Guild Wars 2

We all know thieves for their outrageous damage, annoying perma stealth and being one of the best mobile classes in the game. Not much has been done to deter this problem and because of this, wvwvw is now infested with thieves. However, the main problem lies within abusing this power.

For the past few days I have noticed that all our world’s keeps have been consistently contested, 24/7. Thieves have been taking advantage of the fact that they can disengage many dire situations, whether it be a small group of people or even a zerg and using it to cause grief to our whole world; just from one person. The other day it took 20+ guildmates, and 30+ minutes, surrounding the whole overlook keep to identify the location and dispose of the one thief; and only to have him come back a few moments later.

This absurd tactic have been preventing many potential gains that our server could have had and causing many time crucial losses due to the time restrictions.

Something really needs to be done about this, whether they give invisibility a huge nerf like they did quickness, or do something about keeps, towers, etc being contested by a lone thief.

Chess Jurist.3580:

[snip]
Something really needs to be done about this, whether they give invisibility a huge nerf like they did quickness, or do something about keeps, towers, etc being contested by a lone thief.

You mean like the nerf they already gave it by changing Revealed to be 4s?
Have you ever played a thief? Do you know how difficult keeping up invisibility can be?

So you get angry cause of one guy has learned his profession and can use it really well – and now, of course, you want to not just punish that player, but also punish everyone else who plays thief.

You sir, are a hateful man, and need to learn to accept that some people just play better than you. (not me though, last I went into WvW with a thief I was killed in four hits)

I fail to see how this is a exclusive thief abuse.

Also I fail to percieve that said ‘infestation’ of thieves… More than Eles, Guardians, or Warriors for example.

Seems to me a simple case of biased hate towards thieves, and that you percieve about them only what you want to percieve.

Lmfao, that sounds 100% identical to what happened to me in WvW recently, I can’t believe that you guys spent so long chasing me instead of capping a point or two…

Thanks for the thread about me, my ego and desire to troll on my Thief both got a little bigger. <3 xx

Use a ranger and contest their keeps by sending your pet to attack the gate from 3.5k range. Problem solved, both sides got contested keeps…

ZenonSeth.5739:

You mean like the nerf they already gave it by changing Revealed to be 4s?
Have you ever played a thief? Do you know how difficult keeping up invisibility can be?

in most cases its not that difficult

So you get angry cause of one guy has learned his profession and can use it really well – and now, of course, you want to not just punish that player, but also punish everyone else who plays thief.

learned his profession? thieves are easy to play as it is, easier than most classes (not that they are that hard either), but thief is probably one of the easiest at least in world vs world
right now i feel, allmost all classes are punished for not playing thief (or mesmer) in wvw (zergfest excluded), the effort you have to take to kill a thief is much more than for him to kill other classes

ZenonSeth.5739:

You sir, are a hateful man, and need to learn to accept that some people just play better than you. (not me though, last I went into WvW with a thief I was killed in four hits)

i believe a lot of people have problems with thieves that even when they “outplay” the thief they gain nothing, besides as a thief you can compete with players above your skill level at least in wvw

Griswold.2054:

ZenonSeth.5739:

You mean like the nerf they already gave it by changing Revealed to be 4s?
Have you ever played a thief? Do you know how difficult keeping up invisibility can be?

in most cases its not that difficult

So you get angry cause of one guy has learned his profession and can use it really well – and now, of course, you want to not just punish that player, but also punish everyone else who plays thief.

learned his profession? thieves are easy to play as it is, easier than most classes (not that they are that hard either), but thief is probably one of the easiest at least in world vs world
right now i feel, allmost all classes are punished for not playing thief (or mesmer) in wvw (zergfest excluded), the effort you have to take to kill a thief is much more than for him to kill other classes

ZenonSeth.5739:

You sir, are a hateful man, and need to learn to accept that some people just play better than you. (not me though, last I went into WvW with a thief I was killed in four hits)

i believe a lot of people have problems with thieves that even when they “outplay” the thief they gain nothing, besides as a thief you can compete with players above your skill level at least in wvw

You really have no idea what you’re talking about if that’s what you think. Thieves have one of the highest skill ceilings when it comes to being played at top levels. There’s a reason that they’re so poorly rated in tPvP, and it’s not because they’re stupidly OP.

Go ahead, level a Thief to 80, kit yourself out in exotics and then come back and tell us just how easy it is to play a Thief and 1v1/X in WvW or sPvP.

We’ll be waiting.

Griswold.2054:

thief is probably one of the easiest at least in world vs world
right now i feel, allmost all classes are punished for not playing thief (or mesmer) in wvw (zergfest excluded), the effort you have to take to kill a thief is much more than for him to kill other classes

I’m sorry I’m laughing so hard, not sure if you’re trolling. I hope that you’ve actually got a thief, leveled him/her to 80 and tried perma stealth/ “thief ez mode in wvw” whatever you think that might be.

You must be the most gifted player in gw2 that I have ever heard of. Secret is out everyone, guys playing warrior guards or mes are wasting their time. They should try playing the thief and enjoy the thief OP ez mode.

Btw yea, I do have a warrior, guard and a mesmer too, and I main a thief.

Griswold.2054:

ZenonSeth.5739:

You mean like the nerf they already gave it by changing Revealed to be 4s?
Have you ever played a thief? Do you know how difficult keeping up invisibility can be?

in most cases its not that difficult

So you get angry cause of one guy has learned his profession and can use it really well – and now, of course, you want to not just punish that player, but also punish everyone else who plays thief.

learned his profession? thieves are easy to play as it is, easier than most classes (not that they are that hard either), but thief is probably one of the easiest at least in world vs world
right now i feel, allmost all classes are punished for not playing thief (or mesmer) in wvw (zergfest excluded), the effort you have to take to kill a thief is much more than for him to kill other classes

ZenonSeth.5739:

You sir, are a hateful man, and need to learn to accept that some people just play better than you. (not me though, last I went into WvW with a thief I was killed in four hits)

i believe a lot of people have problems with thieves that even when they “outplay” the thief they gain nothing, besides as a thief you can compete with players above your skill level at least in wvw

Hey, I’m not Thief expert, but at least I’ve played the profession – it doesn’t sound like you have, tbh.

There are 2 utility skills that grant stealth directly out of combat (barring any combos you may try to pull off). The longest one grants 15s stealth where you have to remain in the same area for 4s or lose your stealth. The recharge on these utils is 40s and 60s.
There’s also a healing skill that grants stealth, that also has a 30sec recharge.

Other skills that grant stealth are combat skills, and Steal. Steal has a recharge timer as well, so it can’t be spammed. Combat skills require you to engage an enemy while visible.

Every time you engage an enemy from stealth there is a 4 second period where you can be freely attacked. Given that thieves are quite squishy, 4s could be enough to target, disable and even down a thief if people know what they’re doing. This is also a counter measure to spamming stealth.

Thieves are not easy to play in my opinion. Out of all the professions I’ve tried, Thieves are the easiest to die, in my opinion. Or at least, I have not seen a profession that can be killled more easily.

Read these very forums to see how many people are having a hard time. Yes, some people are kicking kitten with Thieves, but it’s my guess that any profession has people who have become really proficient at it – and thus it feels like the profession is OP, where in fact, it’s the player that’s become OP.

Silver.4798:

Griswold.2054:

thief is probably one of the easiest at least in world vs world
right now i feel, allmost all classes are punished for not playing thief (or mesmer) in wvw (zergfest excluded), the effort you have to take to kill a thief is much more than for him to kill other classes

I’m sorry I’m laughing so hard, not sure if you’re trolling. I hope that you’ve actually got a thief, leveled him/her to 80 and tried perma stealth/ “thief ez mode in wvw” whatever you think that might be.

You must be the most gifted player in gw2 that I have ever heard of. Secret is out everyone, guys playing warrior guards or mes are wasting their time. They should try playing the thief and enjoy the thief OP ez mode.

I do not care anymore if Anet fixes the thief or not. But all those thieves denying and trying to defend their op’ness is quite annoying. I quitted my thief in favor of mesmer
and i am a the point whenever i’m sick of certain imbalances, i just log onto my mesmer, which is as or maybe even more op than the thief and enjoy some “ez mode” in rvr.
I always wonder why should i play my guardian or warrior. And yes, warriors and guardians outside of the zergfest are wasting their time compared to mesmer and thief.
Your opionion might differ so be it, fine.

Mesmer is in good hands as op as a thief, but i’d be happy, even so i play mesmer, if anet nerfed him. An overall better class balance is good for the whole playerbase and not just me. For me right now there is no point in playing anything but a mesmer and thief in rvr (again: for overall play outside of zergfest and guildparties).

/edit and of course i am not the most gifted player blabla… i never said i’d be. but i do say i feel much more ‘gifted’ on my mesmer than on my other classes.

i also agree that every thief that enters wvw should be banned for 1h or be restricted from entering wvw in the first place
+1

Griswold.2054:

I do not care anymore if Anet fixes the thief or not. But all those thieves denying and trying to defend their op’ness is quite annoying.

You don’t care, yet here you are in a thread doing exactly what you said you don’t care anymore. Don’t act like some sort of victim, it’s a discussion – and what do you expect by the way – for every thief to throw up their arms and agree with you? Maybe you think Thieves are OP, but I don’t think they are. Maybe I’m not the greatest Thief player in the world – but that’s just the point – if Thieves were truly OP, you wouldn’t need a Thief expert player to make it feel OP.

Griswold.2054:

Mesmer is in good hands as op as a thief …

There ya go – I don’t think that when a profession “in good hands” becomes powerful (and I’m still arguing your over-powered point) should be punished. Good players will be better than not-so-good players.

And just so you get this, I’ll repeat this again:
I’m not defending Thief’s OP, because I don’t think there is anything OP about it, and Thieves have a steep learning curve to become good! Being a good player should not be punished!

ZenonSeth.5739:

Griswold.2054:

I do not care anymore if Anet fixes the thief or not. But all those thieves denying and trying to defend their op’ness is quite annoying.

You don’t care, yet here you are in a thread doing exactly what you said you don’t care anymore. Don’t act like some sort of victim, it’s a discussion – and what do you expect by the way – for every thief to throw up their arms and agree with you? Maybe you think Thieves are OP, but I don’t think they are. Maybe I’m not the greatest Thief player in the world – but that’s just the point – if Thieves were truly OP, you wouldn’t need a Thief expert player to make it feel OP.

Griswold.2054:

Mesmer is in good hands as op as a thief …

There ya go – I don’t think that when a profession “in good hands” becomes powerful (and I’m still arguing your over-powered point) should be punished. Good players will be better than not-so-good players.

And just so you get this, I’ll repeat this again:
I’m not defending Thief’s OP, because I don’t think there is anything OP about it, and Thieves have a steep learning curve to become good! Being a good player should not be punished!

you don’t need any expert player to prove some class is op, im not that allmighty expert player and feel op on my mesmer

/edit ups quote fail

yes i do not care if they balance the thief or not, but i do care about the hypocracy which some here in the forum present in fear of getting nerfed

I at least say my class X is op compared to others. Most won’t even admit imbalances.

You may disagree but of course every class can excell if played by a good player, but that player would be stupid to waste more potential which he could have on a more op class. Except of course he doesn’t like the playstyle or the missing challenge or whatever. Either way, good player or bad player, i believe he cripples himself in a competetive way when he is playing for example a ranger. Of course again speaking solely out of an rvr point of view.

/edit
A lot of people here try to argue that there is no imbalance in classes, and its ALL a matter of l2p. But i believe certain classes, at least in rvr, have the upper hand by quite a margin.

Griswold.2054:

you don’t need any expert player to prove some class is op, im not that allmighty expert player and feel op on my mesmer

That sounds like something you should be posting in the mesmer forum.
I don’t see you presenting any evidence that Thief is OP in the hands of a regular player. I am a regular player, and I have not felt like I was OP.

See, the feeling I get is that you want Thief nerfed because some Thief messed up your day, you couldn’t find a counter to his tactics (that’s not the same as “there is no counter”), and now you feel like every player who plays Thief should be punished for something they didn’t do (namely – ruin your day)

Griswold.2054:

I at least say my class X is op compared to others. Most won’t even admit imbalances.

You may disagree but of course every class can excell if played by a good player, but that player would be stupid to waste more potential which he could have on a more op class. Except of course he doesn’t like the playstyle or the missing challenge or whatever. Either way, good player or bad player, i believe he cripples himself in a competetive way when he is playing for example a ranger.

Dude, this is not a personal attack or insult, I want to clarify this before I say that I really don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

What exactly do you want the thief to be? We don’t have the max burst potential of all classes (although we have good burst), we have the lowest health pool and wear medium armor so we can’t exactly tank. Outside of our heal skill and stealth (and healing in stealth is pretty slow) we don’t have any means of healing ourselves.

So what’s OP? The perma stealth in D/P? You have any idea how easy that is to mess up and the thin margin of error you’re dealing with? Everyone can BP->HS-> stealth and then BS. Then what? You need to figure out how to manage that 4s of revealed debuff, and we are squishy to begin with

The perma stealth to reset a fight? As much effort as that would take an opponent to kill us, it takes twice the effort on our part to maintain this perma stealth long enough to fully heal up, stay out of target’s AoE, keep target close enough so that s/he doesn’t heal, and to make sure not to hit any targets accidently. This is a very fragile defense and very easy to screw up. I have the utmost respect for anyone who can pull this off flawlessly every time. I personally am awful at this, at best I can pull this off maybe 3/10 times (edit: originally wrote 6/10, and if that was the case I’d be estatic) that I try it, which is why I opt for a build with high dodge instead.

I can have the same success in wvw with my guard or warrior that I have with my thief, in fact I have a lot more success with my guard than I do with my thief. You have any idea how much damage I can dish out, mitigate and heal in wvw with a guard focused on altruistic healing? Trust me, those guys are defn not wasting their time in wvw and there is a reason why people love guards.

Griswold.2054:

I do not care anymore if Anet fixes the thief or not. But all those thieves denying and trying to defend their op’ness is quite annoying. I quitted my thief in favor of mesmer
and i am a the point whenever i’m sick of certain imbalances, i just log onto my mesmer, which is as or maybe even more op than the thief and enjoy some “ez mode” in rvr.
I always wonder why should i play my guardian or warrior. And yes, warriors and guardians outside of the zergfest are wasting their time compared to mesmer and thief.
Your opionion might differ so be it, fine.

Mesmer is in good hands as op as a thief, but i’d be happy, even so i play mesmer, if anet nerfed him. An overall better class balance is good for the whole playerbase and not just me. For me right now there is no point in playing anything but a mesmer and thief in rvr (again: for overall play outside of zergfest and guildparties).

/edit and of course i am not the most gifted player blabla… i never said i’d be. but i do say i feel much more ‘gifted’ on my mesmer than on my other classes.

So what you’re say is that there is nothing super op special imba broken blah blah (everything you’ve been complaining about) with thief in pvp, wvw, or pve? WvW IS the zerg fest and guild parties. The only thing here where you say the thief excels (and we all agree) is solo roaming. So due to this 1 class being good in picking off stragglers and confusing the back line, they have to get nerfed? Sound logic there Spock.

Btw, warrior hundred blades and guardian smite are too strong when I don’t walk out of their aoe. Please make the damage single target only now, the aoe smaller, and the damage halved. That should be fair to balance the those 2 classes. I just didn’t want to deal with moving 2 steps to the left all the time.

The situation the OP speaks of is laughable. Why do you even care if a random Thief is attacking a keep solo? Are they any threat whatsoever to actually take the keep? No? Then why are you paying any attention to him at all? All sorts of classes can make defensive troll builds that are no threat at all – you run past them on your way to an objective that actually matters.

Coming to the forums to complain that you can’t catch and kill troll characters that are accomplishing nothing other than distracting the clueless newbies only makes the case that you’re one of the clueless newbies that doesn’t know what to do.

Another reason why the recent stealth nerf was completely unnecessary and didn’t address any problems like this one. If Anet nerfed stealth to give debuff regardless of attacking or not instead of the god kitten 4 sec reveal, this would not be a problem.

I was in WvW on my thief last night and small scale fights were vs all Guardians, engineers and elementalists. I saw on enemy thief I think in 2 hours – and she exploded hard.

Faeyd.5094:

I was in WvW on my thief last night and small scale fights were vs all Guardians, engineers and elementalists. I saw on enemy thief I think in 2 hours – and she exploded hard.

Obviously you only saw one because they were all perma-stealhed, and one-shotting one of your guys every second with backstab/perma-stealth combo.

(oh, and the one you saw that ‘exploded’ – turns out that ‘exploding’ is just a decoy animation played when a thief decided to enter perma-stealth )

/sarcasm

True this. sneaky buggers.

Can anyone tell me how to perma stealth? I’d like to have some fun!

You are joining two problems into one.

Problem 1 is that one player can contest an objective very easily.
Problem 2 is that thieves are elusive, making them hard to kill.

I agree that contesting objectives is too easy – it should probably require siege hitting the wall/gate or 5 players attacking or someone being inside the objective (so mesmer ports are detected).

Problem 2 is intentional – SotG stated that thieves are supposed to be an elusive profession – http://www.gameskinny.com/kf63o/guild-wars-2-state-of-the-game-march-part-3 – you better learn to live with it because that is what the developers intended.

The final issue is your guild chose to spend 30 minutes killing a thief instead of posting 1 scout and sending 19 other people to flip objectives for 30 minutes – that must have cost your server a lot of points.

Please go complain about Problem 1 somewhere else – any profession can contest an objective easily and get away alive. Problem 2 – deal with it.

I can contest keep wps all day, no matter how many people you have, if you don’t know how to position them. I will even teach everyone here the easiest way I have found: Equip sword. Put shadow refuge. Wait for 10s stealth duration. Press 2. Go and poke the door. Press 2. Repeat after 3 mins.
Does that mean stealth/thief is OP? Nope, the system where all you need is to touch the door for the keep/tower to be contested isn’t the best. I am loving it though, when I am bored I go troll an enemy server by keeping all their towers and keep on EB contested, often with a dozen or so people chasing me, unable to do anything.

umm topic creator, doesn’t your server have thieves as well?

Chess Jurist.3580:

I got trolled by a solo thief and I liked it!

L2P, thieves can be countered in that kind of situation. Happens to me all the time.

Hell, the last dev meeting said thieves aren’t slipery enough!

Some classes you aren’t going to do well against in a 1v1 situation. Thives are one of them. I’d argue it’s good strategy for a group to send a couple thieves to contest a couple towers so the enemy forces can’t tell which one is being attacked legitimately. We call this behavior strategy… and WvW has an alarming lack of it.

Chess and Gris, Gtfo.

I think it’s great when a person learns to play a class efficiently enough to make a group struggle to take them down, the real problem lies in the fact that there is no counter to stealth, no class has abilities to reveal an area or give true sight. To balance any great pvp based content, everything must have a counter to give advantages and disadvantages to every class in every situation.

It’s not hard to keep an area contested and one doesn’t need to be a thief.

Besides, he’d be a really bad thief is he gets caught too easy.

SNAFU.2073:

I think it’s great when a person learns to play a class efficiently enough to make a group struggle to take them down, the real problem lies in the fact that there is no counter to stealth, no class has abilities to reveal an area or give true sight. To balance any great pvp based content, everything must have a counter to give advantages and disadvantages to every class in every situation.

but everyone has a way to kill and/or inconvenience the thief for the 3 seconds they are stealthed. Out side of that stealth and thieves in general don’t have enough to really warrant a complete hard counter.

Much ado about nothing. That’s all I have to say about that scenario. You dragged your guild into stop someone from playing Nicky Nicky 9 Doors.

SNAFU.2073:

I think it’s great when a person learns to play a class efficiently enough to make a group struggle to take them down, the real problem lies in the fact that there is no counter to stealth, no class has abilities to reveal an area or give true sight. To balance any great pvp based content, everything must have a counter to give advantages and disadvantages to every class in every situation.

There are plenty of counters to stealth. The problem is people don’t know how to do it and it takes skill.

When a refuge is popped you need to pull or push him out. When you see a D/P thief drop black powder, knock him out of it or stun him.

Stun him right before his stealth in his skill rotation.

The problem is that 90% of people who complain about stealth don’t know when the right time to use their skills to stop thieves from stealthing or putting a revealed on them.

Good players do it to me all the time and I am forced to usually go on the defensive or retreat. If I have no abilities up I can die.

Griswold.2054:

ZenonSeth.5739:

You mean like the nerf they already gave it by changing Revealed to be 4s?
Have you ever played a thief? Do you know how difficult keeping up invisibility can be?

in most cases its not that difficult

So you get angry cause of one guy has learned his profession and can use it really well – and now, of course, you want to not just punish that player, but also punish everyone else who plays thief.

learned his profession? thieves are easy to play as it is, easier than most classes (not that they are that hard either), but thief is probably one of the easiest at least in world vs world
right now i feel, allmost all classes are punished for not playing thief (or mesmer) in wvw (zergfest excluded), the effort you have to take to kill a thief is much more than for him to kill other classes

ZenonSeth.5739:

You sir, are a hateful man, and need to learn to accept that some people just play better than you. (not me though, last I went into WvW with a thief I was killed in four hits)

i believe a lot of people have problems with thieves that even when they “outplay” the thief they gain nothing, besides as a thief you can compete with players above your skill level at least in wvw

Just because you don’t like a class, that doesn’t make it easy to play.
I’ve played every class in the game a fair amount, and the only ones more complicated to play than the Thief are the Elementalist and possibly the Engineer depending upon the build.

Hello,

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