Guild Wars 2

Stop complaining. Before you take this as a troll thread, pull down your pants, and go crazy… hear me out.

This thread is primarily to educate the general warrior public and an attempt to start anew the warrior community as a whole. (Well… improve)

Also, please read this post in its entirety as it should be. If you take a single part and comment against that… well… you’re kind of missing the point. I’m not here to argue against you guys. I’m not a professional player. However, I am someone that does enjoy the game and hope that we can improve the warrior community as a whole and, as a result, improve our game play.

1. Warriors do suck in sPvP. We all know this.
The first thing I would like to say is that simply improving the warrior’s condition removal is not the answer. Someone put up a troll thread talking about warriors having too much % damage. While the thread is utterly useless, it is true that warriors have a great amount of % damage.
I think it’s safe to say that warriors also have, arguably, the strongest bursts and/or damage potential. Now… what does that mean?

It means that if you simply improve the warrior’s condition removal, the warrior will actually become the monstrosity that developers are afraid of. While the problem may seem very easy to handle on the surface, it is actually a much more complex and difficult to handle. What’s the answer? Boon hate? Reduce damage and increase condition removal? Who knows… But it is the job of the developers.

Yes, we can make suggestions… but, at the end of the day, the majority of us… well… almost all of us are neither qualified nor capable of doing so without messing up another aspect of the game. Are the developers any better? Only time will tell, but please refrain from making harsh criticism based on less than a year of game play and incite other warriors to do the same.

2. Life and alternatives.
I’m not saying this as a “get a life” insult; rather, I am saying that there are plenty other options to explore not only in the gaming world but in the “real world” as some people refer to it… although that never made sense to me.

If you are truly disgruntled with the situation that the Warrior is in… leave!
Don’t take it the wrong way. I’m saying to take a break. An extended sabbatical if necessary. When Guild Wars 1 came out… there was so much less content in the game. A lot of people on forums about how the game sucked and etc. etc. etc… but look what an amazing game GW1 turned out to be.
Fact is that GW2 has yet to reach a year of age… and in comparison to other games during their first year, GW2 is doing a great job.
As much as you hate the developers, give them that much credit. Be thankful for what we have and look forward to what comes, but don’t place expectations.

3. Trolling / Misinformation
We need to tone it down. I frequent all the forums and I can say that the Warrior (at least in my perspective) is in such a crap hole. I understand that our sPvP sucks and that our WvWvW is limited to certain roles, but that is not a reason to incite other players to troll and to do so yourself. We all lose tempers… we all make mistakes… but we also need to learn and move on. If you are really fed up with the way things are, take a break and come back in half a year or more. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Misinformation… now this has got to be my biggest grievance about the Warrior forums. If you have no played a particular style, please refrain from recommending it or arguing it as a solid build. The amount of theory crafting going on is awesome. The amount of theory crafting being passed off as in-game experience is destructive. There is no need to pretend, so just leave it out.

Also, there seems to be a lot of speculation about toughness and its effect on aggro. Please note that a lot of it has no factual base. The wiki lists 5 causes of aggro. One is rather ambiguous and there is no mention of these being the only source.
One of the reasons is listed as shield/toughness; however, in-game play suggests that many bosses tend to deviate from this list.
There are many assumptions and many of these can be correct; however, until we have more information, there is no certainty. Do not pass assumptions as facts. This is where a lot of problems start.

A final “misinformation” that I would like to address. Warriors state in sPvP is pitiful. This is definite. Warriors state in WvWvW is not. There have been an abundance of complaints about the Warriors condition in WvWvW.
Truth is that we are viable in WvWvW; however, we are limited. We lack the freedom of choosing builds that we would like to run. We are also limited in the fact that there are quite a few roles we can not fill. This does not mean we are not viable.

Final Words
Well, none for now, but I really hope that we can start to improve the warrior community. I’m not condemning complaining; however, there is a point where rwe need to stop. Yes, developers fail to meet our expectation quite often, but the answer is not trolling and affecting newer / other Warriors. Let’s work together to improve the Warrior community.

Nice post agree on many points except the condition removal. I don’t think helping warriors out in the condition removal part would turn warriors into op. Its really the movement condi’s like cripple, chill, immobilize that are kind of the problem. I can’t see something like endure pain having a added resistance to conditions being bad or OP its like balance stance you would have to know when to use it. I dont even see endure pain wiping current conditions as being op either. The cd is long and most condition classes or those that can apply the ones that hurt warrior the most usually spec condition duration or can reapply that condition again in the span of a single fight. A little help on dealing with conditions I just can’t see how it would make warriors OP at all.

I am looking from myself as a P/D thief perspective vs me on My warrior I can reapply bleeds, cripples with ease so I can’t see how it would make me not able to kill a warrior if I am running my thief as P/D bleed spec. Same with mesmers and confusion can reapply so easily.

about warrior condition removal

1) mending, healing skill . 2 conditions every 25 seconds
2) shake it off, stun breaker and condition removal 25 seconds shout, traited to 20
3) signet of stamina, remove all conditions okittensec CD. traited 36
4) all other shouts when using runes of the soldier on armor.
5) restorative strength trait . using heal skill removes – cripple, chill, immobilize and weakness (four conditions on one skill!)
6) mobile strikes- trait: movement skills break immobilize
7) warhorn skill 4 (untraited) curing chill, cripple and immobilize
when traited both skills 4 and 5 also convert one condition to boon.

I am not sure that warrior lack condition removals. we have it OK.

I am whole hearty agree that endure pain skill (and its substitute trait defy pain) is in bad state and it is one of the problems that warriors have.
it should also make the warrior immune to damaging conditions for the duration of this skill, as it is a 60sec CD with no option to trait it.

the second issue warriors have is that we have to overtrait everything.
want to use banners effectively? lol three traits
want to use shouts effectively? three traits (with inspiring shouts)
want to use shield? another two traits?
want to be efficient with axes? lol three traits

no wonder everybody go GS as it requires only one single trait to use it effectively.

It’s a problem with greatsword and how people learn in games. They pick up GS, use 100blades, it slices up most of the PvE content quickly because mobs are dumb. So the immediate reaction is to just build around that. Add in Bull’s Charge. Add in Frenzy so you drop things really really fast and it can’t get away. But then you’re stuck in a corner. It works on most things, so there’s reluctance to deal with the small subset where it doesn’t, and people become comfortable with it. In addition, there’s no easy way to expand out of it without breaking the build. So the reaction is to ask for devs to fix weaknesses of the build, not to try and find a new one or dramatically change the original. It’s very hard to un-learn reliance on a skill like 100blades after being in a bulls charge – frenzy – 100blades build for months.

Give it a few weeks and people will start to adapt.

Lalangamena.3694:

about warrior condition removal

1) mending, healing skill . 2 conditions every 25 seconds
2) shake it off, stun breaker and condition removal 25 seconds shout, traited to 20
3) signet of stamina, remove all conditions okittensec CD. traited 36
4) all other shouts when using runes of the soldier on armor.
5) restorative strength trait . using heal skill removes – cripple, chill, immobilize and weakness (four conditions on one skill!)
6) mobile strikes- trait: movement skills break immobilize
7) warhorn skill 4 (untraited) curing chill, cripple and immobilize
when traited both skills 4 and 5 also convert one condition to boon.

I am not sure that warrior lack condition removals. we have it OK.

I am whole hearty agree that endure pain skill (and its substitute trait defy pain) is in bad state and it is one of the problems that warriors have.
it should also make the warrior immune to damaging conditions for the duration of this skill, as it is a 60sec CD with no option to trait it.

the second issue warriors have is that we have to overtrait everything.
want to use banners effectively? lol three traits
want to use shouts effectively? three traits (with inspiring shouts)
want to use shield? another two traits?
want to be efficient with axes? lol three traits

no wonder everybody go GS as it requires only one single trait to use it effectively.

Uh… guessing you never played spvp much.

If you are running signet of stamina and shouts build, you will be unable to kill anything. Not even a pure glass cannon noob that doesn’t know how to dodge roll. Do not compared WvW pvp to anything in sPvP; WvW is pvp for dummies.

Conditions can be applied MUCH more frequently than they can be removed (this is true for all classes, even something like guardian that can easily remove conditions compared to a warrior) If you can’t put pressure on the enemy via DAMAGE, removing conditions doesn’t help: they will just reapply it way, way faster than the cd on your abilities to remove them.

Condition removal needs to be given via a passive that you can trait for. Something simple like “all burst skills remove a condition” or something would be a big step in the right direction (it would encourage burst usage as well)

There will always be a fine line when it comes to balancing melees vs ranged. Melees need to obtain an decent Time on Target to be effective against kiting. This is why warriors have problems: every class has EASY access to cripple, and alot of them have access to chill. Whats worse is its easy to layer these conditions with cover conditions making them harder to remove. Why do you think everyone in sPvP uses GS? its not cause of 100b. Its cause its the most mobile weapon (range snare and 3rd dodge are by far the most important skills the gs has) Its the only weapon that gives you a fighting chance to stay close to someone kiting you at range.

I agree OP.

The warrior community needs to stop being so angry and trust in the process. Constructive feedback free of trolling will be far more helpful to devs than troll posts.

The amount of reading you have to go through to find constructive feedback is staggering.

The goal should be to improve discussion and let the devs work on it, that’s what they are paid for.

I strictly play wvw because its a fun environment for my play style. I hope spvp gets some love eventually, but people are starting to sound desperate and needy. Act like a warrior and suck it up princesses.

Trusting in a process means nothing ever gets accomplished because the problems aren’t adequately voiced, unique ways of handling issues aren’t found, and things never change.

I certainly understand where the OP is coming from, and I certainly find hyper critical (crying) unproductive, but harsh criticism is often times the most valuable.

Atherakhia.4086:

Trusting in a process means nothing ever gets accomplished because the problems aren’t adequately voiced, unique ways of handling issues aren’t found, and things never change.

I certainly understand where the OP is coming from, and I certainly find hyper critical (crying) unproductive, but harsh criticism is often times the most valuable.

To each their own of course. But when new players come to the warrior forums, instead of finding anything helpful, they find crying, complaining, misinformation and trolling.

Not the healthiest way to bring about change. Try this behaviour in a professional environment and see how far you can advance in a company.

(Fyi Atherakhia, the second part of this post isn’t directed to you, just speaking to the general public.)

I agree with a lot of this post, but i really cant see the warrior community changing any time soon, pvp players get too much of a hammering when it comes to playing a warrior, i can only see this community changing once they fix warriors in spvp/wvw, i dont even know how they will do this myself but surely the dev team can come up with something to balance us out?
now i wouldn’t call op on other professions, i just think warriors at the moment, are too weak and unprepared for wvw, the lack of healing abilities and condition removal puts us back to the survivability skills of a guardian, being able to block attacks, heal using GS skills, and having sustainability a lot of the time, fair enough warriors can pack a punch against a player with no toughness, but what use is this if we can’t last ourselves in a fight against different opponents?

I just desperately want some confirmation that warriors will be made even, and not just get banner buffs that mean nothing to us spvp/wvw players. Once this happens the community will be normal.

check out the forums for other professions for example, classes such as the elementalist, you dont see players complaining about that profession, simply because they have nothing to complain about? the profession is solid and a lot of the people who play it don’t regret levelling up that profession. That then leads to me the reasons why i get annoyed with this class, the fact that i couldn’t see this class sucked at spvp made me want to be one, so i spent time and effort levelling it for what? the weakest profession in spvp/wvw.

There is one awesome fact about playing a warrior, when you beat an “OP” class because they are used to having it too easy.

My main gripe with warrior is there is no viable build, and you have to go certain specs/styles to be sub optimal to other classes that have the SAME functionality untraited, untalented etc. Other classes have awesome synergy between talents… ours just seem like a mishmash and not thought out well at all.

GW2 was sold on me as it was “bring the player not the class”, but that’s not really true at the moment.

I don’t want to be OP, just competitive. I don’t want a class to see me and think its a free kill, i’d like a challenge.

Recently.1043:

Do not compared WvW pvp to anything in sPvP; WvW is pvp for dummies.

lol? I’m sorry, but this is incredibly condescending. I’ve fought and enjoyed plenty of excellent single and group fights in WvW which utilize the same basic play mechanics as sPvP. I get the common mentality that anyone who doesn’t prefer your specific mode of play is obviously doing something “for dummies”, but kindly keep such arrogance to yourself. I actually agreed with a lot of what you said regarding warriors and conditions but WvW is just as viable competitively as sPvP if you fight int the correct setting.