Guild Wars 2

…because this isn’t wow if you want wow thief run war with stealth kits!

I believe the simplest way to express why people hate Thieves is “Low risk; High reward”. When D/D Eles had an easier time of doing this as well as being good in general they were hated as well. If Warriors were a stronger PvP class they would probably be intensely hated when running good disengage tools too.

Ultimately, when I try and play on my Necro, I will lose at times. The penalty for my loss is a repair cost and a loot bag for my opponent. When I play on my Thief, the penalty for losing is reappearing 2000 units away and using the /laugh emote. This raises an eyebrow.

I can agree to a point, but rewarded what? we can kill 1 player in wvw that’s it? So we got easier time maybe collecting one bag from wvw drop if anything drops? Look at how other classes are rewarded for tagging enemies in mass cant really say we are getting rewarded unless you count a 1v1 victory against someone not even paying attention a reward, I wouldn’t call it one. This is only in wvw, we cant farm pve for mass rewards like any other class either, so think about it we are least rewarded class.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Snip

I have to disagree that there was/is (I still play my rogue in wow) one way to get back into stealth simply because leaving combat was a way to get back into stealth. disabling an opponent, or sprinting away became and still are very good ways to get back into stealth and with ways to remove dots getting back into stealth was never a problem in WoW but I digress.

I don’t think that there needs to be any mechanic changed to thieves here, or any stats added. Decrease the burst damage, and increase their DPS overall. Still don’t know why Cerberus.1937 is against having more damage, but I do understand the aversion to having more visible fighting because it feels less thief like.

But you have to have something… Heck if it were my thief there would be no combat Just pickpocketing, taking gold and planting poisoned food.

But if people were dying every time they ate a food buff heads would roll.

This is a combat oriented game, but thieves are not a combat oriented archetype. There has to be a concession somewhere. We agree that just having some stealth and tricky abilities makes you thief enough, and they agree there will be no mechanics that require our characters to hire food testers.

I don’t know what to say. The mental gymnastics necessary to reconstruct denying your opponents a reward when you reap them all as something of low value are so vast and alien that I shudder at the mere thought of attempting to understand them. I find the shortbow appropriate for mass tagging, to be quite frank, so I don’t really believe Thieves can be described as lacking when it comes to tagging.

@TainoFuerte.8136
lol you wouldn’t be here complaining about thieves if they were able to tag well they would just jump into the zerg along with everyone else and you wouldn’t even notice them. To make this more easy to understand; what is it you want, ill make a list:
1 if you nerf Initiative for heartseeker and stealth spam you will get more backstab thieves…wait I thought you didn’t like those.
2 if you nerf backstab or dmg you will get more stealth spam thieves….wait you don’t like those either.
3 if you nerf stealth you get dead class stealth skills become useless and takes an act of god to land any hits….this is what you want….why not just ask for thief class removed to save you the step by step destruction of the class.

Yes I can say this because I run all classes and it comes down to war for pve just stand there and hit 2 till everything is dead. Mesmer for pvp because no1 can keep you target locked before they are dead. Thief and ranger for solo roaming; with guard for dungeon and fotm. Leaving necro for killing mobs for loot. I leave out ele because its good at everything and d/d is op no matter how you want to say it easily 3v1 in pvp and wvw. Don’t want to bring up other class to incite more nerfs to that one either im sure you know what it is gets as many nerfs as thief despite being most bugged class.

The OP seems to have unrealistic expectations. He wants to play a thief and play like a coward, but also wants people to not hate him.

I mean – either keep your cake or eat it. If you’re gonna play like a troll, then own up to it and don’t expect others to like you. Don’t come crying to the forums railing against thief hate when thieves don’t play honorably.

Oh, they’re not built that way you say? Well then they’re also built to be hated! Get used to it.

cerberus.1937:

@TainoFuerte.8136
lol you wouldn’t be here complaining about thieves if they were able to tag well they would just jump into the zerg along with everyone else and you wouldn’t even notice them.

I see Thieves in zergs. I play Thief, and I go into zergs. When I do, I have no problems with tagging. Autoattack and Cluster Bomb are both mobile, cast quickly, and are reusable quickly, this makes them exceptional at tagging multiple targets when following a quick moving train. Based on my experience, you are incorrect, and seem to be intentionally downplaying the strength of the class, both when it comes to tagging and and when it comes to the benefits of low risk, high reward play.

WTB reading lessons for bhagwad.4281; apparently, he cant read I play ALL class unlike this subjective Mesmer calling a thief a coward; that’s a good one keep hiding behind your clones, stealth, invulnerable, and moa morph that will get you the respect you so crave. end sarcasm!

TainoFuerte.8136 do you see anyone here complaining about zerging thieves …i didnt think so. I guess your point is they have 1 skill that can be used to tag thanks for pointing out that 1 skill. As far as the auto attack that 3 targets every class has that and it doesn’t do much dmg for the short range but I guess that cluster bomb makes up for all the others classes spammable aoe tag skills. Also forget to mention that if you in a zerg and rely on cluster to do any dmg you are running a ber Initiative build which doesn’t allow for much return fire from opposing zerg.

bhagwad.4281:

The OP seems to have unrealistic expectations. He wants to play a thief and play like a coward, but also wants people to not hate him.

I mean – either keep your cake or eat it. If you’re gonna play like a troll, then own up to it and don’t expect others to like you. Don’t come crying to the forums railing against thief hate when thieves don’t play honorably.

Oh, they’re not built that way you say? Well then they’re also built to be hated! Get used to it.

You are spot on. The OP doesn’t care why thieves are hated. He just wants to rant at people over why he thinks they shouldn’t be hated.

cerberus.1937:

…why not just ask for thief class removed to save you the step by step destruction of the class.

please destroy the class, the rest of us need some thief tears :P

^ +1 for honesty lol

LOL just making remarks how pointless we hate thieves because they are thieves is. FYI I haven’t played thief for awhile now because this low risk HIGH REWARDS = Kill 1 unskilled player maybe get one loot bag with 1boh or mat if your lucky and listen to person you killed QQ for 30 min after that or just flat out cuss you out. Instead I moved onto spvp where I get to listen to people QQ how op ele and ranger are; in the end the skilled player wins there is no shortage of counters for thieves if you actually played one you would know that. Moving on waiting for an actual reason to hate other than because thief is a thief and we think its unfair.

cerberus.1937:

Moving on waiting for an actual reason to hate other than because thief is a thief and we think its unfair.

I told you in great detail the reasons.

You don’t agree with those reasons? Well that is fine but those are still the reasons. you may not like Justin beiber either but he is still popular for reasons you also may not agree with. Doesn’t make it any less true.

cant compare gw2 to AC or wow sry doesn’t work that way but at least your not screaming op nerf it. I will agree on the end to nerfs and looking into possibility of making it useful in other areas of the game. I enjoy thief and this is ruining it for me.

I didn’t compare GW2 to WoW game. I compared Thieves (the assassin class in GW2) to the assassin archetype in every game and genre.

You just don’t like the answer, I assume because you feel everyone should love assassins. News flash, No one loves assassins except for the people that hire them, or the assassins themselves. If more people love you than hate you as an assassin you are not doing your job right. At least that’s the rule I play my characters by.

Personally I think they should buff thieves. I’ve said that. Doesn’t change that I definitely understand why people hate them.

You assume by thief hate I was asking why people don’t like thieves; don’t misunderstand, by thief hate I mean constant QQ for nerfs and the nerfs that follow. People don’t like any class killing them, so what they deal with it and move on, maybe it could have been worded better, but idc if people “like” the class. Most classes can kill you better players are great with any class. Same principle with using the term boon hate.

Simply put, Thief defensive and offensive ability sticks out more than anyone else in general PvP context.

In sPvP or WvW it is easier for people to remember those 5 times that they were instantly killed by a thief and get angry over it, than the 50 times they were completely stomped by a mesmer. Because even when the mesmer completely stomped their face in, they still got him to half life even if they didn’t realize he hadn’t even healed yet.

Yes only a few thieves may be doing it, and perhaps it is all they can do. But it doesn’t matter to the person on the other side.

It comes down to 1 main thing, you are correct people don’t like any class killing them, but they dislike even more a class killing them when they don’t get the chance to fight back, even if the fighting back was completely futile it at least feels like they have a chance.

have you tried thief in pvp? I don’t know how thieves are doing it in wvw but pvp thief don’t instakill anyone or anything period. The wvw thieves may be using something that is not supposed to be there cheats ect in which case they will be banned for it; it would not be the first time people did dumb stuff in wvw and got in trouble for it remember the orbs? Anyway its not possible to instakill by any means at all in spvp as a person who plays thief ele mesmer and ranger in pvp I can tell you for a fact it isn’t possible, but I play fairly and don’t cheat so cant speak for those that don’t play fair. Food has a lot to do with wvw power and crits but still no reason to nerf the one thing a class is good at.

Actually they can. Here is a great video showing what damage a thief can do.

The 3 attacks (usually with a proc) can land within 1 second. This is generally too fast for a person to react to giving the feeling of a 1 shot, or dead before I can fight back.

1/3 of the classes in the game have a base 10k health, and getting over 18k health is not only tough for them but harmful to any other stats. But would that matter?

This thief is dealing 26k damage in less time than is reasonable to think someone can react to. this is on top of the fact that generally when you encounter a thief you are already engaged or otherwise in a position not in your favor, while completely in their favor.

So it can be done.

often? Not at all. But they don’t see that they see I got one shot by that thief again! RAGE!

On a side note. there is a really good reason to “nerf” the one thing you are good at.

1. Nerf Burst damage
2. increase overall DPS
3. make DPS sustainable
4. add survivability through utility

Now your thief deals more damage in PvP, is on par with other DPS in PvE and has the option to go for more builds because killing someone quickly isn’t the only option. (but still an option)

This is pretty much what all games do to their thief class eventually because everyone hates the 1 shot, and thieves hate the pigeonhole.

right and theres a vid of thieves hitting over 30k in wvw doesn’t mean they are not cheating haven’t seen one thief in any tourney at all hit anywhere near that. Have over 3k tourney played with 4/8 classes with their tourney title. But to each their own look at any high ranked tourney or ask any good pvp player; thieves cannot instakill in pvp that’s all there is to it.

if people wanted sustain and no stealth they would roll war or ranger stop making thief into your class

cerberus.1937:

WTB reading lessons for bhagwad.4281; apparently, he cant read I play ALL class unlike this subjective Mesmer calling a thief a coward; that’s a good one keep hiding behind your clones, stealth, invulnerable, and moa morph that will get you the respect you so crave. end sarcasm!

WTB lessons for OP to learn to construct a proper title.

cerberus.1937:

You assume by thief hate I was asking why people don’t like thieves; don’t misunderstand, by thief hate I mean constant QQ for nerfs and the nerfs that follow. People don’t like any class killing them, so what they deal with it and move on, maybe it could have been worded better, but idc if people “like” the class. Most classes can kill you better players are great with any class. Same principle with using the term boon hate.

I don’t mind a guardian, warrior, necro, or ranger killing me. No one else minds either. How come they don’t complain about nerfing them hmm? That’s because those classes don’t play like cowards.

Play a thief, and you will be hated. What’s your problem with that?

cerberus.1937:

if people wanted sustain and no stealth they would roll war or ranger stop making thief into your class

so what you say, should justify 1 hitting ability on an invisible class ??

@bhagwad.4281
LMAO couldn’t come up with good argument so moves on to a different topic go back to trolling your memser threads.

@ eldain stenlund.4306
im sure you heard lp2 a lot but since no top players are running thief and ones that are are getting owned by the others that is ex your issue. Look at the top leaderboards you will find ele, Mesmer, necro, guard, engi, and ranger. You will not find any even just ok players getting one shotted no matter what. If you want to count a match between top tier thief and new war running full zerker then sure with 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vunerable on war and a few other factors you might get close to an instant kill but still not a good argument.

Anyone else think its ironic that the Mesmer with stealth and lots of other things thief does not have is calling thief a coward…..bhagwad.4281 for the last time your in no position to call anyone cowards with what you run try being more cheat than STEALTH, CLONES, INVUNERABLE, BLOCK, IMOBALIZE, GREAT SINGLE AND MULTI TARGET DMG, TELEPORTS, AND VERY SPAMMABLE CONDITIONS ALL WITH LOCK BREAKERS. you are only proving your ignorance in thinking you can do all these things and still be “honorable” way to make us laugh.

Lokki.1092:

Actually they can. Here is a great video showing what damage a thief can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJTJOB0DXTo

The 3 attacks (usually with a proc) can land within 1 second. This is generally too fast for a person to react to giving the feeling of a 1 shot, or dead before I can fight back.

1/3 of the classes in the game have a base 10k health, and getting over 18k health is not only tough for them but harmful to any other stats. But would that matter?

This thief is dealing 26k damage in less time than is reasonable to think someone can react to. this is on top of the fact that generally when you encounter a thief you are already engaged or otherwise in a position not in your favor, while completely in their favor.

So it can be done.

often? Not at all. But they don’t see that they see I got one shot by that thief again! RAGE!

DMG Values is actually the only thing what the most player interest, without wasting even a thought to the defense.
So its normal that a glasscannon thief killed ONE light amored glassconnon Ele, where is the problem?

Dont you understand the logic behind SINGLETARGET weapons, the thief and the disadvantages of using gc builds.

cerberus.1937:

@ eldain stenlund.4306
im sure you heard lp2 a lot but since no top players are running thief and ones that are are getting owned by the others that is ex your issue. Look at the top leaderboards you will find ele, Mesmer, necro, guard, engi, and ranger. You will not find any even just ok players getting one shotted no matter what. If you want to count a match between top tier thief and new war running full zerker then sure with 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vunerable on war and a few other factors you might get close to an instant kill but still not a good argument.

Iam talking about 1 hitting ANY class should not be allowed.
Its just that i got insta killed at 12 k hp, no chanse to react what so ever, while i used 2.5 k heavy armor… it realy got me to react.
I have been 3 hitted when using more armor and more hp, but only thought it was a fluke…
guess not, since i see this in wvw all time when i realy looked at it.

thieves need to be reworked or balanced or what ever you want to call it.

cerberus.1937:

TainoFuerte.8136 do you see anyone here complaining about zerging thieves …i didnt think so.

I never said people were complaining about zerging Thieves. What does that have to do with anything?

I guess your point is they have 1 skill that can be used to tag thanks for pointing out that 1 skill.

No problem. Autoattack and 2 away for your bags.

cant compare pvp and wvw, wvw I can see it more in wvw because of the non restrictions of attacks and the allow of food and such, even so it isn’t likely w/o something else, but that isn’t so in pvp. Not to mention ele can do insane burst and sustain while hitting 1-2 skills to be at full health with crazy condition removal and mobility and don’t need stealth to 3v1.

Black Teagan.9215:

Lokki.1092:

Actually they can. Here is a great video showing what damage a thief can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJTJOB0DXTo

The 3 attacks (usually with a proc) can land within 1 second. This is generally too fast for a person to react to giving the feeling of a 1 shot, or dead before I can fight back.

1/3 of the classes in the game have a base 10k health, and getting over 18k health is not only tough for them but harmful to any other stats. But would that matter?

This thief is dealing 26k damage in less time than is reasonable to think someone can react to. this is on top of the fact that generally when you encounter a thief you are already engaged or otherwise in a position not in your favor, while completely in their favor.

So it can be done.

often? Not at all. But they don’t see that they see I got one shot by that thief again! RAGE!

DMG Values is actually the only thing what the most player interest, without wasting even a thought to the defense.
So its normal that a glasscannon thief killed ONE light amored glassconnon Ele, where is the problem?

Dont you understand the logic behind SINGLETARGET weapons, the thief and the disadvantages of using gc builds.

There is no point in getting fully tanked as warrior. they cant tank anyways.
what happens is:
you kitten your dmg considerably, but still die horribly fast.

Gw2 is not using trinity… its using singularity.
“kill them faster than they kill you”.

And that is a realy bad way to walk.

I never said anything about no stealth… I said less burst damage, more DPS.

you said you didn’t even play your thief because of all the nerfs. well they will keep coming as long as thieves are posting 15k+ backstabs. If you don’t believe its possible with screenshot and video evidence then I cant do anything about that.

You complain about being a one trick pony then complain at the idea of not being a one trick pony… Don’t know what to tell you.

People hate Thieves because of the above video,
Thieves get nerfed because of the above video.
Easily fixable.

cant compare pvp and wvw, wvw I can see it more in wvw because of the non restrictions of attacks and the allow of food and such, even so it isn’t likely w/o something else, but that isn’t so in pvp. Not to mention ele can do insane burst and sustain while hitting 1-2 skills to be at full health with crazy condition removal and mobility and don’t need stealth to 3v1.

You are still missing the point. I wonder if it is intentional.

Lokki.1092:

I never said anything about no stealth… I said less burst damage, more DPS.

you said you didn’t even play your thief because of all the nerfs. well they will keep coming as long as thieves are posting 15k+ backstabs. If you don’t believe its possible with screenshot and video evidence then I cant do anything about that.

You complain about being a one trick pony then complain at the idea of not being a one trick pony… Don’t know what to tell you.

People hate Thieves because of the above video,
Thieves get nerfed because of the above video.
Easily fixable.

I know my mythology…
And loki never tell the truth to people… unless the truth hurt more…

please continue =)

Lokki.1092:

Actually they can. Here is a great video showing what damage a thief can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJTJOB0DXTo

The 3 attacks (usually with a proc) can land within 1 second. This is generally too fast for a person to react to giving the feeling of a 1 shot, or dead before I can fight back.

1/3 of the classes in the game have a base 10k health, and getting over 18k health is not only tough for them but harmful to any other stats. But would that matter?

This thief is dealing 26k damage in less time than is reasonable to think someone can react to. this is on top of the fact that generally when you encounter a thief you are already engaged or otherwise in a position not in your favor, while completely in their favor.

So it can be done.

often? Not at all. But they don’t see that they see I got one shot by that thief again! RAGE!

That scenario never actually happens, because that build is UNPLAYABLE. It is full glass on the glassiest class with no defensive utilities, and minimal access to stealth. There really is no reason to consider a build like that a threat except to afkers, who can be killed by anything. That build cannot go head to head with anything else because they will see it coming, and can probably kill it with ranged before it even gets to them. You could also make a similar build / video for most other classes, including warriors. That would have nearly the same access to stealth (or lack thereof), and be slightly more survivable.

The obnoxious thing is people will complain about permastealth, then post something like this. as an example of the OP-ness of thieves…but the two are not possible on the same build so this video means nothing.

bobross.5034:

so this video means nothing.

No you missed the point.

Firstly I agree this build is unplayable in PvP and not really a threat.
Secondly I do not think thieves are OP

The OP was asking why thieves are hated. Its because the few that run a build like this. (or similar enough) can kill people without them being able to fight back. Even if that thief in the video reduced his damage by 30% for more survivability he would still “one shot” half the classes in the game.

Weather or not this build is good is irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Because we all know it isn’t.

The point is that when people see this, or more so, when they experience this from the pointy side of the dagger, it sticks out more than fighting one of the more powerful PvP classes like guardian or mesmer.

Weather or not the thief is strong at anytime that particular fight/situation is completely unfair in the mind of the opponent because “I couldn’t even fight back!”

The scenario happens more often than you think because of the chaos of WvW after all you cant see every thief around when medium sized skirmishes are going on, and there are ton of people screenshotting and QQing on these very forums about it. So we know it happens.

Also it’s not about one thief doing both, its about multiple. When one thief 1 shots you on the way to a keep, then you encounter another thief that you cannot kill because of their running skills, then a 3rd keeps a node for 30 minutes while 20 of your teammates try to smoke him out. Its easy to go OMG NERF THIEF!

Long time thief/rogue/assassin player here. I know the hate.

Lol and you say I miss the point you are giving one instance which will never happen in play. which any class mostly can do I can do that 4x over to 3 people on a war provided they just stand there, lol please dont point out things that don’t really happen in normal play. Might as well post the pick of the people flying in wvw oh yah they got banned.

Again…

Firstly I agree those builds are unplayable in PvP and not really a threat.
Secondly I do not think thieves are OP

doesn’t change that it does happen. I’m not even going to link the loads of screenshots and videos of 15k+ damage backstabs. you don’t believe them anyways.

It does happen. People hate it. once you understand that you will understand why people hate thieves.

SO nerf the food or put a cap on crit dmg like pvp anything but leave stealth alone like many people have said its power or stealth not both. However if you do limit crit dmg need to buff something else.

^ this is the most anyone would agree too and even that is pushing it since their use of the one build is EXTREMLY situational not not practical for anything else. I would like to see viable thief builds for other areas of the game improved to move thieves out of just their one role in wvw.

cerberus.1937:

^ this is the most anyone would agree too and even that is pushing it since their use of the one build is EXTREMLY situational not not practical for anything else. I would like to see viable thief builds for other areas of the game improved to move thieves out of just their one role in wvw.

Are you sure you want to see other builds? Because I suggested that and you said no. Thieves are DPS if they are not dealing sustained DPS they are not useful outside of bursting someone to death. they also could use more survivability like the other 2 low HP classes.

To give them sustained DPS and survivability, you have to take away their burst. else they would then be OP.

Stealth is fine the way it is. You can still have openers, they can setup for big damage later or rolling damage.

This way there are no more PvP instant kills.

Thieves can jump a high survivable target and actually fight outside of stealth with decent damage.

More survivability and sustained damage opens up less stealth reliant builds.

Thieves would now deal great sustained damage in PvE

And of course, multi stealth, multi opener builds that keep the feeling of an assassin. These 2-3 opener builds would also give the target the chance to try to defend, but also give the thief a quick kill option.

This is pretty much standard in MMOs after the thief nerf/fix train happens.

I said other viable in OTHER areas; stealth is FINE the way it is SERIOUSLY? stealth is meaningless in pve as enemies attach you even in stealth. SO leave give us some aspects to make stealth what it is stealth. As for taking away burst what good is a thief that can only do sustain with REVEAL each time its meaningless.

Oh gawd! Thief damage ohpee
Oh gawd! Infinite dodging
Oh gawd! Permastealth
Oh gawd! Can’t faceroll vs. thief

LOL warriors can wreck thieves and people cant seem to grasp this, just because thieves have stealth you know the backstab is coming and in what timeframe. Smart wars use aoe hammer then hb and thief is dead or ran away (if they are good) before they can land first hit. All power and limited stealth or all Stealth and limited power. I run rangers and no thief can touch me in wvw; friend of mine runs guard same story. Play a thief you know what to expect from them and eles can destroy thieves without them even needing to come out of stealth with their movement and extreme dmg/aoe. ALL classes have a thief counter comes down to player skill.

^
Yea… Thieves dread fighting good warriors! They are scary! Just one hit and poof!
Unfortunately, or should I say fortunately good warriors in WvW are really hard to find.

cerberus.1937:

Anyone else think its ironic that the Mesmer with stealth and lots of other things thief does not have is calling thief a coward…..bhagwad.4281 for the last time your in no position to call anyone cowards with what you run try being more cheat than STEALTH, CLONES, INVUNERABLE, BLOCK, IMOBALIZE, GREAT SINGLE AND MULTI TARGET DMG, TELEPORTS, AND VERY SPAMMABLE CONDITIONS ALL WITH LOCK BREAKERS. you are only proving your ignorance in thinking you can do all these things and still be “honorable” way to make us laugh.

Anyone who compares thief stealth with mesmer stealth…is just high.

^ NO again I wonder if you can read bhagwad.4281 I SAID STEALTH, BLOCK, INVUNERABLE, CLONES, MASS SINGLE/AOE DMG, SPAM CONDITIONS, IMMOBALIZE, AND THE CHEASIEST MOVE IN THE GAME MOA MORPH! You get all that this time or go I need to say it 5 more times you you to get it if your going to try to insult someone at least get your facts strait. You got way more cheese then thief and your proud of it; that is the funniest thing I heard all day. Mesmer complains about honorable duels; lets take away your stealth, clones, and phantasms and see where that leaves you, oh wait we don’t troll your forums.

cerberus.1937:

^ NO again I wonder if you can read bhagwad.4281 I SAID STEALTH, BLOCK, INVUNERABLE, CLONES, MASS SINGLE/AOE DMG, SPAM CONDITIONS, IMMOBALIZE, AND THE CHEASIEST MOVE IN THE GAME MOA MORPH! You get all that this time or go I need to say it 5 more times you you to get it if your going to try to insult someone at least get your facts strait. You got way more cheese then thief and your proud of it; that is the funniest thing I heard all day. Mesmer complains about honorable duels; lets take away your stealth, clones, and phantasms and see where that leaves you, oh wait we don’t troll your forums.

You must be the only person to seriously complain about moa morph. By all means, junk it and give us something useful. If it was so OP why don’t you see every mesmer using it?

All the other abilities can be seen and anticipated. Stealth is the only ridiculous mechanism of the game which removes information from the battle. And don’t start comparing mesmer stealth and thief stealth.

People complain about the thief much more than they complain about mesmers. Can you tell me why? Introspect and you’ll find your answer.

I suggest you go back to your post title. “Why all the thief hate”. Now please tell me how come you’re so suddenly interested in mesmers.