Guild Wars 2

The weakness to healing signet has always been poison and high burst damage.

At the moment, with 30 pts in the defense line, The HPS of healing signet becomes equal to Healing Surge if your opponent can manage to keep poison on you ~50% of the time.

Assuming healing signet gets cut by 8% your opponent will need to keep poison on you only ~26% of the time enable to bring down healing signets effective HPS to the same level of Healing Surge (assuming you cleanse poison before using it at the third adrenaline level).

Given the current state of the condition meta-game and heavy amount of poison flying around from many sources, warriors are already actively working to keep poison off, and I worry that this change is going to simply make healing signet not worth it (unless the amount of poison in the game is significantly reduced).

I would rather see healing signet reworked than its effectiveness straight out reduced given that it actually makes warrior a viable attritionist/backpoint defender.

What do you guys think? Let’s keep the discussion below intelligent. I don’t want this to turn into an omg god mode warrior heal signet no button bind power wrecked 3 shot hammer combo thread like every other warrior balance discussion that has ever existed ever.

I’m not worried about it, they said that they are making the active worth using, I have not idea that can be done, the reason you get the signet is for the passive regen. You would need some incredibly OP active to make it worth activating it.

A lot of poison and burst are both taking a hit this patch as well. Also some of the other classes are going to have some sustain reduced as much or more than HS, so I wouldn’t worry too much about until we see what everything looks like.

Not one single decent pvper gives a kitten about healing sig even if it was nerfed by 50%.The main concern is they started touching our weapons and only in a plain nerf mode.No weapon rework,no unusable weapon skills and entire broken weapons fixed,no,just plain out nerf on the damage and speed every of our weapons that we have left.

Whatever we say, warrior haters keep asking nerf warrios no matter what.

wait what? I think I can hear that other professions are saying new HS is still OP

junho.7825:

Whatever we say, warrior haters keep asking nerf warrios no matter what.

wait what? I think I can hear that other professions are saying new HS is still OP

Yo bro, all the classes except ele have had a nerf or 2 announced already. Some of them much larger than 8% HS passive reduction (with a buff to active!). We don’t have all the proposed changes yet either. Some shaving all around is probably to be expected due to the upcoming sigil changes anyway. Lose the tunnel vision already.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Yo bro, all the classes except ele have had a nerf or 2 announced already. Some of them much larger than 8% HS passive reduction (with a buff to active!). We don’t have all the proposed changes yet either. Some shaving all around is probably to be expected due to the upcoming sigil changes anyway. Lose the tunnel vision already.

I doubt they will buff the active enough to force players to use it.

Just wait and see.

BTW, no offense, but this isn’t the right subforum for this topic.

Cygnus.6903:

Just wait and see.

BTW, no offense, but this isn’t the right subforum for this topic.

A topic talking about an 8% nerf to a Warrior healing skill in the Warrior subforum. IDK but it looks like it’s in the right place to me.

We will see when it goes live but I think it will still be very strong and the little kittenes will still be crying OP.

The problem isnt healing signets healing output. The problem is that you dont need to use the active. The only way to fix this is to make the active a crucial part of healing signets healing output.

I would do something like this:

Passive: 200 hps
Active + a bonus heal overtime that add up to 600 HPS within a 10 second timeframe.

Locuz.2651:

The problem isnt healing signets healing output. The problem is that you dont need to use the active. The only way to fix this is to make the active a crucial part of healing signets healing output.

I would do something like this:

Passive: 200 hps
Active + a bonus heal overtime that add up to 600 HPS within a 10 second timeframe.

This is not a problem, only because warrior doesn’t need to use his healing skill.

Warr swap weapons all the time. Our APM is higher than necro, guardian, thief and ranger. I won’t count mesmer because they may use their shatter skills often.

What about just swapping the active hps with the passive hps?

That is the most simple solution.

redslion.9675:

What about just swapping the active hps with the passive hps?

That is the most simple solution.

An 8k heal on a 20(16) second timer?

Mightymealworm.8409:

redslion.9675:

What about just swapping the active hps with the passive hps?

That is the most simple solution.

An 8k heal on a 20(16) second timer?

It would still be less of an offender.

Increase cast time if needed. And you can balance it around expecting the player to get VI Discipline.

redslion.9675:

What about just swapping the active hps with the passive hps?

That is the most simple solution.

The passive should have been +180 vitalty like the other signets passives and the active should have been a base heal + 15 to 20sec regen.

Id like something like rangers Troll Unguent. Something like a 200 passive heal, but then activate it for a 600-700 passive heal, with a decent modifier.

Julie Yann.5379:

redslion.9675:

What about just swapping the active hps with the passive hps?

That is the most simple solution.

The passive should have been +180 vitalty like the other signets passives and the active should have been a base heal + 15 to 20sec regen.

That would be horrible. Activate your signet and you’d lose hp due to losing the passive 180 vitality. If you had low hp you could actually kill yourself.

mini.6018:

Not one single decent pvper gives a kitten about healing sig even if it was nerfed by 50%.The main concern is they started touching our weapons and only in a plain nerf mode.No weapon rework,no unusable weapon skills and entire broken weapons fixed,no,just plain out nerf on the damage and speed every of our weapons that we have left.

Thats why you see healing signet run in 99% of WvW builds… Nerf healing sig passive heal to 50% and watch em drop like flies.

Pay attention, its that simple. Warrior have some of the lowest cast times for weapon skills, they are being raised to match others. Read first sentence again.

Dekk.3459:

mini.6018:

Not one single decent pvper gives a kitten about healing sig even if it was nerfed by 50%.The main concern is they started touching our weapons and only in a plain nerf mode.No weapon rework,no unusable weapon skills and entire broken weapons fixed,no,just plain out nerf on the damage and speed every of our weapons that we have left.

Thats why you see healing signet run in 99% of WvW builds… Nerf healing sig passive heal to 50% and watch em drop like flies.

Pay attention, its that simple. Warrior have some of the lowest cast times for weapon skills, they are being raised to match others. Read first sentence again.

Why are you not mentioning that they have the lowest weapon range and crappiest time on target than every other classes because of constant point blank melee requirement ?

Dekk.3459:

mini.6018:

Not one single decent pvper gives a kitten about healing sig even if it was nerfed by 50%.The main concern is they started touching our weapons and only in a plain nerf mode.No weapon rework,no unusable weapon skills and entire broken weapons fixed,no,just plain out nerf on the damage and speed every of our weapons that we have left.

Thats why you see healing signet run in 99% of WvW builds… Nerf healing sig passive heal to 50% and watch em drop like flies.

Pay attention, its that simple. Warrior have some of the lowest cast times for weapon skills, they are being raised to match others. Read first sentence again.

Only longbow, at best, has low cast time.

Reducing signet heal to 50% is stupid. Instead of having a strong noob skill, we have a weak noob skill. What about doing something DIFFERENT with it?

mini.6018:

Dekk.3459:

mini.6018:

Not one single decent pvper gives a kitten about healing sig even if it was nerfed by 50%.The main concern is they started touching our weapons and only in a plain nerf mode.No weapon rework,no unusable weapon skills and entire broken weapons fixed,no,just plain out nerf on the damage and speed every of our weapons that we have left.

Thats why you see healing signet run in 99% of WvW builds… Nerf healing sig passive heal to 50% and watch em drop like flies.

Pay attention, its that simple. Warrior have some of the lowest cast times for weapon skills, they are being raised to match others. Read first sentence again.

Why are you not mentioning that they have the lowest weapon range and crappiest time on target than every other classes because of constant point blank melee requirement ?

Pretty sure 99% is fairly accurate for healing signet being run in WvW builds… I mean the topic is about healing signet. That many running the same heal is by no means an accurate account of a skill being OP… note the sarcasm?

Dekk.3459:

mini.6018:

Dekk.3459:

mini.6018:

Not one single decent pvper gives a kitten about healing sig even if it was nerfed by 50%.The main concern is they started touching our weapons and only in a plain nerf mode.No weapon rework,no unusable weapon skills and entire broken weapons fixed,no,just plain out nerf on the damage and speed every of our weapons that we have left.

Thats why you see healing signet run in 99% of WvW builds… Nerf healing sig passive heal to 50% and watch em drop like flies.

Pay attention, its that simple. Warrior have some of the lowest cast times for weapon skills, they are being raised to match others. Read first sentence again.

Why are you not mentioning that they have the lowest weapon range and crappiest time on target than every other classes because of constant point blank melee requirement ?

Pretty sure 99% is fairly accurate for healing signet being run in WvW builds… I mean the topic is about healing signet. That many running the same heal is by no means an accurate account of a skill being OP… note the sarcasm?

All mesmers I met run Ether Feast. Yet it is not OP. One of the problems in GW2 is that one heal is CLEARLY better than the others, because HPS is THAT important in pvp.

Not arguing Healing Signet is wrong, just making a note.

I like the uniqueness of that skill and it fits perfectly to a warrior. You are having a strong passive and as a tradeoff less heal on the active. That’s just fine and again unique….

Simple.

Lowered poison duration from thief and engineer fields by 40%
Lowered burst by 10% (WvW)
Lowered Healing Signet by 8% and still getting the active buffed.

I don’t see where there is much to discuss here.

TheGuy.3568:

Lowered burst by 10% (WvW)

10% burst ONLY if the opponent was full zerker. I just need to point this out because I see it over and over and really most individuals will be probably in the 0% (full soldiers or close to full dire or BM ranger builds or full rabid) to 7% range (Mix defensive with offensive crit) on damage nerf.

Also, you need to add 5% back an incremental for Superior Sigil of Force (unless you do not already use Superior Sigil of Battle) for 2H. Even if you use one 2H, that is fairly significant DPS increase ~50% of the time (depends on playstyle).

However, since there is no empirical hard data on calculation of Ferocity stat, it is hard to say how much Warrior is net down all in but they will be slightly. And that makes sense because tweaking is better than hammering.

======

Now the Longbow nerf (3rd balance patch in a row for this weapon) is just a sign of ANet’s sign of ‘what should we do’ written all over it. Of course, it might be because Rifle is just so meh and having ranged combat option is basically a requirement in far too much of most GW2 game modes. But that is for another thread…

Seras.5702:

Julie Yann.5379:

redslion.9675:

What about just swapping the active hps with the passive hps?

That is the most simple solution.

The passive should have been +180 vitalty like the other signets passives and the active should have been a base heal + 15 to 20sec regen.

That would be horrible. Activate your signet and you’d lose hp due to losing the passive 180 vitality. If you had low hp you could actually kill yourself.

The bonus would have only affect the top end of your HP bar like having your normal HP which would not be affected by the signet then adding the equivalent of 180 vitality to it.

Dekk.3459:

Pretty sure 99% is fairly accurate for healing signet being run in WvW builds… I mean the topic is about healing signet. That many running the same heal is by no means an accurate account of a skill being OP… note the sarcasm?

Before the healing signet was buffed 99% of the warrior were using Healing Surge. Did that make it OP? No It was just the best available option. I’m pretty sure many running it guild groups 15+ and fighting in big fights are probably using Defiant Stance which is way better than the Healing Signet in those situations. Some roaming builds actually still use healing surge get a good burst early in the fight. The healing from the signet is not OP, it’s just too easy to use. Add to that the fact that there are a lot of FOTM warriors out there that don’t really know how to really play the class just using the signet cause it is easy and there are a lot of players refusing to adapt their builds to counter these FOTM warriors and dying.

Mightymealworm.8409:

junho.7825:

Whatever we say, warrior haters keep asking nerf warrios no matter what.

wait what? I think I can hear that other professions are saying new HS is still OP

Yo bro, all the classes except ele have had a nerf or 2 announced already. Some of them much larger than 8% HS passive reduction (with a buff to active!). We don’t have all the proposed changes yet either. Some shaving all around is probably to be expected due to the upcoming sigil changes anyway. Lose the tunnel vision already.

if u want to take it that way..

name a single class which got nerf’d as hard as eviscorate did right after beta…
You cant… cuz no skill got a very large dmg reduction as well as a leap reduction that eviscorate did making it almost usless to what it was during beta. :P

however i agree with the eviscorate nerf when it came… who enjoyed getting 1 shotted?

Carpboy.7145:

Id like something like rangers Troll Unguent. Something like a 200 passive heal, but then activate it for a 600-700 passive heal, with a decent modifier.

I like the idea, when i played bunker ranger (which despite everything, it was fun) i used troll unguent and it was quite a good heal.
Problem is signets have a passive and an active effect, HS should have some kind of passive on top of the active heal.

A nerf of roughly 10% seems just right. An uninterruptable passive heal should not give more hps than our strongest active heal. There is really not much to debate about this.

Buffing the active is a good decision aswell. I hardly ever encountered a situation where the pitiful amount of heal was worth the sacrifice of the passsive regeneration. If that changes its clearly for the better.

Padrion.7382:

A nerf of roughly 10% seems just right. An uninterruptable passive heal should not give more hps than our strongest active heal. There is really not much to debate about this.

Buffing the active is a good decision aswell. I hardly ever encountered a situation where the pitiful amount of heal was worth the sacrifice of the passsive regeneration. If that changes its clearly for the better.

Just pointing out that the counter to it is poison. You say that it’s uninterruptable, which is true, but in a condition heavy WvW and PvP setting, the chances of getting poisoned is high, reducing your heal over time greatly without cleansing it constantly. Conversely, an active heal can have poison pre-cleansed and then cast for the full heal. And with most warrior builds bringing stability, the chances of it being interrupted are low.

The proposed change to Heal Sig will actually further reduce the heal over time on poisoned warriors, however, will make a pre-cleanse active casting heal more viable. I actually see this as a benefit to warriors in a condition heavy environment. Rather than having to constantly keep poison off, you have the option to cleanse & heal actively if it gets hairy.

When was the last time any of you have seen a competitive warrior using any heal other than Healing Signet?
Yet Surge and Mending are amazing healing skills.

I want people to think about it before saying that Healing Signet is not OP.

TheGuy.3568:

Simple.

Lowered poison duration from thief and engineer fields by 40%
Lowered burst by 10% (WvW)
Lowered Healing Signet by 8% and still getting the active buffed.

I don’t see where there is much to discuss here.

This ^^

I think think the idea of reducing burst by 10% for WvWvW is a good idea. I would go for even higher nerf, around 20%, but that is just me. But I would also want to nerf the condition burst.

Also the duration nerfs to poison are somewhat justified. Poison grenade has 25 s cooldown so it cannot be reapplied immediately and to combo blast the poison field you need to be in very close range, but choking gas has no cooldown and mere 4 initiative cost. Meaning with the right build one could easily keep stack of both poison, weakeness and lots of bleed, by alternating shortbow #3 and shortbow #2 (clusterbomb triggers poison combo field).

Healing signet’s and adrenal health’s passive heal together is way too high. With added investment in healing power my warrior has been able to literally stand in burning and the passive heal outheals the burning damage.

Two sources of passive heals which 99% of warriors are using and cannot interrupted. Their counter is massive burst damage or poison (which is getting nerfed).

I think the total amount of passive heal (from adrenal health and HS) need to come down at least 30%. Maybe make them scale a bit better with healing power attribute. At the same healing signet’s active needs buffing. Maybe the active should heal around 30% more and remove one condition. That is just an idea, but that would make HS activating useful (considering the passive would be 30% weaker than now).

sorrow.2364:

When was the last time any of you have seen a competitive warrior using any heal other than Healing Signet?
Yet Surge and Mending are amazing healing skills.

I want people to think about it before saying that Healing Signet is not OP.

Seriously this. It’s like even the most basic forms of critical thinking escape these people, player AND developer.

sorrow.2364:

When was the last time any of you have seen a competitive warrior using any heal other than Healing Signet?
Yet Surge and Mending are amazing healing skills.

I want people to think about it before saying that Healing Signet is not OP.

Or maybe the other heals are just crap ?Did that ever occoured to you ?How come Warriors were asking for some decent heals for the last 15 months before the HS got buffed?

Sweetbread.2679:

sorrow.2364:

When was the last time any of you have seen a competitive warrior using any heal other than Healing Signet?
Yet Surge and Mending are amazing healing skills.

I want people to think about it before saying that Healing Signet is not OP.

Seriously this. It’s like even the most basic forms of critical thinking escape these people, player AND developer.

Well, I don’t know if those are that amazing. They haven’t changed much from the time warriors were laughable:

Healing Surge is extremely vulnerable to poison. Why? Because if you remove it with cleansing ire, you’ll already be using a kitten heal.
Sure, builds with good burst management (who slot in Burst Mastery), or that try to gain as much as they can from Berserker’s Power can take full use from this. In other builds, Healing Surge is disrupted by its own mechanics, inflicting on you the risk of getting lower hps (inferior to Ether Feast, for example, which I don’t actually mind). I think it’s at most decent, not amazing.

And usually most build take care of condition in other ways, so Mending is barely needed.

Julie Yann.5379:

Dekk.3459:

Pretty sure 99% is fairly accurate for healing signet being run in WvW builds… I mean the topic is about healing signet. That many running the same heal is by no means an accurate account of a skill being OP… note the sarcasm?

Before the healing signet was buffed 99% of the warrior were using Healing Surge. Did that make it OP? No It was just the best available option. I’m pretty sure many running it guild groups 15+ and fighting in big fights are probably using Defiant Stance which is way better than the Healing Signet in those situations. Some roaming builds actually still use healing surge get a good burst early in the fight. The healing from the signet is not OP, it’s just too easy to use. Add to that the fact that there are a lot of FOTM warriors out there that don’t really know how to really play the class just using the signet cause it is easy and there are a lot of players rufusing to adapt their builds to counter to counter these FOTM warriors and dying.

The thing is when stacking regen a warrior with 24k hp you see his health JUMPING up, similar to the same rate as being OOC but 1k at a time. So if you dont have access to poison or playing a GC build the warrior is barely dented. That is w/o any protection… so yes IMO that signet is OP. It should be reduced to 8% and every 3s, whatever the total, because currently it can be silly.

@Redslion
I highly doubt 99% of mesmers run Ether Feast in WvW since Dec 10th. I know I don’t.

Dekk.3459:

@Redslion
I highly doubt 99% of mesmers run Ether Feast in WvW since Dec 10th. I know I don’t.

I made that abstract example about the fact that I disagree with you about WHY warrior’s signet is OP. Not that I disagree with you about the fact it’s actually OP. I feel almost fine about using it because I know I’ll face warriors most of the time, and have to outplay them. But nevertheless I try not to make too much use of it.

mini.6018:

Or maybe the other heals are just crap ?Did that ever occoured to you ?How come Warriors were asking for some decent heals for the last 15 months before the HS got buffed?

Of course they are crap… In comparison to Healing Signet.
Mending is extremely good. It has insanely low recharge and good condition removal, while healing for quite a lot.
Surge is one of the best healing skill in the game based on sheer amount of health given.

But yeah, healing signet is still better in any situation, so…

sorrow.2364:

mini.6018:

Or maybe the other heals are just crap ?Did that ever occoured to you ?How come Warriors were asking for some decent heals for the last 15 months before the HS got buffed?

Of course they are crap… In comparison to Healing Signet.
Mending is extremely good. It has insanely low recharge and good condition removal, while healing for quite a lot.
Surge is one of the best healing skill in the game based on sheer amount of health given.

But yeah, healing signet is still better in any situation, so…

Lol Mending. Mending is a crap healing skill even before when the healing signet reign began. It was only the best of the three crappy healing skill. Mending barely healed enough to be sustainable and it was one of the few condi removals before cleansing Ire and dogged march. That is why you think mending was any good.

If mending was any good, then it would’ve created a warrior meta before healing signet existed and people would bring warriors to tournaments.

sorrow.2364:

mini.6018:

Or maybe the other heals are just crap ?Did that ever occoured to you ?How come Warriors were asking for some decent heals for the last 15 months before the HS got buffed?

Of course they are crap… In comparison to Healing Signet.
Mending is extremely good. It has insanely low recharge and good condition removal, while healing for quite a lot.
Surge is one of the best healing skill in the game based on sheer amount of health given.

But yeah, healing signet is still better in any situation, so…

Mending has 250 hps, which is pretty low. And you rarely need healing and condi cleanse at the same time, without counting the fact that I’m not sure poison is cleansed before healing is applied. Thief’s withdrawal cures conditions, is instant AND has better healing.

Healing Surge has 316 hps, with the added problem you need to be at 100% adrenaline to use it and you CAN’T use Cleansing Ire to remove poison. This because if you use a burst, you’ll lose healing. If you wait to recover adrenaline, you might get poisoned again.

Mending is good.
Withdraw heals for less compared to Mending and does not cleanse any damaging condition, while mending does.

Since damaging conditions are usually the ones more frequently applied, it is most likely that mending cleanse one of those. If you couple it with Restorative Strength, Mending is pretty much the equivalent of a full condition cleanse plus healing on 20s cooldown.

250 hps is not low.
http://i.imgur.com/hFxaCeB.jpg

As you can see in this spreadsheet, 250 HP/s, even without considering the condition removal, is way above average.

sorrow.2364:

Mending is good.
Withdraw heals for less compared to Mending and does not cleanse any damaging condition, while mending does.

Since damaging conditions are usually the ones more frequently applied, it is most likely that mending cleanse one of those. If you couple it with Restorative Strength, Mending is pretty much the equivalent of a full condition cleanse plus healing on 20s cooldown.

250 hps is not low.
http://i.imgur.com/hFxaCeB.jpg

As you can see in this spreadsheet, 250 HP/s, even without considering the condition removal, is way above average.

That’s why warriors were so good before buffs, right?

The above average argument doesn’t work well: most used healing skills are ALL above average (mostly with their added benefits).

Withdrawal has a lower cooldown. And considering the obscene condi meta that stands now, 3 conditions cleansed is not enough. Traiting Mending sure removes a lot of conditions, too bad that most of the time you’ll have to cleanse movement imparing effect before you need to heal, not after. If a necro forces you into healing before you can get to him, you have already lost, unless you are cc heavy. This means you’ll need other ways to get rid of conditions. And even then, we all saw how costant streams of condition removals are better than once in a while heavy cleanses. Most conditions are reapplied really fast, and some of them can completely shut you down (cripple, chill). So you need to take Cleansing Ire. Making Mending redundant.

Mending and surge can be useful if you can down someone with warrior in seconds, which is achievable is the enemy is less than rank 10. Maybe.

redslion.9675:

That’s why warriors were so good before buffs, right?

The above average argument doesn’t work well: most used healing skills are ALL above average (mostly with their added benefits).

Withdrawal has a lower cooldown. And considering the obscene condi meta that stands now, 3 conditions cleansed is not enough. Traiting Mending sure removes a lot of conditions, too bad that most of the time you’ll have to cleanse movement imparing effect before you need to heal, not after. If a necro forces you into healing before you can get to him, you have already lost, unless you are cc heavy. This means you’ll need other ways to get rid of conditions. And even then, we all saw how costant streams of condition removals are better than once in a while heavy cleanses. Most conditions are reapplied really fast, and some of them can completely shut you down (cripple, chill). So you need to take Cleansing Ire. Making Mending redundant.

Mending and surge can be useful if you can down someone with warrior in seconds, which is achievable is the enemy is less than rank 10. Maybe.

Mending and Surge were buffed in the same patch of Healing Signet, if I’m not wrong, along with Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire, Dogged March and all the kittens warrior got.
Warrior were not bad because of the heals, warrior were bad because they had no condition removal whatsoever in a condition heavy meta.

Mending was a mediocre heal when it removed only 2 conditions on a 25s cooldown and with lower health, while Surge was still an extremely good heal even before they buffed it further.

What the developers did, instead of just fixing the condition removal issue and making Healing Signet somehow viable instead of crazy OP, is throwing every buff they can at warrior. They made them literally immune to conditions, buffed their control potential, buffed their burst skills, buffed their adrenaline regen, buffed their damage and buffed their sustain.

All your theorycrafting is based on the assumption that you can’t take both Mending and Cleansing Ire because it is reduntant. True, you need to take also cleansing ire other than mending because how good that trait is, but the true problem is that you don’t need further condition removal because of Berserker Stance.
With that skill, all you have to do is press it, cleanse the conditions with cleansing ire and, thanks to healing signet, you have a cheaper, uncounterable, completely automated and better version of Mending.
Cleansing Ire alone will never make you survive to condition bursts, especially on a profession which is designed to just facetank hits.

The issue is the synergy of Healing Signet with complete immunities, not that Mending or Surge are bad healing skills. All the buffs to warriors were cheap solutions to a tough issue, placing it on the completely opposite side of the spectrum.

My theorycrafting is based on the assumption that if you take cleansing Ire you don’t need mending anymore.

Even Mending and Berserker Stance alone don’t work THAT well together… they are sort of a one trick pony.

Surge is not a good heal unless you use it with burst mastery, and is the only healing skill that doesn’t work with cleansing ire: you can’t just cleanse the poison and then heal right after.

This doesn’t mean they suck, but with all the crazyness going around with other builds they won’t bring you much further, unless you just slap that heal on a cheesy build.

Naekuh.7925:

Mightymealworm.8409:

junho.7825:

Whatever we say, warrior haters keep asking nerf warrios no matter what.

wait what? I think I can hear that other professions are saying new HS is still OP

Yo bro, all the classes except ele have had a nerf or 2 announced already. Some of them much larger than 8% HS passive reduction (with a buff to active!). We don’t have all the proposed changes yet either. Some shaving all around is probably to be expected due to the upcoming sigil changes anyway. Lose the tunnel vision already.

if u want to take it that way..

name a single class which got nerf’d as hard as eviscorate did right after beta…

Elementalist after the first beta got nerfed to the ground

Mesmer clones after the first beta got nerfed to the ninth layer of hell

sorrow.2364:

redslion.9675:

That’s why warriors were so good before buffs, right?

The above average argument doesn’t work well: most used healing skills are ALL above average (mostly with their added benefits).

Withdrawal has a lower cooldown. And considering the obscene condi meta that stands now, 3 conditions cleansed is not enough. Traiting Mending sure removes a lot of conditions, too bad that most of the time you’ll have to cleanse movement imparing effect before you need to heal, not after. If a necro forces you into healing before you can get to him, you have already lost, unless you are cc heavy. This means you’ll need other ways to get rid of conditions. And even then, we all saw how costant streams of condition removals are better than once in a while heavy cleanses. Most conditions are reapplied really fast, and some of them can completely shut you down (cripple, chill). So you need to take Cleansing Ire. Making Mending redundant.

Mending and surge can be useful if you can down someone with warrior in seconds, which is achievable is the enemy is less than rank 10. Maybe.

Mending and Surge were buffed in the same patch of Healing Signet, if I’m not wrong, along with Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire, Dogged March and all the kittens warrior got.
Warrior were not bad because of the heals, warrior were bad because they had no condition removal whatsoever in a condition heavy meta.

Mending was a mediocre heal when it removed only 2 conditions on a 25s cooldown and with lower health, while Surge was still an extremely good heal even before they buffed it further.

What the developers did, instead of just fixing the condition removal issue and making Healing Signet somehow viable instead of crazy OP, is throwing every buff they can at warrior. They made them literally immune to conditions, buffed their control potential, buffed their burst skills, buffed their adrenaline regen, buffed their damage and buffed their sustain.

All your theorycrafting is based on the assumption that you can’t take both Mending and Cleansing Ire because it is reduntant. True, you need to take also cleansing ire other than mending because how good that trait is, but the true problem is that you don’t need further condition removal because of Berserker Stance.
With that skill, all you have to do is press it, cleanse the conditions with cleansing ire and, thanks to healing signet, you have a cheaper, uncounterable, completely automated and better version of Mending.
Cleansing Ire alone will never make you survive to condition bursts, especially on a profession which is designed to just facetank hits.

The issue is the synergy of Healing Signet with complete immunities, not that Mending or Surge are bad healing skills. All the buffs to warriors were cheap solutions to a tough issue, placing it on the completely opposite side of the spectrum.

You’re incorrect about the order that Warriors received buffs. This is important because the received the trait changes and Zerker Stance buff BEFORE the healing changes(June 2013). Before the healing buffs Warriors were still not considered viable. It was only the healing buffs that made them viable and it was almost a month before any builds surfaced. So yes, nerfing healing may significantly impact Warrior’s viability. Now 8% may not be that bad but we can’t know until we play.

BurrTheKing.8571:

You’re incorrect about the order that Warriors received buffs. This is important because the received the trait changes and Zerker Stance buff BEFORE the healing changes(June 2013). Before the healing buffs Warriors were still not considered viable. It was only the healing buffs that made them viable and it was almost a month before any builds surfaced. So yes, nerfing healing may significantly impact Warrior’s viability. Now 8% may not be that bad but we can’t know until we play.

As I said, the problem is the synergy between HS and invulnerabilities, not to say that warriors were considered still bad even after the HS buff for a whole month. Then people have discovered a build that was crazy OP using the buffs they received (hambow with unsuspecting foe) and they become popular all of a sudden.

Nerf HS harder… no joke

TheGuy.3568:

Simple.

Lowered poison duration from thief and engineer fields by 40%
Lowered burst by 10% (WvW)
Lowered Healing Signet by 8% and still getting the active buffed.

I don’t see where there is much to discuss here.

Makes a lot of sense. It sounds like they want to tackle the condition meta, but they don’t want to make condition damage useless either so they are toning down one of the more… debated methods of “dealing” with it.

Maybe the nerf to Healing Signet will mean I don’t have to hear about it every other warrior topic because people have decided to abandon it.

Honestly nerf healing signet into the ground if you have to. Id like a still decent passive with an active worth using, but if completely destroying it is what it takes to shut up all the whiners then be my guest. Then every warrior would just use Surge instead.