Guild Wars 2

Is there something wrong with a p/d cond build? I never really see anyone use it. I love it personally, with a decent build I can roam or run with a zerg fairly effectively.

Im just curious, and I would like to keep the hate down to a minimum

I’m just guessing since I don’t WvW, but I assume a single target attrition build doesn’t do well in Zerg v Zerg – especially when you have the option to instead run D/D, which will allow you to drop bleeds on up to 5 targets per DB.

It’s hard to use in a zerg because to get maximum Bleed Spread, you have to constantly be popping into stealth and using Ricochet. D/D is simply better in a zerg environment. While I would say that P/D is amazing as Conditions build in a one on one situation. I never knew how fun Torment was! I’m gonna be trying to experiment with something related to stacking torment on targets.

P/D
-Attrition Build (Slow)
-Single Target Pressure
-Condition Thief is usually scoffed at for being lower DPS than D/D or D/P

In the higher tiers, most players run active and/or passive condition removal. In addition, a great number of players are running Melandru runes and Lemon Poultry food to reduce condition duration significantly (Warrior’s may also use Berserker stance to shed conditions instantly). P/D is a good harasser but hardly puts enough pressure like a D/D, D/P or S/D Thief can, and most of their damage can be mitigated or removed.

While I enjoy the Ricochet, its no substitute for piercing shots. Targets will often get between you and the target you’re attempting to stack conditions on. With Ricochet, you have no control over where the shots go – which is fine for power builds but falls apart for condition ones.

With the large number of players and tremendous amount of condition cleansing going on in WvW, P/D just isn’t as favorable.

Thanks for the helpful replys everyone, im still rather new and and trying to absorb as much knowledge as I can.

Well P/D is a really great weaponset, but it’s about playstyle, i prefer direct damage

P/D is fine. A friend of mine uses it with a venomshare build, and it’s pretty effective in a number of situations.

Does P/D work as a power/ precision build? Sneak Attack (AA when stealthed) is a pretty beefy chunk of direct damage, as well as the bleeds.

Oghier.7419:

Does P/D work as a power/ precision build? Sneak Attack (AA when stealthed) is a pretty beefy chunk of direct damage, as well as the bleeds.

I can’t comment on it from a competitive perspective, but I had a lot of luck soloing Camps due to the consistent access to stealth with CnD in P/D. The “Stealth Shots” move happens to be a weaker version of unload that doesn’t require you to waste initiative, so I was definitely a big fan. It will never be as much damage as Backstab, but it has it’s merits in survivability.

I currently want to try a build that involves Poison, Torment, and Bleed stacks.

Oghier.7419:

Does P/D work as a power/ precision build? Sneak Attack (AA when stealthed) is a pretty beefy chunk of direct damage, as well as the bleeds.

No,

The auto-attack on pistol is really weak for direct damage. You can use it for conditions, however if you want physical damage pistol is the worst weapon for it.

It’s a range set that requires you to be in melee range and it’s pure condition. Can also be used as a tanky set that generally isn’t needed for anything other than trolling with it’s survival power.

Direct damage is just far better on Thief for everything and P/D can’t achieve that. Other classes also do condition dmg better. They don’t have to run around hoping people step in caltrops to get 25 stacks.

OIIIIIO.7825:

Oghier.7419:

Does P/D work as a power/ precision build? Sneak Attack (AA when stealthed) is a pretty beefy chunk of direct damage, as well as the bleeds.

No,

The auto-attack on pistol is really weak for direct damage. You can use it for conditions, however if you want physical damage pistol is the worst weapon for it.

Is it fair to say this? The problem with ANY pistols-first build is that the auto-attack is kitten unless your are conditions. Pistol’s builds focused around Crit Damage are all Initiative dependent for damage. P/D due to the fact that you have to spam CnD when you can to do any damage from Stealth, and P/P due to Unload Spam.

The benefit to these builds is that you don’t have to be in the front lines, being the primary target of the Zerg when it gets sight of a nice juicy paperweight. (NOTE: Except for P/D since it requires you to jump into melee range to hit CnD )

@Valvador.4291
It is not only fair to say this but accurate.

While using P/D with a Power/Precision build will “work” as in the skills will still trigger when you use them, it will not “work” as in allow you to kill things quickly.

As a person that left P/D to run condi specced D/D I can say that one of the major reasons I left is that the whole set revolves around hitting CnD, and everyone knows that it revolves around hitting CnD.

This is less of an issue with more bursty builds, as target don’t usually have a lot of time to figure out what’s going on, but at this point in the game anyone who has spent any time in PvP of any sort automatically knows that as soon as they get hit with a sneak attack, they can stop worrying about damage and start dodging CnD until you either leave or get stuck autoattacking.

The other problem with P/D is that it can’t cover its bleeds with other conditions very well. At best you’ve got a reliable cripple from dodgetrops, but then you’re investing to to acrobatics for a weaponset that’s built around stealth.

Application is great, but even though you can theoretically apply bleeds in to infinity, your build is wrecked by missing a few CnDs, and even when it is working, any spec with passive condition removal is going to mitigate the majority of your condition damage, and your white damage isn’t all that great.

Contrast this with D/D, which syngergises really well with an acrobatics spec, comes with three reliable cover conditions (poison, weakness, and cripple) without using any utility slots, does better white damage, can spike down low HP targets with hearseeker spam, and can hit multiple targets and you start to see why the set is a bit unpopular in PvP. It takes too long to kill people, and its sustain can’t be used to hold points.

It is, as other people have noted, probably the best platform for venomshare specs due to the venoms creating the cover conditions it lacks, and the group dynamic making it much easier to land CnDs in the middle of a more chaotic fight. If I were going to run venomshare, I’d totally go back to P/D for it.

PopeUrban.2578:

As a person that left P/D to run condi specced D/D I can say that one of the major reasons I left is that the whole set revolves around hitting CnD, and everyone knows that it revolves around hitting CnD.

This is less of an issue with more bursty builds, as target don’t usually have a lot of time to figure out what’s going on, but at this point in the game anyone who has spent any time in PvP of any sort automatically knows that as soon as they get hit with a sneak attack, they can stop worrying about damage and start dodging CnD until you either leave or get stuck autoattacking.

The other problem with P/D is that it can’t cover its bleeds with other conditions very well. At best you’ve got a reliable cripple from dodgetrops, but then you’re investing to to acrobatics for a weaponset that’s built around stealth.

Application is great, but even though you can theoretically apply bleeds in to infinity, your build is wrecked by missing a few CnDs, and even when it is working, any spec with passive condition removal is going to mitigate the majority of your condition damage, and your white damage isn’t all that great.

Contrast this with D/D, which syngergises really well with an acrobatics spec, comes with three reliable cover conditions (poison, weakness, and cripple) without using any utility slots, does better white damage, can spike down low HP targets with hearseeker spam, and can hit multiple targets and you start to see why the set is a bit unpopular in PvP. It takes too long to kill people, and its sustain can’t be used to hold points.

It is, as other people have noted, probably the best platform for venomshare specs due to the venoms creating the cover conditions it lacks, and the group dynamic making it much easier to land CnDs in the middle of a more chaotic fight. If I were going to run venomshare, I’d totally go back to P/D for it.

Actually p/d thief can cover up bleeds pretty well now days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQIXC_VHghk

Also, once the lag strikes you won’t be able to hit anything with Cloak and Dagger and that means no Sneak Attack.

And P/D without Sneak Attack is probably the lowest DPS in the game.

Those players in that video are really … really bad … :/

Jesiah.2457:

Those players in that video are really … really bad … :/

Agreed though majority of wvwers are really bad at pvp and its like this on every server even more so since leagues began. My point was though if you spec and build right p/d can cover up bleeds quite nicely.

p/d is mainly for roaming, 1v1 and not designed for fast zerg fights.
if you wanna be good with this set you have to be patient and know how and when to cover your bleed stacks

here is build with lots of cover conditions but needs some training to do
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmKNHfS5E/JFB/Bn6p4rjV/wN7UwV5D-jECBoOCi0CQk0A00gZSFRjtuuIasKZER1qbYSBAzaA-w
for starter i will go with 0,0,30,20,20 for more health regen when stealth
for more power go full carrion and build with 20,0,30,20,0

i love the torment rune and to put 9 stacks with potential 18k dmg for 10 seconds so i just troll my enemy and make him use his conditions removal skills and burst him with it (sure against warrior which use -65-98% condition duration its bit hard but doable)

p/d set is fun to play but for wvw group fight i use d/d

It does no AOE damage so things like necros and engineers will always teamfight better. Also it only has 1 condition

First toon I ever lvled was a P/D thief. The main issues are that it is very easy for most targets to get away. Other condi specs will blow you out of the water. D/D D/P S/D just have an easier time doing targets. That being said. If you want to solo camps and towers in seconds (if you can get in) then yes P/D is the way to go. If a player chooses to stay they your attrition will beat most classes.

Last time I ran into a P/D thief solo in WvW on my DD thief I could barely touch him. He got me to like 20 percent life I created a gap and his DPS just stopped. It is the same story cross class the chase is so bad for WvW even with the new body shot.

@Demonts

Skill 1 bleeds,l 2 vulnerability and immobilize, 3 torment, 4 cripple, 5 vulnerability. If you use venom and runes you can apply many more conditions.

Because it’s slow, boring and easy to beat.

hircane.1982:

Is there something wrong with a p/d cond build? I never really see anyone use it. I love it personally, with a decent build I can roam or run with a zerg fairly effectively.

Im just curious, and I would like to keep the hate down to a minimum

Because its boring and kittened. And boring again.

P/D is great for roaming and while it may not be better than other specs it’s certainly viable.

And it has lots of cover conditions if specced right.

I personally have trouble landing backstabs so i eventually gave up and I am really effective with P/D and carrion armor/gear.

I use Koi Cake as well so even if they cleanse bleeds you can reapply them fast and if they waste their cleanses on Poison, Vuln, Cripple, or Torment they can be in a lot of trouble.

It has a lot of escapability as well so it is very good in a havoc/camp killer/yak killer role. I play Asia time so I get a larger number of small fights and you can fight outnumbered really well. You can kill guarded yaks very easily too. Pretty much nothing can stop you.

For Zerg a power/zerker build is much better (esp with shortbow).

The best P/D build I have found after much experimenting is 5/0/30/5/30 – this solves the C/D dodge issue as I get most of my C/Ds off steal and Hide in Shadows heal.

I almost never get burst down because with 20k HP and shadowstep you can usually get away.

I usually recommend P/D to new thieves and players since it’s very basic and easy to learn and allows them to practice basic things like hitting cloak and dagger, basic positioning and countering of other classes.

As a set, P/D is a bit weaker and less competive compared to the condition builds of other classes. It has no class-based access to burn, poor access to confusion, torment only if you choose between sustaining high bleed and torment (and ofc from venom), the rest of the conditions are mainly from utilities. And because of this, P/D deals best dps gearing for a portion of the damage to be direct damage (carrion, rabid, rampager), and choosing +cond+def+def is less viable than it is on other classes.

It used to be quite competive and strong while other condition builds hadn’t received major buffs and are as strong as they are now and everyone didn’t run around with good condition removals back then.

It’s however still viable for roaming, and keeping pressure on people in spvp though the 1 second extra on reveal made some impact on overall burst, it has survivability on troll levels since you spend most of your time outside of melee range.

And as I meantioned earlier, it’s easy to learn, but just as minionmancer you can be highly skilled with it too, but wont ofc be as strong as a skilled minionmancer, but will let you endure outnumbered fights better if you are good.

So since P/D is quite simple (boring), among the weaker of condition builds and our direct dmg sets are between medium and high in competiveness, and gives higher reward if skilled. It’s simply used less.

P/D is great for surviving, but it can’t really kill good players, the damage is too slow and cleansing removes it.

That’s why 90% of the P/D videos you see are fighting up-leveled, or really bad opponents, either that or the enemies are just ignoring the thief, as that is probably the best thing to do against p/d. Honestly the only good P/D videos are the ones that Wild Bill made specifically showcasing him fighting players with legendaries and none up-leveled enemies. But even then, P/D is so linear that is is hard to watch. Auto… auto.. cloak and dagger… stealth regen, sneak attack! … auto… dodgetrops, throw in utilities once in awhile. /yawn. At least with D/P or S/D the decisions you make can get you killed or counter your enemy, P/D is always the same.

P/D is very durable though, since you don’t need to always be in melee, and it has both high dodging and stealth regen. So it is basically a condition bunker, but the problem is that is has basically no AE like other condition bunkers, so it is pretty useless.

You can kill people with it obviously.. but it is much slower than power builds. When you get some bleeds stacked, at in poison from steal/spider, torment from shadow strike, and confusion from perplexity runes… P/D can take people down.

But the point is, normally it is way too slow to kill anyone, and good players often run lots of cleanses and know how to simply outlast it.

Oghier.7419:

Does P/D work as a power/ precision build? Sneak Attack (AA when stealthed) is a pretty beefy chunk of direct damage, as well as the bleeds.

Well I believe it’s fine. I play a spec like this for a while know and it’s very nice ,has a lot of fun and it can do everything .It has not the best damage as other builds, but I don’t like quick battles .It hit for about 2.5 – 4k crit damage, not bad.The condition are there just to scare people.Finaly i’am able to use all five skills because of the high inititive regen and if you make a mistake it’s forgivable.

Hitman

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYUQNAqYVlUmiOHfS5E+5EB3Dnm0m6pgsitTxVtKA-jQzA4fBR6PEFBjsASEAS+FRjt4WENWVdq1LYKXAtLkKGxdgJEgoxA-e

Try it you may like it.

P/D can kill yaks in WvW really well. One good Caltrops alone almost does the trick.

I like P/D now. I feel like it is developing an identity as our “anti-movement” set. If you use it to harass and keep your distance, it works really well. I think as an off-set in a team build, it can do quite well for focus fire as you can pin a target quite nicely.

I also find body-shot is more useful for setting up a CnD now.

P/D is a troll build. Pure and simple. It is super fun for 1v1 and for harassing small groups. It is also good for capturing camps.

As others have mentioned, it kills really slow though and someone with good condi cleanses will be trouble. It’s fairly easy to disengage from those fights though.

Keep in mind that any thief spec has a counter. Try D/P against a full regen warrior. You won’t have the dps to beat them. Of course they won’t have any damage to kill you either.

Demonts.4593:

It does no AOE damage so things like necros and engineers will always teamfight better. Also it only has 1 condition

You’re forgetting Poison and Torment.

While Necros get access to Burning, Poison, and Bleeding, we get Torment, which is usually worse than Dhuumfire, but with some tricks up your sleeve, can be stacked HIIIGH.

TheGuy.3568:

First toon I ever lvled was a P/D thief. The main issues are that it is very easy for most targets to get away. Other condi specs will blow you out of the water. D/D D/P S/D just have an easier time doing targets. That being said. If you want to solo camps and towers in seconds (if you can get in) then yes P/D is the way to go. If a player chooses to stay they your attrition will beat most classes.

Last time I ran into a P/D thief solo in WvW on my DD thief I could barely touch him. He got me to like 20 percent life I created a gap and his DPS just stopped. It is the same story cross class the chase is so bad for WvW even with the new body shot.

@Demonts

Skill 1 bleeds,l 2 vulnerability and immobilize, 3 torment, 4 cripple, 5 vulnerability. If you use venom and runes you can apply many more conditions.

yep, this guy knows what he is talking about. I play S/D focused ENTIRELY on being able to chase targets, which is especially important now due to how many warriors there are just roaming about happily.

This is why we call P/D a trolling build, because it can’t kill only troll.