Guild Wars 2

Since the d/p meta build with a million passives and draula runes is boring as all hell, i started messing around with other sets and came up with a decently strong build so here it is.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhSnYvTw4Jw/EH7ElfK2irgfCbQJsDgarNB-TZBFABiXGQm9HI4JAswhAAgTAAA

You do not play it like the standard evade setup but rather go for the tactical strike daze as often as possible, hence why you take shadow arts (and also cos ascro is trash).

The bulk of your damage comes from c&d and auto attacks with haste, flanking strike should be used mainly as a evade and not spammed. Larencious strike is often not worth it unless you want to remove protection, c&d and just autoing will do more damage.
The main thing you need to keep in mind is that you do the most dmg at the start of the fight while your foe is above 50% so this is when you what to use haste.

The neet thing about this setup is that you can actually be somewhat of a bruzer and go toe to toe with annoying meta bs like burn guardians (since you got allot condy clears and condy resistance) and even tho you do not have stability you do just fine vs heavy cc spam too, with 3 stun breakers access to lots of evade skills and a 14 sec heal.

Trying to proc a sigil using a Sword is not ideal because of its attack speed. Either you change your sigil or you change your weapon because the combination as is, is not very effective.

CnD is a nice skill but compare to Heartseeker, damage per initiative, it’s not that great. The only real use of CnD is to put you in stealth but that can be accomplished some other ways. There is a very good reason why HS + BP from the D/P set is very effective.

Melandru’s rune is nice against condition, but you are sacrificing 200 power for a rune that deals with condition while spec’d with Trickster. That’s a little paranoid against conditions that is better off sacrificing the rune to get more DPS.

I understand that you want to do something different bu tin the end, it’ll come back to D/P SA power build because that’s the only build that makes sense in this meta.

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

Quite similar in playstyle to a build I used to run last winter to summer, for a whole whopping 5 months! (in WvW though)
I would take DA/SA/TR though and use Improvisation or Executioner. Usually I’m using Improvisation on ever single one of my Thief Builds, but as I remember pre patch this build used to lack some finisher Dmg so Executioner would probably be the better choice for this.
Also, in Trickery I’d go for the Haste when attacking from behind, as that is on a 36s CD when combined with Trickster (as opposed to 48s on the actual Haste).
I don’t like Haste as a utility, so I’d then think about using Infiltrator’s Signet or SR… even though I don’t like Roll for Intiative, I see it’s use in such a Trickster Build.
Also, I’d go for Pack Runes over Melandru to get some better Precision + more Swiftness & Fury… I like having perma swiftness and fury in a fight though, which is why I never end up being okay with having Haste over TotC or Trickster over Bountiful Theft (against Guardians it’s sooo good!)

There is a reason why this is not the meta, but you can make it work… as long as you accept not having perma swiftness/Fury

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out. It will proc more often but with the cooldown it does not matter as the proc will be locked by the ICD.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking. It does not matter if you get 20 or 40 more attacks in with dagger over that 5 seconds Sigil of fire will not proc again.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but I understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

Now obviously as you get closer to no ICD such as sigil of strength at one second there only so many attacks one can make in one second thus dagger wins out.

I believe in math.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

You are not doing the math. I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but a understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

I believe in math.

You’re missing the point. You’re assuming that both have 100% chance to Crit and 100% chance to proce — that’s not the case.

My point is, the more you attack, the higher you chance to crit and the more crit you make the higher your chance to proc the sigil. Slow weapon will not give you that high of a chance due to double RNG.

EDIT: Ah, you edit it. Well case in point, that 4 attacks from Dagger is done in short amount of time compare to 4 attacks from Sword — meaning less chances to get a crit and a proc in the same time frame.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

You are not doing the math. I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but a understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

I believe in math.

You’re missing the point. You’re assuming that both have 100% chance to Crit and 100% chance to proce — that’s not the case.

My point is, the more you attack, the higher you chance to crit and the more crit you make the higher your chance to proc the sigil. Slow weapon will not give you that high of a chance due to double RNG.

EDIT: Ah, you edit it. Well case in point, that 4 attacks from Dagger is done in short amount of time compare to 4 attacks from Sword — meaning less chances to get a crit and a proc in the same time frame.

I never said BOTh have a hundred percent chance to crit. I gave the numbers. Now the time frame is what you are focused on. Not material with the ICD. It might trigger earlier on dagger but then it will not trigger again until the ICD gone.

Your point is only made if for the period of the cooldown on the dagger after its proc , if the sword user for some reason is not attacking. I played s/d and I attacked more then 4 times in 5 seconds. (you also get more cleaves with a sword meaning more proc chances but that getting too detailed)

(sorry for the edits but I tend to post review/clarify so as to ensure there no typos and it hard to misinterpret what being said. We just happen to be posting at same time)

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

You are not doing the math. I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but a understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

I believe in math.

You’re missing the point. You’re assuming that both have 100% chance to Crit and 100% chance to proce — that’s not the case.

My point is, the more you attack, the higher you chance to crit and the more crit you make the higher your chance to proc the sigil. Slow weapon will not give you that high of a chance due to double RNG.

EDIT: Ah, you edit it. Well case in point, that 4 attacks from Dagger is done in short amount of time compare to 4 attacks from Sword — meaning less chances to get a crit and a proc in the same time frame.

I never said BOTh have a hundred percent chance to crit. I gave the numbers.

Yeah you edited it, it wasn’t there when I responded. I bet you didn’t see my edit either. lol

Now the time frame is what you are focused on. Not material with the ICD. It might trigger earlier on dagger but then it will not trigger again until the ICD gone.

When I said you need a “faster weapon” and “frequency”, time frame is implied.

Again, the point you’re missing is that the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

You are not doing the math. I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but a understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

I believe in math.

You’re missing the point. You’re assuming that both have 100% chance to Crit and 100% chance to proce — that’s not the case.

My point is, the more you attack, the higher you chance to crit and the more crit you make the higher your chance to proc the sigil. Slow weapon will not give you that high of a chance due to double RNG.

EDIT: Ah, you edit it. Well case in point, that 4 attacks from Dagger is done in short amount of time compare to 4 attacks from Sword — meaning less chances to get a crit and a proc in the same time frame.

I never said BOTh have a hundred percent chance to crit. I gave the numbers.

Yeah you edited it, it wasn’t there when I responded. I bet you didn’t see my edit either. lol

Now the time frame is what you are focused on. Not material with the ICD. It might trigger earlier on dagger but then it will not trigger again until the ICD gone.

When I said you need a “faster weapon” and “frequency”, time frame is implied.

Again, the point you’re missing is that the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency.

Time frame must acknowledge the cooldown.

The extra speed of the dagger and the frequency at which it strikes is not material when in ICD. The longer an ICD the less that advantage. The speed of the daggers in the AA for 3 attacks is less than a 1 second advantage. The difference in chances to proc is not that great. It there but the longer the ICD the less material it is.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

You are not doing the math. I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but a understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

I believe in math.

You’re missing the point. You’re assuming that both have 100% chance to Crit and 100% chance to proce — that’s not the case.

My point is, the more you attack, the higher you chance to crit and the more crit you make the higher your chance to proc the sigil. Slow weapon will not give you that high of a chance due to double RNG.

EDIT: Ah, you edit it. Well case in point, that 4 attacks from Dagger is done in short amount of time compare to 4 attacks from Sword — meaning less chances to get a crit and a proc in the same time frame.

I never said BOTh have a hundred percent chance to crit. I gave the numbers.

Yeah you edited it, it wasn’t there when I responded. I bet you didn’t see my edit either. lol

Now the time frame is what you are focused on. Not material with the ICD. It might trigger earlier on dagger but then it will not trigger again until the ICD gone.

When I said you need a “faster weapon” and “frequency”, time frame is implied.

Again, the point you’re missing is that the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency.

Time frame must acknowledge the cooldown.

The extra speed of the dagger and the frequency at which it strikes is not material when in ICD. The longer an ICD the less that advantage. The speed of the daggers in the AA for 3 attacks is less than a 1 second advantage. The difference in chances to proc is not that great. It there but the longer the ICD the less material it is.

I’ll just repeat myself here, “the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency” so yes, the ICD has been acknowledged.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

You are not doing the math. I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but a understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

I believe in math.

You’re missing the point. You’re assuming that both have 100% chance to Crit and 100% chance to proce — that’s not the case.

My point is, the more you attack, the higher you chance to crit and the more crit you make the higher your chance to proc the sigil. Slow weapon will not give you that high of a chance due to double RNG.

EDIT: Ah, you edit it. Well case in point, that 4 attacks from Dagger is done in short amount of time compare to 4 attacks from Sword — meaning less chances to get a crit and a proc in the same time frame.

I never said BOTh have a hundred percent chance to crit. I gave the numbers.

Yeah you edited it, it wasn’t there when I responded. I bet you didn’t see my edit either. lol

Now the time frame is what you are focused on. Not material with the ICD. It might trigger earlier on dagger but then it will not trigger again until the ICD gone.

When I said you need a “faster weapon” and “frequency”, time frame is implied.

Again, the point you’re missing is that the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency.

Time frame must acknowledge the cooldown.

The extra speed of the dagger and the frequency at which it strikes is not material when in ICD. The longer an ICD the less that advantage. The speed of the daggers in the AA for 3 attacks is less than a 1 second advantage. The difference in chances to proc is not that great. It there but the longer the ICD the less material it is.

I’ll just repeat myself here, “the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency” so yes, the ICD has been acknowledged.

I showed you the math on that players build. All the sword or dagger useruser has to do is get off 4 attacks (assuming fury up) in order to proc a sigil.

The attack sequence of the AA on sword is 2.52 seconds getting three attacks. The sequence on the AA of a dagger is 2.07 seconds a difference of less than half a second. All sword needs is one more attack to get that assured proc via math .45 plus the extra time needed on that next attack . (the full attack squence of the aa on daggers is 4 attacks so sword needs one more) the difference is less than 1 second total.

Now you can certainly use DB on daggers so as to lower the time needed for those 4 attacks but power builds really do not use DB. here the difference would a little over 2 seconds.

You then have to look at who gets more cleaves, which style of combat has a person attacking more frequently and so on.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

You are not doing the math. I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but a understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

I believe in math.

You’re missing the point. You’re assuming that both have 100% chance to Crit and 100% chance to proce — that’s not the case.

My point is, the more you attack, the higher you chance to crit and the more crit you make the higher your chance to proc the sigil. Slow weapon will not give you that high of a chance due to double RNG.

EDIT: Ah, you edit it. Well case in point, that 4 attacks from Dagger is done in short amount of time compare to 4 attacks from Sword — meaning less chances to get a crit and a proc in the same time frame.

I never said BOTh have a hundred percent chance to crit. I gave the numbers.

Yeah you edited it, it wasn’t there when I responded. I bet you didn’t see my edit either. lol

Now the time frame is what you are focused on. Not material with the ICD. It might trigger earlier on dagger but then it will not trigger again until the ICD gone.

When I said you need a “faster weapon” and “frequency”, time frame is implied.

Again, the point you’re missing is that the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency.

Time frame must acknowledge the cooldown.

The extra speed of the dagger and the frequency at which it strikes is not material when in ICD. The longer an ICD the less that advantage. The speed of the daggers in the AA for 3 attacks is less than a 1 second advantage. The difference in chances to proc is not that great. It there but the longer the ICD the less material it is.

I’ll just repeat myself here, “the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency” so yes, the ICD has been acknowledged.

I showed you the math on that players build. All the sword or dagger useruser has to do is get off 4 attacks (assuming fury up) in order to proc a sigil.

The attack sequence of the AA on sword is 2.52 seconds getting three attacks. The sequence on the AA of a dagger is 2.07 seconds a difference of less than half a second. All sword needs is one more attack to get that assured proc via math .45 plus the extra time needed on that next attack . (the full attack squence of the aa on daggers is 4 attacks so sword needs one more) the difference is less than 1 second total.

Now you can certainly use DB on daggers so as to lower the time needed for those 4 attacks but power builds really do not use DB. here the difference would a little over 2 seconds.

You then have to look at who gets more cleaves, which style of combat has a person attacking more frequently and so on.

That gap gets bigger over time.

Let’s assume that you have 100% cri and 100% proc rate and in a 60 seconds time frame, dagger would have proc’d the sigil more than sword.

Basically, the ICD of the sigil on the sword is not just 5s, but aprrox. 5.75s because of how low it is. Looking at it that way, you’ll see that sword’s proc frequency drops off over time in comparison to dagger.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

I disagree on the point regarding proccing a sigil with a sword. There a cooldown anyways meaning in a 3 second or 5 second period you will get as many procs off a sword as off a dagger. The build has a 59 percent base crit rate meaning in a 5 or even 3 second period of time math suggest there will be a proc even with slower weapons.

If you were proccing an item with a 1 second cooldown than faster is better. as in a sigil of strength would not be a great fit.

You got double RNG on these sigils (Crit chance + chance to proc on crit) meaning that to reliably proc them, you need a faster weapon — frequency is the key.

Have you even tried to compare them yourself in the Mist?

But if you really believe that the proc rate of the sigil on a sword is the same as on the dagger, then I’ll leave just you to that belief.

You are not doing the math. I never said the proc rate comparable. Dagger will proc FASTER but the cooldown cancels that out.

Proc with a dagger at 1 second. it will not proc again on fire for 4 more seconds no matter how fast it is. In that 4 seconds time your sword will proc. That unless you just not attacking.

his crit rate is 60 percent base meaning with fury 80 percent of attacks will crit. Fire procs at 50 percent meaning in a 5 second period all he needs is 4 hits to get one proc
(4*.8)=3.2 crits 3.2*.5 =1.6.

Now obviously you can get bad rolls all in a row but a understated the number of attacks you will usually do in a 5 second period.

This is the only test that matters. Forget how early in that attack cycle you get a proc with daggers versus sword. How many fire procs do you get every 5 seconds using sword. ? It is not less then dagger.

I believe in math.

You’re missing the point. You’re assuming that both have 100% chance to Crit and 100% chance to proce — that’s not the case.

My point is, the more you attack, the higher you chance to crit and the more crit you make the higher your chance to proc the sigil. Slow weapon will not give you that high of a chance due to double RNG.

EDIT: Ah, you edit it. Well case in point, that 4 attacks from Dagger is done in short amount of time compare to 4 attacks from Sword — meaning less chances to get a crit and a proc in the same time frame.

I never said BOTh have a hundred percent chance to crit. I gave the numbers.

Yeah you edited it, it wasn’t there when I responded. I bet you didn’t see my edit either. lol

Now the time frame is what you are focused on. Not material with the ICD. It might trigger earlier on dagger but then it will not trigger again until the ICD gone.

When I said you need a “faster weapon” and “frequency”, time frame is implied.

Again, the point you’re missing is that the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency.

Time frame must acknowledge the cooldown.

The extra speed of the dagger and the frequency at which it strikes is not material when in ICD. The longer an ICD the less that advantage. The speed of the daggers in the AA for 3 attacks is less than a 1 second advantage. The difference in chances to proc is not that great. It there but the longer the ICD the less material it is.

I’ll just repeat myself here, “the sooner you can put the sigil on CD, the sooner you can proc it again — frequency” so yes, the ICD has been acknowledged.

I showed you the math on that players build. All the sword or dagger useruser has to do is get off 4 attacks (assuming fury up) in order to proc a sigil.

The attack sequence of the AA on sword is 2.52 seconds getting three attacks. The sequence on the AA of a dagger is 2.07 seconds a difference of less than half a second. All sword needs is one more attack to get that assured proc via math .45 plus the extra time needed on that next attack . (the full attack squence of the aa on daggers is 4 attacks so sword needs one more) the difference is less than 1 second total.

Now you can certainly use DB on daggers so as to lower the time needed for those 4 attacks but power builds really do not use DB. here the difference would a little over 2 seconds.

You then have to look at who gets more cleaves, which style of combat has a person attacking more frequently and so on.

That gap gets bigger over time.

Let’s assume that you have 100% cri and 100% proc rate and in a 60 seconds time frame, dagger would have proc’d the sigil more than sword.

Basically, the ICD of the sigil on the sword is not just 5s, but aprrox. 5.75s because of how low it is. Looking at it that way, you’ll see that sword’s proc frequency drops off over time in comparison to dagger.

Well I will do the math. In every calculation I will give the numbers in your favor so as example , I am suggesting 4 attacks needed with that original build to trigger a proc when it actually three. I will round UP the time needed to get those 4 hits for sword and will round down for dagger.

In order to proc a sigil we would add the ICD to the time it will take to get 4 attacks so for fire.

Using dagger ICD 5 seconds plus 2 seconds (to get those 4 attacks) or 7 seconds total. In a 60 second period the number of procs you can get at maximum would be 60/7 or 8.6 procs.

For sword it 5 seconds ICD plus 3 seconds or 8 seconds and 60/8 = 7.5 procs.

in other words in the minute you suggest there will be one more proc for dagger .

Now fire was nerfed recently but again I will pad the numbers in your favor and with that extra proc give 800 more damage.

Over a minutes time 800 more damage is not statistically significant. yes it comes in a burst but having 1 less proc in minutes time of a fire sigil will not change much on the battlefield and that assuming the guy using a dagger based build is engaged with the enemy with attacks for just as many total seconds as they guy with the sword based build. When comparing d/d as example to s/d I will suggest in a minutes time s/d will get off more total attacks and be directly engaged with the enemy for more of those 60 seconds than will d/d.

When it comes to a burst, 2s attack sequence is more favorable than a 3s attack sequence. I agree that in the battlefiled that other things can happen, but the OPs build is built around proc’ing the sigils and he got better chance of proc’ing those with a dagger.

I mean his power is only 2050, so he’s relying for the procs to bring in damage. I guess he got more problem with his build than just the sigils and weapons.