Guild Wars 2

As the title says, are there any good wvw thief builds that don’t rely on stealth (for survival)? Or is stealth fundamental in any thief build?

The thing is, the thief is very weak without stealth. You can never be as bunker as a d/d ele or guard or engi or ranger… You lack the protection and heals and buffs of those classes. You dont have good armor or health.

So to not rely on stealth, your only defense is constant dodge and evasion.
This can work well on 1v1s but it wont do much on fights where there are more ground-target aoes or opponents with good range.

I play this build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV6alYmKOHfS6E9JFy2jeqC5JuCOl/Byq/QUB-jkyAYMBZiCAhBiIAn/KiGblsIasaGMtpgs6Mp+jioVLDg5GA-w

The build could have overall better damage, by increasing power instead of critical chance, but I love the fact that I can get 100% critical chance with it. The general idea is to stack conditions (and critical hits) with Cluster Bomb and Choking Gas, then switch to pistol/pistol to apply pressure. I use pistol/pistol as more of a utility weapon set, in that I either burst down my opponent with Unload, interrupt a possible heal with Head Shot, or protect myself with Black Powder. Body Shot is great against high defense foes, if you have allies around you to apply damage.

Stealth is not needed as much, as most think, but without it, your damage output is noticeably lower. This is partly because the base damage of the Thief is a little too low. But the Thief can go into stealth in a lot of ways. For instance, in my build, I have four sources of stealth (Steal, Blinding Power, Descent of Shadows, and Last Refuge), which isn’t apparent at first glance.

lLobo.7960:

The thing is, the thief is very weak without stealth. You can never be as bunker as a d/d ele or guard or engi or ranger… You lack the protection and heals and buffs of those classes. You dont have good armor or health.

So to not rely on stealth, your only defense is constant dodge and evasion.
This can work well on 1v1s but it wont do much on fights where there are more ground-target aoes or opponents with good range.

Wouldn’t stealth be largely useless in team fights/zergs anyway since aoes are left and right?

penatbater.4710:

Wouldn’t stealth be largely useless in team fights/zergs anyway since aoes are left and right?

Not when you heal yourself and cure conditions while in stealth.
And stealthing you can deceive pursuers (that in a group fight will start focusing on the next target), while shadowstep will only make them turn around (no lost target) or need a bit more range…

there are a few s/d builds on here that use minimal or no stealth. it seems to work ok in roaming, but requires some skill. in bigger battles, some stealth is very useful, even when using the shortbow. the important thing about stealth in those situations is it makes the enemy lose target, which is crucial to surviving when spamming aoe damage at medium range. this makes blinding powder a very useful skill in most situations.
shadow refuge is also great for situations where you need to get out, or for resing a downed target, or finishing off a downed target.

you can do fine without them. in wvw you can be useful to your team just running supply using your superior mobility with the shortbow…still stealth really makes a difference in almost all builds.

I’ve tried non-stealth builds, and they are far more successful in sPvP than in WvW. In sPvP there is a definite reason to not stealth (capping and holding points), but in WvW you rarely risk losing something apart from the (rare) supply camp 1v1.

I didn’t make this build, but here is the link:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/page/1

There was one but it got completely destroyed today.

Yup, pretty much.

Well, S/P is the spec you’re talking about. It uses Shadow Return (which today now became one of the worst thought out changes in a game).

S/P does NOT rely on stealth, it relies on teleportation for survival and works very well – and it is very difficult to master it as second nature usage.

S/P, when Traited perfectly, dominates D/D & D/P thieves, Warriors and Guardians, Elementals, Necromancers, Rangers and Engineers. The problem is you will have a more difficlut time with Mesmers, but they can’t kill you either. Some Mesmer specs against it just makes them more difficult, but again they’re not able to kill you either.

If you don’t believe me, come to my server and I will gladly show you, and you’ll laugh at how incredible the setup is.

S/P – THE 1% SPEC! (cause every other thief in the game is too scared to try it)

Ahh thanks for the advice guys! When I get my thief to 80, I’ll probably still have a stealth skill or 2 to be used, but I just don’t like being too dependent on them, kinda cheesy imo. :p I will try out the s/p in pve while leveling to get the hang of things

penatbater.4710:

Ahh thanks for the advice guys! When I get my thief to 80, I’ll probably still have a stealth skill or 2 to be used, but I just don’t like being too dependent on them, kinda cheesy imo. :p I will try out the s/p in pve while leveling to get the hang of things

I’ll be honest: I don’t see the current D/D and D/P setup staying where it’s at. Sooner or later ArenaNet devs may hit those builds with some massive changes due to the mass damage + mass stealthing. It’s either one or the other sooner or later.

S/P has always been a great setup. Sure you look stupid spamming that stupid weapon, but it is, by all means, an actual challenging setup. If you can’t master the Shadow Returning, you’re not going to do well with the setup. It is difficult to learn but once you do, you’ll see exactly what I mean.

Also anyone that goes toe-to-toe with you, Black Powder will dominate that. I can stand in it while someone is pounding on me, cast my stealth, and run away.

and if you get stuck in a Guardian’s hammer skill that keeps you in their circle — Black Powder, shortbow and Shadow Return is your best friend. (I enjoy staying inside it and dropping Black Powder and /Laugh at the Guardian. Any Guardian that uses that on a Thief is just plain BAD at their class — it’s like going into a room and turning off the lights knowing there is a Thief in the room.)

I actually played this a few days ago: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYm6OHdy5E/5Ey2jKMn4J/DklODa6lA

Glassy but fun I love hit-n-run.

Arganthium.5638:

I actually played this a few days ago: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYm6OHdy5E/5Ey2jKMn4J/DklODa6lA

Glassy but fun I love hit-n-run.

That is the Glass Cannon build for for S/P, and I won’t run in WvW with that. It’s great for 1v1, but you won’t do well with multiple players. Trust me, there is a superior one out there.

Shh, we’re talking to much and the Devs are watching. I don’t want my setup getting nerfed any more! We’ll meet at the Starbucks in the Cone of Silence! — tip toes away from prying dev eyes

Crawford.4135:

Arganthium.5638:

I actually played this a few days ago: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYm6OHdy5E/5Ey2jKMn4J/DklODa6lA

Glassy but fun I love hit-n-run.

That is the Glass Cannon build for for S/P, and I won’t run in WvW with that. It’s great for 1v1, but you won’t do well with multiple players. Trust me, there is a superior one out there.

Shh, we’re talking to much and the Devs are watching. I don’t want my setup getting nerfed any more! We’ll meet at the Starbucks in the Cone of Silence! — tip toes away from prying dev eyes

Haha

YOU SAW NOTHING