Guild Wars 2

First, im not here to tell arenanet how to change unload, im just saying what i think would be a step in the right direction.

How the skill works right now, it deals damage from range, leaving the thief extremely vulnerable. If the thief would use said unload + blackpowder it would cost too much init.
Lets take a look at the nr3 skills on other weapon sets.
S/d has evade-damage-boon steal, s/p has stun-evade-damage, shortbow has evade-cripple, d/p blind/gabcloser/damge and d/d has evade-bleeds tho the evade on this one is very unreliable. They all have some form of defense on low initiative cost + damage.

So i think all that has to be added is is a defensive effect on this skill, like an evade frame, or the first bullet blinds AoE or useable while dodging as sugfested on another thread in thief forums.

Let me know what you think.

The main issue I see is that unload is a channel that does pretty decent damage. Like other channels (volley and rapid fire) it makes sense to me that it can be interrupted.

Unload does great damage without sacrificing movement, so giving it an evade would make it over-powered when compared to something like Pistol Whip.

Personally, I’d love to see Unload have a 20% chance per hit to remove a boon from the target. Combined with Ricochet, that would be a pretty wicked and viable alternative to short bow in group fights.

an evade could be too strong, but 20% chance is just RNG and i dont like that so i would go with the first bullet removes a boon so it is dodgeable and not like IP which u cant dodge.

Adding random, unnecessary things here and there usually breaks the game.

Stand on a wall or roof and then unload. Melee fighters won’t touch you = 100% evade.

An easy solution would be add an F2 ability to thief that is unlocked when you have two pistols equip. The F2 skill could be a shadow step/blink or withdraw like move to give then set the extra mobility it need because that all its lacking tbh.

Also you can only use the skill when two pistol are equiped so if you weap swap u cant use it and it should use initiative and have a cd like steal.

Would it be too powerful to add a form of vulnerability to unload?

The problem with P/P isnt unload. I’d say dps wise unload is in a very good place. It would probably be close to on par with pistol whip… and its ranged.

The problem with P/P is the fact that your main atk is weak and the set offers no utility.

Everyone thinks Pistol whip is pretty awesome dps but in reality its only around a 10-20% increase in dps compared to normal atk. Unload on the other had, your looking at probably close to a double if not more increase in DPS.

IMO initiative should be readjusted for the P/P set so it isnt as initatiave starved and i think then it would be in a more balanced place. If unload was more spamable, the dps would be more comparable to the melee sets but instead of stealth, utility and evade you just have range.

MyCondolences.8172:

The problem with P/P isnt unload. I’d say dps wise unload is in a very good place. It would probably be close to on par with pistol whip… and its ranged.

The problem with P/P is the fact that your main atk is weak and the set offers no utility.

Everyone thinks Pistol whip is pretty awesome dps but in reality its only around a 10-20% increase in dps compared to normal atk. Unload on the other had, your looking at probably close to a double if not more increase in DPS.

IMO initiative should be readjusted for the P/P set so it isnt as initatiave starved and i think then it would be in a more balanced place. If unload was more spamable, the dps would be more comparable to the melee sets but instead of stealth, utility and evade you just have range.

This is what I’ve always argued. It’s quite obvious even from casual analysis that Vital Shot is underpowered and fires too slowly for both its physical damage and the length of its bleed (this is true of the Engineer’s Pistol as well). This creates a situation where P/P is too dependent on Unload for damage, which in turn renders the set’s utility impotent. It’s a double-whammy, too, since Unload is a channel skill you also don’t have full mobility.

So, in a nutshell, P/P can be described as:
Poor utility
Poor mobility
Poor sustained damage
Decent burst

All three of the first things aren’t worth sacrificing for the last thing, and it’s all brought on by Vital Shot being too weak. And, yes, it’s too weak for P/D too, it’s just that P/D’s other skills mask it better.

If they reduced Vital Shot’s aftercast time by maybe .06 to .1 seconds, you’d suddenly see a much more functional set. Your bleeds would compete better with other bleed sources, and your DPS would stop tanking when stop spamming Unload to move, access utility, or let your Ini regen.

I actually find it quite staggering that this hasn’t been identified and corrected yet, it’s probably the most macro level balance issue that’s affected Thieves since launch.

they could make vital shot a dual skill that switches to pure power scaling when you are p/p

and they could make unload cleanse cripple/chill/immobilize to make up for mobility without being like the other dual skills

So i decided to do some actual testing with P/P set and see how it went. TBH i was quite surprised, it wasnt quite as weak as i was expecting it to be. The DPS wasnt astonishing but by no means did i find it weak. I also found that the initiative use wasn’t too horrible, by that i mean i was constantly at low initiative but it wasnt too long before i could cast unload again and the only reason I’ll complain about that is just because unload is such a significant portion of the DPS.

My only real disappointment with the set was that with the trait investment needed, i had no room to invest any points in dodge and it felt like i was face tanking mobs the whole time which was kind of annoying considering this is a ranged set.

TBH i dont think the set needs too much work to be usuable as a main set. Personally i think any one of the following would make it a worthwhile set.
1. Add an evade or teleport to Unload so your not face tanking with a ranged set.
2. Lower the resource cost of Unload to 4.
3. Increase the dmg of vital shot.
4. Add some sort of movement impairing effect so again your not facetanking.

personally i hate skills that deal damage and evade,
defence and offence should be decisions.

skills like PW are offenders of this, why bother using anything else when you can click 3 to deal huge damage, stun your target and evade damage?

plus with the right build Unload can amazing damage, throw in ricochet and signet of malice and it also heals for alot more than healing signet too!