Guild Wars 2

im about 2 days late to this but so what this is just outrageous! you call this balance anet? when i read through that page all i saw was “reduce casting this, reduce casting that, increase this, increase that” i only saw about 2 little negative things to other profession. yet on our last patch our adrenaline was a massive hit on us warriors and thank whoever we got an improvement on arcing slice but with a big sacrifice.

on this patch however theyre just going to fix our rush skill and thank whoever who made that finally happen but theres other things that need to be fix such as bulls charge and that little lag on earhshaker. this is just fixing our skills but still does not make up for the reduction of casting the other professions are going to get.

“this is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine…”
our rifle sucks! sure we are warriors and sure theres no need for a rifle but oh well we got one and its in the game might as well make the best of it. i was expecting a big reduction on kill shot because it is our burst skill. so anet please look up the definition of burst and then get back to us. no comment for brutal shot just fix something else instead.

last thing to cover arcing slice. its nice! however with all the so call balance changes ahead of us. this update might just put us at the bottom of the game in pvp and wvw. if you use a rifle then great you just got 2 improvements if you dont then oh well. for most of the warriors out there we appreciate our greatsword but this is not a game changer for us. we will remain where we are and even worst as over profession are actually getting good updates.

has anyone forgotten about our stances? how about we get some of those reduction casting of them. write your thoughts if i am right or wrong or speak up for yourself and others.

Didn’t knew stances had cast times (they don’t). Aside from that, yeah we didn’t get anything fancy, about time someone fixed our rush. Sure we need plenty more fixes and sure the other classes seem to get fancier stuff, but in the end I’ll still win most of my duels thanks to this tiny fix of the rush and the burst damage increase (they only state 10%, so… 20% since it does double damage when the target is below 50% health? I’ll take that as a double win then.)

Overall they really mostly have adjusted some animation speeds of casting animations (for attacks that have tells on them anyway or have a delayed activation etc etc).

It’s a small change and if they keep putting out more of these that would really help all the classes out (as long as they nerf stuff too because buffing everything isn’t the way to go ofc)

Anyway, doubt this will impact gameplay much they are all just shaves in my opinion. But I’ll let you know after I test it out myself.

Don’t forget earthshaker still can’t hit a target below your current position.

If they nerf warrior enough, I might be forced to use another go-to class in WvW.

On my necro i can facetank full duration of hundred blades not even enough to get it out of death shroud left with 30-40% life force is just redicilous. Warriors just need a buff to hundred blades and whirling axe +50% buff would be a start.
Risk vs reward is not taken into consideration on warrior so much telegraphed skills.

tom.7468:

. Warriors just need a buff to hundred blades and whirling axe +50% buff would be a start.

My main is a warrior and even I find that ridiculous.

right now, Warriors are just about bearable. They dont need a ridiculous damage buff, they just need a small rework for Berserker’s power and an adrenaline rework so that fight resets don’t leave them defenseless.

And healing alternatives that don’t suck.

DontJudgeMe.3958:

Didn’t knew stances had cast times (they don’t).

The defiant stance (healing skill) is the only stance with a cast time.

You buff WA by 50%, that’s ridiculous. It would make WA more powerful than HB and mobile on top of it, not to mention it’s a whirl finisher. If you trait for axes, the CD is the same as HB. If anything axe 4 needs a rework to make it more viable.

I would rather see adrenaline falloff happen after a longer amount of time has passed. It’s far too easy for a thief to reset the fight and then jump you while you have zero adrenaline without having to recast any stealth — all they need is a single SR.

Im gonna go ahead and say that you really have nothing to complain about. Warriors have a variety of viable weapons, including sword, axe, greatsword, longbow, hammer, and shield, as well as a variety of build types that work very well. The changes to adrenaline actually make sense- it should be a combat based mechanic and now it is strictly bound to combat. I imagine it was intended to reduce our dependance on the maintenance of full adrenaline for a 15% damage boost in pve and force us to branch out a little bit. You should be grateful of the fact that they actually made rifle potentially more useful in both pvp and pve with the burst cast time reduction and burst shot cast time reduction (takes less time away from skills that give dps). If you want to look at underwhelming balance changes, I suggest you take a gander at the necro changes, which the best of us are trying to take with a sense of humor.

Might nerf hits warrior the second most of any class, which results in a pretty large nerf. 200power and condition dmg loss for might stacking build is huge.

Rifle will still suck, so nothing changed on that front.

1.25second activation burst time activation is still ridiculously long and ridiculously easy to dodge…And it won’t compare to LB in pve or pvp. Especially not pvp.
It will still serve the same purpose as before. A troll zerk rifle build for wvw.

Fixing rush is something they should have done so very long ago considering it was borderline unusable.

Arcing slice is terrible and a 10% increase in damage won’t change that fact. They originally lied about the skill saying it will do 100% more damage to foes under 50% health, and with the buff it’s still far weaker than what was promised.

So yeah, I don’t really think necro balance change is any worse than warriors. They buffed the stuff that remain weak, and nerfed the best of warrior builds.

Whirling axe indeed needs a buff, a little one in dmg like 25% and projectile absrob or maybe protection for the duration. Right now it deals vs 5 targets less damage than the axe aa vs 3. Also 100b deals less damage than axe aa. Overall either buff 100b final hit by 10-20% or simply reduce the ridiculously high dps of the axe aa.

A couple things- I would say that ele and engi are both effected by the might nerf more than warrior. I would also argue that the might nerf was not specifically pvp based and was more targeted at the dominance of might stacking in pve, thus equally effecting everybody. Furthermore, youre only losing 125 power/condi damage with max might stacks (5 × 25 = 125)

Saying that the rifle will still suck is being a little close minded imo. There is some potential here to work with. Lower activation times of skills means that the rifle can now potentially be used as a burst damage weapon, quickly using rapid fire, burst shot, and kill shot, and then swapping back to a sustained dps set. A lower burst skill activation time also gives it potential to be used in combination with hard cc that we also have access to, especially if we decide to utilize the quickness that we have easy access to. Im not saying that its the new go to weapon- but it definitely has more potential than it used to.

I also am not sure how you can still judge arcing slice as being so terrible. It definately can be used as part of a dps rotation on greatsword, being used while 100b is on cd and in between aa chains. Oh and you can use it while moving, has a 360 degree hit box and provides more fury, allowing for some utility bar/ traiting freedom as far as fury is concerned and potentially contributing to your overall dps.

Necro changes are worse because of the skills they altered- reducing the cast time of a wh swiftness skill and calling it a mobility increase is very tongue in cheek at best. Corrosive poison cloud is a neat skill, but given necro’s current skill bar priorities, and the fact that it already causes the two effects you would have gotten had you used any combo finishers in it’s field, its a very underwhelming and redundant skill. And buffing signets on necro is next to useless because we dont actually benefit from signets while in DS, and for the most part they promote poor gameplay (signet of locust).

So yeah, I think the necro balance change is much more irrelevant than warriors. They made an underwhelming weapon have some more potential, raised gs dps, and promoted build variability across all classes by nerfing an overpowered boon. (note the only viable necro power builds use Blood is Power, and the DS builds get might on Life Blast use. So yeah they nerfed the best of necro builds too).

Xyonon.3987:

Whirling axe indeed needs a buff, a little one in dmg like 25% and projectile absrob or maybe protection for the duration. Right now it deals vs 5 targets less damage than the axe aa vs 3. Also 100b deals less damage than axe aa. Overall either buff 100b final hit by 10-20% or simply reduce the ridiculously high dps of the axe aa.

Or remove this junk hb completely as its a waste of skill space. This skill has no place in this game. I rathen use something similiar to maul with old arcing slide animation which would offer a “burst” dmg similiar to rush and buffed aa.

I dont like bladetrail either (slow boomerang that you can avoid just by strafing) . Im curious what they have did to rush anyway. In case of arcing slide they dindt wanted to overbuff it, today 50, tomorrow 60, next time it might be even 80 or 100.

As for rifle, nothing will change. Lower casttime would work if killshot was unblockable and pierce thought protection cause honestly – ppl can facetank it nowdays even if youre full zerk. On top of that youre open to attacks, cc’s and such thanks to selfroot. Everything else on rifle is still meh. No pressure, no utility, no way to kite.

Ranger lb got it right – strong aa at max range, long range mobile hb, 2 tools to kite (point blank is something that rifle needs instead of this crappy rifle butt). I see rifle as a weapon that should force ppl to come close to us otherwise it should be punishing to anyone willing to kite us over the place. Maybe one day it get there and reach level of harpoon gun.

tboneking.2531:

A couple things- I would say that ele and engi are both effected by the might nerf more than warrior. I would also argue that the might nerf was not specifically pvp based and was more targeted at the dominance of might stacking in pve, thus equally effecting everybody. Furthermore, youre only losing 125 power/condi damage with max might stacks (5 × 25 = 125)

Ele, yes. Engineer, no. Engineer only uses sigil of battle to stack might, while warrior uses blast finishers. An engineer can maybe hit 10-12 stacks of might on their own, while a warrior can nearly reach max stacks.

You forget the fact that sigil of battle was nerfed as well, and without it, they’re not reaching 25 might stacks on their own. True numbers are 5×25 + 75 = 200.

Saying that the rifle will still suck is being a little close minded imo. There is some potential here to work with. Lower activation times of skills means that the rifle can now potentially be used as a burst damage weapon, quickly using rapid fire, burst shot, and kill shot, and then swapping back to a sustained dps set. A lower burst skill activation time also gives it potential to be used in combination with hard cc that we also have access to, especially if we decide to utilize the quickness that we have easy access to. Im not saying that its the new go to weapon- but it definitely has more potential than it used to.

It remains inferior damage in pve, and it will never hit anyone good in pvp. Backbreaker is the only CC we have that lasts long enough to pull off a rifle burst with and that skill is hard enough to land as it is. Bulls charge is almost as bad as rush when it comes to overshooting the target and it’s a waste of a skill slot either way…Especially if you want to waste another slot with frenzy.

It’s not so much as being close-minded, as realizing that rifle is a terrible weapon. It’s slow, the damage is mediocre at best, and it lacks any real utility. Meanwhile, LB has a fire field, a nice disable, and arcing arrow that works really well when paired with hammer or the SB immobilze.
You’re just gimping yourself by using it. I look at rifle, and then I look at ranger or warrior LB and I just shake my head.

I also am not sure how you can still judge arcing slice as being so terrible. It definately can be used as part of a dps rotation on greatsword, being used while 100b is on cd and in between aa chains. Oh and you can use it while moving, has a 360 degree hit box and provides more fury, allowing for some utility bar/ traiting freedom as far as fury is concerned and potentially contributing to your overall dps.

Because everytime you use arcing slice you lose a permanent 15% damage bonus while your adrenaline remains full. Warriors can retain a near permanent fury uptime without arcing slice when soloing, it’s guaranteed to be permanent while with a group. And the two utility skills that provide fury are FGJ and SoR-Both of which are staple for every dungeon DPS warrior build. SoR because it’s the only elite that provides warrior with more damage, and FGJ for obvious reasons.

So yeah, I think the necro balance change is much more irrelevant than warriors. They made an underwhelming weapon have some more potential, raised gs dps, and promoted build variability across all classes by nerfing an overpowered boon. (note the only viable necro power builds use Blood is Power, and the DS builds get might on Life Blast use. So yeah they nerfed the best of necro builds too).

I don’t consider warrior changes to be irrelevant. Nerfs never are.

None of the warrior changes will change anything. The best builds will still be the best builds. They will just do less damage than before.
You think necro changes are useless, I think warrior changes are useless. With the added factor of them receiving an indirect nerf.

You know what, I agree with the points youve made. I just re examined the rifle skills, and Volley probably deals less damage than maintaining an axe aa chain, especially when traited. And theres no doubt that the burst is harder to land, I was just thinking it might be a little easier now.

You forget the fact that sigil of battle was nerfed as well, and without it, they’re not reaching 25 might stacks on their own. True numbers are 5×25 + 75 = 200.

Quick question: wheres that 75 coming from? Max stacks of might is 25, and if you take 5 power away from each stack that leaves you with 125 total… right?

And to be fair, despite the fact that the might nerf may hurt warriors eles and engis more than others, Im still wholeheartedly in support of the change: might has been op for a long time IMO

tboneking.2531:

Quick question: wheres that 75 coming from? Max stacks of might is 25, and if you take 5 power away from each stack that leaves you with 125 total… right?

because of sigil of battle nerf, you lose three stacks of might = 75might. realistically, warrior is usually going to make it to 20stacks of might, not 25. So the real number is probably closer to 5×20 + 75 = 175

Kagamiku.9731:

tboneking.2531:

Quick question: wheres that 75 coming from? Max stacks of might is 25, and if you take 5 power away from each stack that leaves you with 125 total… right?

because of sigil of battle nerf, you lose three stacks of might = 75might. realistically, warrior is usually going to make it to 20stacks of might, not 25. So the real number is probably closer to 5×20 + 75 = 175

That calculation still looks wrong. The Sigil of battle is there to stack might, not part of the calculation for power lost.

Current might bonus: 20 Might = 20×35 = +700
Sigil of Battle (3 might stacks) = 3×35 = +105
Weapons swaps needed: x6.66*

Post balance bonus: 20 Might = 20×30 = +600
Sigil of Battle (2 might stacks) = 2×30 = +60
Weapon swaps needed: x10

Difference @20 stacks: 700-600 = 100 power/condi lost

So it’s a rather big nerf to Sigil of Battle since players can’t be as reliant on the Sigil to stack might. However if a class can still effectively stack might through blast finishers or buffs, they ain’t losing as much.

with any luck anet will unveil a new soldier profession and everyone can just quit playing warriors since anet is so content on throwing them under the bus.

Akikaze.1307:

Kagamiku.9731:

tboneking.2531:

Quick question: wheres that 75 coming from? Max stacks of might is 25, and if you take 5 power away from each stack that leaves you with 125 total… right?

because of sigil of battle nerf, you lose three stacks of might = 75might. realistically, warrior is usually going to make it to 20stacks of might, not 25. So the real number is probably closer to 5×20 + 75 = 175

That calculation still looks wrong. The Sigil of battle is there to stack might, not part of the calculation for power lost.

Current might bonus: 20 Might = 20×35 = +700
Sigil of Battle (3 might stacks) = 3×35 = +105
Weapons swaps needed: x6.66*

Post balance bonus: 20 Might = 20×30 = +600
Sigil of Battle (2 might stacks) = 2×30 = +60
Weapon swaps needed: x10

Difference @20 stacks: 700-600 = 100 power/condi lost

So it’s a rather big nerf to Sigil of Battle since players can’t be as reliant on the Sigil to stack might. However if a class can still effectively stack might through blast finishers or buffs, they ain’t losing as much.

The class can’t really hit 25might stacks on their own, even with pre-nerf sigil of battle, so you have to factor in the three might stacks lost from sigil of battle into the equation.

If pre-nerf, sigil could reach 20+ stacks with sigil of battle, and post nerf they can only reach 17+ stacks, then it’s effectively a 35 × 3 = 105 power/cond loss. Though for some reason I was thinking one stack of might = 25 power, not 35, so my math was wrong there. Explains how I originally got 200 overall power/cond damage nerf and not 175.

20×5 + 35×3 = 205.

This is the end result if you’re soloing someone, it’s still easy to hit max stacks when you’re with a party, but sigil of battle nerf is a large hit to warrior might stacking in a solo environment.

Kagamiku.9731:

The class can’t really hit 25might stacks on their own, even with pre-nerf sigil of battle, so you have to factor in the three might stacks lost from sigil of battle into the equation.

If pre-nerf, sigil could reach 20+ stacks with sigil of battle, and post nerf they can only reach 17+ stacks, then it’s effectively a 35 × 3 = 105 power/cond loss. Though for some reason I was thinking one stack of might = 25 power, not 35, so my math was wrong there. Explains how I originally got 200 overall power/cond damage nerf and not 175.

20×5 + 35×3 = 205.

This is the end result if you’re soloing someone, it’s still easy to hit max stacks when you’re with a party, but sigil of battle nerf is a large hit to warrior might stacking in a solo environment.

You don’t lose 3 stacks of might from Sigil of Battle (unless you use another Sigil due to the nerf). You lose 1 stack of might, since the change will be 3x -> 2×. Due to that, you’ll lose 45 power/condi stat (105 vs 60) per weapon swap.

If pre-patch you get X stacks, then post-patch, you can still get X stacks, just harder to actually get to X. For example, under current conditions to get to +210 would need 6 stacks of might or 2 sigil proc. Post update, to get to +210 would need 7 stacks of might or 4 (rounded up from 3.5) sigil proc.

However you’re right, in solo situations, it’ll be harder to get might stacks and more group orientated. Whereas now, you’ll get it just by weapon swapping, which in my opinion was a bit too easy.

Edit: Minor division error…

Akikaze.1307:

You don’t lose 3 stacks of might from Sigil of Battle (unless you use another Sigil due to the nerf). You lose 1 stack of might, since the change will be 3x -> 2×. Due to that, you’ll lose 45 power/condi stat (105 vs 60) per weapon swap.

Losing 3 stacks of might comes from the 9s cooldown of the sigil with its 20s base duration, most people using it would be running Strength (or Hoelbrak) runes to increase might duration by about 50%. This would let you max out at 9 stacks from 3 swaps before your stacks started to wear off, three swaps will now/soon only give 6 stacks.

Serval.6458:

Akikaze.1307:

You don’t lose 3 stacks of might from Sigil of Battle (unless you use another Sigil due to the nerf). You lose 1 stack of might, since the change will be 3x -> 2×. Due to that, you’ll lose 45 power/condi stat (105 vs 60) per weapon swap.

Losing 3 stacks of might comes from the 9s cooldown of the sigil with its 20s base duration, most people using it would be running Strength (or Hoelbrak) runes to increase might duration by about 50%. This would let you max out at 9 stacks from 3 swaps before your stacks started to wear off, three swaps will now/soon only give 6 stacks.

Ah, thanks for pointing the duration out, forgot about that.

Kagamiku.9731:

Arcing slice is terrible and a 10% increase in damage won’t change that fact. They originally lied about the skill saying it will do 100% more damage to foes under 50% health, and with the buff it’s still far weaker than what was promised.

Arcing Slice is a great skill, and you should give it another look. The damage is independent of the number of adren stages you have, you can use it on the move, it still hits hard when targets are under 50%, it hits five targets all around you without as much telegraph as other high damage skills, and is an almost guaranteed condi clear with CI unless you’re out of melee or blinded.

Use whatever burst you like, gain addren from weapon swap and a couple hits from whatever you want, and then get another 5-8k on up to five targets without having to build up full addren? Please and thank you.

You’re not gaining another 5-8k on up to five targets, it takes the place of an auto attack.

Also, you’re losing the permanent 15% damage boost from Berserker’s Power.

Arcing slice is in-fact a DPS loss

I hope you’re not actually referring to PvP, as it’s even worse there. Who would use GS f1 for condition cleanse when LB f1 is better in every conceivable way? It’s a guaranteed condition cleanse that doesn’t even need to hit the target and it isn’t affected by blind.
You aren’t going to hit for 5-8k with it in pvp either unless you’re running full glass zerk build…And it’s painful to even think about trying to land GS f1 while running a build like that. The only reliable skill on GS in pvp is whirlwind attack.

Kagamiku.9731:

You’re not gaining another 5-8k on up to five targets, it takes the place of an auto attack.

Also, you’re losing the permanent 15% damage boost from Berserker’s Power.

Arcing slice is in-fact a DPS loss

---

I hope you’re not actually referring to PvP, as it’s even worse there. Who would use GS f1 for condition cleanse when LB f1 is better in every conceivable way? It’s a guaranteed condition cleanse that doesn’t even need to hit the target and it isn’t affected by blind.
You aren’t going to hit for 5-8k with it in pvp either unless you’re running full glass zerk build…And it’s painful to even think about trying to land GS f1 while running a build like that. The only reliable skill on GS in pvp is whirlwind attack.

I mostly play wvw, where GS has high utility when roaming, and there you are getting 5-8k against up to five targets. I run full zerk gear, but have 300 in the defense tree. My auto on GS runs from 1800-2500 per hit, maybe slightly higher.

But I’ve used AS in pvp arenas as well… it’s not the strongest set by any stretch, but it has the advantage that most players there aren’t used to it. I’ve also used full zerk to good effect in pvp, but unranked only.

And, again, you only need one stage of adren to get max damage out of the skill. It is most definitely not a DPS loss.

[quote=4724706;Choppy.4183:]

Choppy.4183:

I mostly play wvw, where GS has high utility when roaming, and there you are getting 5-8k against up to five targets. I run full zerk gear, but have 300 in the defense tree. My auto on GS runs from 1800-2500 per hit, maybe slightly higher.

Arcing slice has 1.2 coefficient on foes above 50% health and 1.8 on foes below 50%, while the GS auto has a .7 coefficient. So a GS auto will be a bit more than half damage or a bit less depending on the hp of foe.

And, again, you only need one stage of adren to get max damage out of the skill. It is most definitely not a DPS loss.

It is a DPS loss, in pve.
You wouldn’t use berserkers power in pvp, so it’s not a DPS loss there, but I don’t understand why anyone would use arcing slice over combustive shot.

Kagamiku.9731:

Arcing slice has 1.2 coefficient on foes above 50% health and 1.8 on foes below 50%, while the GS auto has a .7 coefficient. So a GS auto will be a bit more than half damage or a bit less depending on the hp of foe.

That’s 71% more damage when the foe is above 50%, and 157% when the target(s) are below 50% health. And that difference increases with crits and through things like Slashing Power, Sigil of Force, etc.

Kagamiku.9731:

It is a DPS loss, in pve.
You wouldn’t use berserkers power in pvp, so it’s nto a DPS loss there, but I don’t understand why anyone would use arcing slice over combustive shot.

If you’re using it at the first stage of adren, the loss from Berserker’s Power is 5%, not 15%, and only for the period of time it takes you to recoup your adren. If you don’t have perma-Fury, the gain from the 20% crit chance should more than offset that loss. And that assumes you’re using Berserker’s Power… if you aren’t, there’s no loss to AS, only gain.

Given the difference in damage (see above), you’re still better off using it than not, especially if you’ll catch more targets in your hit box than you can with your other skills.

The reason someone wouldn’t use Combustive Shot is because they aren’t packing a longbow. Sure, you’re more likely to have one in pvp due to the large field, but they’re considerably less useful (though still good) in wvw.

Choppy.4183:

If you’re using it at the first stage of adren, the loss from Berserker’s Power is 5%, not 15%, and only for the period of time it takes you to recoup your adren. If you don’t have perma-Fury, the gain from the 20% crit chance should more than offset that loss. And that assumes you’re using Berserker’s Power… if you aren’t, there’s no loss to AS, only gain.

How is it only a 5% DPS loss? It’s a full 15% DPS loss. You gain no bonus from berserkers power until you have a full bar of adrenaline. If you’re using the burst as soon as you have one bar of adrenaline then you effectively never gain any bonus from berserkers power. Well, you gain a couple seconds of 5% damage boost until you use the burst skill.

You have it backwards, if you only used arcing slice when you have all three bars of adrenaline, then you would receive some bonus from berserkers power. But since that would make arcing slice less spammable, that really isn’t any better.

In a pve environment, it’s better to not use arcing slice at all. The only exceptions is if you’re running a phalanx build that doesn’t trait for berserkers power, or arcing slice deals the finishing blow to w/e you’re fighting.

The reason someone wouldn’t use Combustive Shot is because they aren’t packing a longbow. Sure, you’re more likely to have one in pvp due to the large field, but they’re considerably less useful (though still good) in wvw.

It doesn’t really matter what weapon you pair with GS, the other weapon will have the better f1. If you’re running a skullcrack build then you need to land the f1 mace to land the hundred blade. If you’re running hammer, again, you’ll want to use the f1 stun to land a HB. Especially since back breaker is one of the most telegraphed attacks in existence.

Honestly, mace/hammer and LB are the only three weapons I can think of that can be paired with GS effectively. Sword/GS is just to troll and run from people, but it can’t actually kill anyone At least anyone even half competent. If you decided you wanted to pair GS with axe for some reason, axe still has the far better f1 skill.

Kagamiku.9731:

How is it only a 5% DPS loss? It’s a full 15% DPS loss. You gain no bonus from berserkers power until you have a full bar of adrenaline. If you’re using the burst as soon as you have one bar of adrenaline then you effectively never gain any bonus from berserkers power. Well, you gain a couple seconds of 5% damage boost until you use the burst skill.

I didn’t say you have to spam it, and what you’re talking about is a decision to use a burst at all vs keeping your adren. If you’re simply talking about AS or the auto with max BP, then you’re still better off with AS by the numbers.

With my current set, a rotation could have me using AS shortly after Earthshaker (ES->Fierce Blow->Backbreaker->Hundred Blades->AS->Whirwind), and AS is the only burst you can do that without losing DPS (i.e. without a full bar). If I’ve got my full rotation in, the target’s typically dead. I’m not spamming AS, rather I’m using it situationally and playing to its strengths. For example, if I’m in a big fight, I might not use AS in favour of getting ES up faster. But if my enemy/enemies are low and near me, I might use AS to put them down (I’ve literally downed four people at once with a well timed AS).

Kagamiku.9731:

You have it backwards, if you only used arcing slice when you have all three bars of adrenaline, then you would receive some bonus from berserkers power. But since that would make arcing slice less spammable, that really isn’t any better.

The gain from BP is less than the gain from AS over your auto attack. Maybe if you’re able to get a full Hundred Blades with +15% you’d be better off (I’ve not calculated it), but 3 x AS plus autos in between has more DPS than autos building up to, and eventually getting, +15% from BP. Especially so if your target is less than 50%, which is when you should be using AS unless you have a more situationally appropriate burst.

Kagamiku.9731:

It doesn’t really matter what weapon you pair with GS, the other weapon will have the better f1. If you’re running a skullcrack build then you need to land the f1 mace to land the hundred blade. If you’re running hammer, again, you’ll want to use the f1 stun to land a HB. Especially since back breaker is one of the most telegraphed attacks in existence.

You keep thinking in terms of a full bar and as an either/or proposition. As mentioned above, I’ll use Earthshaker , hit my rotation, and then AS well before I have a full bar. Skullcrack is the same thing – use it, Hundred Blades, AS, Whirlwind for crazy damage. Skullcrack isn’t even off CD before you’ve pulled that off.

Kagamiku.9731:

If you decided you wanted to pair GS with axe for some reason, axe still has the far better f1 skill.

With Burst Mastery, it’s Eviscerate -> AS (immediately) -> Whirlwind, assuming you don’t just want to stay on the axe auto. Really depends on the situation but, if you land those (including the attacks used to get to a full Eviscerate), your target’s in real trouble.

Choppy.4183:

I didn’t say you have to spam it, and what you’re talking about is a decision to use a burst at all vs keeping your adren. If you’re simply talking about AS or the auto with max BP, then you’re still better off with AS by the numbers.

If you’re referring to AS vs a single auto with BP, then yes. But how many auto’s do you think you will get in between using AS and having a full bar of adrenaline again? Not to mention the hundred blades and whirlwind damage bonus from BP.

With my current set, a rotation could have me using AS shortly after Earthshaker (ES->Fierce Blow->Backbreaker->Hundred Blades->AS->Whirwind), and AS is the only burst you can do that without losing DPS (i.e. without a full bar). If I’ve got my full rotation in, the target’s typically dead. I’m not spamming AS, rather I’m using it situationally and playing to its strengths.

Could be worth using on a foe below 50% health, but using an adrenaline bar on AS means less use of earth shaker.

You keep thinking in terms of a full bar and as an either/or proposition. As mentioned above, I’ll use Earthshaker , hit my rotation, and then AS well before I have a full bar. Skullcrack is the same thing – use it, Hundred Blades, AS, Whirlwind for crazy damage. Skullcrack isn’t even off CD before you’ve pulled that off.

Even if you use it as part of your rotation, how is AS still not a bad f1 skill? It’s only purpose is to stack fury, and fury is something warrior is not in a short supply of. It’s mediocre damage for a burst, and supplies no form of CC. The fact that it can hit 5 people instead of three is hardly meaningful considering it’s unlikely to even be hitting three people with it. It certainly wont happen while roaming in wvw.

With Burst Mastery, it’s Eviscerate -> AS (immediately) -> Whirlwind, assuming you don’t just want to stay on the axe auto. Really depends on the situation but, if you land those (including the attacks used to get to a full Eviscerate), your target’s in real trouble.

Using bolas? It’s the only way they’re going to stand still long enough to land both eviscerate and AS.

Kagamiku.9731:

If you’re referring to AS vs a single auto with BP, then yes. But how many auto’s do you think you will get in between using AS and having a full bar of adrenaline again? Not to mention the hundred blades and whirlwind damage bonus from BP.

Again, it’s a matter of playing to the situation. If your mob is almost dead by the time you’ve used hundred blades, built up your adren, etc, then you should use AS to put them down before you lose your adren anyway for being out of combat.

If you’re in a long boss fight, or have npcs streaming in, etc., then it’s probably better to hang on to your adren no matter which weapon you’re using, with the possible exception of longbow since CS will give you adren, you can add some might and burst with Arcing Shot, and npcs don’t know to step out of it.

Could be worth using on a foe below 50% health, but using an adrenaline bar on AS means less use of earth shaker.

I may have stealth edited you there because I added a note on how I’d decide between those very things. ES does less damage than AS, but has more utility in a fight that will carry on for a while longer, has more people in it (possibly not around you), or your rotation isn’t in CD. But it has a bigger telegraph, and AS can put down one or more enemies following your rotation, thereby taking them out of the fight. Just depends on what you’re up against.

Even if you use it as part of your rotation, how is AS still not a bad f1 skill? It’s only purpose is to stack fury, and fury is something warrior is not in a short supply of. It’s mediocre damage for a burst, and supplies no form of CC.

Excluding Kill Shot (because, well, you know), AS does the greatest single hit damage of any burst skill after Eviscerate, it hits up to five targets instead of just one, and it does it with one stage of adren. If your enemies are at low health, using that to potentially take them all out of the fight is likely the smart move.

Using bolas? It’s the only way they’re going to stand still long enough to land both eviscerate and AS.

The telegraph’s not so bad on AS, and I usually land it without trouble. If I were to run that set, I’d probably use Shield Bash->Eviscerate->AS. You don’t need a setup skill for AS, in part because of the lesser telegraph and also because the risk of missing is considerably less.

When I play Warrior I usually use Greatsword & Sword/Shield because I can, and it’s fun. Arcing Slice fits into my usual rotation, so I’m happy with the buff. I like that you can use it with only one bar of adrenalin, works well with burst mastery. Now a 10% damage buff would be a 20% damage buff on targets below 50% hp, right?

Of course I’ll only use it in hotjoin to not pull a team down in ranked tPvP.

Choppy.4183:

Again, it’s a matter of playing to the situation. If your mob is almost dead by the time you’ve used hundred blades, built up your adren, etc, then you should use AS to put them down before you lose your adren anyway for being out of combat.

I said earlier that was one of the only two reasons to use it in PvE.

I may have stealth edited you there because I added a note on how I’d decide between those very things. ES does less damage than AS, but has more utility in a fight that will carry on for a while longer, has more people in it (possibly not around you), or your rotation isn’t in CD. But it has a bigger telegraph, and AS can put down one or more enemies following your rotation, thereby taking them out of the fight. Just depends on what you’re up against.

If there is an opportune moment to use AS, then sure, it could be beneficial to your rotation. I’m only saying that the skill could be a lot better.

Excluding Kill Shot (because, well, you know), AS does the greatest single hit damage of any burst skill after Eviscerate, it hits up to five targets instead of just one, and it does it with one stage of adren. If your enemies are at low health, using that to potentially take them all out of the fight is likely the smart move.

Well, kill shot and eviscerate are the only damage oriented burst skills. That put AS at the bottom of damage-based f1 skills.

Mace f1 provides a 3 second single target stun, hammer provides a 2 second AOE stun, LB provides a large fire field that inflicts several seconds of burning to people inside it, and it’s also a fire field that can stack might Via warhorn, earthshaker and arcing arrow. Sword provides a 4 second immobilize…

Shanks

Now a 10% damage buff would be a 20% damage buff on targets below 50% hp, right?

It’s still 10%. It’s just 10% of the larger damage provided by AS when foes are below 50%.

Kagamiku.9731:

Well, kill shot and eviscerate are the only damage oriented burst skills. That put AS at the bottom of damage-based f1 skills.

Mace f1 provides a 3 second single target stun, hammer provides a 2 second AOE stun, LB provides a large fire field that inflicts several seconds of burning to people inside it, and it’s also a fire field that can stack might Via warhorn, earthshaker and arcing arrow. Sword provides a 4 second immobilize…

Correction:

AS does the same damage as Eviscerate at one stage of adren, against up to five targets all around you, with less telegraph, and an extra 5s of fury in there for good measure.

Mace provides a 1s stun at that level, as does hammer, sword provides a 2s immobilize, and longbow does a max of 6s of burning in a 3s field if they stand in it.

More importantly, max damage AS doesn’t come at the expense of doing any other burst at full adren first. It’s a very good coup de grace.

AS does the same damage as Eviscerate at one stage of adren, against up to five targets all around you, with less telegraph, and an extra 5s of fury in there for good measure.

Only when they are at below 50% health. The difference in damage just becomes massive when you compare AS to stage 2 and stage 3 eviscerate. I consider the cleave to be almost worthless, and the fury to be redundant, that’s why I don’t think AS is even a remotely good f1 skill. You should be using eviscerate at stage 3 anyways since you will be receiving the extra damage from burst mastery and the extra bar of adrenaline, not to mention the higher burst damage that comes with stage three.

Mace provides a 1s stun at that level, as does hammer, sword provides a 2s immobilize, and longbow does a max of 6s of burning in a 3s field if they stand in it.

The whole point is you’re not supposed to waste your burst skill at stage 1.
Even if stage one AS isn’t complete trash, stage 2 and stage 3 AS is complete trash, and it becomes far inferior to any other burst skills after getting past stage 1.

The other weapons get these huge improvements to their burst skills with each added adrenaline bar, and AS gets a measly 5 second increase to its fury up time.

AS stage 1 can stay the same, but stage 2 and three needs buffed. Do you really think a full bar of adrenaline is only worth 5 more seconds fury uptime? It’s garbage.

Ugh… just had the site log me out and lost my reply.

Look, I think you’ll either have to try it to see or we’ll have to agree to disagree. You’re saying all the same things said when they made the changes to AS, yet the math works out more and more people are seriously coming around on it (just had another solid warrior confess last night he loves AS now too).

It’s exactly what ANet said they wanted it to be, an executioner type of burst that can hit a bunch of targets. If it did +100% damage below 50% health, it would be overpowered and would make gs the highest dps weapon available to warriors by far as you increase the number of targets, plus all the mobility benefits. The way it is now, it’s an excellent coup de grace that does a bit more than Backbreaker level damage on up to five targets and can be used immediately after another burst. You use it is to put people down after your normal rotation.

The thing is, it can’t execute anything with its current damage. It’s less than two auto attacks when foes are above 50% and a little more than two auto’s when foes are below it.

It will still do less damage than eviscerate even if the damage was increased to 100% damage to foes below 50% health. And unlike eviscerate it is situational, in that you can only use it half of the time for it to deal good damage. There is no reason why AC shouldn’t scale with adrenaline level. There is zero reason to use it beyond stage 1 adrenaline and that makes it a poorly developed skill that is lacking compared to other burst skills.

And I see no one using this skill in pVp, so I don’t see how peple are coming around. While some players use GS, they always use their other weapon set for the burst.

Edit: Also, the mobility benefits have nothing to do with Arcing Slice, that’s GS as a whole. Which happens to be far less popular than shoutbow or hambow or axebow anyways. Due to it being a very clunky weapon that requires an opponent to be immobile to land anything. While GS may be the highest damage weapon of warrior, its skill set is also the hardest to land. Rush is completely worthless for dealing damage, HB requires the opponent to be immobile, bladetrail has a long cast time and it’s slow moving, and GS auto atacks are terrible. Whirlwind attack is the only good skill on the warriors GS for pvp.

Kagamiku.9731:

The thing is, it can’t execute anything with its current damage…..

Oh, but it can. I ended two duels with it last night and another two while roaming. The night before, I put down two (admittedly green) players with it in a 1v3 fight. A few nights back I had a very skilled warrior express surprise when I put him down a couple of times using it during duels… he thought he was fine at 5k health after the rotation, then dead.

It will still do quite a bit less damage than eviscerate even if the damage was increased to 100% damage to foes below 50% health. And unlike eviscerate it is situational, in that you can only use it half of the time for it to deal good damage…..

Not that much less and you can hit multiple targets with it. Plus, you’re going to miss more with Eviscerate. And every burst is situational -> Evisc generally needs a setup, ES often does too if people are paying attention, Skullcrack and Flurry need other skills to do the damage output, Combustive Shot needs a reason for someone to stand in the field.

And I see no one using this skill in pVp, so I don’t see how peple are coming around. While some players use GS, they always use their other weapon set for the burst.

Most people don’t equip gs in pvp, so it’s a moot point. But, again, it’s not an either/or proposition. You use AS to put down your opponents after you’ve already used your other burst/rotation. If they aren’t low after your initial rotation, then you aren’t going to use it.

Edit: Also, the mobility benefits have nothing to do with Arcing Slice, that’s GS as a whole. Which happens to be far less popular than shoutbow or hambow anyways. Due to it being a very clunky weapon that requires an opponent to be immobile to land anything. While GS may be the highest damage weapon of warrior, its skill set is also the hardest to land. Rush is completely worthless for dealing damage, HB requires the opponent to be immobile, and GS auto atacks are terrible. Whirlwind attack is the only good skill on the warriors GS for pvp.

I don’t disagree, and I never said the mobility came from AS, I was saying it’d be a higher dps weapon than axe that was also highly mobile.. AS at +100% at <50% health would be a spammable near-Eviscerate level skill that can hit multiple targets in a circle that wouldn’t require setup and would have gs outpace axe in terms of dps.

Oh, and the gs auto isn’t terrible, it’s just not as good as an axe (nothing is) or a traited hammer. It’s better than the rest dps-wise. In wvw at least, it’s main value is in-combat and out-of-combat mobility. For example, hambows don’t do nearly as well in wvw as h/gs.

Well, this was beaten to death and we’ll never agree so I’ll just leave it with this:

Just to make sure, you’re saying that stage 2 and stage 3 AS should only provide 5 and 10 more seconds fury uptime and no other benefit? Why does stage two and stage 3 even exist?

Kagamiku.9731:

Well, this was beaten to death and we’ll never agree so I’ll just leave it with this:

Just to make sure, you’re saying that stage 2 and stage 3 AS should only provide 5 and 10 more seconds fury uptime and no other benefit? Why does stage two and stage 3 even exist?

Yeah, we’ll have to go with the agree to disagree option. And, no, I’m saying AS is a good burst that pairs well with other bursts.

You wouldn’t use a two or 3 stage AS just for the fury (that’d be nuts), but you may choose to use it then because a high damage skill is what you needed to end the fight. If axe was your alt weapon, there are fewer reasons to use AS but some do exist.

If you want damage to change with stages, then the top end wouldn’t be a lot higher than where AS is now otherwise it would risk making Eviscerate irrelevant, particularly when more targets are in the mix. Meaning, even with the <50% health condition, an AS that did full Eviscerate (or greater) damage to up to five targets at 360 degrees would be way overpowered.

Isn’t the whole point of increased adrenaline levels to make for stronger bursts. If it’s “nuts” to use AS passed stage1, then isn’t something clearly wrong with AS scaling?

Kagamiku.9731:

Isn’t the whole point of increased adrenaline levels to make for stronger bursts. If it’s “nuts” to use AS passed stage1, then isn’t something clearly wrong with AS scaling?

Not what I said, and it’s not worth prolonging the discussion.

You said it was balanced, so what else could it mean.

People generally don’t use a 3rd stage AS, because it does no extra damage over stage 1. It does work very well as an executioner skill if you run Burst Mastery, because I’ll typically nail someone with an evis and then swap to GS and AS — at that point the person who ate the evis is almost guaranteed to be below half health, and more times than not the AS is what finishes them. I don’t really care about the fury, it’s just a really nice finisher burst that’s difficult to spot and still hits relatively hard.