Guild Wars 2

So we’re getting a trait called blood reaction that converts precision to ferocity. 7% normally, 14% in berserker mode.

I ran some math really quick. In berserker mode with blood reaction, assassin’s gear gives you more damage than berserker’s gear.

However, while you are not in berserker mode and the trait is only 7%, berserker’s gear is slightly better than assassin’s.

This is without using the Axe Mastery trait (300 ferocity when dual wielding axes). The reason I didn’t use that for the comparison even though it gives assassin’s more of an edge is because the berserker’s power trait gives you far more damage, and in berserker mode you can trigger the tier 3 bonus very easily and frequently. However, axe mastery could still be a good choice for the adrenaline on crit, but that’s a different debate.

LOL what kind of math is this. Warrior gets to 100% crit chance with full berserker, any amount of assassins gear is a dps loss even with that trait.

Ya the arms tree give you 100% crit chance for your burst skills, no percision needed

You can’t fit arms on a power build in PvE because you need strength and tactics.

Or you could go tactics/arms/zerker for a burning build but then you wouldn’t be using assassin’s or berserker’s gear anyway.

Khristophoros.7194:

You can’t fit arms on a power build in PvE

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Phalanx_Strength

Please educate yourself on what the meta is before you make statements like that.

Lots of crit baseline = more of another stat. So my guess is Power + Ferocity + some condi or possible toughness/vit since prec will not be needed as much.

Kinda planning the same for Shiro rev with 40% crit Fury boon.

Killyox.3950:

Lots of crit baseline = more of another stat.

Or turn your signet of fury into a signet of might. That sounds a lot better than buying useless condi gear or some other extreme solution.

NikeEU.7690:

Khristophoros.7194:

You can’t fit arms on a power build in PvE

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Phalanx_Strength

Please educate yourself on what the meta is before you make statements like that.

Dude, context… I’m talking about Berserker.

Berserker is a specialization. So it has to be Berserker/Tactics/Strength for a PvE Berserker power build.

I have not seen the bezerkers trait line but I doubt it will be used for max dps. Unless it has some very powerful damage traits or makes condi super op it won’t be used in pve

Valik Shin.9027:

I have not seen the bezerkers trait line but I doubt it will be used for max dps. Unless it has some very powerful damage traits or makes condi super op it won’t be used in pve

Honestly the burning builds will probably be really OP.

Khristophoros.7194:

NikeEU.7690:

Khristophoros.7194:

You can’t fit arms on a power build in PvE

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Phalanx_Strength

Please educate yourself on what the meta is before you make statements like that.

Dude, context… I’m talking about Berserker.

Berserker is a specialization. So it has to be Berserker/Tactics/Strength for a PvE Berserker power build.

Why would anyone run a Power based Berserker build in PvE besides just for kicks?

As far as Condi based Berserker builds, the Burning won’t be that OP. We are talking an average of 5-6 stacks of burning over time. Nothing especially good there compared to Ranger/Engie. Warrior will still do most of it’s condi work with bleeds. And you won’t need Tactics because Tactics is garbage in a condi build when you have the option to take Arms/Discipline/Berserker.

I agree with Nike. Berserker power build won’t cut it

How would a berserker power build “not cut it?” The attack speed and ferocity bonuses should be enough to make it viable. It could very well become the new meta, but we wont know until the optimal skill rotations are discovered and tested for berserker builds.

Pretty much it. I don’t see how people thought it would.

Ferocity increase might be enough but 10% attack speed is like 2 or 3 hits with the speed at which we can kill thing

Berserker gets you…

10% attack speed boost
20% crit damage
Perma Berserker Power

Arms gets you

12% crit chance
3.5 average stacks of vulnerability
5% damage
Perma Berserker Power

In solo play, it comes out to pretty much a wash DPS-wise. In group play the extra Vulnerability makes Arms hands down superior.

The big thing is that Berserker > Discipline in solo play. Strength, Arms, Berserker greatsword camping. If you don’t need Fast hands Berserker is clearly better than Discipline.

In group play everyone and their mother has vulnerability. Engineer and Shiro Rev stack it within seconds to 25 for example ;p. So do other classes.

Killyox.3950:

In group play everyone and their mother has vulnerability. Engineer and Shiro Rev stack it within seconds to 25 for example ;p. So do other classes.

I pay a bit more attention to Vulnerability than you, and what you state is categorically untrue. In a meta group of Ele, ele, guard, thief, war your Vuln drops off after about 10 seconds or so. Every stack matters.

Killyox.3950:

In group play everyone and their mother has vulnerability. Engineer and Shiro Rev stack it within seconds to 25 for example ;p. So do other classes.

Against normal mobs yes. Against bosses no.

Dungeon bosses drop in 10 seconds anyways with a good group.

Valik Shin.9027:

Dungeon bosses drop in 10 seconds anyways with a good group.

So the quickness from going into berserk mode (traited) would be pretty valuable in this case. I mean it wouldn’t really matter but why not.

Khristophoros.7194:

Valik Shin.9027:

Dungeon bosses drop in 10 seconds anyways with a good group.

So the quickness from going into berserk mode (traited) would be pretty valuable in this case. I mean it wouldn’t really matter but why not.

Maybe. U would have to run the numbers to see if it’s worth it to take the trait line

Valik Shin.9027:

Dungeon bosses drop in 10 seconds anyways with a good group.

No, they don’t. At level 80, the average boss fight in record runs is 24 seconds. That’s record runs. Not casual LFG pugs. Record runs. Where people are doing the absolute best min max damage they can do. So please take note that Vulnerability production is incredibly important.

Are you aware that several guilds use Frailty sigils on their weapons in level 80 dungeon record runs? It’s that important.

Ya it’s a common theme for Try hard. They overestimate what they and most people are doing to the point that they magically do better than record run with less.

Thaddeus.4891:

Killyox.3950:

In group play everyone and their mother has vulnerability. Engineer and Shiro Rev stack it within seconds to 25 for example ;p. So do other classes.

Against normal mobs yes. Against bosses no.

Lmao world bosses always have 25 stack of everything on them

NikeEU.7690:

The big thing is that Berserker > Discipline in solo play. Strength, Arms, Berserker greatsword camping. If you don’t need Fast hands Berserker is clearly better than Discipline.

Wouldn’t burst mastery trait keep your adrenaline full always in berserk mode ?

@JVJD
They said in the Berserker intro stream that Burst Mastery was always supposed to just give 33% adren back on a full burst, and that “there will be no free rides” with respect to the trait and Berserker. So no.

Also, on the world boss point you made above, they’re talking about bosses that a 5-person team would be fighting, like dungeon bosses not world bosses. It’s a disagreement about the relative vulnerability stacking potential of different classes/builds.

JVJD.4912:

Thaddeus.4891:

Killyox.3950:

In group play everyone and their mother has vulnerability. Engineer and Shiro Rev stack it within seconds to 25 for example ;p. So do other classes.

Against normal mobs yes. Against bosses no.

Lmao world bosses always have 25 stack of everything on them

Who give a kitten about World bosse. They are auto-attack zerg fest except a couple of them. If you didn’t got that it was about 5 man bosses, you didn’t really took attention to the conversation.

Sinister is best in PVE on Berserker specialization. In PVP hybrid builds will be sick.

NikeEU.7690:

Valik Shin.9027:

Dungeon bosses drop in 10 seconds anyways with a good group.

No, they don’t. At level 80, the average boss fight in record runs is 24 seconds. That’s record runs. Not casual LFG pugs. Record runs. Where people are doing the absolute best min max damage they can do. So please take note that Vulnerability production is incredibly important.

Are you aware that several guilds use Frailty sigils on their weapons in level 80 dungeon record runs? It’s that important.

Maybe I should post some videos then cause the majority of bosses we can drop in 10 seconds. Final bosses for dungeons r a bit longer sometimes but still not very long. I don’t so arah so maybe that’s what ur referring to.

Valik Shin.9027:

NikeEU.7690:

Valik Shin.9027:

Dungeon bosses drop in 10 seconds anyways with a good group.

No, they don’t. At level 80, the average boss fight in record runs is 24 seconds. That’s record runs. Not casual LFG pugs. Record runs. Where people are doing the absolute best min max damage they can do. So please take note that Vulnerability production is incredibly important.

Are you aware that several guilds use Frailty sigils on their weapons in level 80 dungeon record runs? It’s that important.

Maybe I should post some videos then cause the majority of bosses we can drop in 10 seconds. Final bosses for dungeons r a bit longer sometimes but still not very long. I don’t so arah so maybe that’s what ur referring to.

“Average” is meaningless. If there are 10 bosses and 6 of them drop in 10 seconds, and 3 of them drop in 30 seconds and one takes 50 seconds for whatever reason, the average is 20 seconds.

Valik Shin.9027:

NikeEU.7690:

Valik Shin.9027:

Dungeon bosses drop in 10 seconds anyways with a good group.

No, they don’t. At level 80, the average boss fight in record runs is 24 seconds. That’s record runs. Not casual LFG pugs. Record runs. Where people are doing the absolute best min max damage they can do. So please take note that Vulnerability production is incredibly important.

Are you aware that several guilds use Frailty sigils on their weapons in level 80 dungeon record runs? It’s that important.

Maybe I should post some videos then cause the majority of bosses we can drop in 10 seconds. Final bosses for dungeons r a bit longer sometimes but still not very long. I don’t so arah so maybe that’s what ur referring to.

There is a couple of boss that drop under 10 because all of them are in underlevel dungeons. The vast majority of bosses don’t drop under 10sec even in current record run. If you kill them faster than record run you should make a video and get a record for yourself.

I don’t care about what happens in underleveled dungeons, no one min/maxes for that unless they are going for record runs which is all of 4 guilds in the game.

At level 80 the data is pretty clear: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/23370398-average-boss-kill-time

So again, you giving me some BS anecdotes about your team melting bosses in 10 seconds is not an argument nor is it evidence. This is the data from record runs, until you offer something more compelling than that you should probably let my point stand.

NikeEU.7690:

I don’t care about what happens in underleveled dungeons, no one min/maxes for that unless they are going for record runs which is all of 4 guilds in the game.

At level 80 the data is pretty clear: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/23370398-average-boss-kill-time

So again, you giving me some BS anecdotes about your team melting bosses in 10 seconds is not an argument nor is it evidence. This is the data from record runs, until you offer something more compelling than that you should probably let my point stand.

While i understand ur talking about level 80 dungeons , it not what most people do. Even good group tend to avoid them cause they aren’t worth it. So to completely disregard under level dungeons (which some people do min max within reason) is a complete disregard of the majority of good players.

NikeEU.7690:

I don’t care about what happens in underleveled dungeons, no one min/maxes for that unless they are going for record runs which is all of 4 guilds in the game.

At level 80 the data is pretty clear: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/23370398-average-boss-kill-time

So again, you giving me some BS anecdotes about your team melting bosses in 10 seconds is not an argument nor is it evidence. This is the data from record runs, until you offer something more compelling than that you should probably let my point stand.

According to your data the kill times vary a lot, just like I expected. So the average is a meaningless number. I mean if you wanted to break a record you’d have to optimize for that specific boss and the previous record would tell you what window of time to optimize around. Optimizing for the average would probably not get you a new record.

I forgot why we’re talking about kill times but obviously it’s a case by case thing.

Valik Shin.9027:

NikeEU.7690:

I don’t care about what happens in underleveled dungeons, no one min/maxes for that unless they are going for record runs which is all of 4 guilds in the game.

At level 80 the data is pretty clear: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/23370398-average-boss-kill-time

So again, you giving me some BS anecdotes about your team melting bosses in 10 seconds is not an argument nor is it evidence. This is the data from record runs, until you offer something more compelling than that you should probably let my point stand.

While i understand ur talking about level 80 dungeons , it not what most people do. Even good group tend to avoid them cause they aren’t worth it. So to completely disregard under level dungeons (which some people do min max within reason) is a complete disregard of the majority of good players.

What?? CoF, CoE and Arah are some of the most profitable dungeon in the game with AC.

Khristophoros.7194:

According to your data the kill times vary a lot, just like I expected. So the average is a meaningless number. I mean if you wanted to break a record you’d have to optimize for that specific boss and the previous record would tell you what window of time to optimize around. Optimizing for the average would probably not get you a new record.

I forgot why we’re talking about kill times but obviously it’s a case by case thing.

Remember that those are record run numbers. No pugs reach these numbers. So in reality very few bosses are killed under 10sec which was the initial point we disagreed with.

I don’t think you guys supporting the idea of a power berserker elite spec build in group dungeons/fractals understand the role of the warrior.

It’s not like it can’t work but there’s no reason to use it unless you’re alone. In groups the warrior’s role is very niche for dungeons and fractals and isn’t there for any reason other than buffing others. That’s its job, and the elite spec doesn’t help with that.

The increased attack speed and crit chance has potential to be good for solos though.

Remember: everything is viable, but not everything can be optimal.

Purple Miku.7032:

I don’t think you guys supporting the idea of a power berserker elite spec build in group dungeons/fractals understand the role of the warrior.

It’s not like it can’t work but there’s no reason to use it unless you’re alone. In groups the warrior’s role is very niche for dungeons and fractals and isn’t there for any reason other than buffing others. That’s its job, and the elite spec doesn’t help with that.

The increased attack speed and crit chance has potential to be good for solos though.

Remember: everything is viable, but not everything can be optimal.

You’d still take banners and PS so what’s the issue?

I’ve ran a lot of dungeons and seen a ton of pro runners come through my guild so here’s what I have seen with the level 80 dungeons

Arah is nt worth the hassle to most people unless they r bored or what a challenge. The time and effort required isn’t worth it to most dungeon runners

Coe. Yes Pl best loot dungeon in game always worth running but most people avoid cause it can be a pain to get into it cause it gets locked. Plus the bosses drop pretty quick save a couple

Cof. Get locked some times which is a slight turn off but even being level 80 u can still blow those bosses up quickly