Balance Stance should not be a boon.
When I press my utility skill I want to be unstoppable – why have boon strip and counterplay that is obviously stupid
I AM A WARRIOR I WILL NOT BE STOPPED
When I press my utility skill I want to be unstoppable – why have boon strip and counterplay that is obviously stupid
I AM A WARRIOR I WILL NOT BE STOPPED
Warriors don’t have boon stripping abilities. If they give warriors that, then sure that’s fair game.
He’s talking about other classes having boon stripping abilities.
He’s referring to how other classes can strip boons for counterplay, but warriors can not strip boons for counterplay. So warriors have no counterplay against boons, while other classes do.
Lich form necro comes to mind…Stab makes them completely ridiculous and impossible to deal with as a warrior.
When I press my utility skill I want to be unstoppable – why have boon strip and counterplay that is obviously stupid
I AM A WARRIOR I WILL NOT BE STOPPED
Berserker stance and endure pain are easily counterable, l2p dude.
and player who pops these stances at once are as good as a dead cat.
(edited by Simon.3794)
He’s referring to how other classes can strip boons for counterplay, but warriors can not strip boons for counterplay. So warriors have no counterplay against boons, while other classes do.
Lich form necro comes to mind…Stab makes them completely ridiculous and impossible to deal with as a warrior.
Actually they designed in a boon-hate mechanic in warrior, while it isn’t boon-strip/steal it is more than some professions that do not have interact with countering boons at all have.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Empowered
Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.
Lich form necro comes to mind…Stab makes them completely ridiculous and impossible to deal with as a warrior.
When I see things lke that, I can’t refrain myself… I have to link you this video.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
When I press my utility skill I want to be unstoppable – why have boon strip and counterplay that is obviously stupid
I AM A WARRIOR I WILL NOT BE STOPPED
Warriors don’t have boon stripping abilities. If they give warriors that, then sure that’s fair game.
Hi Nullification sigil,Try it..it’s fun !
Sounds good. While they are at it I think Ranger Traps shouldn’t apply normal conditions, because it’s stupid people just cleanse them. They are TRAPS people should get trapped in them without hope of escape, so if they are made special so they can’t be cleansed that would help.
Thanks.
Cufufalating – Ranger / Part-Time Mesmer
Gunnar’s Hold
Gunnar’s Hold
Lich form necro comes to mind…Stab makes them completely ridiculous and impossible to deal with as a warrior.
When I see things lke that, I can’t refrain myself… I have to link you this video.
That would have been relevant if it had anything to do with lich form necros and the lack of counterplay warrior has against them.
Though it is funny to watch noobs range auto attack while a warrior is reflecting their attacks back at them..
Bran.7425Actually they designed in a boon-hate mechanic in warrior, while it isn’t boon-strip/steal it is more than some professions that do not have interact with countering boons at all have.
Some more damage does not a counterplay make. It’s the same as any damage modifier. It just stacks in relation to boons. It can be anywhere between bad (0-2 boons) to great (5+boons). But still worthless against a lich form necro with stability!
(edited by Kagamiku.9731)
What’s irrelevant in the fact that you can return every attack of the lich to the lich? Yes, lich auto attack that hurt like hell is a projectile that can be reflect. Plus when in lich form necro don’t have acces to their heal so… a bunch of reflect and the match is over.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
Some more damage does not a counterplay make. It’s the same as any damage modifier. It just stacks in relation to boons. It can be anywhere between bad (0-2 boons) to great (5+boons). But still worthless against a lich form necro with stability!
I am just pointing out that the boon-hate that was built into the warrior profession and was discussed in a ready up, whether or not you find it useful is not really the point as the designer place it as an option, which is still more than some profession have access to.
Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.
What’s irrelevant in the fact that you can return every attack of the lich to the lich? Yes, lich auto attack that hurt like hell is a projectile that can be reflect. Plus when in lich form necro don’t have acces to their heal so… a bunch of reflect and the match is over.
And I’m telling you that any player even half decent will stop attacking while reflect is up and finish you off when it’s not. LIch form lasts much longer than the 5 seconds of reflect you would have with shield and mace…Not to mention, Warrior has to trait missile deflection for it to even have the skill despite dogged march being so much better. As well as use weapons that warriors barely ever run in PvP in the first place. …And it still wont do jack against a lich necro that stops attacking while his attacks are being reflected back at him.
So you’re basically speccing to beat something while making yourself weaker against other things all while still being at a huge disadvantage against what you originally tried to spec against.
(edited by Kagamiku.9731)
Can’t we just give warriors boon strip and avoid making the class even more mindless to play?
Laviere – Hybrid Wellomancer
Makonne – Hybrid Regen Ranger
Makonne – Hybrid Regen Ranger
What’s irrelevant in the fact that you can return every attack of the lich to the lich? Yes, lich auto attack that hurt like hell is a projectile that can be reflect. Plus when in lich form necro don’t have acces to their heal so… a bunch of reflect and the match is over.
And I’m telling you that any player even half decent will stop attacking while reflect is up and finish you off when it’s not. LIch form lasts much longer than the 5 seconds of reflect you would have with shield and mace…Not to mention, Warrior has to trait missile deflection for it to even have the skill despite dogged march being so much better. As well as use weapons that warriors barely ever run in PvP in the first place. …And it still wont do jack against a lich necro that stops attacking while his attacks are being reflected back at him.
So you’re basically speccing to beat something while making yourself weaker against other things all while still being at a huge disadvantage against what you originally tried to spec against.
So wait. You have the ability to make a lich COMPLETELY STOP ATTACKING OR DIE. And your saying its not enough? wat? You can force a lich to burn the majority of its duration not doing anything or die pathetically. If you can’t see the value int hat and still say you have NO options against them. Your in the wrong game mode.
Ghost Yak
You make them completely stop attacking for 5 seconds and then they proceed to kill you after that. I’m sorry if you don’t see how that’s not counterplay. One thing is certain though, it won’t kill a half-competent lich. And if they do somehow kill themselves from your reflect, you would have been able to kill them without reflects since they’re teribad players. Also, news flash. 5 seconds is not a majority of its duration. Lich form lasts for 20seconds so you’re essentially nerfing yourself to counter lich form necros when in reality it only makes them stop attacking 5 seconds out of their 20 second duration. A whole 25%, awesome!
This is the same for any reflect skill. Guardian reflect is infinitely better than the crap warrior reflect, sincee they don’t need to trait for it and use crappy weapons to have the reflect. Plus their reflect is AOE. And it lasts longer. I’ve played a lot of pvp, and the number of mace/shield warriors I’ve seen is somewhere between a few% and zero. I can’t even remember seeing one in recent memory. This is doubly proven by the fact that of the 8 warrior pvp builds listed in metabattle, only one of them use mace/shield and it doesn’t take the missile deflection trait and is only using mace/shield because it’s a bunker build and needs the extra blocks. It also lacks the damage to kill anything on its own, so there is no point taking missile deflection. Also, as I said earlier, warrior missile deflection is almost worthless against a competent player.
Are you sure it’s not you that’s in the wrong game mode?
(edited by Kagamiku.9731)
Woooow kitten your defensive.
In order though. When I said the majority of its duration I was assuming you knew how to use LOS and dodge skills. Sadly im wrong apparently.
Im sorry but if your trying to contest a point with a lich knocking on you in ANY build (besides possibly a consecration guardian) or class as long as that lich knows what hes doing hes going to wreck you. Because thats what the lich is designed to do.
The mace shield combo doesnt reflect forever thats true. But its more than long enough for you to reposition yourself in a situation where your not getting gibbed.
The mace auto attack also applies weakness which. NEWS FLASH (to copy you) nukes lich damage by quite a bit. Also The game isn’t balanced on 1v1s. Nor Should it be. If your in a group fight and an enemy necro pops a lich that necro will be getting focused by your entire team.
Also. Theres no point in comparing warrior reflect to that of other classes. Each reflect has its own limitations and strengths. Each one is made for a different situation.
The warrior reflects job is to keep you safe from projectiles long enough for you to act. Does it do that? (OH HELL YES). And sometimes its even a very powerful weapon on top of that.
The MINOR traits job isn’t to protect you from another classes ELITE. Its job is to buy you time to find out what you need to do to survive. By convincing the guy shooting you to stop doing so for a few seconds. Giving you breathing room and a chance to maneuver off the point or behind some cover or apply some form of debilitation lowering the damage he does to you (im looking at you mace 1). A warrior isn’t meant to have the reflects of a guardian. Niether will a guardian likely ever have a moving wall of reflection. (imagine the kitten storm THAT would cause in wvw)
Edit: but then were pulling away from the OP my apologies to the OP about that this discussion (if theres any need to continue it) should be done in another thread.
Ghost Yak
(edited by Shadelang.3012)
Woooow kitten your defensive.
In order though. When I said the majority of its duration I was assuming you knew how to use LOS and dodge skills. Sadly im wrong apparently.
LOS… There is nothing stopping a lich form necro from getting in your face and dpsing you until you have your tail between your legs and running in the other direction. Sure, their damage is ranged, but since you can’t stun them and their damage far outweigh your own in lich form, they’ll kill you before you kill them. Even in melee.
Im sorry but if your trying to contest a point with a lich knocking on you in ANY build (besides possibly a consecration guardian) or class as long as that lich knows what hes doing hes going to wreck you. Because thats what the lich is designed to do.
That’s not entirely true. Boon stripping makes lich form necro something you can at least deal with, and Polymorph stops them completely. Also, we’re talking about warriors here, not other classes. No warrior build can deal with lich form necro which is what you argued against in the first place.
The mace shield combo doesnt reflect forever thats true. But its more than long enough for you to reposition yourself in a situation where your not getting gibbed.
By reposition, you mean run away, then yes.
The mace auto attack also applies weakness which. NEWS FLASH (to copy you) nukes lich damage by quite a bit. Also The game isn’t balanced on 1v1s. Nor Should it be. If your in a group fight and an enemy necro pops a lich that necro will be getting focused by your entire team.
The third auto attack on mace applies weakness. I don’t even need to tell you how easy that is to dodge. Not only does it have a 3/4second cast time and it’s incredibly easy to dodge, you can also predict when it’s coming because it’s the third attack in your auto-chain(a very slow auto-chain, I might add). Not only that, but what you’re suggesting is to get into melee range of a lich necro and try to apply a weakness you’re likely to miss and completely screw yourself over.
Also, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grim_Specter
The funniest part is that it’s unblockable so he can just use it while you’re blocking and profit. So the lich can find comic relief in how he gutted every one of your boons, while he cleansed all of his conditions. At the same time. Oh and did I mention that it also deals an insane amount of damage? Because it does!
Also. Theres no point in comparing warrior reflect to that of other classes. Each reflect has its own limitations and strengths. Each one is made for a different situation.
Warrior reflect has no situational use. There is always a better skill to pick up. It’s only used in troll builds and WvW against pugs.
The warrior reflects job is to keep you safe from projectiles long enough for you to act. Does it do that? (OH HELL YES). And sometimes its even a very powerful weapon on top of that.
See, that’s where you’re wrong. The reflect doesn’t do anything. The block is what keeps you safe from projectiles. You’d be traiting into something any good player would be smart enough to avoid entirely. You might send one of his auto attacks back at him, but as soon as he knows you traited for reflect, it will never happen again.
The MINOR traits job isn’t to protect you from another classes ELITE. Its job is to buy you time to find out what you need to do to survive.
Again, that’s the block, not the reflect.
By convincing the guy shooting you to stop doing so for a few seconds. Giving you breathing room and a chance to maneuver off the point or behind some cover or apply some form of debilitation lowering the damage he does to you (im looking at you mace 1).
Sure, he can keep shooting you while you’re blocking and didn’t trait reflects, but he’s not going to be doing damage to you. Because y’know, you’re clocking his projectiles. In the meantime, they can gap close on you to be in better position when your block runs out.
A warrior isn’t meant to have the reflects of a guardian. Niether will a guardian likely ever have a moving wall of reflection. (imagine the kitten storm THAT would cause in wvw)
True, but it doesn’t change that wall of reflection is actually useful. Mace and shield are made to bunker down. If you’re using it to run away more than a couple times then it’s not being used correctly. Wall of reflection pretty much covers an entire point and negates ranged attackers from hitting you and any other teammate on point for an entire 10 seconds.
(edited by Kagamiku.9731)
I can see the GM trait now:
Burst skills remove knock a boon from your target for each bar of adrenaline spent.
@ Kagamiku. On reading your posts ill say you are correct about the difference between the base blocking and the reflections. The reflections are an addition too and not a staple of the weapon set. (despite what my previous experience might say. But of course how I THINK things are aren’t indicative of reality as human nature has shown multiple times over history) I will flat out admit 100% that your correct on that and I am wrong there.
On the gameplay perspective though. Ive found that the reflect does indeed cause a reliable form of deterrence on TOP of the base defense of hte blocks. Most players (even experience and skilled ones) will be hit by the first of the attacks they fire at the very least. (that attack serves as the wake up call “oh kitten this guy is running reflects I should stop attacking for a second”) This in my experience changes there combat behavior significantly more than the base block. And often in ways that are beneficial to us.
On thinking of the issue from your prespective however. I could agree more that the ability to remove boons on a burst skill such as serval suggested above could be a needed buff. Although I don’t know if it needs to be a grandmaster seeing as how heavily its tied into the class mechanic. It should definetly not be something just any build can take easily however. But thats for a different post.
I dont feel that warriors need a better reflect. Or even a better series of blocking. Or even EASY access to even limited boon stripping. Looking at it from the perspective you’ve put forward however. I do agree that SOMETHING could afford to be altered in this situation. However I can’t think of any solutions that wouldn’t allow warriors to completely walk over certain builds of other classes. Who currently rely entirely on either ranged combat (the longbow ranger) on the reflect end or boon based enhancements in order to survive conflict with a warrior.
I feel however ultimately, despite it seeming very rough for the warrior in the warrior vs lich necro matchup (provided the lich is competent), the current balance of power in that situation is actually correct. Seeing as how long the cooldown on the lich actually is. In relation to its relative uptime. Yes I agree an unprepared warrior will most likely be forced to give up the point to the lich temporarily (most likely able to hold out long enough to prevent the lich from full capping it before the warrior reengages after fleeing) but at the same time I feel that thats waranted for that aspect of the pvp game mode.
Ghost Yak