Guild Wars 2

I’m hoping Mug is reverted back to what it was. I open most fights with Steal. Doing so makes health recovery on Steal 100% worthless to me. A hard hitting critical hit with Steal, on the other hand, was fantastic. Sooo….yeah, hoping for a reversion for Mug.

can you link where they talk about trait changes hadnt heard that

And this is why you aren’t a developer

Mug was an OP easy to get trait before they nerfed it. Opening up with (and very often too) a 4k-6k hit that is a shadow step and instant is ridiculous. It’s fine how it is now.

Melpomene.2367:

And this is why you aren’t a developer

Mug was an OP easy to get trait before they nerfed it. Opening up with (and very often too) a 4k-6k hit that is a shadow step and instant is ridiculous. It’s fine how it is now.

Not a thief…plus your argument is bad…please don`t litter our forum subsection with non-value non-info drivel. If they wanted to “balance” mug they would have simply reduce some of the damage. Or heck leave it non critable BUT turn it into a stun so our target waste a stun breaker and/or eat a backstab while stationary – making us keep basilisk for later. Another issue that irks me is larcenous strike: either make it steal up to 3 boons OR make it steal one but with zero cast time. NOTHING made to this profession post beta makes any sense. Hope mug gets reverted…but doubt it.

I have a level 80 thief, and I think my argument is pretty valid. Turn it into a stun? Lol now you’re just making me laugh. Thief is almost at a good spot right now, but needs more diverse builds. Not reverting traits that were changed for a reason

Mug was to powerful for where it was on the trait line. If they revert it, it should be moved to master or grand master.

Personally Mug should be changed to something else. Stardrift said stun? Might be OP but it sounds nice. Steal should do damage with out a trait, not a lot of damage, maybe 1500 or 2k.

animalmom.1062:

can you link where they talk about trait changes hadnt heard that

It was mentioned in a tourney stream, I believe – Jon said that there’s at least 1 change in every trait line for every class, meaning that all Thief lines will see something.

I expect Mug will be DA, or perhaps a change to Corrosive Traps, or perhaps Improvisation.

CS, I don’t know – Ankle Shots or Combo Critical Chance may be modified, or more likely, Critical Haste could see a duration increase.

SA, I also don’t know – number changes to XII, perhaps.

Acro, not a clue.

Trickery, also don’t know, perhaps a modification to how Bountiful Theft works (all stacks of Might, taking full durations of other boons etc.)?

I’d be mighty shocked if I saw changes that significant, though.

Zikory.6871:

Mug was to powerful for where it was on the trait line. If they revert it, it should be moved to master or grand master.

Personally Mug should be changed to something else. Stardrift said stun? Might be OP but it sounds nice. Steal should do damage with out a trait, not a lot of damage, maybe 1500 or 2k.

I have no problem moving it to Master or Grandmaster. I have no problem reducing the damage. I have no problem with any number of the other things they could have done to bring it in line if it was deemed too powerful.

What I do have a problem with, however, is changing is making it something it’s not supposed to be. What part of the word “mug” as it relates to “stealing” says “healing”? It was created to be make Steal inflict damage. And now it’s been twisted to make Steal into a heal as well? It makes no sense. And, as I said, it’s potential as an opener is greatly diminished; you either don’t open with Steal and save your heal or you open with Steal and waste your heal.

Whatever you (“you” being no one specific) think of your understanding of the trait, the class mechanic, or the game in general, I think you’re wrong to defend Mug as a heal.

Zikory.6871:

Mug was too powerful for where it was on the trait line. If they revert it, it should be moved to master or grand master.

This was the problem that mug had. For ten points a skill that had a lot of utility already was able to deal 4k damage. Mug is not an opener any more, it has been changed to a mid fight attack/ heal or a fight closer for when your enemy runs. If you don’t want the heal don’t take the trait.

Melpomene.2367:

I have a level 80 thief, and I think my argument is pretty valid. Turn it into a stun? Lol now you’re just making me laugh. Thief is almost at a good spot right now, but needs more diverse builds. Not reverting traits that were changed for a reason

Dude you`re funny. Tell you what, if the segment of a-net responsible for thief “balancing” would suddenly branch out into oh idk… medicine, if you went in with a simple case of scoliosis you`d walk out an invertebrate. Having a thief doesn`t make you an expert on the matter, it makes you a (insert better rated profession here) that needed an alt to learn it`s weaknesses (and they`re plenty). Non crit mug that leaches hp is laughable since few people would go more than 10 points in both DA and SA to make the healing worth while and assign JUST 10 points to get mug is even more silly. Look at my post – arguments from a real thief, now look at yours – obvious phony thief promoting nerfs.

darkace.8925:

Zikory.6871:

Mug was to powerful for where it was on the trait line. If they revert it, it should be moved to master or grand master.

Personally Mug should be changed to something else. Stardrift said stun? Might be OP but it sounds nice. Steal should do damage with out a trait, not a lot of damage, maybe 1500 or 2k.

I have no problem moving it to Master or Grandmaster. I have no problem reducing the damage. I have no problem with any number of the other things they could have done to bring it in line if it was deemed too powerful.

What I do have a problem with, however, is changing is making it something it’s not supposed to be. What part of the word “mug” as it relates to “stealing” says “healing”? It was created to be make Steal inflict damage. And now it’s been twisted to make Steal into a heal as well? It makes no sense. And, as I said, it’s potential as an opener is greatly diminished; you either don’t open with Steal and save your heal or you open with Steal and waste your heal.

Whatever you (“you” being no one specific) think of your understanding of the trait, the class mechanic, or the game in general, I think you’re wrong to defend Mug as a heal.

Lol if you think some traits are in the wrong trees or thief has horrible traits, I’ll direct you to necro, ranger, and elementalist.

Melpomene.2367:

darkace.8925:

Zikory.6871:

Mug was to powerful for where it was on the trait line. If they revert it, it should be moved to master or grand master.

Personally Mug should be changed to something else. Stardrift said stun? Might be OP but it sounds nice. Steal should do damage with out a trait, not a lot of damage, maybe 1500 or 2k.

I have no problem moving it to Master or Grandmaster. I have no problem reducing the damage. I have no problem with any number of the other things they could have done to bring it in line if it was deemed too powerful.

What I do have a problem with, however, is changing is making it something it’s not supposed to be. What part of the word “mug” as it relates to “stealing” says “healing”? It was created to be make Steal inflict damage. And now it’s been twisted to make Steal into a heal as well? It makes no sense. And, as I said, it’s potential as an opener is greatly diminished; you either don’t open with Steal and save your heal or you open with Steal and waste your heal.

Whatever you (“you” being no one specific) think of your understanding of the trait, the class mechanic, or the game in general, I think you’re wrong to defend Mug as a heal.

Lol if you think some traits are in the wrong trees or thief has horrible traits, I’ll direct you to necro, ranger, and elementalist.

Where did I say traits are in the wrong tree? Where did I say Thief has horrible traits? If you’re going to “lol” at someone, you’d do well to make sure you’ve actually read and comprehended what it is they’re saying.

Old mug < Static discharge

Just saying.

As for the thieves trait changes, i’m expecting some useless traits like 5% damage and 5% crit chance on dual skill to be merged (will still be useless though), and hopefully massive changes in deadly art so i’m not forced to pick improvisation (can be godly or terrible, rng at it’s finest), sundering crap or backfighter (50% damage in downed state) after mug.

Also yes, thieves traits are infact in majority terrible. When you always pick the same thing in each tree regardless of your build with one or two exception that kinda shows there’s a problem. Once again, after mug i have to choose between improvisation and backfighter.

That doesn’t mean ranger, necro or ele are in a better or worst state. I’m actually glad anet seems to realize trait diversity is terrible across the board more than anything.

darkace.8925:

Melpomene.2367:

darkace.8925:

Zikory.6871:

Mug was to powerful for where it was on the trait line. If they revert it, it should be moved to master or grand master.

Personally Mug should be changed to something else. Stardrift said stun? Might be OP but it sounds nice. Steal should do damage with out a trait, not a lot of damage, maybe 1500 or 2k.

I have no problem moving it to Master or Grandmaster. I have no problem reducing the damage. I have no problem with any number of the other things they could have done to bring it in line if it was deemed too powerful.

What I do have a problem with, however, is changing is making it something it’s not supposed to be. What part of the word “mug” as it relates to “stealing” says “healing”? It was created to be make Steal inflict damage. And now it’s been twisted to make Steal into a heal as well? It makes no sense. And, as I said, it’s potential as an opener is greatly diminished; you either don’t open with Steal and save your heal or you open with Steal and waste your heal.

Whatever you (“you” being no one specific) think of your understanding of the trait, the class mechanic, or the game in general, I think you’re wrong to defend Mug as a heal.

Lol if you think some traits are in the wrong trees or thief has horrible traits, I’ll direct you to necro, ranger, and elementalist.

Where did I say traits are in the wrong tree? Where did I say Thief has horrible traits? If you’re going to “lol” at someone, you’d do well to make sure you’ve actually read and comprehended what it is they’re saying.

And to make things even more funnier, played ONE day on a ranger. Results surpassed my expectations given i sPvp-ed after 20 mins of skimming through skills description. Ranger is pretty solid in terms trait lines – skill cohesion. Or maybe… it has really horrible trait lines but exceptional fundamentals. Which makes this profession even more OP since you can just pin the tail on the donkey in terms of picking traits and still be a more effective combatant than a thief.

old mug was ridiculous up to 7k damage+stun opener (if thief used poison) ensured the target was either 1 backstab away from death or 1 backstab+whatever skill away from death.

for the record Dodge roll>Static discharge whereas Mug= Instant+longer range
and you’d have to land 3 crits on all SD shots for them to crit higher than mug.

Melpomene.2367:

And this is why you aren’t a developer

Mug was an OP easy to get trait before they nerfed it. Opening up with (and very often too) a 4k-6k hit that is a shadow step and instant is ridiculous. It’s fine how it is now.

I second this although I did love mug where it was I do acknowledge how unfair it may have been. With basilisk venom there was no way to counter the stun and there for a free back stab with literally no effort. I do know you can still do this but without the crit the victim can at least react.

Well, i could also say dodge roll/blocks/invulnerabilities/etc > mug, and even more than static discharge since it would instantly negate 100% of the damage potential of the skill. I’ll give you the fact steal is not predictable (instant teleport) and you can actually see static discharge bolts.

Also if mug didn’t crit, you don’t have another go until 45 second, where static discharge being divided in 4 skills allow a crit failure to be less dramatic than a mug crit failure.
Static discharge also has aoe potential with bounces where mug is single target.
Static discharge doesn’t put you in melee range when using ranged weapon, where mug is potentially dangerous when using ranged weapons (especially p/p)
Static had far more damage potential than old mug but was more readable that’s for sure.
Both were10 point traits with a ridiculous damage potential, an argument often used against mug, with people saying none other trait had the same capacity, which was WRONG of course.

I’m not defending mug btw it was a deserved nerf, i just think static discharge deserve the same treatment or need to be moved higher in the tree.

Rezzet.3614:

old mug was ridiculous up to 7k damage+stun opener (if thief used poison) ensured the target was either 1 backstab away from death or 1 backstab+whatever skill away from death.

for the record Dodge roll>Static discharge whereas Mug= Instant+longer range
and you’d have to land 3 crits on all SD shots for them to crit higher than mug.

Don’t go exagerating numbers from WvW, mug did no where near that much damage.

Melpomene.2367:

I have a level 80 thief, and I think my argument is pretty valid. Turn it into a stun? Lol now you’re just making me laugh. Thief is almost at a good spot right now, but needs more diverse builds. Not reverting traits that were changed for a reason

I won’t say that the thief is almost in a good spot, but it does need more diverse builds.

And more mobility to make those diverse (and likely extremely squishy) builds playable.

And Pistol mainhand needs a massive utility buff.

Puru.4217:

Well, i could also say dodge roll/blocks/invulnerabilities/etc > mug, and even more than static discharge since it would instantly negate 100% of the damage potential of the skill.

Also if mug didn’t crit, you don’t have another go until 45 second, where static discharge being divided in 4 skills allow a crit failure to be less dramatic than a mug crit failure.
Static discharge also has aoe potential with bounces where mug is single target.
Static discharge doesn’t put you in melee range when using ranged weapon, where mug is potentially dangerous when using ranged weapons (especially p/p)

I’m not defending mug btw it was a deserved nerf, i just think static discharge deserve the same treatment.

you dont sacrifice utilities for mug tho if engi goes full SD he sacrifices his stun breakers blocks and whatnot

static discharge isnt instanteneous as mug wich is why Dodge/Blocking it would be out of sheer luck+ you cant see it coming from stealth

non suicidal Static discharge will have short CD usually rifle turret and a medium / long cd discharge plus another medium/long cd discharge wich most likely will be ground targetted .

so that leaves the cooldowns as follow:

7s

20-30s

25-40s

I wonder if Last Refuge will get changed? There’s been some serious complaint about it, after all. Its original design is pretty solid, but that originates from before revealed. Once revealed entered the game, the way the trait played changed pretty drastically and gave us the “Last Refuge keeps killing me” threads of today.

Other than that, Improvisation might be up for alteration. Like Auesis said, it’s RNG akittens finest. It can do nothing, or you could get to use an entire set of venoms again, including your elite.

Hopefully we’ll see Ricochet altered. I just can’t quite like it, personally.

Mug was an OP Trait, however now it is an underpowered one that deserves to be merged with other steal traits.

Mug + Stealth when you use steal should be the same trait.

Daecollo.9578:

Mug was an OP Trait, however now it is an underpowered one that deserves to be merged with other steal traits.

Mug + Stealth when you use steal should be the same trait.

nah would be too OP maybe Mug+Long Reach should be merged

Bountiful theft renamed to Mug.

Dead-eye – New power trait, dual skills not affected by reflection. aka unload :p or something.

I honestly think thieves will get a big fat nerf next patch.

I am very nervous they didn’t say anything about thieves on the sotg.

I don’t think thieves burst ever needed to be nerfed. Post mug nerf we are not the “burst” class anymore. Mesmers and warriors do it better than us now.

This is the exact opposite of what they said in the past SOTG’s. They said they wanted thief to be a strong burst class but that it was “too” bursty.

Now it’s not bursty enough. Why sacrifice staying power and survivability for a burst that will get stopped by anyone with a quick reaction.

When you play tPvP at the higher levels catching someone in a burst is very, very hard. The only way it’s going to happen is literally if their abilities are down and no other team mates are around to help.

At teh same time a noob would get destroyed mug and call it “OP” because they would die in second and what would “seem” like no time to react.

If you thought mug was overpowered, you are a noob that has never played against good players. It could have been toned down, but not this much. A heal on mug? That is totally counter intuitive for a burst build.

Mug is burst ability used at the very start of a fight with 100% hp. The heal on it is USELESS for bursting someone down. It would have been more useful if it caused blind, or weakness, or like 5 stacks of vulnerabilty, or something useful for killing the target quicker.

ANet failed on the mug nerf.

Noob on fellow thieves!

EDIT: Wanted to add about thief burst compared to others. Mesmer/Warrior/Engi/Ele are all AOE burst. Thief is single target. Which is why it should have never been nerfed the way it did imo.

Actually, every class is getting class improvements/trait merges.

Bear in mind Mug is in the Power trait line. Not the Toughness trait line. Not the Vitality trait line. Not the Healing trait line. The power trait line. Its original, sole purpose was to add damage to the Skill ability. So why is healing shoehorned in? What sense does Mug, an attack in the Power trait line, healing make?

It was also mention on that tournament that a lot of traits would be combining, not from the thief specifically, but kind of gives you an idea

Most thieves use Mug as an opener, so it really doesn’t make sense that it steals life. I would much rather have it apply more conditions other than the existing one.

swinsk.6410:

I am very nervous they didn’t say anything about thieves on the sotg.

To be fair, they didn’t mention anyone except Warrior and Necro.

Inc nerfs to SA line.

You heard it here 1st.

Jinks.2057:

Inc nerfs to SA line.

You heard it here 1st.

Doubtfull – thief is a good place right now , they could buff us pve wise though.