thief spvp
Your having trouble killing people as a thief? well thats not right, lets fix it.
First off, your an up front killing from the shadows. Your bow and guns for the most part will just be a gap closer and something to use when you need to keep you distance (like the middle of a zerg). For you if your new to this class I suggest dagger/pistol, and shortbow.
Trait wise put lots into the Shadow arts (the 3rd one, healing and stuff) and full that up. Now the 2nd one, and 10 into the top one. Pick a few traits that will help you kill in the first two, and the 3rd on look to keeping yourself alive.
Now as for gems, the new one they put in I do not remember the name, the stats are power precision and vitality. Grab that one, and grab a bezerker and stick that one in your bag for later (you will want to start using it once you feel more settled in with the class, it offers a nice bumb in damage at the cost of less health).
Pick your utilities based on going into stealth (if you picked your stleah based traits in shadow arts nicely, you will get health and remove conditions in stealth, which is VERY nice). Now, onto playing.
Go onto a 5v5 game, and practice there. 8v8 teaches bad habbits and its not really good for thief anyway. In a proper match you will be fighting 1v1 sometimes, best to get better at that. Now remember, you will lose and its ok, just keep at it and you will get their.
Now, how to fighting proper bin bag style.
Just do damage with your shortbow whilst you are closing the distance, sometimes putting a poison field down (like on a point) is good as they will either move out of it or eat the damage. Your number 1 is your main auto attack, keep hitting them with it, and try to circle them whilst doing it, its a good way to throw them off. 2 is a nice gap closer or something to use to finish them off. Be careful though, people know to pop defense stuff or fear you if they start to see chains of them coming in and they have less than 50% health. I save mine for when they are at about 20% or less, in my mind I think 2 should down them or dont use it. 3 is a nice gap closer if you feel you are lagging out of combat. 4 is a move that locks them out of skills, its a good thing to use but something for higher level play so you can ignore it to a degree. Although once you have got damage down, learning how to use 4 is a god send at times. 5 is awesome for you as well, press it once, then press 2, you just did damage, and are now stealthed. If your going in for the kill, as soon as you are stealthed from that combo, hit 1 for a nice backstab. Any power spec class (lots of damage not much defense) will feel the pain from that combo.
Be aware of these facts for a smoother take off experiance
Most decent thief builds take time to build, and each play style will change whats best to use, so do not be afraid to shake things up a little, move stuff about and experiment.
You cannot tank, no matter how hard you try, they are not good at it at all. With that in mind, damage and dots are going to be your choices of damage. Pick one and stick to that style.
With that in mind, your utilities will need to be support for the most part. It could be venom sharing if thats your thing, or just things to help you live longer. Your only real enemy is conditions, anything that can plow them on you needs to be handled with extreme care.
Sometimes its better to stealth out and wait for a team mate to join in. 2v1 is more likey to win than 1v1. Its not the most honorable thing, but a win is a win my friend. Besides, say a condition mesmer is on your point, or you what that dudes point, well good luck. If they are pretty good at it, it wont matter if your the best in the world. They will still have the advantage. Some set ups are just not good to go against. Some are really good to go against, like pretty much any warrior build.
Oh, and no matter what elite you pick, they will never feel elite. Bas venom is my personal choice, but in all fairness it doesnt matter too much (unless venom share in which case bas is amazing)
p/p is a little underated…although u ahve to build it around unload….its still effective. ive done 12k unloads iwth ricochet ….also spreading bleeds is nice plus SOM is like 2500hp heal per unload allthe time. then using 2x poison fields the pulses heal you. lets say it hits 4 people for each pulse. thats (4 × 4)x2 which is 32 heals at 140 per heal which =4480 plus the trick shot hits you get 4 more x 3 which is 12×140 = 1680 . so in 5 seconds or so you did aoe poison on 4 enemies healed for 6160 and did 4 attacks that hit 3 people each and prolly AOE proc on fire sigil
range weapons can be used as main…not just gap closers.
Okay here we go, complete guide to modern meta thief.
1. Go D/P backstab build (10/30/0/0/30)
- Backstab rotation: Bass venom-> Black powder-> heartseeker+steal (steel mid-heartseeker)-> auto attack in the back.
- Vs. Casters: spam auto attack + 4 in downtime between backstabs (precast backstab animation into steal if you get stealth without your black powder combo)
- Vs. Melee: spam auto attack + 3. depending on wep sets, you’ll wanna use blind as a spam or as a gap closer. Eg; you see warrior swap to hammer, hit 3 every time the blind wars off between attacks; very easy to do since init regen buff. Against a staff mesmer just use it to close gaps (they usually don’t have anything that you’d really wana blind when they are in staff).
- Necro: they give you a long kitten fear when you steal, you can blind their fears, and their heal is long cast time (easy interrupt with 4). Some ppl complain about this matchup but imo thief does well against necro.
- Ele: They have low health pool, open with backstab rotation and just blind up when they go earth attunement, spam 4 when they go water attunement. Backstab as often as possible, their steal skill is a massive slow and makes landing backstabs super easymode.
- Guardian: their steal is a huuuuge daze, get them to around 1/2 hp by dropping a blind field and just auto attacking, then steal – daze – auto attack until daze wares off – then auto attack and daze spam with 4 until they are dead dead. You might not need black powder against some guards, but if they are rocking a hammer it’s usually a good idea.
- Mesmer: A good mesmer will usually outplay any thief, they have immunity to damage on command with sword 2 and f4 and blink on 8s cd + they burst for like 1/2 our hp. If you’re in hotjoins, you can usually get away with just spamming 3 and auto attack though.
- Warrior: Easy matchup for thief. all you have to do is spam 3 when they go hammer or mace or LB and you win, straight up. Drop black powder if they go gs, you can also precast black powder into steal and then use that axe aoe to do dps and spam aoe blinds. Watch their hp bar for berserker stance buff (it looks like this) -it will make them immune to blinds for short period (like 8s) -just kite or drop shadow refuge during this time period, it’s easy to play around if you’re patient.
- Ranger: This is a long fight, basically just use steal off CD, drop the tree when you get around 50% hp and heartseeker through it. You can choose to spam 3 or just drop blind fields and auto attack, but it’s SUPER important that you save enough initiative to interrupt their heals with 4. You have a lot of control over the fight -you can basically reset it every 20s with steal, but so can they if you let them heal.
- Engineer: Like mesmer, a good engineer will usually be pretty tough for a thief to deal with. You’re gonna wanna ditch this fight in ranked games.
- Thief: so good news is that most thieves you’re gonna meet in spvp are pretty bad. Just keep pistol 3 up for the majority of the fight and you’re gonna win. If they go stealth, drop a black powder and stand in it to blind their backstabs. Whoever lands most backstabs usually wins (takes like 2).
Heartseeker: Just use for combos, it sucks for damage.
(pretty basic stuff here)
- Drop black powder before you stomp a: Guardian, Engineer, Warrior, Necro, Ranger (they all have interrupts in their downed state that can be blinded with pistol 5).
- Prepare to shadowstep mid-way through when you stomp a Thief.
- Do not stomp Mesmer until they use their invis. Also, do not stomp Ele until they burn mist form. Just auto attack them until they burn these abilities.
- In 1v2+ scenarios, drop black powder and stealth off it with heartseeker before stomping. You can use 4 to interrupt if they try to heal the downed body.
5. Be mobile; SB5 for vert mobility.
6. NEVER play evade spamming cheese builds. If you touch these s/d or d/d builds you will be dead to me. Good luck!
I’m around 1000 games on thief in spvp, I bounce around the top 400-1000 of NA ladders and I’ve played with or interviewed pretty much every competitive d/p thief in the NA scene. I’m not throwing this in to brag, it’s just so you know I’m not some random troll.
Neglekt
(edited by Zodian.6597)
Okay here we go, complete guide to modern meta thief.
1. Go D/P backstab build (10/30/0/0/30)
- Backstab rotation: Bass venom-> Black powder-> heartseeker+steal (steel mid-heartseeker)-> auto attack in the back.
- Vs. Casters: spam auto attack + 4 in downtime between backstabs (precast backstab animation into steal if you get stealth without your black powder combo)
- Vs. Melee: spam auto attack + 3. depending on wep sets, you’ll wanna use blind as a spam or as a gap closer. Eg; you see warrior swap to hammer, hit 3 every time the blind wars off between attacks; very easy to do since init regen buff. Against a staff mesmer just use it to close gaps (they usually don’t have anything that you’d really wana blind when they are in staff).
- Necro: they give you a long kitten fear when you steal, you can blind their fears, and their heal is long cast time (easy interrupt with 4). Some ppl complain about this matchup but imo thief does well against necro.
- Ele: They have low health pool, open with backstab rotation and just blind up when they go earth attunement, spam 4 when they go water attunement. Backstab as often as possible, their steal skill is a massive slow and makes landing backstabs super easymode.
- Guardian: their steal is a huuuuge daze, get them to around 1/2 hp by dropping a blind field and just auto attacking, then steal – daze – auto attack until daze wares off – then auto attack and daze spam with 4 until they are dead dead. You might not need black powder against some guards, but if they are rocking a hammer it’s usually a good idea.
- Mesmer: A good mesmer will usually outplay any thief, they have immunity to damage on command with sword 2 and f4 and blink on 8s cd + they burst for like 1/2 our hp. If you’re in hotjoins, you can usually get away with just spamming 3 and auto attack though.
- Warrior: Easy matchup for thief. all you have to do is spam 3 when they go hammer or mace or LB and you win, straight up. Drop black powder if they go gs, you can also precast black powder into steal and then use that axe aoe to do dps and spam aoe blinds. Watch their hp bar for berserker stance buff (it looks like this) -it will make them immune to blinds for short period (like 8s) -just kite or drop shadow refuge during this time period, it’s easy to play around if you’re patient.
- Ranger: This is a long fight, basically just use steal off CD, drop the tree when you get around 50% hp and heartseeker through it. You can choose to spam 3 or just drop blind fields and auto attack, but it’s SUPER important that you save enough initiative to interrupt their heals with 4. You have a lot of control over the fight -you can basically reset it every 20s with steal, but so can they if you let them heal.
- Engineer: Like mesmer, a good engineer will usually be pretty tough for a thief to deal with. You’re gonna wanna ditch this fight in ranked games.
- Thief: so good news is that most thieves you’re gonna meet in spvp are pretty bad. Just keep pistol 3 up for the majority of the fight and you’re gonna win. If they go stealth, drop a black powder and stand in it to blind their backstabs. Whoever lands most backstabs usually wins (takes like 2).
Heartseeker: Just use for combos, it sucks for damage.(pretty basic stuff here)
- Drop black powder before you stomp a: Guardian, Engineer, Warrior, Necro, Ranger (they all have interrupts in their downed state that can be blinded with pistol 5).
- Prepare to shadowstep mid-way through when you stomp a Thief.
- Do not stomp Mesmer until they use their invis. Also, do not stomp Ele until they burn mist form. Just auto attack them until they burn these abilities.
- In 1v2+ scenarios, drop black powder and stealth off it with heartseeker before stomping. You can use 4 to interrupt if they try to heal the downed body.
5. Be mobile; SB5 for vert mobility.
6. NEVER play evade spamming cheese builds. If you touch these s/d or d/d builds you will be dead to me. Good luck!
I’m around 1000 games on thief in spvp, I bounce around the top 400-1000 of NA ladders and I’ve played with or interviewed pretty much every competitive d/p thief in the NA scene. I’m not throwing this in to brag, it’s just so you know I’m not some random troll.
LOL i play almost exactly like you . . . but s/d and d/d are not cheesy . . . come one Zodian don’t be hard xD.
OP you should try this gameplay . . . very accurate guide =P.
Okay here we go, complete guide to modern meta thief.
1. Go D/P backstab build (10/30/0/0/30)
- Backstab rotation: Bass venom-> Black powder-> heartseeker+steal (steel mid-heartseeker)-> auto attack in the back.
- Vs. Casters: spam auto attack + 4 in downtime between backstabs (precast backstab animation into steal if you get stealth without your black powder combo)
- Vs. Melee: spam auto attack + 3. depending on wep sets, you’ll wanna use blind as a spam or as a gap closer. Eg; you see warrior swap to hammer, hit 3 every time the blind wars off between attacks; very easy to do since init regen buff. Against a staff mesmer just use it to close gaps (they usually don’t have anything that you’d really wana blind when they are in staff).
- Necro: they give you a long kitten fear when you steal, you can blind their fears, and their heal is long cast time (easy interrupt with 4). Some ppl complain about this matchup but imo thief does well against necro.
- Ele: They have low health pool, open with backstab rotation and just blind up when they go earth attunement, spam 4 when they go water attunement. Backstab as often as possible, their steal skill is a massive slow and makes landing backstabs super easymode.
- Guardian: their steal is a huuuuge daze, get them to around 1/2 hp by dropping a blind field and just auto attacking, then steal – daze – auto attack until daze wares off – then auto attack and daze spam with 4 until they are dead dead. You might not need black powder against some guards, but if they are rocking a hammer it’s usually a good idea.
- Mesmer: A good mesmer will usually outplay any thief, they have immunity to damage on command with sword 2 and f4 and blink on 8s cd + they burst for like 1/2 our hp. If you’re in hotjoins, you can usually get away with just spamming 3 and auto attack though.
- Warrior: Easy matchup for thief. all you have to do is spam 3 when they go hammer or mace or LB and you win, straight up. Drop black powder if they go gs, you can also precast black powder into steal and then use that axe aoe to do dps and spam aoe blinds. Watch their hp bar for berserker stance buff (it looks like this) -it will make them immune to blinds for short period (like 8s) -just kite or drop shadow refuge during this time period, it’s easy to play around if you’re patient.
- Ranger: This is a long fight, basically just use steal off CD, drop the tree when you get around 50% hp and heartseeker through it. You can choose to spam 3 or just drop blind fields and auto attack, but it’s SUPER important that you save enough initiative to interrupt their heals with 4. You have a lot of control over the fight -you can basically reset it every 20s with steal, but so can they if you let them heal.
- Engineer: Like mesmer, a good engineer will usually be pretty tough for a thief to deal with. You’re gonna wanna ditch this fight in ranked games.
- Thief: so good news is that most thieves you’re gonna meet in spvp are pretty bad. Just keep pistol 3 up for the majority of the fight and you’re gonna win. If they go stealth, drop a black powder and stand in it to blind their backstabs. Whoever lands most backstabs usually wins (takes like 2).
Heartseeker: Just use for combos, it sucks for damage.(pretty basic stuff here)
- Drop black powder before you stomp a: Guardian, Engineer, Warrior, Necro, Ranger (they all have interrupts in their downed state that can be blinded with pistol 5).
- Prepare to shadowstep mid-way through when you stomp a Thief.
- Do not stomp Mesmer until they use their invis. Also, do not stomp Ele until they burn mist form. Just auto attack them until they burn these abilities.
- In 1v2+ scenarios, drop black powder and stealth off it with heartseeker before stomping. You can use 4 to interrupt if they try to heal the downed body.
5. Be mobile; SB5 for vert mobility.
6. NEVER play evade spamming cheese builds. If you touch these s/d or d/d builds you will be dead to me. Good luck!
I’m around 1000 games on thief in spvp, I bounce around the top 400-1000 of NA ladders and I’ve played with or interviewed pretty much every competitive d/p thief in the NA scene. I’m not throwing this in to brag, it’s just so you know I’m not some random troll.
This is a short and great guide how to play D/P effectively in spvp, should be in its own topic and sticky.
+1
And yes, most thieves go down like butter, it’s so rare to find a skilled thief these days.
Thief, Engineer, Mesmer – Seafarer’s Rest (EU)
Zodian, those tips, at best, will merit him hotjoin hero status.
You’re right, a decent build and tactics will only get you so far. Playing thief @ competitive level requires a lot of intuition, awareness, positioning, and ect… But these are things that you develop naturally through playing. I’d say just keep an eye on target hp bars; try and really be aware of what buffs/debuffs are on them and incorporate that into your play (don’t use 3 if they are already blinded, don’t use 4 if they are already cc’d or have stab, don’t go for backstabs if they have prot, swap targets if they pop immunity spells like distortion/zerkers stance/elixir r, steal to apply poison if you see they have regen, ect…). This is something that I really neglected to do when I was starting pvp just out of laziness, but it’s what will allow you to come out on top in 1v2+ scenarios on any class.
Oh and don’t use d/p in big teamfights, just find a safe spot and AA +cluster bomb with SB and keep poison field down. Unless targets are really spread out (like enough to where you can gib someone without getting hit by an AOE), you should never jump head first into a team fight (at least if you’re just starting out on thief). #positioning
Neglekt
(edited by Zodian.6597)
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir