to go.

Warrior damage needs major nerfing.

100blades is 43k damage under best case scenario, but it’s actually main hand axe on warrior that outdamages warrior greatsword sustained with crazy autoattack damage. Mainhand axe for warrior auto can crit for as high as 5-6k, is faster than greatsword auto, and allows for offhand customization of skills to either bring cc or vulnerability.

Don’t ask for buffs because warrior damage is high. Warrior needs to be nerfed and it’s not good health for the game, especially PvE, when anyone can do warriors’ broken damage.

I think a buff weapons need badly is sword flanking strike. It’s REALLY bad.

I wasn’t asking for buffs, just want the smooth gameplay of my class back I didn’t ask for warrior damage, it was someone else earlier who said we have warrior dps. We CAN have the 2nd highest dps but we do not have warrior dps. Other people in this thread say it a lot better than me so I’d suggest reading a few posts from this if you want to get were I’m coming from.

tbh with out exceedingly low skill coefficients and the limitations of the initiative system I dare say 2nd highest dps is a bit of an exageration in general.

It’s not an exaggeration. It’s the 2nd highest, maybe closely followed after by mesmer, but it’s still 2nd at the very least single target.

Warrior just outclasses everybody by a ridiculous degree for some reason. I don’t get how some classes can get 3k autoattack crits at best when another class can double that and then have a skill on a 6 sec cd that does absurd amounts of damage, and aoe to boot.

hildegain.2106:

You’ve been rude from the start, before anyone even responded to you.

“Your rudeness was done for the sake of being rude.” no it was not, I disagreed with you and told you that the re-balancing of stealth was there for a reason and that you shouldn’t be so reliant on one ability. What is so rude with that?

It was all in how you worded it. I obviously have the same issue, mean to say something 1 way but it comes out sounding wrong

I didn’t insult your intelligence, I questioned it. You’re making the statement that one extra second of so-called “downtime” (which it isn’t, since that is time that you’re doing nothing at all) breaks your thief completely in PVE, this is blatantly false. You’re so-called losing about 1k damage or so per backstab, this doesn’t seem like much of a loss.

Just like right there, insulting someone’s intelligence is saying someone’s dumb, questioning it says, “Does this guy really think he knows what he’s talking about?” And that kind of response is what makes me immediately jump to the conclusion that you are a jerk. Whether it be true or not, it just what that kind of post makes me think while reading it. I appologise if it isn’t true.

Raine.1394:

Oldgrimm.8521:

uhm what i see in this discussion,

mirta is a p/p spec who does not rely heavily on stealth, since his sneek attack will be activated using long cooldown utilities

any spec using heavy stealth using weapon skills is heavily affected since their muscle memory of doing things is ruined.

any skills using mechanical functioning like hand and eye coordination, a little off balance is HUGELY noticeable,

eg, in musical score if you mess up with the metronome you are screwed, and screwing the whole orchestra, since an adept maestro and listener will definitely notice it

A nice illumination here. The one aspect of concern is the messing with muscle memory which implies that you can retrain. Here, for me, the flow is gone. I guess I could get used to there being no flow, but there still would be no flow. In other words, the thrill is gone.

A successful element of class design has been removed from the game. It’s the exact wrong way, 180 degrees, to go about class balance. Far better to work towards extending success to all classes rather than removing it from the game as a problem.

This is what I’ve been talking about the entire time for the 1s revealed. Please stop ignore THAT part of my posts.

“That is why you were infracted and I was not.” “You made a bigger fool of yourself” “Spiteful comments” Almost seems to me that you’re now trying to play the “I’m innocent” card. Sorry there but my statements were in direct response to the blatantly false claims you’ve made and your already bad attitude you had since the start. “learn to adapt” and “you’re doing it wrong” are not really rude statements, they’re merely observations based on your comments.

Even for a stealth thief, I hardly see how this re-balance (that most people need to just accept and adapt to, not game-breaking at all) I don’t see it affecting anyone. Also, I’ve done the stealth thief thing, so I’m not saying this from the position of someone who hasn’t ever done it, I’m just saying that you’re not completely ruined (edited because my original word is supposedely a “swear”) in any sense and you’re now just brought down ever so slightly, it’s not a major crisis situation.

This paragraph is why I brought in other valid points from other people. You’re doing what I tend to do sometimes. Only follow 1 person’s posts to reply to them and forget there are other people in the thread. I hope they brought some insight about what I’m trying to say.

“Lastly, I 100% agree that thief needed a nerf in wvw, but 1s longer reveal did not affect thief in wvw. Said that multiple times but for w/e reason, you don’t seem to be hearing it”

I said nothing on the topic of WvW so this “not hearing it” isn’t my problem.

if that’s true then I apologise I got you mixed up with someone else I was talking to. Busy on the forums today for w/e reason. The reason why the nerf isn’t nearly as bad in wvw and pvp though is because there’s a very different type of play style that goes with their territory. You can still get a great feeling going on there but it still is going to mess with the thief’s internal clock. The main consolidation is that pvp and wvw are random enough that they player should be adjusting accordingly to compensate for such situations.

Mirta.5029:

I have a thief and being revealed for 4 seconds instead of 3 did nothing to me. I still can fight just as well as I did before. I did go for less op pistol pistol setup though.
When I go to wvw and see all the backstabbing thieves… Thieves do need balancing and 1 extra second of revealed is not a major nerf.

If you run pistol pistol it no doubt doesnt change much, but hide is the only proper means of defense in most builds for thief and reveal hits it hard.
I agree when looking at backstab thiefs it might need a nerf, 2 backstab thiefs drop anything so fast it doesnt even know what hit him. The simple backstab and HS someone down is a pain in the kitten and I think the main problem is the double damage from backstab.

Sure tanky build or a guardians block create a problem for them but that doesnt replace the problem with teh backstab just instantly destorying another crit build without them having any chance, nor does it change the fact that vs a hybrid the hybrid barely has time to react as well when catch the BS & HS HS treatment when the first one hits him full in the back with max damage.

The current reveal option just ruined the thief build in the way the creator already stated, giving the stealth as a safe, kinda gets you destroyed often now.

Also the reveal sometimes gets bugged and even when gone, keeps shadow refuge from cloaking saying still immune. They created a kittenload of problems for thiefs instead of fixing the backstab build for example, and the train cloaking.

If some things dont work out it needs proper fixing, not a speed fix that ruins their own creations. Besides, considering PVE its never a good thing to nerf and nerf, instead start buffing the classes with big problems, rangers ranged weapons for example.

randomfightfan.4091:

Headshot? just lol.

Reading your sig i know that you talk about PvE perspective but you’re terribly wrong in the quoted sentence.
Let me start by explaining that in WvW D\P can perform very well without being in stealth 90% of the time, so the new 4s revealed isn’t that big.
Then, unlike a D\D user a non permastealth D\P player can, in a PvE environment, be untouched by mobs: blinds, stealth, evades and, with Withdraw, a gap maker with a built in evade.
In conclusion, i can do PvE content very well, blinding mobs\bosses and such, meanwhile performing insanely good in WvW.
We’re talking about 5k backstab crits and 3k Headshot Crits, while having 2,6k Thougness and 15,5-16k HP.
If you want more details on the playstyle (not the build because it’s a pretty standard one, same as the gear) feel free to hit me up.
Cheers,
Hot Shots

Samoleth.5012:

randomfightfan.4091:

Headshot? just lol.

Reading your sig i know that you talk about PvE perspective but you’re terribly wrong in the quoted sentence.
Let me start by explaining that in WvW D\P can perform very well without being in stealth 90% of the time, so the new 4s revealed isn’t that big.
Then, unlike a D\D user a non permastealth D\P player can, in a PvE environment, be untouched by mobs: blinds, stealth, evades and, with Withdraw, a gap maker with a built in evade.
In conclusion, i can do PvE content very well, blinding mobs\bosses and such, meanwhile performing insanely good in WvW.
We’re talking about 5k backstab crits and 3k Headshot Crits, while having 2,6k Thougness and 15,5-16k HP.
If you want more details on the playstyle (not the build because it’s a pretty standard one, same as the gear) feel free to hit me up.
Cheers,
Hot Shots

sorry if I didn’t explain it that well in the mail post but it has been stated many times that the problem with 4s revealed isn’t in the pvp and wvw, it’s in the pve. I’ll try to change it so there’s less confusion

randomfightfan.4091:

from the sounds of it then you’re a condi thief who doesn’t break your stealth. For d/d, d/p, or s/d thief, it throws off the timing immensely. For p/d thief, it makes forcing the most defensive thief combo stay in harms way 33% longer before being able to do your 1 strong move again.

For the P/D thief CND>Sneak Attack>Shadow Strike>(wait for enemy to reclose) Rinse and repeat… I hated it on my thief in pve for a while at first then adapted… However if they switched it back for pve only I wouldn’t complain.