Guild Wars 2

I’ve been seeing lately that the current meta for thieves have become D/P. Most of the ESL tournys (Heck, most of the thieves currently) are running 26006 build with vamp runes or pack runes. Whereas the previous meta was S/D which runs 20066 with either strength/pack runes. In my opinion, I do find the D/P build to be lacking in mobility as compared to the S/D (The feline grace trait and Expeditious dogger trait). Additionaly, in terms of survivability, as thieves get to be relatively squishy, it is to be noticed that D/P don’t have the abundance of dodging as seen in the S/D. However, a player can be good at escaping if he knows correct tactical usage of the smoke + heart combo but this does not guarantee that the D/P thief won’t get hit as compared to the excess dodging of S/D . Also, it is with no doubt that the D/P do have the higher damage in terms of bursting an opponent, whereas the S/D can provide the player with substantial sustain with adequate damage.

Nevertheless, the comparison between these two builds do have its pros and cons but I have yet to understand why D/P have become the current meta for thieves lately.

D/P, or more specifically 26006 or 60206 traits, are more fun to play as. 20066 is still really powerful. Just much more defensive/passive.

I’ve always run d/p since 4s revealed. Don’t prefer acro builds…

You can survive on d/p with stealth times properly and grabbing agility signet helps with those dodges when you are low on init or buying time for a skill to come off cd…

Because the role of the thief has changed a bit. D/p offers more burst, at the cost of weaker 1v1 capabilities on a point. I still run SD in soloq at times because it carries your team if need be, but d/p is better in the role the thief has to fulfill. It works very well in coordination with a burst mesmer, which is why a lot of EU thieves run d/p. Saying that one is more fun than the other is just a matter of preference.

S/D lost most of its damage and all of its “Burst” (note the quotation marks) when they locked LS behind FS hitting its target. Players can now watch a thief spend 4 init and dodge both FS and LS by just dodging FS. The only other decent multiplier in S/D is Crippling strike, and if you’ll almost never get all the way through the AA chain to CS without taking massive damage.

S/D has nothing on any of the meta bruisers, they easily out sustain S/D’s damage and the out damage S/D’s sustain.

S/D keeps slowly giving up more damage for survivability, making it less desirable as a berserker member of a team.
S/D old meta with executioner (2/6/0/0/6) is still viable but harder than D/P and the current S/D build, so is rarely seen.
D/P gave up some damage to go 6/0/2/0/6 for condi cleanse, but stayed with 1 full offensive line unlike S/D.
D/P with panic strike is extremely easy to play. Some thieves even get practically carried by that one trait vs. other berserkers.
D/P as a weapon set is safer when traveling the map due to the on demand stealth.
D/P can stealth it’s allies more often.

So basically there is an easier build for D/P now, it’s safer, and S/D’s superior mobility doesn’t count for as much when running a build that hits like a wet noodle. It wins its fights by out-lasting like a celestial build, but remains weak to conditions and doesn’t give any team support. This will likely change after the changes to trait lines and stats because S/D thieves will have the same offensive stats as other D/P and S/D builds instead of health, boon duration and condition damage, and they will also have panic strike which will even the field vs. panic strike D/P.

Yeah s/d took some hard nerf’s over time. It steals less boons and does less damage.

D/P has just as much protection in blinds that s/d does in evades and still does awesome damage.

s/d is going to take even more of a nerf with the new specializations and FG, not to mention the inability to run both vigorous recovery and pain response.

On the other hard D/P is going to get a boost from either shadow arts or Acro (Vigor d/p never really had in the first place).

So youre going to see s/d just get phased out I think.

Have faith in our specialization to save S/D! I’ll probably still run S/D after tbh. I’ll just go 6/0/6/0/6 with venom share for my basi, stealth on steal for on-demand stealth (I don’t think any of the other master traits in that line are worth taking?), and stealth on res so I don’t need to try and save refuge for downed allies as much.

I actually still prefer to take S/D because of how it allows me to be more of a constant presence. I also find that properly played S/D is much less predictable and therefor harder to fight against than D/P because of how it doesn’t rely on Stealth as much and so isn’t is to a fixed time (or a waste of initiative) during which they can put pressure.
But yeah, I just pick S/D, D/P or even D/D depending on the situation I’m in.
So I wouldn’t necessarily say that D/P phased out S/D, I think it’s got more to do with more people preferring the D/P playstyle.

But in 1v1, the D/P is more likely to win, yes.

I’d seriously take the old Feline Grace over Don’t Stop. They said skill play but I really don’t see how that trait functions with any type of “skill” in it. It’s no different compared to any other BS passive trait.

It’s kinda of a nuisance that Anet took a hard nerf on the S/D considering that it is already a build for experienced players. To be honest, I really love this weapon set due to the abundance of dodging and the ability to go in and out in a clash because of the sword skill 2. It would be a shame if Anet would completely destroy this build in the next expansion considering that the skills in this weapon set are only functional in pvp.

Really appreciate everyone’s input! Let’s just hope Anet would not further deteriorate the current status of thieves. Cheers!

Yeah I’m pretty sure theives you’re seeing in turnies are not using 2/6/0/06 but 6/0/2/0/6 Panic Strike build with condi cleanse on stealth, it plays well into the thieves’ role as a burst initiator, coordinating with your group to take down an important target, with the immob below 50% health usually sealing the deal when theres 3+ people on the target. Usually run w/ a mes, and a medi guard, tho 3 of any zerker comp w/ the PS thief can wreak havoc, stealthing up using BP to gain that initial surprise. Once the team has the advantage the thief can then disengage and fulfill the decap/harass role that S/D does so well, this is the one area where S/D might have a slight advantage but its less important than it used to be.

TL;DR: PS and group stealth make D/P thieves very valuable in team fights in the current meta, moreso than S/D which is more selfish and tanky.

S/D vs D/P 1v1 advantage goes to S/D.

Group play where all you are doing is spiking targets <50% health D/P is better.

The reason you are seeing more D/P in the meta is honestly IMHO the condi clear.

T raw.4658:

S/D vs D/P 1v1 advantage goes to S/D.

Group play where all you are doing is spiking targets <50% health D/P is better.

The reason you are seeing more D/P in the meta is honestly IMHO the condi clear.

I think the reason is more about the Blind. Stomping is one of the most important thing in group fight in PvP and the Skill 5 is really good for that. The capability of D/P to finish off low health foe is also a big plus. It just work best in the current meta.

Thaddeus.4891:

T raw.4658:

S/D vs D/P 1v1 advantage goes to S/D.

Group play where all you are doing is spiking targets <50% health D/P is better.

The reason you are seeing more D/P in the meta is honestly IMHO the condi clear.

I think the reason is more about the Blind. Stomping is one of the most important thing in group fight in PvP and the Skill 5 is really good for that. The capability of D/P to finish off low health foe is also a big plus. It just work best in the current meta.

Because hitting #5 for CnD is much harder than hitting #5 for a smoke field? Or worse, #5 > #2 to be completely sure.
Heck, the standard D/D build has Blind on Stealth, we might aswell run that then.
You have a point on the stomps in that You can use #4 on x/P to interrupt an enemy who’s stomping a teammate of yours, but the thing you posted isn’t very logical :P

Thaddeus.4891:

T raw.4658:

S/D vs D/P 1v1 advantage goes to S/D.

Group play where all you are doing is spiking targets <50% health D/P is better.

The reason you are seeing more D/P in the meta is honestly IMHO the condi clear.

I think the reason is more about the Blind. Stomping is one of the most important thing in group fight in PvP and the Skill 5 is really good for that. The capability of D/P to finish off low health foe is also a big plus. It just work best in the current meta.

The only time a thief is stomping is 1v1.

In that case it doesn’t matter.

If you think laying a Blind Powder for a teammate is the reason then you need to realize 1 pulse every 2 seconds doesn’t ensure a stomp anymore.

Envyme.6018:

I’ve been seeing lately that the current meta for thieves have become D/P.

20066 S/D is great at rotation strategy but is awful when it comes to out-numbering fights. The shift to 26006 D/P is to make sure that when the Thief +1 a fight, they can take out the target ASAP. However, the trade-off is that the Thief would be too squishy to roam…so the Vamp Rune is picked as a cover for this weakness.

Also, it is with no doubt that the D/P do have the higher damage in terms of bursting an opponent, whereas the S/D can provide the player with substantial sustain with adequate damage.

The advantage of D/P over S/D is obvious; higher rate of attacks (meaning more crit procs), backstab and heartseeker.

Nevertheless, the comparison between these two builds do have its pros and cons but I have yet to understand why D/P have become the current meta for thieves lately.

Ever since they nerfed Flanking Strike in both cost and hit requirement to trigger LS, it became difficult to counter other builds. The cost itself is simply punishing and not very rewarding — the damage and animation are just lazily implemented.

With D/P, if you go roam with a Guardian or Ele, you’re sure to take a node in no time — but it depends on your team strategy. Just look at oRNG, their 3 guys form a solid team in defending a node while their Guardian and Thief roam together.

IMO, solo roaming will phase out for now and probably return after the expack.

D/P simply offers more damage potential while maintaining an equal amount of defense/survivability (I count blinds as defense).

T raw.4658:

Thaddeus.4891:

T raw.4658:

S/D vs D/P 1v1 advantage goes to S/D.

Group play where all you are doing is spiking targets <50% health D/P is better.

The reason you are seeing more D/P in the meta is honestly IMHO the condi clear.

I think the reason is more about the Blind. Stomping is one of the most important thing in group fight in PvP and the Skill 5 is really good for that. The capability of D/P to finish off low health foe is also a big plus. It just work best in the current meta.

The only time a thief is stomping is 1v1.

In that case it doesn’t matter.

If you think laying a Blind Powder for a teammate is the reason then you need to realize 1 pulse every 2 seconds doesn’t ensure a stomp anymore.

When a target drops, the attackers rush to cleave, and the allies of that downed rush to either res or use them as bait to cleave as well (trade-blows if they think they will come out on-top).

In either event, whichever side you’re on, a blinding field can help reduce the incoming damage quite a bit.