yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

so we all know venoms pretty much suck. mostly bc of the cooldown and 1 or 2 bc of the way they are written. why? bc they make a skill set around a trait (venomous aura). the trait should go around the skills…. otherwise the skills are useless without the trait.

now the only 2 really good venom traits are venmous aura (share venoms to 5 allies) and residual venoms (+1 each strike).

both of these are cool but not so strong to be in GM line. any GM skill should be a build setting kind of trait. 20% dmg under 50% hp is a good one….healing while in stealth is a good one…..

if you want to give us a venom build can you atleast perhaps bring both down 1 tier?

there is no way to play venom builds without going 30 × 30 x x so you dont want us to be pidgeon holed but here we are.

thoughts?

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Hype.8032

Hype.8032

That’s reasonable. The more Anet tweaks venoms without actually fixing them the more the community will be PO’d with them. I really wish they’d revise them. Combine poison with torment and make that 1 venom.

Tualek & F I Monk / Thief —-- Tk E / Engineer
Highest Solo Queue Rank Achieved: 40
Highest solo-join Team Queue Rank Achieved: 198

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

Just separate Venoms and the effect generated by Venomous Aura.

Instead of having Venomous Aura duplicate “Devourer Venom” to everyone in range when you use devourer venom, have Venomous aura produce its own effect that it shares. This way venoms are no longer limited in design by the potential to be shared with up to 5 allies – you can design venoms with powerful effects that share lesser/tweaked copies to other players via venomous aura.

Residual venom’s is also garbage – 1 extra venom strike for 30 points in a tree? It’s also being strangled by Venomous Aura, as that is the only time RV is worth taking.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

exactly. they insist upon each other . always wanted to say that. i think the +1 should be a 20 point trait. and same with the venomous aura. or this is not variable to this build. its always always always 30 × 30 x x or its not worth taking. period.

theres really 2 options here.

1) Buff venoms so they are good by themselves.
2) Drop RV/VA down 1 tier so there is some available builds

most builds have traits so they complement the build. like a high crit builds needs to have initiative to use to gain stealth for defense or dodge etc. some builds need more stealth so they go SA traits picked. and im not talking about passives here. with a venom build theres no room for wiggle. its preset…tailor made by anet to be mediocre and boring.

the worst part about this is you pop venoms then sit and wait for 36-45 secs before you are usefull again. i mean what can you do? auto attack? ok not much dmg if u have a bow/pistol. can you use dagger attacks or sword attacks? NO! theres no defense from traits/utilities. theres nothing you can do with this build other than buff allies every 45 seconds then get back and hide so u can do it again. again its nice to share that new heal but its never gonna be a “take the thief for skelk venom share over a guardian plz” sort of thing. guardians with there staff skill alone will outheal skelk venom double or tripple or even more. so why take thief? its a joke.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: MyCondolences.8172

MyCondolences.8172

@Travlane, they would need to be brought down to tier 1 really. Bringing them down to t2 wouldnt change anything, you’d still have to go 30/0/30/0/0 in order to get quick venoms and leeching venoms.

Possible solutions:
1. remove devourer venom and swap it for a burning venom and over all increase the effectiveness of venoms. Might just be me but i think the power of devourer is what’s holding venoms back.
2. Give venoms an active and passive.
3. Remove venoms from utility slot and add them to fkeys.
4. Mess around with traits so you dont need to invest so many points to make them practical. Either by combing or lowing tiers.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

good point MYCONDOLENCES……

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

either way it needs a BIG change…..and its not undoable. i think the F2 F3 F4 are the best way to do it…that way you could replace the utilities and just leave the other traits alone

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: MyCondolences.8172

MyCondolences.8172

either way it needs a BIG change…..and its not undoable. i think the F2 F3 F4 are the best way to do it…that way you could replace the utilities and just leave the other traits alone

I was thinking the best way to do it would be adding an f2 and being able to set a venom.
I think they should function much in the same way as Guardians Virtue of Justice.
Was thinking you could have a choice between 4 venoms, burning, chill, poison, torment.
And i think the current venoms should be replaced with new venoms cept for devourer. Like add a stun, condition swapping, etc venom.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

if u compare steal….to all the F1 f2 f3 f4s of guardian etc….. WITHOUT either class traiting them better. STEAL isnt eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeven close to guardians F mechanics. not close to necros or anyones. seriously id trade steal for anything. i mean id miss the gap closer…..buuuuuuut the others mechanics have way more advantage overall and over time.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: MyCondolences.8172

MyCondolences.8172

actually that made me think, why is basilisk venom still an elite non that stun breakers work?

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

actually that made me think, why is basilisk venom still an elite non that stun breakers work?

with a 1 second cast time and a warning on the thief buff bar also….. mentioned this in a different thread but the 1 second cast time and cooldown made sense when thieves could push out higher DPS (via mug crit and different ranges/values for HS), but an obvious 1.5 second stun is hardly worth the elite slot.

Blank Players [BDL]-Anvil Rock
Maugen Rawr- Thief/Ele
Rebalance Ideas for Thief

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

yeah…. basilisk venom should be a regular venom now on the utility bar.

forit to be an “elite” skill they would have to :

1) make it an instant cast
&
2) take the warning off the buff bar
&
3) cause root in addition to stun for same amount of time

or do……….. just…

1) drop the CD to 30 seconds

somethingshoudl happen tho>

basilisk venom
pistol whip

some other skills too that should be rebuffed but the devs dont care. not even hard fixes…literally quick ones that could be hotpatched. yet this is why people are stopping to spend money bc it goes to…..who knows.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

Residual venom+venom share+leeching venom = healing bomb?
Idk about you but so far venom always looked like a thief healing/condition spec to me.
With that skelk venom it will just confirm it

People around here only think of venom as random effect to add to a critical damage bar for actual control purpose but venom actualy can do their own share of damage when geared toward condition damage. I do agree however we could trade one of them for a burning damage venom (apply poison 5 time on the target as a cooldown? thats cute but traited that way i apply poison everytime i steal anyway).

Basilisk venom shouldnt be a elite or should not be dispellable to begin with. If they realy wanna make it dispellable then maybe they should consider increasing the stun duration to punish foes who already wasted their stun breaker

Alternative to this could be to remake the trait that grants +33% poison duration (Utherly useless! who in their right mind would use this) into grant + 50% or 100% venom duration or so to speak. this would actualy make all venom potentially better.

Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
BM: I want to present you my lovely jingle bear mia
If pet had voices: Mommy, I did it! :3

(edited by kyubi.3620)

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

kyubi i run p/d usually in wvw ….. even if i run the cookie cutter ONLY build you can run “venom share” build….ur still stuck using auto attack. what else can u use. condi venom builds are p/d SB usually. maybe your best option is to spam Cluster bombs on bow? seriously. no matter how you look at it….. its a “pop venoms for group and run/hide/dont die til the 36-45 secs recharge is up” kind of build. thats lame.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: frans.8092

frans.8092

Maybe sharing should go, or be substantially toned down, because it’s the huge potential increase of their effectiveness under Venomous Aura that pushes the non-traited venoms into lameness.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

i was actualy talking about dual dagger death blossom here to stack 25 bleed.

Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
BM: I want to present you my lovely jingle bear mia
If pet had voices: Mommy, I did it! :3

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

Suggestions
1) Venom Aura should be our Elite Skill not our trait.

Whenever you inflict condition from a venom, upto 5 nearby allies inflicts the same condition on their next attack.

Duration: 30s

2) Venom skills should have passive and active effects. For example:

Spider Venom
Venom Passive: Your dual-wield attacks inflict poison for 6s (5s cool down).
Venom Active: You next 5 attacks inflict poison (30s cool down – lose passive on cool down).

3) Basilisk Venom should remain as Elite skill but will have the following functionality.

Basilisk Venom
Venom Passive: Your dual-wield attacks turns foes to stone for 1.5s (30s cool down).

Reasons
1) Placing the venom “inflict” effect dependent on dual-wield skill will give Thieves the ability to selectively apply the poison to be used tactically. And if the initiative level is low, the Thief can activate the poison (like squeezing the bottle for the last drop of poison) to give the Thief limited application to any attack, not just dual-wield, in exchange for a long cool down.

2) Venomous Aura as an Elite skill will remove the limitations on the venoms because this way it will share a slot with Basilisk Venom. V.Aura is the reason why we get crappy venoms and why Basilisk had been nerfed and cannot receive a buff. If the V.Aura is made to be an Elite skill, it will save us 30 points of traits and opens up a lot of way to improve our profession.

3) Basilisk Venom should have the same effect as it had before, but instead of being an activate ability, it should also triggers on dual-wield skill but a lot longer cool down. With V.Aura being an Elite skill, this venom will be exclusive to Thieves only.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Kaon.7192

Kaon.7192

Just separate Venoms and the effect generated by Venomous Aura.

Instead of having Venomous Aura duplicate “Devourer Venom” to everyone in range when you use devourer venom, have Venomous aura produce its own effect that it shares. This way venoms are no longer limited in design by the potential to be shared with up to 5 allies – you can design venoms with powerful effects that share lesser/tweaked copies to other players via venomous aura.

Residual venom’s is also garbage – 1 extra venom strike for 30 points in a tree? It’s also being strangled by Venomous Aura, as that is the only time RV is worth taking.

I think this is probably the right way to go.

Lowering trait tiers alone won’t solve the problem of Venoms’ effectiveness being held hostage to a single trait.

And yes Residual Venom needs something extra to be worthwhile as a 30pt trait, or be moved down to 10/20pt. IMO adding condi transfer would be consistent with the Deadly Arts theme and wouldn’t be unreasonable since venom builds are so utility strained that they probably won’t be able to take any condi removal utils.

Also, there needs to be a stun breaker Venom.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: SuinegTsol.1729

SuinegTsol.1729

maybe it would help when venoms get kind of mantra mechanics from mesmer like a bit larger preparation time but after that u can choose 3/4/5 times without cast time WHEN u want to use them.
this way at least the enemy cant remove your whole venom within one condition remove, or with the new heal u can heal when its usefull not once an hour…

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

Venom Aura really needs to go so that all venom can have their remake.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Rafahil.2857

Rafahil.2857

Even with all the changes you all suggest I still think it’s not enough. The problem with both venoms and traps is fundamental. In my opinion venoms should be applied on the thief and give an unique boon, but also a downside for the duration.

Something like for example a “Berserker” venom that temporarily makes all your attacks unblockable+gives you an extra 30% crit damage buff for the duration, however during this time you take constant damage.

as for traps, I’ve never seen anyone use them EVER. Ambush trap should just be a summon imo, shadow trap is not that bad, but the mechanic needs to change so it actually teleports you and the other traps are way too situational to the extent that they’re never worth it.

yes,...... venom thread. diff tho.

in Thief

Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

like

AMBUSH TRAP – Summon a thief ally to help when target ally strikes you from the side or behind. 20 sec uptime. 30 sec recharge.