Guild Wars 2

I only came here to shut down the idiocy behind the active vs passive argument, but I figure while I’m here I should at least address the original thought behind this thread…

I think the change to Adrenal Health is both terrible and fantastic…

It’s terrible b/c now we are forced into 2 lines for minor traits (AH and FH), and it doesn’t give us anything new to work with as far as build variety goes.

It’s fantastic b/c it works! It gives us some serious staying power in fights, and doesn’t negatively impact the builds we were already forced into using.

Furajir.3815:

dominik.9721:

No it is not wrong, it is my decision to consider sth. passive. And a trait that provides passive 7,5k heal over 15 seconds for a minimal action is in my eyes passive not active.
This isn’t science where I say 1+1 is not 2.

I think we are all aware even basic math eludes you. You can argue the differences between the two until you’re blue in the face.

For example, if I actively punch you in the face, and knock your teeth out, the active action is me punching you, the result is you missing teeth and drinking through a straw. There is always an effect resulting from an action.

I’m glad we can finally conclude this.

Ye and if you push the button for autopilot in your car you also actively drive simpley because you actively pushed the button for autopilot.
It just seems too hard for you to understand simple relations and context and you are unable to hold an easy discussion. But according to your previous forum posts I’m not even wondering about non sense posts like this.

You still didn’t reply anything to the fact that people on the one hand say that the necro and scrapper trait is passive 100% but on the other hand you say the warrior trait would be active – allthough it is the same design. The scrapper trait even got nerfed because so many people complained about this trait being too strong for a passive trait. So all people and anet are stupid for considering traits like that passive?
You just insist it would be active gameplay and everyone who thinks otherwise is dumb of course.

Juba.8406:

Julius Seizure.4985:

This is way too much sustain crammed into one godly and now mandatory MINOR trait
a trait this good should happen at the Major tier

OK

Look at chronomancer’s “Time Marches On” its basically 2 Major warrior traits combined into to a MINOR godly trait.

Warriors’s Sprint has 2 attributes (25% run speed and Immobilise removal).

Time Marches On has 2 attributes (25% run speed and -duration on impairing conditions).

I fail to see how that skills is as good as 500 HP/s heal that is attached to what you would be doing anyway— using burst skills. I also fail to see how it is better than Warrior’s Sprint, which negates one of the most powerful CCs in the game. Regardless, pointing out that another class has an unbalanced trait and using it as justification for this unbalanced trait is not the strongest argument to begin with.

Touching on the active vs. passive debate. Looking at the “dictionary” definition of passive traits in MMOs would clearly not fit with what Adrenal Health is.

However, it is not changing your game play. You are not activating your Adrenaline/Berserker skills specifically for this trait, you are activating them just as you would have before—to damage and kill your foe. In that sense it is a passive buff, because the effect is triggering passively when another active skill is used. Btw, that active skill is used just the same as it always was— F1 for damage. Now it is also F1 for damage and a passive heal triggering in the background.

If Adrenal Health became F3, and would consume Adrenaline to heal yourself over time then yes, it would be an active skill.

I would have preferred condis to boons on F1 use.

Furajir.3815:

I would have preferred condis to boons on F1 use.

I love my boons. <3

Julius Seizure.4985:

Juba.8406:

Julius Seizure.4985:

This is way too much sustain crammed into one godly and now mandatory MINOR trait
a trait this good should happen at the Major tier

OK

Look at chronomancer’s “Time Marches On” its basically 2 Major warrior traits combined into to a MINOR godly trait.

Warriors’s Sprint has 2 attributes (25% run speed and Immobilise removal).

Time Marches On has 2 attributes (25% run speed and -duration on impairing conditions).

I fail to see how that skills is as good as 500 HP/s heal that is attached to what you would be doing anyway— using burst skills. I also fail to see how it is better than Warrior’s Sprint, which negates one of the most powerful CCs in the game. Regardless, pointing out that another class has an unbalanced trait and using it as justification for this unbalanced trait is not the strongest argument to begin with.

Did you forget about Dogged March ?

here ill explain

Time Marches On =

• a better version of Warrior Sprint (since warrior 25% speed only works on melee weapons, cure immb on movment skills is useless for mesmer cos he got far better things …teleports which works even when immb)
• a bit weaker version of Dogged March

The fact remains, in order for warrior to get effects like what the “Minor” Time Marches On gives then he must equip TWO major traits Warrior Sprint and Dogged March

What im trying to say is there are several examples of minors being better than even a major grandmaster, so switching traits because its super useful is not a valid reason.

It’s active, you don’t start with it, you can whiff it, you need to build up for it, etc. It’s an active maintenance buff to be exact.

That said, I feel the number is a little high, the pay off is certainly exceeding the risk involved by quite a bit. Seeing as how the healing is the same (correct me if I’m wrong?) as before but the ticks are per second, something tells me they didn’t think out the full change when they recoded it. Seems like a mistake of changing one part and not the other, but we’ll see.

Though, I don’t think it needs to be brough down to 1/3 as an oversight fix would indicate, I don’t think it’s that far overtuned. So hopefully we see some sort of reply before it’s changed.

Juba.8406:

Julius Seizure.4985:

Juba.8406:

Julius Seizure.4985:

This is way too much sustain crammed into one godly and now mandatory MINOR trait
a trait this good should happen at the Major tier

OK

Look at chronomancer’s “Time Marches On” its basically 2 Major warrior traits combined into to a MINOR godly trait.

Warriors’s Sprint has 2 attributes (25% run speed and Immobilise removal).

Time Marches On has 2 attributes (25% run speed and -duration on impairing conditions).

I fail to see how that skills is as good as 500 HP/s heal that is attached to what you would be doing anyway— using burst skills. I also fail to see how it is better than Warrior’s Sprint, which negates one of the most powerful CCs in the game. Regardless, pointing out that another class has an unbalanced trait and using it as justification for this unbalanced trait is not the strongest argument to begin with.

Did you forget about Dogged March ?

here ill explain

Time Marches On =

• a better version of Warrior Sprint (since warrior 25% speed only works on melee weapons, cure immb on movment skills is useless for mesmer cos he got far better things …teleports which works even when immb)
• a bit weaker version of Dogged March

The fact remains, in order for warrior to get effects like what the “Minor” Time Marches On gives then he must equip TWO major traits Warrior Sprint and Dogged March

What im trying to say is there are several examples of minors being better than even a major grandmaster, so switching traits because its super useful is not a valid reason.

Time Marches on has parts of 2 separate traits the warrior has: Dogged March (- duration) and Warrior’s Sprint (passive run speed). Each of these have a unique second attribute that is also very powerful.

Regarding Warrior’s Sprint, did you forget about being able to remove imobilize on any movement skill? This is perhaps the best addition to any passive movement speed trait in the game. Maybe you just PvE. I don’t know, And yes, I am looking at Dogged March. Are you?

Dogged March as 2 attributes (Regeneration granted, and -duration on movement impairing conditions).

By the way, Dogged March is -33% and Time Marches On is -25% FYI.

You are comparing apples to oranges and then saying that bananas should be just as round as an orange based on your conclusion.

On top of this, Adrenal Health is not just better than any major in the game, it is also better than most #6 skills in the game— including Healing Signet— with regards to HP/s. When a minor trait can be compared favorably to all #6 healing skills something is not right.

ronpierce.2760:

It’s active, you don’t start with it, you can whiff it, you need to build up for it, etc. It’s an active maintenance buff to be exact.

Still the same as rapid regenaration of scrapper where everyone complained about it because it would be passive

ronpierce.2760:

That said, I feel the number is a little high, the pay off is certainly exceeding the risk involved by quite a bit. Seeing as how the healing is the same (correct me if I’m wrong?)

No, it’s quite a bit more healing. It used to be somewhere in the mid-300s every 3s, provided you had full adrenaline (i.e. didn’t burst). Now it’s just under 2500 health over 15s per stage of adrenaline used when landing a burst, with a maximum of 3 stacks (so just under 500 health/s).

Whether it’s too high remains to be seen. While just under 900 health/s (including Healing Signet, and assuming no healing power) is a lot of healing, it’s in the context of warrior having serious sustain issues at 370/s.

While I’ve noticed the increased sustain in a fight, I haven’t found it to be particularly overpowered, nor is it in the running for top-tier sustain.

Choppy.4183:

ronpierce.2760:

That said, I feel the number is a little high, the pay off is certainly exceeding the risk involved by quite a bit. Seeing as how the healing is the same (correct me if I’m wrong?)

No, it’s quite a bit more healing. It used to be somewhere in the mid-300s every 3s, provided you had full adrenaline (i.e. didn’t burst). Now it’s just under 2500 health over 15s per stage of adrenaline used when landing a burst, with a maximum of 3 stacks (so just under 500 health/s).

Whether it’s too high remains to be seen. While just under 900 health/s (including Healing Signet, and assuming no healing power) is a lot of healing, it’s in the context of warrior having serious sustain issues at 370/s.

While I’ve noticed the increased sustain in a fight, I haven’t found it to be particularly overpowered, nor is it in the running for top-tier sustain.

This, once my zerker stance runs out, even with 3 stacks of Adrenal Health, I get melted by conditions. Same issues still apply. One trick ponies with no access to protection of converting condis to boons.

Addressing readers is better left to another thread. But for the sake of this thread let me just say readers still have an edge on us. A propped Condi warrior can outlast their shroud and health now and power warriors cans bust them down quickly but readers still have more sustain and more ways to lo co us down. I have had some success running sword torch Long now. And some success running greater axe shield but my CCD build using mace shield hammer still gets wrecked even thou it decimated other classes

So far my biggest nemesis are thieves. They thank us way before we an build adrenaline for even tied 1 bursts. But it’s fair because if I hit them even once they are pretty well screwed.

People are arguing semantics over passive and active.

The nature of AH is passive. It is literally but not technically a BOON that stacks 3 times. It’s basically super REGEN. The nature of a BOON is passive because you get benefits from it by simply having it on you. What’s better is that it can’t be corrupted or stripped, kinda like Berserker Stance of old.

However, getting that boon on you is ACTIVE in the truest sense of the word. If you manage to never land a Burst, you were outplayed or you need to L2P. In this scenario, the passive boon is being denied to you in a similar fashion as a Mesmer repeatedly dazing your heal. It rewards you for successfully hitting your burst which is an active component.

AH is basically Troll Unguent but with a different way to activate it. The buff itself Troll Unguent is inherently passive but the action itself to get it is deliberate and thus can be exploited.

The argument now stems to whether AH is deliberate or not because landing bursts is what everyone would be doing anyway. Technically AH requires a few conditions to be true but the gameplay itself can trivialize those conditions (like using a Longbow or primal spam) so the conditions themselves may as well not be there.

I’d rather see discussion on whether AH might get nerfed, if it has made warriors not garbage, or whether AH or whatever else is enough to finally see Warriors in proleague.

Nerfed for what? It’s not game breaking. It’s duct tape over the larger issue.

I support this change. It’s a step in the right direction.

Also, this is NOT passive. Adrenal Health requires effort to get the benefits. You have to first build up the adrenaline, then use the burst. It takes effort to maintain. If you don’t do those things, you don’t get the Adrenal Health!

condis and poison uptime can make the heal really ineffective. the heal works like cleansing ire too so you are required to actually hit something to actually get the heal off. unless you are using bow burst skill.

JTGuevara.9018:

I support this change. It’s a step in the right direction.

Also, this is NOT passive. Adrenal Health requires effort to get the benefits. You have to first build up the adrenaline, then use the burst. It takes effort to maintain. If you don’t do those things, you don’t get the Adrenal Health!

yes exactly . most classes like mesmer and guardian have passive skills that keep them alive. Endure pain is probably the only thing but the warrior can still but stunned / crowd controlled. you actually have to get the burst skill off to receive the benefits. there’s some counter-play to it. like blinds or poison / condition upkeep. I like the knew heal.

Juba.8406:

This is a perma +495 HP/s assuming you have 0 Healing Power.

Its so easy to maintain 3 stacks Adrenal Health all time. much easier than sitting on full adrenaline bar as used with old Adrenal Health.

With healing signet +381 HP/s

thats 876 hp/s = 26,280 hp every 30s.

What do you think ? will we see QQ posts about warrior again ?

Doubt it, While the change is nice in deed, PVP is about bursting (to its detriment). Steady over time skills are much weaker than 1 off high impact skills.

Not touching the discussion about Adrenal Health being passive or not but the change in general feels like a boon overall to me as well. Our sustain feels more “umphy” in high pressure situations compared to the old static AH. I’ve experienced a few scenarios that required kiting off point (hence no bursting) where the old AH would have had the advantage, albeit a tiny one, but other than that I like this change a lot. Ty Anet!

Warrior sustain is so broken, I didnt test in pvp but in wvw everytime anet buffs something it becomes broken. If you combine adrenal health + mango pie + rousing resilience + the healing signet + longbow for stacking might, boon duration and around 3k armor with signet of dolyak, you basically heal per second more than the dmg I deal on this class, considering the almost perma resistance and tons of stability I saw on wvw warrior builds. Is like you burst on them and in 3s they are already full hp wtf.

And if you do that Condi bombs will erase you. also Rousing resilience totally depends on being stunned. if yuo don’t get stunned when you need to you don’t get the heals. Well, i guess you can always stun yourself with headbutt, then break it by entering berserk giving yourself a heal. but really.

Yes, the adrenal health change is far more powerful than old Adrenal health, but it’s not broken. Other classes just have not gotten used to fighting the warrior now that we have sustain. Once they get used to it it will even out.

emkelly.2371:

And if you do that Condi bombs will erase you. also Rousing resilience totally depends on being stunned. if yuo don’t get stunned when you need to you don’t get the heals. Well, i guess you can always stun yourself with headbutt, then break it by entering berserk giving yourself a heal. but really.

Yes, the adrenal health change is far more powerful than old Adrenal health, but it’s not broken. Other classes just have not gotten used to fighting the warrior now that we have sustain. Once they get used to it it will even out.

Yea it’s not broken, take in consideration that it may be oppressive if you are 1v1 duel and not applying a lot of pressure, then the heal is seen as OP or broken. But the heal was specifically added to sustain in group fights. Anet do not add skills or balance them for duelers (1v1) or small scale fights. Gotta remember also about PvE and Raids and such. So Yes I agree with this change.

Its like DH traps when they first came out. It took a while for people to learn to fight them.

No one really worried about fighting warriors in the last 2 seasons since they were all glass cannon Gunflame . Now they have to re-learn how to fight Warrior. It will take a couple weeks but by the time season 3 starts it won’t be that hard.

Spartacus.3192:

Its like DH traps when they first came out. It took a while for people to learn to fight them.

No one really worried about fighting warriors in the last 2 seasons since they were all glass cannon Gunflame . Now they have to re-learn how to fight Warrior. It will take a couple weeks but by the time season 3 starts it won’t be that hard.

I will imagine there will be a new meta arising soon that wont include warriors anyway. Maybe some bleed stacking condi necro since the chills got nerfed lol

Julius Seizure.4985:

Dogged March (- duration) and Warrior’s Sprint (passive run speed). Each of these have a unique second attribute that is also very powerful.

What!? you call the regen from Dogged March “very powerful” we dont even notice the thing.

Again why would mesmer need to cure immobilize on movement skills ? he got far better movement skills that ignores immobilize any way.

You know what, whatever dude…..

The fact remains, in order for warrior to get effects like what the “Minor” Time Marches On gives then he must equip TWO major traits.

If I wasn’t sold on the new AH before, I certainly became so last night.

Teq fight pre-patch I could stand in the red fields for a short amount of time before needing to leave.

Teq fight post-patch (last night) I stood in the red fields and stayed at full health. Multiple times this happened. I haven’t changed my build in any way; the new AH is the only difference.

(disclaimer: the build I run is all about surviving anything… I am running many more things that heal than just AH)

~EW

Small fyi: AH has finally been updated on the wiki.

~EW

dominik.9721:

No it is not wrong, it is my decision to consider sth. passive. And a trait that provides passive 7,5k heal over 15 seconds for a minimal action is in my eyes passive not active.
This isn’t science where I say 1+1 is not 2.

You’re wrong. You have to do two things to trigger the buff: (1) Trigger a burst, and (2) actually land the burst. Both actions require observation, judgment, and timing to successfully accomplish.

The new Adrenal Health is an active trait, period.

ah is a hot problem, all classes have it. Specialisations is a dumbed down version of the original classes. sustain sustain sustain, block block block, doge doge doge, spam spam spam. xD :.( Think they should do a complete overhaul of the specis actually.

Thuggernaut.1250:

dominik.9721:

No it is not wrong, it is my decision to consider sth. passive. And a trait that provides passive 7,5k heal over 15 seconds for a minimal action is in my eyes passive not active.
This isn’t science where I say 1+1 is not 2.

You’re wrong. You have to do two things to trigger the buff: (1) Trigger a burst, and (2) actually land the burst. Both actions require observation, judgment, and timing to successfully accomplish.

The new Adrenal Health is an active trait, period.

doesn’t matter, the gameplay has not changed, you still doing the same thing, but for some reason more healing, it’s like healing signet all along but also lock you behind a second trait line after discipline and completely ignore the fact that warrior without defense still has 0 sustain compare to the rest of classes without defense line, this change is literally the laziest band aid fix after healing signet buff back in the day, i’m pretty sure that’s because they failed miserably two times and gave up trying

lighter.2708
Thuggernaut.1250:
dominik.9721:
No it is not wrong, it is my decision to consider sth. passive. And a trait that provides passive 7,5k heal over 15 seconds for a minimal action is in my eyes passive not active.
This isn’t science where I say 1+1 is not 2.
You’re wrong. You have to do two things to trigger the buff: (1) Trigger a burst, and (2) actually land the burst. Both actions require observation, judgment, and timing to successfully accomplish.
The new Adrenal Health is an active trait, period.
doesn’t matter, the gameplay has not changed, you still doing the same thing, but for some reason more healing, it’s like healing signet all along but also lock you behind a second trait line after discipline and completely ignore the fact that warrior without defense still has 0 sustain compare to the rest of classes without defense line, this change is literally the laziest band aid fix after healing signet buff back in the day, i’m pretty sure that’s because they failed miserably two times and gave up trying

By this statement you seem to think that discipline is still a mandatory trait line. In actuality it WAS a mandatory trait line. now you can drop it and still be effective because Defense has now got enough oomph to be useful. Yes we still have a “mandatory” trait line, but defense was already pretty much mandatory for warriors. so all this did was remove the need for two trait lines and lowered the mandatory to one.

Your options used to be limited to STR, DEF, DISC or DEF, DISC, BER. Now you can do anything you want so long as you use DEF.

I have run everything so far and almost all of it works (i still suck at Power warrior) in PVP speed is not so much an issue, In WVW Discipline becomes more important, and in PVE you don’t even need Defense. Run STR, ARM, BER and you’ll be fine.

So no. No disrespect but you are just plain wrong. Look at all of the builds that are floating around. they prove my point better than anything i could say.

I mean, in spvp you may get away without taking Disc, maybe especially if Condi based. In WvW that’s a death sentence. I mean 5 adrenaline on wep swap, run speed with immob cure on movement skills, removing a condi stack every 5s, 15% rehcrage rate on burst skills with might stacking every 5s, and either HF or BM. Good luck roaming w/o move speed or reliable condi clear on demand.

What do you honestly gain in the other lines that are better? I mean STR line for the damage modifiers, but Tactics? Arms? Lol

You even claim you suck at power Warrior, you can bring any build you want and I’ll duel you in spvp and wipe the floor with you as power warrior with those mandatory traitlines.

Not really a fan of the change.

Before – I use my bursts if I don’t need the healing or I think the burst would be more beneficial than the heals

Now – well there is no decision making involved anymore. just use burst when available. the healing is also higher. Sounds like a nice buff except it also becomes useless in a situation where you don’t have something to hit.

I have done more testing on this and have come to the conclusion that this is a good overall change to help warrior sustain. It’s not over powered and anybody who says it is should look at their condi ticks. You have to generate adrenaline and hit with F1 to reap the benefits so it’s not free or “passive” like some people have incorrectly stated.

Initially I wasn’t impressed with this buff. As a warrior player I’d like to see more buffs but I’m happy that we have been shown some attention in an area we really, really needed some help.

dominik.9721:

Furajir.3815:

You have to ACTIVATE AND HIT with f1 to get the regen.

Prettttttttttty sure there’s nothing passive about it, you’re literally ACTIVATING a skill to get the bonus that comes from the effect.

Just like you have to ACTIVATE EP for it to give you the effect.

You don’t get Adrenal Health by not doing anything.

Ya’ll trollin, have to be.

I didn’t deny that you actively have to do sth for it. Not sure if you even read my post.

As I said, for the necro transfer trait you also have to do ACTIVELY a critical attack and the scrapper had to get ACTIVELY superspeed and swiftness for his heal-trait – still everyone – me included- considers this passive and not active.

Idk what’s so hard to understand that there are people outside who don’t consider everything active only because you have to press one botton for it.

A trait that heals you for 15 seconds about 500hp each second passively for using one skill once is in my opinion more passive than active – deal with it that there are opinions which are different from yours.

“Passive” by definition in the context that Anet uses it in defining abilities is not up for varying “opinions”. You’re clearly wrong about this. Calling it your opinion doesn’t give you a pass.

emkelly.2371:

lighter.2708
Thuggernaut.1250:
dominik.9721:
No it is not wrong, it is my decision to consider sth. passive. And a trait that provides passive 7,5k heal over 15 seconds for a minimal action is in my eyes passive not active.
This isn’t science where I say 1+1 is not 2.
You’re wrong. You have to do two things to trigger the buff: (1) Trigger a burst, and (2) actually land the burst. Both actions require observation, judgment, and timing to successfully accomplish.
The new Adrenal Health is an active trait, period.
doesn’t matter, the gameplay has not changed, you still doing the same thing, but for some reason more healing, it’s like healing signet all along but also lock you behind a second trait line after discipline and completely ignore the fact that warrior without defense still has 0 sustain compare to the rest of classes without defense line, this change is literally the laziest band aid fix after healing signet buff back in the day, i’m pretty sure that’s because they failed miserably two times and gave up trying

By this statement you seem to think that discipline is still a mandatory trait line. In actuality it WAS a mandatory trait line. now you can drop it and still be effective because Defense has now got enough oomph to be useful. Yes we still have a “mandatory” trait line, but defense was already pretty much mandatory for warriors. so all this did was remove the need for two trait lines and lowered the mandatory to one.

Your options used to be limited to STR, DEF, DISC or DEF, DISC, BER. Now you can do anything you want so long as you use DEF.

I have run everything so far and almost all of it works (i still suck at Power warrior) in PVP speed is not so much an issue, In WVW Discipline becomes more important, and in PVE you don’t even need Defense. Run STR, ARM, BER and you’ll be fine.

So no. No disrespect but you are just plain wrong. Look at all of the builds that are floating around. they prove my point better than anything i could say.

……………discipline just got more mandatory because of the defense line buff with adrenaline health….

drcraig.9403:

dominik.9721:

Furajir.3815:

You have to ACTIVATE AND HIT with f1 to get the regen.

Prettttttttttty sure there’s nothing passive about it, you’re literally ACTIVATING a skill to get the bonus that comes from the effect.

Just like you have to ACTIVATE EP for it to give you the effect.

You don’t get Adrenal Health by not doing anything.

Ya’ll trollin, have to be.

I didn’t deny that you actively have to do sth for it. Not sure if you even read my post.

As I said, for the necro transfer trait you also have to do ACTIVELY a critical attack and the scrapper had to get ACTIVELY superspeed and swiftness for his heal-trait – still everyone – me included- considers this passive and not active.

Idk what’s so hard to understand that there are people outside who don’t consider everything active only because you have to press one botton for it.

A trait that heals you for 15 seconds about 500hp each second passively for using one skill once is in my opinion more passive than active – deal with it that there are opinions which are different from yours.

“Passive” by definition in the context that Anet uses it in defining abilities is not up for varying “opinions”. You’re clearly wrong about this. Calling it your opinion doesn’t give you a pass.

Terms relating to characteristics are always interpretable.
And I still consider traits that require minimal actions for a massive output rather passive than active . I’m just saying what everyone else said to other class-traits (rapid regeneraton, plague sig-trait, etc) – they are all ‘active’ by definition.

dominik.9721:

drcraig.9403:

dominik.9721:

Furajir.3815:

You have to ACTIVATE AND HIT with f1 to get the regen.

Prettttttttttty sure there’s nothing passive about it, you’re literally ACTIVATING a skill to get the bonus that comes from the effect.

Just like you have to ACTIVATE EP for it to give you the effect.

You don’t get Adrenal Health by not doing anything.

Ya’ll trollin, have to be.

I didn’t deny that you actively have to do sth for it. Not sure if you even read my post.

As I said, for the necro transfer trait you also have to do ACTIVELY a critical attack and the scrapper had to get ACTIVELY superspeed and swiftness for his heal-trait – still everyone – me included- considers this passive and not active.

Idk what’s so hard to understand that there are people outside who don’t consider everything active only because you have to press one botton for it.

A trait that heals you for 15 seconds about 500hp each second passively for using one skill once is in my opinion more passive than active – deal with it that there are opinions which are different from yours.

“Passive” by definition in the context that Anet uses it in defining abilities is not up for varying “opinions”. You’re clearly wrong about this. Calling it your opinion doesn’t give you a pass.

Terms relating to characteristics are always interpretable.
And I still consider traits that require minimal actions for a massive output rather passive than active . I’m just saying what everyone else said to other class-traits (rapid regeneraton, plague sig-trait, etc) – they are all ‘active’ by definition.

Okay well, you’re still wrong. Example, rapid regen for Scrapper. The Scrapper does not have to grant himself swiftness or superspeed, he can get them from a party member and get the rapid regen to proc. It’s passive because he does not have to take action to proc the rapid regen.

Plague sending ( trait of plague signet ) is passive. Once you reach the condition threshold it automatically happens. You don’t have to do anything to make it happen.

Your stance that “minimal action for massive output” is hollow and self negating at the same time.

Action=Active

Example: Sitting on the couch and getting up to answer the door is active. You took action to achieve a desired outcome.

Sitting on the couch and letting someone else answer the door is passive. You took no action. Someone else took action to achieve a desired outcome.

Lastly, “terms relating to characteristics are always interpretable”? True, but they can be interpreted incorrectly.

At the risk of getting dragged deep into this discussion….

AH modifies F1 so that F1 has a passive HoT effect in addition to everything else it does. F1 is still an activated skill. AH is a “passive” effect triggered by an activated skill… It’s a part of F1, and not its own separate entity anymore… the AH “passive” effect requires activation.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

At the risk of getting dragged deep into this discussion….

AH modifies F1 so that F1 has a passive HoT effect in addition to everything else it does. F1 is still an activated skill. AH is a “passive” effect triggered by an activated skill… It’s a part of F1, and not its own separate entity anymore… the AH “passive” effect requires activation.

~EW

Is the HoT effect truly passive though? You don’t get the HoT without activating it.

Healing signet has a passive HoT in the truest sense of the word. You do nothing and it indefinitely heals over time.

I appreciate your point, because you made a point. We don’t have to agree

drcraig.9403:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

At the risk of getting dragged deep into this discussion….

AH modifies F1 so that F1 has a passive HoT effect in addition to everything else it does. F1 is still an activated skill. AH is a “passive” effect triggered by an activated skill… It’s a part of F1, and not its own separate entity anymore… the AH “passive” effect requires activation.

~EW

Is the HoT effect truly passive though? You don’t get the HoT without activating it.

Healing signet has a passive HoT in the truest sense of the word. You do nothing and it indefinitely heals over time.

I appreciate your point, because you made a point. We don’t have to agree

Hehe I probably wasn’t very clear, I’m sorry. Let me try saying it this way….

Pre-patch AH was passive… like healing signet or armored attack… now it’s a skill modification… it’s neither exclusively passive or active… it belongs in category 3.

At most it could be considered a passive effect (HoT) requiring activation (F1 use). But ALL trait-based skill modifications fall into this category, which is why it’s neither can be exclusively defined as active or passive… it is no longer a separate entity; no longer a stand-alone trait.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

drcraig.9403:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

At the risk of getting dragged deep into this discussion….

AH modifies F1 so that F1 has a passive HoT effect in addition to everything else it does. F1 is still an activated skill. AH is a “passive” effect triggered by an activated skill… It’s a part of F1, and not its own separate entity anymore… the AH “passive” effect requires activation.

~EW

Is the HoT effect truly passive though? You don’t get the HoT without activating it.

Healing signet has a passive HoT in the truest sense of the word. You do nothing and it indefinitely heals over time.

I appreciate your point, because you made a point. We don’t have to agree

Hehe I probably wasn’t very clear, I’m sorry. Let me try saying it this way….

Pre-patch AH was passive… like healing signet or armored attack… now it’s a skill modification… it’s neither exclusively passive or active… it belongs in category 3.

At most it could be considered a passive effect (HoT) requiring activation (F1 use). But ALL trait-based skill modifications fall into this category, which is why it’s neither can be exclusively defined as active or passive… it is no longer a separate entity; no longer a stand-alone trait.

~EW

Interesting. Food for thought, thanks.

drcraig.9403:

Plague sending ( trait of plague signet ) is passive. Once you reach the condition threshold it automatically happens. You don’t have to do anything to make it happen.

You have to do a crit for the plague trait, so it is according to your strict and weird logic also active, but keep trying you are cute – and just you know I’m not misinterpreting a poem or something I interpret a broad term.