Guild Wars 2

Let me start by saying that I know a redisign such as this is unlikely to ever happen, I just enjoy writing pieces like this.

When ANet was designing Warrior, they apparently wanted it to be a simple class that beginners can pick up and do well with relative ease. It has a simple class mechanic and uncomplicated utility skills.

While this sounds good in theory, in practice this has seriously screwed players who want to main Warrior and play PvP/WvW. Once you know how Warriors fight, beating them becomes simple. While there are techniques like weapon stowing to bait out countermeasures, they can all be applied to any class to improve play. There’s plenty of players that like the idea of a Warrior, but don’t want be hitting the skill ceiling early and having no room to grow. I think it is possible to grow Warrior complexity while still keeping it beginner friendly.

Now, this is a rough concept, so forgive it being light on details in some places. The general concept is to add additional complexity to Warrior’s utility skills and making them more rewarding for experienced players. These ideas will draw heavily from GW1 Warrior design.

The base concept will be to have Adrenaline power your utility skills. The current Adrenaline bar can be renamed Burst Energy or something similar and will remain separate from Adrenaline.

Stances

Not only does it make no sense to be able to be in multiple stances simultaneously, it’s also boring mechanically.

To start, you will only be able to have one Stance active at a time. Instead of a cooldown, they will cost Adrenaline. Now, there might need to be a short CD to avoid “spamming” stances, but nothing as long as the current CDs. The effects will also be modified while keeping the base premise. The amount of adrenaline they cost and duration will of course have to be messed with to find a good balance.

Endure Pain: Instead of reducing all melee damage to 0, it will dramatically lower incoming damage. This is because it would be seeing much more use. The exact numbers of which i won’t go into because w/o testing it’s impossible to say what’s fair.

Berserker’s Stance: Similar to EP, rather that reducing all duration to 0, it will reduce the duration by a significant amount. Again, this is because the idea is to have you constantly swapping stances depending on the situation.

Balanced Stance: I think the idea of a toggleable Break Bar is a cool idea. You could give it the same or slightly less “Stacks” of Stability as before, but the second you change stances you lose the bar.

Frenzy: Rather than giving Swiftness, it just increases your attack speed and maybe increases your damage a small amount. Maybe keep the stun break aspect, though it may not be needed.

Defiant Stance: Should be instant. Hopefully would make it much more useable. Down bellow I talk about changing Defy Pain, it should not affect this Heal to avoid anti-synergy.

These changes would make it possible (in theory) for good Warriors to change stances based on the situation. It would be nice to see the player actually change their stance rather than just glowing.

I would also like to see Last Stand (name change to Stance Mastery or something) changed slightly. Perhaps making Stances cost less Adrenaline and giving the same Vigor boon on activation, and maybe the duration increase but that might be too much. You would lose the Stability, but not only does Berserker offer pulsing Stability, but if Endure Pain and Frenzy keep their Stun Break properties it’s not like you’ll be getting overwhelmed by CC.

Also, I’ve always disliked Defy Pain. Sure, it’s easy to account for but it’s still just a trait that you have no control over. Maybe make it give you additional toughness while in a Stance? You would have to balance Endure Pain around this but this would make it more player controlled. The idea of stacking Endure Pain, Defy Pain, and Rousing Resilience sounds cool. You’d give up Last Stand for that but there would be good synergy with Berserker.

Physical Skills

In order to make these useful I think they will need to be fairly low Adrenaline cost. Even in my changes, Stances will still be important for sustain, so to make them even remotely appealing they need to be more “spammable.” The game is now swimming in anti-CC, so having Physical Skills being able to wear it down might make them more useful.

Not much to change here, the functionality is going to stay the same, they’ll just have an Adrenaline cost (and probably a short CD) now.

I would say the cost of skills should be as follows, in order from least Adren to most:

• Kick/Bolas

• Bull’s Charge: Maybe lower the KD time and make the utility more frequently useable, but more as a gap closer.

• Mending: Should be a Physical skill.

• Stomp

Peak Performance would be more useful imo if it increased range rather than damage based on Burst Energy level.

Shouts

With the nerf to Vigorous Shouts, the utilities became much less useful. I think this nerf should be reverted so that Warrior can once again have the ability to focus on support. In terms of Adrenaline cost, it should vary depending on the Shout. Like last time, I’m listing the Shouts in order from lowest cost to highest.

• “On My Mark!”

• “For Great Justice!”

• “Shake it Off!”: I would also consider making it an AoE Stun Break as well.

• “To the Limit!”: Having this skill fill your Burst Energy seems redundant since Vigorous Shouts already does that. Maybe have it give more endurance than it currently does instead?

• “Fear Me!”

With Adrenaline management being a thing, hopefully Shouts will feel much less spammy and force the player to use them more wisely.

Banners

This is a weird one. It would be nice to see these be used outside of PvE. I would keep them CD based, but change the mechanics. I really, really think these should be something you wear on your back. After activating a Banner, the skill could be replaced with the Banner’s current 2 skill. The passive buffs can stay the same.

Inspiring Battle Standards could bring back the CD reduction, but maybe make it be slightly less than before since the utility of wearing banners could be really strong if combined with stances.

Signets

This one is also hard because in GW1 Signets didn’t cost Adrenaline. I’ll be honest in saying I’m not really sure what works here.

Maybe keep the passives and actives the same, but allow the use of Adrenaline to reduce the CD? That still feels a bit meh though.

I’m open to ideas regarding this.

Rage Skills

This one was hard. How to make them feel different from Physical Skills? One possible idea I like is making it possible to use Rage skills at different tiers like Burst Skills, but instead of it affecting damage, it changes things such as distance and duration. This idea has issues, like how that means you’re only ever use one Rage skill at a time and then you have to start gaining Adrenaline again, but maybe you could change a trait to make them give some adrenaline back.

Sundering Leap: The Distance you leap depends on what tier you’re on. It can vary from less than the current amount to further than the current.

Shattering Blow: It would be really cool if they could figure out how to make this skill useable while moving (something like the Tempest Earth Overload but the Warrior is stomping up rocks and punching them) and the higher amount of Adrenaline you spend the longer it lasts.

Outrage: I’ll be honest, I like this skill as it is, but for the sake of consistency it needs to have something added. Maybe cleanse one condi for each tier?

Head Butt: Maybe just duration of the stun, while slightly upping the default range.

Blood Reckoning: If the idea of this skill has to stay the same, at least make it affect ALL damage, and not just crits. The amount of Adrenaline used can just affect duration.

I’m open for more ideas regarding these utilities as well.

I feel like it’s important that Adrenaline be a part of every utility for it to be an actual Warrior mechanic. It’s similar to Energy on Rev in a way only you start at 0 and move up and the skills aren’t channeled.

Oh sure, leave us in suspense. In any case, we all know what the warrior needs….

Give us Powerthirst and Powerthirst Redomination and problem solved. We’ll be running like Kenyans in no time.

EDIT: Now that I’ve seen everything, is the idea just to recreate gw1 warrior’s separate energy and adren resources? And, if so, would adren in this case basically function like the thief’s initiative?

I like the idea’s, but they haven’t been pushed far enough in my opinion.
After playing high level fractals and raids, but having less in game in Pvp the same dynamic keeps featuring as ‘optimal.’

1) groups quickness
2) fast break bar
3)Group boon share
4)perma max vulnerability
5)combo fields.

This leads to the optimal group being;
1)mesmer-alacrity
2)revenant-boon share/breakbar/blindness
3)Great sword reaper-vulnerability/blindness
4)ele-combo fields/boon share
5)Guardian -quickess/breakbar/vulnerability/blindness/block

swap out reaper for scrapper if you want to skip a lot of trash mobs, but keep break bar and boon share/combo fields

add druid for raids.

With this group you’ll stay on perma on 25 might/fury/25 vulnerability/protection and light speed break bar. There is still no need to take a warrior for any reason.

They’re great idea’s, but they only affect warrior in the Pvp scene, but still leaves them redundant in PvE.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I like the idea’s, but they haven’t been pushed far enough in my opinion.
After playing high level fractals and raids, but having less in game in Pvp the same dynamic keeps featuring as ‘optimal.’

1) groups quickness
2) fast break bar
3)Group boon share
4)perma max vulnerability
5)combo fields.

This leads to the optimal group being;
1)mesmer-alacrity
2)revenant-boon share/breakbar/blindness
3)Great sword reaper-vulnerability/blindness
4)ele-combo fields/boon share
5)Guardian -quickess/breakbar/vulnerability/blindness/block

swap out reaper for scrapper if you want to skip a lot of trash mobs, but keep break bar and boon share/combo fields

add druid for raids.

With this group you’ll stay on perma on 25 might/fury/25 vulnerability/protection and light speed break bar. There is still no need to take a warrior for any reason.

They’re great idea’s, but they only affect warrior in the Pvp scene, but still leaves them redundant in PvE.

Isn’t Berserker being used for the LB primal burst with Viper Stats? Also, isn’t Phalanx Strength still seeing plenty of use? I’ve only been solo PvEing as of late.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Isn’t Berserker being used for the LB primal burst with Viper Stats? Also, isn’t Phalanx Strength still seeing plenty of use? I’ve only been solo PvEing as of late.

Yes. The LB primal burst exploit has warrior condi dps at some 40%~ higher then the next leading contenders, so warriors are very desirable as condi dps. They are additionally highly desired melee direct damagers, since they bring phalanx strength+empowered allies+banners, combined with high personal dps.
Warriors, for all their pvp woes, are actually in a very strong position in PvE/raiding (more or less as usual).

The stances idea are exactly what ive been wanting for a long time so im glad someone else is on the same page there. Instead of a cooldown however i suggested a negative effect from allowing your adrenaline to deplete completely while using a stance and applying a debuff. Essentially warrior over exerts and becomes fatigued if adrenaline is not controlled.

I support all of BurrTheKing’s suggestions. Let’s see how close ANet gets tomorrow with the preview of the upcoming patch.

Interesting post on using warriors adrenalin to help fuel skills, but where’s the remarks on warriors current adrenal drain?

What would happen to adrenal health and burst skills dependant on adrenalin level if it is used to power everything else? Would adrenalin start off full and be consumed as the thieves initiative is?

Why is it geared toward the “good warriors” and how many “good warriors” are still playing compared to the times before the back to back nerfs?

Do any of the “good Warriors” actually think that there’s not a problem with the direction that warriors has been taken, to the point that they want to go further in that direction?

I’m sorry but unless more pressing, long term concerns are addressed it seems to me the the opening post is nothing more then a long, drawn out, eloquently phrased attempt championing another nerf for the warrior.

This is how it starts. With someone complaining about warrior being “boring” and too simple while giving an example of some outrageous skill that does unheard of damage.

Only on the warrior channel will you see people consistently advocate for the nerfing/breaking of a class they claim as a main.

I come to these conclusions due to the lack of remarks on the current state of adrenalin, stances and bugged out physical skills. Plus the fact that displacing adrenaline has been going has been going on for more the two years. They succeeded
with the last adrenalin change and now they’re back for more.

BurrTheKing.8571:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I like the idea’s, but they haven’t been pushed far enough in my opinion.
After playing high level fractals and raids, but having less in game in Pvp the same dynamic keeps featuring as ‘optimal.’

1) groups quickness
2) fast break bar
3)Group boon share
4)perma max vulnerability
5)combo fields.

This leads to the optimal group being;
1)mesmer-alacrity
2)revenant-boon share/breakbar/blindness
3)Great sword reaper-vulnerability/blindness
4)ele-combo fields/boon share
5)Guardian -quickess/breakbar/vulnerability/blindness/block

swap out reaper for scrapper if you want to skip a lot of trash mobs, but keep break bar and boon share/combo fields

add druid for raids.

With this group you’ll stay on perma on 25 might/fury/25 vulnerability/protection and light speed break bar. There is still no need to take a warrior for any reason.

They’re great idea’s, but they only affect warrior in the Pvp scene, but still leaves them redundant in PvE.

Isn’t Berserker being used for the LB primal burst with Viper Stats? Also, isn’t Phalanx Strength still seeing plenty of use? I’ve only been solo PvEing as of late.

Despite what other warriors are saying the reality is primal longbow burst with vipers is not meta. It is a gimmick of simply overlapping hit boxes on a boss that isn’t mobile and has multi hit boxes due to their size. Anything that moves and it is a fail build. Anything that doesn’t move and is massive it’s a boring build that revolving around the one concept only only of spam burst when off recharge. Hence why i said high fractals, PvX play. It is nothing spectacular apart from one raid boss. The changes to the above mentioned professions means each one is capable of stacking their own personal might to 25, or to the high teens. The revenant presence along side assassin presence and facets and the ele ensures everyone is under 25 might and 100% fury up time. There is no real reason to bring warrior. In order to break bar they do reduced damage, in order to do massive damage they offer none of the desired qualities. They just can’t produce enough fields to prime or detonate to create auras and AoE.
I like the ideas of adrenaline stances that flow in and out of each other and the idea of mobile banners, it is a good start for warrior in regards to PvP, but creatively warrior’s pool of anet sanction idea’s has become stale. When one looks at their newest offering of a melee profession with revenant they are quite one dimensional and nobody yet has really found a way of making ventari legend work in the support capacity. They merely warrior 2.0 and thief on steroids mashed together with nothing really new in terms of how one plays and what one can do with them. if anything the revenant energy pooling fueling legendary stances skills would have been a better idea for warrior adrenaline.

Looking back on this thread post patch makes me wish we had a system like this even more. The class has barely changed since the patch and will probably see no use in serious PvP.

I’m really considering quitting for a while or just going full time Scrapper and accept that I’m OP.