Guild Wars 2

Hey,

So if you’ve not seen it, I’m referring to the podacast here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Adrenaline-Rising-July-14th-Stein/first#post2423262

… and I got inspired to start a constructive feedback thread and write some things down while they were fresh. Anyone with constructive feedback is welcome to add in.

Active Adrenal Health

So my first thought was about a “healing bursts” trait, and how this idea of using your burst skill and being healed per adrenaline bar had been floating around, how thieves get this on steal, guardians get it on dodge, elementalists get it on switching to water attunement, coupled with the idea of adrenaline being more of an active resource than a passive one.

Out of this I pondered Adrenal Health and how I had to build up adrenaline to get it to do anything, but then I’d burst before it really had that chance to do anything, and that this 15 point defence trait was the exact spot to be having a heal-on-burst active trait. It’s exactly where the elementalist and guardian get their heal-on-action; it’s the perfect slot for the warrior to have theirs.

So in terms of magnitude, as a starting point to go up or down (numbers are totally flexible), I was looking at 500 + 0.5*Healing Power per adrenaline bar spent . That would be 500-1,500 @ zero Healing Power, 1,000-3,000 @ 1K Healing Power. If you think about doing a burst, using Healing Surge (skill 6), doing another burst, that’s a fair chunk of health put back.

Shield Skill Compression

So, warriors are the masters of weapons, right? Wrong. Dead wrong. Oh so wrong – especially when it come to the shield, an engineer will make a warrior cry.

Let’s start with the warrior’s shield: we have a leaping stun on 4, with a 25s cooldown, and a 3s shield stance on 5 with a 30s cooldown.

On the engineer I have a toolkit with a Gearshield, which is a 3s block on a 20s cooldown – 10s shorter cooldown than the warrior!

But wait, because that’s not even the engineer’s shield. Both of the engineer’s shield skills are 2-in-1’s that represent excellent skill compression. Skill 4 is a projectile reflect that can be detonated into a blast finisher and pbaoe pushback. Skill 5 is a shield stance that stuns attackers, but before it ends can be thrown like the greatsword’s Bladetrail to daze foes in a line and then daze them again on the return – potentially a stun + 2 dazes on some attacker, and dazes on anyone in the flight path. Amazing!!

So, what can warriors do with a shield again? Yeah. Let’s look at skill compression.

The warrior’s skill 4 and 5 can basically be compressed into a single skill 4 on a 25s cooldown. You enter shield stance on your first press of 4, and perform shield bash on your second press of 4.

So, you could double-tap to just bash right away, or you could drop into shield stance, march to wherever and launch into a bash, or just let it expire. This opens slot 5 to a totally new skill, or even a new 2-in-1 skill.

My candidate for a new skill 5 is Protector’s Defence (remember that from GW1? ). What this does, is allow the warrior to block attacks aimed at allies within a small radius, say 120 units. This is like the bodyguarding from Dark Age of Camelot, and more intimate than the large magical effects the guardian provides.

Kit-like Banners

I think I mentioned this somewhere before but seriously, banners are not viable as clunky monstrosities.

The kit-like banner would be drawn into your hand when you activate the utility. It can be put back with either no cooldown, or your weapon-switch cooldown. The banner can still be planted using skill 5, which puts the banner on full cooldown even if you pick it back up.

The elite banner would not be kit-like and would stay exactly as it is. (probably)

I thought the Adrenal Health suggestion was a little off. The community has already complained a lot about how Cleansing Ire needs to land in order to cleanse, and now we are going to ask the devs to change Adrenal Health to function the same way?

I think having it be, “Heal for X health per bar of adrenaline gained. At full adrenaline, regenerate health.” would be stronger and make it work for Adrenaline sitters and Burst spammers alike.

I’m also going to say I didn’t agree with changing Heightened Focus and Berserker’s Power to only be post-burst bonuses. Just because someone likes to sit on their adrenaline and you don’t, doesn’t mean those traits need to change and that playstyle needs to disappear. It means adrenaline oriented traits need to function equally well in either type of build; especially when they are Grandmaster level. The suggestion I would make off the top of my head would be to have those bonuses linger. There are a couple of ways you could do that:

1) Gain 10% crit/dmg(respectively) for 2/3/5 seconds for each bar of adrenaline spent.

2) For each bar of adrenaline spent, gain 5/10/15% crit/damage(respectively) for 5 seconds.

Note that one of these would be an addition to Heightened Focus and Berserker’s Power, not replace them entirely.

Those numbers may be a little strong, but I believe the concept is sound. I dialed down the % in the first example because having 15% linger for up to 5 seconds in an adrenaline gaining build could be too strong. 30 in arms and 30 in discipline would make it possible to have nearly 100% uptime on the bonus while simultaneously spaming bursts. But then again, maybe a hefty investment of 60 points to achieve a playstyle like that isn’t necessarily way out of balance.

I think a rework is on the cards. We are really, really basic classes because we were the first to be developed. Necro has had it. Guardians have had it a long time ago which has kept them in a good place. We will have our time.

It’s already been confirmed that they are looking into our healing. I can only Hope that they have a grand vision for warriors that require a fair amount of work to complete which is why we haven’t heard much.

Here’s hoping!

I’d still love a developer stream or something like suggested on the podcast just to give us a heads up about future plans. We can give good feedback!!!

KarlusDavius.1024:

I think a rework is on the cards. We are really, really basic classes because we were the first to be developed. Necro has had it. Guardians have had it a long time ago which has kept them in a good place. We will have our time.

It’s already been confirmed that they are looking into our healing. I can only Hope that they have a grand vision for warriors that require a fair amount of work to complete which is why we haven’t heard much.

Here’s hoping!

I’d still love a developer stream or something like suggested on the podcast just to give us a heads up about future plans. We can give good feedback!!!

I’m really sorry to dash your hopes but during the SotG all the developers could say about Warrior changes were along the lines of “we’re looking at increasing their base HP only in PvP, and see how that works out” and “Warriors were really strong in the Beta Weekend events and we want to make sure we take it slow with their changes so as not to make them ‘unstoppable beasts’.”

Anyway back on topic I’m just going to quote myself regarding this week’s A.R.:

That was a fantastic podcast! Thank you Stein for bringing some discussion of very plausible changes to warrior mechanics and actually working on a detailed “thesis” of sorts for the developers, I pray they watched that. It was very interesting how many of these ideas meshed with my own train of thought and you should rest assured that you’re not the only warrior who thinks this is the right direction to go.

I definitely agree with encouraging Warriors to use their Burst Skills. Some people might argue that sitting on your adrenaline is a “play style” they enjoy, but really, it’s your class mechanic, why aren’t you using it? I feel that really the only reason this is a “Play Style” is because the GS’s burst skill is terrible, and people love them some GS.

More benefits from being able to land your burst skill such as healing (Adrenal Health rework) and having mechanics that help us land said Burst skill would go a long way towards equalizing the dynamism of Warriors with other classes.

Another point I feel is important is what OP said about “Skill Compression”. Warriors have extremely straightforward skills and I have always felt this is a gigantic negative when it comes to measuring up against the other classes. A very large majority of our skills are “deal damage”. That’s it!

Meanwhile other classes have single skills that perform multiple actions at the same time; like Mesmer’s vuln causing, boon ripping sword autoattack that deals 50% more damage when the foe has no boons, Blurred Frenzy which is both a low cooldown damage negation with moderate damage, iLeap which is clone generation+immob+gap closing, Thief’s evade+gap closing+boon stealing Flanking-Larcenous Strike, OP’s example of Engineer’s Shield variants…. Warriors just don’t have that flexibility available in their weapon sets, forcing them to use up utility slots just to perform functions inherently available in the other class’s weaponsets.

This is most apparent in a comparison of the generic GC warrior burst combo vs the generic GC Mesmer’s burst combo. While a Warrior has to use up multiple utility slots [Frenzy(optional)] [Bull’s Rush] [Endure Pain], a Mesmer has his protection during his burst combo through Blurred Frenzy [Endure Pain], his CC and gap closer through iLeap and optionally Magical Bullet [Bull’s Rush], leaving him free to run utilities that significantly benefit the Team.

Ultimately it’s the Developer’s irrational fear of giving Warriors the same “flavour” they gave the other classes that is the class’s downfall.

Another point I think is important is how many traits we have dedicated to every specific weapon we are able to equip. While it’s in a way a good thing that we have many weapon options, it’s not that significant in the big picture due to only being able to equip 2 weaponsets anway just like the rest of the classes can. Meanwhile the large number of traits dedicated to each individual weapon is needlessly taking up a lot of space that could be much more interesting traits, and that is an area that could use a lot of compression.

I wish there was a transcript of the Podcast so I remembered exactly what they brought up needs to be changed with Warrior so I could comment on them..

Jzaku.9765:

I’m really sorry to dash your hopes but during the SotG all the developers could say about Warrior changes were along the lines of “we’re looking at increasing their base HP only in PvP, and see how that works out” and “Warriors were really strong in the Beta Weekend events and we want to make sure we take it slow with their changes so as not to make them ‘unstoppable beasts’.”

Anyway back on topic I’m just going to quote myself regarding this week’s A.R.:

I definitely agree with encouraging Warriors to use their Burst Skills. Some people might argue that sitting on your adrenaline is a “play style” they enjoy, but really, it’s your class mechanic, why aren’t you using it? I feel that really the only reason this is a “Play Style” is because the GS’s burst skill is terrible, and people love them some GS.

More benefits from being able to land your burst skill such as healing (Adrenal Health rework) and having mechanics that help us land said Burst skill would go a long way towards equalizing the dynamism of Warriors with other classes.

Other classes have traits that allow players to sit on their mechanic. Mesmers, Necros, Engineers, Thieves, Rangers, Ele to a lesser degree. They are there to provide lower skill caps, but they can still be worked into builds used by skilled players. They offer an additional facet to gameplay.

I don’t adrenaline sit all the time, but holding your adrenaline can be very advantageous. In the case of the warrior, not only for increased damage and healing but also for applying heavy damage or CC at the right time. Having the traits support both styles benefits everyone. How it is right now only benefits sitters, which I don’t agree with. Changing it to supporting only spammers is no better because the class as a whole doesn’t gain another dynamic… it just moves sideways. So my question would be, if our traits supported both styles equally, why is there an argument against that?

I do agree with you on weapon trait compression. I think our vast weapon choices are actually a curse. Other classes have very versatile weapons. Ours are much more thematic and provide very little versatility. That leaves us with setting up our big damage with one weapon set then swapping to another at the cost of bringing a ranged weapon or relying on utilities that are already at a premium because of stun breakers, burst avoidance, condi management, and stability being all but required. This same concept can be seen in our CD reducing weapon traits that contribute very little to the entire build.

Veritas.6071:

Other classes have traits that allow players to sit on their mechanic. Mesmers, Necros, Engineers, Thieves, Rangers, Ele to a lesser degree. They are there to provide lower skill caps, but they can still be worked into builds used by skilled players. The offer an additional facet to gameplay.

I don’t adrenaline sit all the time, but holding your adrenaline can be very advantageous. In the case of the warrior, not only for increase damage and healing but also for applying heavy damage or CC at the right time. Having the traits support both styles benefits everyone. How it is right now only benefits sitters, which I don’t agree with. Changing it to supporting only spammers is no better because the class as a whole doesn’t gain another dynamic… it just moves sideways. So my question would be, if our traits supported both styles equally, why is there an argument against that?

That is a valid point, should they make our traits benefit both ends of the adrenaline bar that would be excellent. I just have this horrible sinking feeling that whenever it comes to Warrior design we get "OR"s when other classes get "AND"s, if you know what I mean.

Jzaku.9765:

Veritas.6071:

Other classes have traits that allow players to sit on their mechanic. Mesmers, Necros, Engineers, Thieves, Rangers, Ele to a lesser degree. They are there to provide lower skill caps, but they can still be worked into builds used by skilled players. The offer an additional facet to gameplay.

I don’t adrenaline sit all the time, but holding your adrenaline can be very advantageous. In the case of the warrior, not only for increase damage and healing but also for applying heavy damage or CC at the right time. Having the traits support both styles benefits everyone. How it is right now only benefits sitters, which I don’t agree with. Changing it to supporting only spammers is no better because the class as a whole doesn’t gain another dynamic… it just moves sideways. So my question would be, if our traits supported both styles equally, why is there an argument against that?

That is a valid point, should they make our traits benefit both ends of the adrenaline bar that would be excellent. I just have this horrible sinking feeling that whenever it comes to Warrior design we get "OR"s when other classes get "AND"s, if you know what I mean.

Again, I don’t disagree with you. I think it has to do with “OR”/“And” as well as the safest call. We are starting to see some warriors make it into tournament play and “viable?!” threads pop up. That’s a positive change. I’ve seen studios make sweeping changes to class mechanics in the past and, unfortunately, it sometimes spells disaster. I think the fact that we are starting to see favorable responses to the changes will encourage Anet to continue making small adjustments. However, J Sharp mentioned in the SotG that he wants to open up another playstyle for the Guardian that revolves around punishing their attackers through counter play, so they are definitely going to keep expanding the class capabilities. For that reason, I’ll always ask for steak (but balanced steak), and if I get ground beef, I get ground beef.

Great examples of how I’d like to see adrenaline usage treated:
Supreme Justic
Absolute Resolution
Indomitable Courage

Hey guys, just wanted to tip my hat for an awesome read so far. Keep the info coming please.

I’d also like to thank you for bring up the or/and topic. Even though I have a topic about conflicting “warrior traits”, this topic is exactly the way warrior traits in general could be compared to other “profession’s traits”. I’ll definitely be doing some research and comparisons about this.

Don’t worry I’ll give credit where credit is do. Thank you.

STEIN.8409:

Hey guys, just wanted to tip my hat for an awesome read so far. Keep the info coming please.

I’d also like to thank you for bring up the or/and topic. Even though I have a topic about conflicting “warrior traits”, this topic is exactly the way warrior traits in general could be compared to other “profession’s traits”. I’ll definitely be doing some research and comparisons about this.

Don’t worry I’ll give credit where credit is do. Thank you.

I know with time constraints, we weren’t able to hear everything you plan on addressing. Is there anything in particular you’d like the community to give their opinion on?

Anything really. Just keep in mind I’m not incorporating the entire project to be about skill/trait changes or ideas. It’s more about perspectives about the profession and the directions it can go. I’m trying to think outside the box for anet and bring up ideas that they may or may not have thought of yet. Then hopefully with that sort of feedback anet can understand the point of view of the warrior community better and make adjustments that we might be more receptive too and may have greater effects in the long run. There’s way more to the class than just skills and prof. mechanics. Play styles, preferences, comparisons, trade off options, actual usage and skill cap, etc, are some examples. I’ve already done a couple interviews today and I can tell you that they’ve pointed out at least 2-3 new perspectives on topics that I haven’t even considered.

This may be a solo constructed report, but it’s intent to contain the voice of a majority. I thank all participants who have contributed already. My inbox is always open and I’m always up for 1 on 1 warrior discussions with people who have valid input.

Well, I have always thought that the risk+cost to reward ratio is really skewed against Warriors for no real reason whatsoever.
Just looking at a comparison of the boon hate mechanic given to Thief and Warrior at the exact same time, while the thief gets a skill that evades and steals 2 boons off an enemy that can be used extremely frequently baked right into their weapon, warrs got… a direct damage boost per boon, one that doesn’t even surpass protection like what the thief can do, on a Master trait in a traitline with many other fantastic traits.
There’s also the matter of Heartseeker serving the exact same function as Eviscerate and Final Thrust with much better gap closing and responsiveness. Admittedly it does have a 33.3% lower damage modifier, but it’s made up by how the initiative system works allowing it to be used multiple times. Really, there are many abilities and combos that you can compare to warr’s that just do so much more for so much less.

Related to DotE and more relevantly Cleansing Ire, you might want to mention that they should stop fixing classes through traits because if the class had issues before, and you create a new trait to fix those issues, it becomes a compulsory trait for the class to…. stop having issues.

Regarding the irrational reluctance to give warriors the same tools the other classes have, they have stated almost every single SotG that “the warrior was too strong in the beta weekend events, and we want to take it slow with changes”, which is feel is complete nonsense and a total non-issue when speaking about balance now, 11(?) months into the game and people have actually learnt how to mitigate damage and counter the very obvious, albeit high damage, abilities the warrior has.

As for a way to indirectly help pvp Warriors, blind is completely insane in it’s current buffed status and it almost completely shuts down any melee build, the most common ones being on Warrior. Not only do you have to chase down the user, but you have to spend the time to attack and “miss”, which depending on your weapon at the time can have terrible aftercast or animations wasting a lot of time, during which the blind user has free reign to do whatever he wants. It also significantly affects the viability of running hammer, being (afaik) the only very slow attacking weapon to exist in the game (at least mace has some fast activating attacks).

In it’s current iteration, blind is essentially the condition version of aegis and I feel that it should either be applied as infrequently as aegis, or reverted back to it’s original functionality. Giving warriors traits just to deal with blinds seems extremely needless and addressing the symptoms, not the root of the issue.

I’ve also toyed with the idea of giving warrs smoke fields due to us having the highest amount of accessible combo finishers in the game. I don’t think this will be particularly overpowered due to requiring the combination of a field and finisher to access stealth as opposed to thieves just having direct access to it, and us not having the initiative system and thus generally can only finisher through it once for 3s of stealth. Just thought it was an interesting idea!

I vote for second skill bar for weapons which we will be able to toggle at any time we want. first set for offensive, second for defensive. I think we deserve that as “masters of weapons”

I would just like to state that I would NOT like the stun and the stance being compressed into one. I wouldn’t want to have to waste my block every time I want to set up a burst or something. Needing the stun to set up other attacks is probably exactly why it isn’t compressed together. The Engi’s compressed shield skill also has a 40s cooldown – forgot to mention that, I wouldn’t want that increase either.

Direct profession comparisons of skills is silly and will never work.

@Jzaku

I hesitate to compare other classes’ skills directly to our own because the whole is usually greater than the sum of its parts. For everything the other classes bring, the warrior can bring some nifty trick. It’s just that, currently, their parts seem to easily counter many of ours. The parts of the warrior, CC, heavy burst, high base armor and health values sound great on paper, but when they meet stealth, high mobility, plentiful damage avoidance, solid heals, and protection in the digital arena, often times we find ourselves being picked apart. Which begins to circle back to our lack of flexibility and needing to bring so many tools to accomplish a relatively simple task such as landing your big damage or dealing with condis. Many of the things I mentioned, we can deal with, but doing so requires very specific builds that don’t leave the player with many options, and smart opponents adjust accordingly to avoid your strength. At the same time, a more well rounded warrior, historically, hasn’t stood up as well in tournament play because they lack one or more of the tools needed to fully take advantage of all of their parts, so you ended up with a heavily armored 18k health pool of mediocrity.

I do agree with you that our version of combating boons is pretty lack luster. The primary issue I see is that if you run into someone running lots of boons without Prot, you are probably going to wreck them quick, fast, and in a hurry, but if your target brings Prot, they are still mitigating more damage than our Master trait gives, and that holds true even if they run every boon in the book. So do you buff the damage and drive the poor non-Prots deeper into the dirt? or do you leave it in its current state of being not terrible, but not as effective as we’d hoped? Meanwhile, other classes are completely removing, converting, or even stealing boons. Stein, I know you said you are looking more for perspectives than ideas, but I’ve been chatting with another warrior about this very issue, and I’d be glad to share what we’ve discussed with you.

As far as the new blind, I think the issue is being compounded by… again, our lack of flexibility. Most of the tournament builds I’ve seen rely on one melee weapon set to fill damage, mobility, or control and the other melee set to fill whichever of those roles are lacking with the first. The weapons have to work in tandem for us to do what we do best, big damage. The longbow has some amount of control but most times, players find it more advantageous to bring a GS or sword for staying in melee range and dpsing targets of opportunity. We are constantly striving to be in melee range and don’t have the ability to reliably remove blinds before we arrive there. I think if we didn’t have to use one set to prep the other, we’d be able to bring more versatile warriors to the fight. Utility skills are also capable of filling playstyle gaps to open up space for a ranged weapon, but a stun break is pretty much required so for our first choice, we only get to choose from 6 of our 20 skills, and in reality only have two utility slots that we can use to enhance our chosen style, but we still have to deal with condis, team support, defense, and CC or mobility if those are still missing… just to name a few…

I’ll grant that many of these problems can be alleviated through team play, but I’m reminded of a match I saw of Team Paradigm when Moldran was running his 100b/Frenzy build. As soon as he stepped into view, he got called out and everyone watched him because they knew what his job was… make his big damage unavoidable or relying on a teammate to help him CC. The moment his window of opportunity opened, if he wasn’t dead, he got countered. That is much harder to accomplish that against other classes so why not bring them instead?

I know I keep harping on flexibility, but I think that is killing us right now. I won’t go into specifics on the weapons, but our mobile weapons aren’t thrashing anyone without them being CCed, and our damaging weapons are less mobile. On top of that, because, in the past, we had the capability of being terrifyingly offensive, we weren’t built with mountains of sustain. So we kinda don’t really do anything. We can’t competitively bunker, we can’t bring our massive damage to bear without CC… which can still be countered, and our offensive support isn’t so monumental that it can’t be gone without or brought, to some degree, by a different class.

@ Veritas

If you don’t compare your class with the other classes then you will never get it fixed. Ppl should know what the other classes are capable of and what they are actually getting in comparison.

Literally everything we do can be done with another class much better.

Many of our single abilities are inferior to other classes.

Our shield vs. engy shield+toolkit

our evis vs. heart seeker

etc etc

We gave up a long time ago on fixing the class so now we want to be on equal footing at least to some of the other classes in their abilities.

I think Jzaku, Veritas and XII are correct. I believe it takes a healthy combination of individual profession analysis as well as cross profession comparison. Those two factors help produce a balanced and “complete” evaluation of the profession, as a whole, which in turn would provide constructive facts that anet would be able to use. I do agree that things do tend to sound a lot better on paper but anet should encourage more active thinking while actually playing the profession to simulate ideas rather than looking at statistics. Like when Jon Peters was caught in sPvP running 5 signet warrior

Veritas.6071:

Stein, I know you said you are looking more for perspectives than ideas, but I’ve been chatting with another warrior about this very issue, and I’d be glad to share what we’ve discussed with you.

Veritas that is perfectly fine with me. My only request is that you set some time aside and plan out your presentation so the discussion doesn’t last for 90hrs :P. When you are ready, go ahead and inbox/pm me and we’ll schedule a date and time.

XII.9401:

@ Veritas

If you don’t compare your class with the other classes then you will never get it fixed. Ppl should know what the other classes are capable of and what they are actually getting in comparison.

Literally everything we do can be done with another class much better.

Many of our single abilities are inferior to other classes.

Our shield vs. engy shield+toolkit

our evis vs. heart seeker

etc etc

We gave up a long time ago on fixing the class so now we want to be on equal footing at least to some of the other classes in their abilities.

I don’t disagree with comparing classes overall, only individual skills. Many of the other classes could look at one particular thing the warrior is capable of and complain theirs is weaker than ours, and they would be right, but like I said, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and, with equal skill, our whole tends to struggle more than some others. Sure, some skills need to be brought more in line with one another or changes need to be made elsewhere to compensate, but there is a lot more to it than isolating two skills and saying, “Okay, Eviscerate now has a 450 leap, no cooldown, and only uses one adrenaline bar at a time to compete with Heartseeker.” or “Okay, Rapid Fire needs to have it’s channel time shortened by 2 seconds to be on par with Volley.” As we can see, that kind of balance is a double edged sword.

I generally try to avoid direct skill comparisons as well, but the thief is a real peeve for me because of the initiative system allowing them to use any weapon skill multiple times, multiplying it’s potency due to the frequency of use.

But my post wasn’t exactly /about/ a direct skill comparison, it was about what the other classes give up or the danger they put themselves in, in exchange for achieving something (in my example this would be burst damage). Mesmer is my favorite pick when talking about this (burst combo consisting of skills entirely on weapons and 15s CD shatter, many many means to get out or invuln when things go wrong, ai damage that forces a lose/lose situation when you pick which target to go for) but I thought I’d shake things up a bit.

I totally agree with you that the warrior’s tools overall are not up to par with other classes. Recently, I started looking at our skill coefficients and attack speeds in relation to other classes, and I found our sustained damage on most weapons is not much, if any, better than our competition. That in itself is not a huge deal, but when you also take into account that our big damage typically requires some sort of CC setup along with the comparatively low number of options we have for mitigating or avoiding sustained damage, we end up with a class that isn’t terribly threatening in melee without pretty specialized builds, and if we bring a more well balanced build, we lose in one area or another which indirectly reduces the effectiveness of our other tools. If we give CC, our big damage(our advantage) becomes much harder to land. If we give up damage we reduce the threat of our presence. If we give up defense, we go down extremely easily. If we sacrifice condi removal, we risk being totally neutralized.

Other classes enjoy one or more of the following: higher sustained damage, higher healing, higher mobility, great options for disengaging, or tremendous damage mitigation and avoidance. But what do they sacrifice? Some of them don’t have the same capabilities at bursting, and most of them can’t CC as well, but none of them completely lose the ability to disengage or sustain.

Honestly, I’m fine with our burst being a little tricky to land and us having limited options to disengage, but if that is the hand we’re going to be dealt, we need the ability to, as J Sharp said, “stick in the pocket”. Right now, a warrior can’t compete as a bunker which leaves us to try filling different roles at dpsing or team support. As far as DPS, the ability for other classes to land those heavy hits and stay mobile in combat while maintaining escape options makes them extremely viable in a PvP environment. For team support, our CC is fantastic, but it’s just a small part of the game. I wouldn’t want warriors to be confined to that one specific role. We also bring some solid offensive support options, but they’ve been in place since release (although banners saw a change) and those support skills have not proven to be so profound that a competitive team felt the need to integrate us into their comp.

If we could just get that ability to stay in the pocket, I think we would be good. We don’t need to be Guardian status, but with our mobility, CC, and damage, if we could just get a little more love for staying on our feet, I could see the addition of warriors filling the role of putting pressure on key targets or forcing peels better than almost any other class.

Maybe op could change the thread name to be something more relevant to all this feedback in the thread not exclusively about the adrenaline rising podcast, which I can’t help but feel doesn’t interest many warriors despite how much interesting discussion takes place in it.

Did you guys happen to catch this change in the patch notes tied into Rampage"

“Seismic Leap: This skill has replaced Stomp. It is now a ground-targeted, 2-second AoE knockdown with a 600-unit range.”

It will likely still not see much play, but it seems to be a good testing point. It seems Mr. Peters is listening~

robocafaz.9017:

Did you guys happen to catch this change in the patch notes tied into Rampage"

“Seismic Leap: This skill has replaced Stomp. It is now a ground-targeted, 2-second AoE knockdown with a 600-unit range.”

It will likely still not see much play, but it seems to be a good testing point. It seems Mr. Peters is listening~

Needed to be a class mechanic spell, not something on Rampage.

Mobility is an important tool that every build is built around. That’s a reason why Build diversity lacks in areas.

Defektive.7283:

robocafaz.9017:

Did you guys happen to catch this change in the patch notes tied into Rampage"

“Seismic Leap: This skill has replaced Stomp. It is now a ground-targeted, 2-second AoE knockdown with a 600-unit range.”

It will likely still not see much play, but it seems to be a good testing point. It seems Mr. Peters is listening~

Needed to be a class mechanic spell, not something on Rampage.

Mobility is an important tool that every build is built around. That’s a reason why Build diversity lacks in areas.

To me, Rampage was always about holding a point; which was something we didn’t do much of. With the control no longer being about knocking people away and the added swiftness, I could see this being a great option for locking a target down, which can function in both offensive and defensive roles.

Having said that, boon stripping and stealing still worries me. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction, but with that 150 sec CD, I still don’t think it will be enough for me to drop SoR (more anti-boon anxiety), and the banner is such a game changer in team fights.

We can get lots of swiftness, control, and mobility from other sources. Plus, our new healing changes will help us stay on our feet better. So a non-Rampaging warrior can fill a very aggressive role quite well already. So, I think the question now becomes, where is that CD sweet spot that will allow this skill to reliably bring something to the table to such an extent that it can compete with SoR? I don’t think it really competes a whole lot with the banner because they fill such drastically different roles.