Guild Wars 2

As you may know, tons and tons of people have complained out of their mind about the sustain you get from Signet of Healing. So I would just like to make some comparisons to other healing skills from other classes using healing per second and % of base HP healed. I have also taken into account cast times for a more accurate picture.

Firstly let us look at the Warrior.

Healing Surge: 190/210/263/316 HPS (corresponding to the stages) (1.03/1.14/1.43/1.72% HPS)
Healing Signet: 392 HPS (2.13% HPS)
Mending: 250 HPS (1.36% HPS)

Let us look at the often compared Ranger.

Heal As One: 306 HPS (2.03% HPS)
Troll Unguent: 329 HPS (2.18% HPS)
Healing Spring: 161 HPS (without regen) (1.06% HPS)

Let’s look at the Ele now

Ether Renewal: 270 HPS (2.5% HPS)
Glyph of Elemental Harmony: 186/230 HPS (Glyph CD) (1.72%/2.13% HPS)
Signet of Restoration: Hard to Quantify

Necromancer

Consume Conditions: 200/282/365 HPS (0/3/6 conditions) (1.09%/1.53%/1.99% HPS )
Summon Blood Fiend: Hard to Quantify
Well of Blood: 165/205 HPS (Well cooldowns) (0.9%/1.1% HPS)

Mesmer

Ether Feast: 265/295/326/356 HPS (0/1/2/3 clones) (1.75%/1.96%/2.16%/2.36% HPS)
Mirror: 241 HPS (1.6% HPS)
Mantra of Recovery: 330/761 HPS (with all mantra related traits) (2.19%/5.05% HPS)

Engineer

Elixir H: 214/265 HPS (1.41%/1.75% HPS)
Healing Turret: 421 HPS (rough approximation, with regen) (2.8% HPS)
Med Kit+Bandage Self: 456/576 HPS (packaged stimulants + 30% toolbelt recharge, approx) (3%/3.82% HPS)

Guardian

Healing Breeze: 154 HPS (1.42% HPS)
Shelter: 146 HPS (1.35% HPS)
Signet of Resolve: 199/247 HPS (Signet Mastery) (1.84%/2.29% HPS)

Thief

Hide in Shadows: 169 HPS (not including regen) (1.56% HPS)
Signet of Malice: Hard to Quantify
Withdraw: 290 HPS (2.68% HPS)

If you just want to look at base HPS gain, we can see that Engis, Mesmers, Warriors have the best and most consistent HPS gains (did not include Necro because it varies).

Ranger is not too far behind those three

Thieves, Eles and Necros I would categorize as having comparable HPS, with Guardian lagging behind considerably.

However, noticeably Guardians and Eles, though having worse HPS then most classes in terms of their utility heals, make it up with having lots of boon generation, regeneration and other miscellaneous heals. Necros do not have any other sources of reliable HP gain besides regen but they do have death shroud.

If you want to look at it as a total of the base HP, Engis clearly have it the best over everybody.

Thieves, Eles and Mesmers I would clump together

Ranger, Warrior, Guardian I would clump together

Necro gets the short end of the stick in terms of healing.

Based upon using a total of the base HP as a measure, Healing Signet is right where it should be. Just taking it at base value and withstanding any other sources of healing that the warrior and any other class may have, it might be a little bit high for a passive, although Engis can achieve great healing and Mesmers have comparable values. Warriors do have the high Base HP but is compensated with a lack of protection and inherent damage avoidance.

My opinion? Healing Signet MAY need to be toned down, but very slightly. It is only slightly overpowered. Bring down the HP regen to 350 and up the scaling to 7.5%. Engis have overpowered healing just based on utility heals. Necros might want to have some of the healing base values revisited and upped slightly, and Guardians might want to see their healing values upped slightly as well. Rest of the classes are fine.

Necros healing is lower because they are able to create “extra” bars of health. Even with the lowest healing in the game atm they can outlast most regeneration classes, also their large array of conditions gives them the ability to chunk down enemy health quite quick even when the first wave is removed not to mention they have access to poison something warriors don’t. I wouldn’t really touch signet of healing as same as troll’s unguent before the whole healing can be capped down via poison and burst damage will bring both down to their knees, specially healing signet as using it’s active heal leaves us with no passive every 15 sec if spec for faster signer recharge.

Eng. on the other hand via plain utilities and knock downs they can stand there forever, not only thanks to healing but thanks to their exaggerated amount of CC.

So in the end even if the math proves one thing, real time game play proves another. Signet of healing sustain us fairly well with higher heal than rangers and guardians who are in the same roaster, yet rangers have build in dodges and utilities with build in dodges as well as protection via dodging, guardians got access to Aegis via passive cool down, active cool downs and more importantly a large array of blinds and protection, both things the warrior lack. So again reducing warrior’s healing cannot be done without giving the warrior something to compensate for this.

Warrior heals doesn’t need to be on par with the other classes,we were in need of sustain heavily,and still do.The extra healing buff was and is necessary and should not be toned down whatsoever.Just for the fact that you want to UP necs ( the most OP class ingame atm,even survivability wise ) healing and guards healing is what’s making this post absolutely ridiculous to say the least,were finally being able to withstand some of the constant condi spamming,the healing buff doesn’t make us “immortal” we’ve just been granted some sustain wich we were in heavy need of.

killahmayne.9518:

My opinion? Healing Signet MAY need to be toned down, but very slightly. It is only slightly overpowered. Bring down the HP regen to 350 and up the scaling to 7.5%. Engis have overpowered healing just based on utility heals. Necros might want to have some of the healing base values revisited and upped slightly, and Guardians might want to see their healing values upped slightly as well. Rest of the classes are fine.

well, the problem I have with healing signet, is not work will that runes and traits that needs “Healing skill activation” since the healing is passive. So, it limits your build.

Warrior

Healing Signet 392 HPS
Adrenal Health 120 HPS
Shout Heals (assuming 3 shout heals on 20% CD) 167 HPS
Dogged March 39 HPS (30% regen uptime)

718 Regen per sec (and this is being really generous because adrenaline isn’t usually kept) (3.9% HPS)

However in actuality, shout heal warriors only take two shouts to make room for balanced stance/zerker stance/endure pain. 90% of warriors never stay full HP. Adrenal Health on average would probably heal around 60 HPS. A warrior shout build would see around 610 HPS. However most builds are not shout builds at all so on average you would see a warrior heal around 490 HPS.

Ranger

Troll Unguent 329 HPS
Signet of the Wild 62 HPS
Spirit of Nature 120 HPS (25% uptime)
Harmonic Cry 81 HPS
Oakheart Salve/Nature’s Bounty/Rejuvination 72 HPS

664 HPS (4.4% HPS)

Many rangers take most of these skills, except perhaps the moa which would put them at 582 HPS. However, if the Spirit is up, a Ranger’s healing skyrockets way above the warrior, when it is down, it becomes noticeably less than the warrior.

So lets assume most rangers do not use the spirit and the moa pet, a typical ranger would then have around 462 HPS which is comparable to the warrior.

However, many rangers go the healing power route because they benefit very much from it, definitely alot more than warriors do, and boost their sources of regen. Rangers certainly do more damage than warriors if both go Healing Power.

Theoretically, a Warrior can achieve higher HPS but in actuality, it is the ranger who has better sustain. When you take base HP into account, Rangers are clearly superior in terms of how long it takes them to get to full health. Rangers also have great access to protection and a ton of evades on the sword, something a warrior does not have.

Guardian

Signet of Resolve 247 HPS
Virtue of Resolve 84 HPS
Meditation Utilites/Traits 272 HPS
Selfless Daring 30 HPS
Shield of Absorption 39 HPS
Empower 81 HPS
Pure of Heart 24 HPS

781 HPS

And this does not include symbol healing/ regen, tome of courage, vigor with the dodge, mace healing etc.

The thing about healing signet is that it has no cast time meaning it will never be interrupted and you don’t waste time running around with your hands in the air.

Turbo Whale.1738:

The thing about healing signet is that it has no cast time meaning it will never be interrupted and you don’t waste time running around with your hands in the air.

Thanks for posting, because you actually stated both the weakness and strength of Healing Signet.

The fact that you don’t cast it makes it incredibly weak to poison. So the warrior needs to be able to reliably cleanse it, or his healing goes down the drain.

Also, it is susceptible to burst.

Healing Signet is fine.

Remove all of the opinions ,and then have a look at what your post looks like with just the numbers. That’s what we are all interested in anyway.

Warrior.
Healing Surge: 190/210/263/316 HPS (corresponding to the stages) (1.03/1.14/1.43/1.72% HPS)
Healing Signet: 392 HPS (2.13% HPS)
Mending: 250 HPS (1.36% HPS)
Ranger.
Heal As One: 306 HPS (2.03% HPS)
Troll Unguent: 329 HPS (2.18% HPS)
Healing Spring: 161 HPS (without regen) (1.06% HPS)
Let’s look at the Ele now
Ether Renewal: 270 HPS (2.5% HPS)
Glyph of Elemental Harmony: 186/230 HPS (Glyph CD) (1.72%/2.13% HPS)
Signet of Restoration: Hard to Quantify
Necromancer
Consume Conditions: 200/282/365 HPS (0/3/6 conditions) (1.09%/1.53%/1.99% HPS )
Summon Blood Fiend: Hard to Quantify
Well of Blood: 165/205 HPS (Well cooldowns) (0.9%/1.1% HPS)
Mesmer
Ether Feast: 265/295/326/356 HPS (0/1/2/3 clones) (1.75%/1.96%/2.16%/2.36% HPS)
Mirror: 241 HPS (1.6% HPS)
Mantra of Recovery: 330/761 HPS (with all mantra related traits) (2.19%/5.05% HPS)
Engineer
Elixir H: 214/265 HPS (1.41%/1.75% HPS)
Healing Turret: 421 HPS (rough approximation, with regen) (2.8% HPS)
Med Kit+Bandage Self: 456/576 HPS (packaged stimulants + 30% toolbelt recharge, approx) (3%/3.82% HPS)
Guardian
Healing Breeze: 154 HPS (1.42% HPS)
Shelter: 146 HPS (1.35% HPS)
Signet of Resolve: 199/247 HPS (Signet Mastery) (1.84%/2.29% HPS)
Thief
Hide in Shadows: 169 HPS (not including regen) (1.56% HPS)
Signet of Malice: Hard to Quantify
Withdraw: 290 HPS (2.68% HPS)

Those numbers tell you all you need to know. When you have a class that is the highest tier base hp, armor, passive regen then you have a problem. Now if they changed it so that healing signet healed for half the current amount, but say putting 25 into tactics would double it then yeah. They could reduce the passive to around 250 health per second, but increase the scaling to 30%. Plenty of ways they could fix it so that the warrior has to make a sacrifice to get the huge amounts of passive healing they do now.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Those numbers tell you all you need to know. When you have a class that is the highest tier base hp, armor, passive regen then you have a problem. Now if they changed it so that healing signet healed for half the current amount, but say putting 25 into tactics would double it then yeah. They could reduce the passive to around 250 health per second, but increase the scaling to 30%. Plenty of ways they could fix it so that the warrior has to make a sacrifice to get the huge amounts of passive healing they do now.

You say make it so that 25 points in tactics give you the current healing. Anybody who does that will aim for max regen, just like they are now (shouts), so that won’t change anything for those builds. You’d just be nerfing every other warrior.

What you fail to mention is that we are the class without evading weapon skills, stealth, minions/clones/elementals/pets/spirits/spirit weapons/turrets, perma vigor with little investment, teleports, second health bars, aegis, protection, you know, active sustain?

Warriors need to take the most hits of all classes, therefore we need to be bulkiest. We were the class with zero sustain, don’t throw us back into that position.

bro half of those u mention are useless nobody use it …. it just means u really dont know how other classes play at all.

nobody use minions, spirit weap, turret …

warrior healing is extremely powerful actually, if u spec to it.
it will cut out a lot of dmg but that goes for every class if u wanna survive longer …

one more… 3 of these heals are really good. i mean some class u just have only 1 choice to choose lol.

Heal Signet is great if you’re fighting someone with no burst ability whatsoever, which is… uh… Well, I haven’t met them yet, but the point is burst damage eliminates the threat of tick healing even if its for 450/sec. Anyone wanting to utilize it has to trait, spec, and pick weapons that give them breather frames, like shield block or endure pain, and that’s a whole what, 7 total seconds in a 30 second span? Everything else comes down to timing.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Remove all of the opinions ,and then have a look at what your post looks like with just the numbers. That’s what we are all interested in anyway.

Warrior.
Healing Surge: 190/210/263/316 HPS (corresponding to the stages) (1.03/1.14/1.43/1.72% HPS)
Healing Signet: 392 HPS (2.13% HPS)
Mending: 250 HPS (1.36% HPS)
Ranger.
Heal As One: 306 HPS (2.03% HPS)
Troll Unguent: 329 HPS (2.18% HPS)
Healing Spring: 161 HPS (without regen) (1.06% HPS)
Let’s look at the Ele now
Ether Renewal: 270 HPS (2.5% HPS)
Glyph of Elemental Harmony: 186/230 HPS (Glyph CD) (1.72%/2.13% HPS)
Signet of Restoration: Hard to Quantify
Necromancer
Consume Conditions: 200/282/365 HPS (0/3/6 conditions) (1.09%/1.53%/1.99% HPS )
Summon Blood Fiend: Hard to Quantify
Well of Blood: 165/205 HPS (Well cooldowns) (0.9%/1.1% HPS)
Mesmer
Ether Feast: 265/295/326/356 HPS (0/1/2/3 clones) (1.75%/1.96%/2.16%/2.36% HPS)
Mirror: 241 HPS (1.6% HPS)
Mantra of Recovery: 330/761 HPS (with all mantra related traits) (2.19%/5.05% HPS)
Engineer
Elixir H: 214/265 HPS (1.41%/1.75% HPS)
Healing Turret: 421 HPS (rough approximation, with regen) (2.8% HPS)
Med Kit+Bandage Self: 456/576 HPS (packaged stimulants + 30% toolbelt recharge, approx) (3%/3.82% HPS)
Guardian
Healing Breeze: 154 HPS (1.42% HPS)
Shelter: 146 HPS (1.35% HPS)
Signet of Resolve: 199/247 HPS (Signet Mastery) (1.84%/2.29% HPS)
Thief
Hide in Shadows: 169 HPS (not including regen) (1.56% HPS)
Signet of Malice: Hard to Quantify
Withdraw: 290 HPS (2.68% HPS)

Those numbers tell you all you need to know. When you have a class that is the highest tier base hp, armor, passive regen then you have a problem. Now if they changed it so that healing signet healed for half the current amount, but say putting 25 into tactics would double it then yeah. They could reduce the passive to around 250 health per second, but increase the scaling to 30%. Plenty of ways they could fix it so that the warrior has to make a sacrifice to get the huge amounts of passive healing they do now.

I posted numbers to give people an idea where the healing signet stands amongst other sources of healing from other classes. Obviously when looking at this numbers you also have to take into consideration the class as a whole and their other sources of healing/damage mitigation. When considering that, Healing Signet isn’t really far off at all from being in the right place.

Healing Signet already heals for a crap base amount if you look at it. 8-9 seconds and the regen has already surpassed it and it has a 20 second CD. Reducing it to 250 and increasing the scaling to 30% would still see people complaining and doesn’t really change anything. People go 20 into Defense anyway so Healing Signet would go up to 310 HPS. Add one piece of healing gear and you are pretty much where we started. Only difference is people will stop using Healing Signet and realize that Healing Surge is also a great healing skill and we still will have miscreants saying (OMG 10K Heal OP). Even with HS akittens current state some prefer to use Healing Surge, as someone pointed out before, protects better against burst.

People will still find a way to complain about HS until it is nerfed to the ground, because if you increasing its scaling, Rangers are going to say well how come Warriors scale off healing power better than we do and omg we can’t kill them because they heal 600 HPS our heals don’t even do that.

Warriors are in a stage where CC is their defined role. Despite having highest base armor and HP, they previously had zero sustain to go with it, they have no protection, teleports, stealth or cheesy abilities to avoid damage. Just 2-3 invulnerabilities that is it. Warriors are a melee class for the most part, so it kind of makes sense that they need to have the option for more sustain, more so than classes who are typically ranged to survive melee combat. It is always going to be a seesaw balance between melee and ranged.

Punny.9210:

bro half of those u mention are useless nobody use it …. it just means u really dont know how other classes play at all.

nobody use minions, spirit weap, turret …

warrior healing is extremely powerful actually, if u spec to it.
it will cut out a lot of dmg but that goes for every class if u wanna survive longer …

one more… 3 of these heals are really good. i mean some class u just have only 1 choice to choose lol.

Regardless if people use it or not it doesn’t matter, it is just there to illustrate a point which I think you failed miserably to see.

And last time I checked, minion builds, turret heals and spirits are used in PvP actually quite alot, but of course you wouldn’t know.

Turbo Whale.1738:

The thing about healing signet is that it has no cast time meaning it will never be interrupted and you don’t waste time running around with your hands in the air.

And when used “which is a garbage heal” you loose the passive for 15 secs if spec. Wheee such an op trade off!!!"