Guild Wars 2

I wanted to add that recently I have finished map completion on my Engi and have started considering making that my main and letting my Warrior fall to the wayside. I really love the concept of Warrior…but right now Scrapper will appear to offer the type of playstyle I actually wanted from Warrior.

I’ll be able to run this build here and be a big, scary melee bruiser that also has good team support. The Elite spec has some major problems, but the core concept is strong enough that it’s starting to look like it’s time to make the switch.

Berserker just isn’t what i was looking for. The concepts behind it seem confused and run counter to what I expected elite specs to be after seeing the Reaper. In fact, I’m certainly going to be trying out Reaper, it’s just that my Engi was never too far behind my Warrior but my Necro doesn’t have as much cash/money sunk into it…yet. Reaper is a great example of what a good elite spec is, it significantly changes how you play the class.

Anyways, I really hope that a few patches after HoT comes out Berserker might bring me back to Warrior…but as it stands base Warrior has gotten stale and berserker doesn’t offer anything that truly excited me like Scrapper does (dat hammer though).

+1

Solid write up Burr. I believe you’re voicing a lot of warrior’s concerns. Choosing between two core specs along with berserker is illuminating problems with core warrior. And the restrictions on entering berserk mode are flat out punishing by rubbing those problems in your face. I’d be very interested in a dev response to BWE3.

Haven’t played in 18 months. Coming back to see the changes I mostly like them. However, mesmer ‘mirror’ /transmute/adaptive armour/Stun increase whilst stun decreasing and a number of other things all caught my attention.

When I left warrior was strong. Arguably edging on too strong after a long series of buffs. Now it seems it has been diminished, chained down and each new change only tightens those chains. I laughed heartily when I saw the adrenaline decay. In PvE you never gain enough on trash mobs, and when you do it has decayed by the time you reach the next target 1600 units away. Anyway..just my perspective from comparing what was…long break..now what is. Why would a player who has invested so much in warrior continue to play them when so much love has been removed?

+1

That said, Beta weekends might as well have been called Demo weekends. There’s no way they’ll still act upon any feedback beyond “skill x is not properly activating” or “boon y is not correctly applied”. Mechanics of the Elite spec have been carved in stone a long time ago and they’re quite frankly underwhelming for the Warrior.

But hey, at least now I know I need not even bother switching out my build on my actual char when the expansion hits.

Spurrlock.3219:

Choosing between two core specs along with berserker is illuminating problems with core warrior. And the restrictions on entering berserk mode are flat out punishing by rubbing those problems in your face.

Could not have said it better myself.

how warrior play in these day is like we attack until our hp become like 30~40% and turn into rampage warrior and finish everything.

wonder how would rage warrior change this.

It doesnt matter what elite spec they release. Base warrior has too many flaws;

- Str line is must have if you run gs..which you will ALWAYS do in dps build as everything else has 0 mobility. Maybe if they give warrior dps/mobility staff in future they could drop str or actually give axe some mobility and rework it in general.

-Def line, while quite weak its generally picked up for cleansing ire and endure pain at 25% hp. Tbh cleansing ire inst that great as it far from reliable without lb. If they could make gaining adrenaline on hit baseline warrior wouldnt be forced to run def line anymore.

-Discipline is mandatory, but its not due to fast hands. Its just too good to pass but the same goes for other classes really.

-No space for fun utility skills. Warrior without stances is a freekill as its his main source of sustain. You can pick up rage, physical, signets or w/e. But they do not offer any sustain options and if they do their cd is over the top (signets). If berserker could trait to cleanse and heal on rage skill usage it would be a whole different world

Its just better to move away from this passive crap and never look back. There are many new shinies coming with HoT like reaper, scrapper, rev. They all offer something which warrior will never get due to desing choice. Imho as i said its not problem with berserker..they can always tune it. Its problem with base war.

I agree with everything BurrTheKing said.

It looks like Scrapper is going to become the melee bruiser class… the true “weapon master” class in the game. Warrior is getting left in the dust. Engineer and Necro or bust after the expansion drops.

It does feel underwhelming.
Mostly because of the lack of baseline fast hands which stops a lot of potentially great and exciting builds from being viable. So the builds you have to play are really limited and lackluster. Only cool build I can think of is distracting strikes skull grinder.

I can also say from my engineer experience all scrapper has done is give us a true melee option. The play is still very similar to regular HGH just no rifle. The gyros are poor and outclassed so it’s only the hammer that you actually notice really. It just feels like engineer with a hammer.

+1 for BurrTheKing

He’s spot on, in fact another side effect of the stagnant state of Berserker is one so simple it’s often overlooked, it doesn’t feel fun or interesting to play. I know for myself once you get past the sparkly new effects (which happens very quickly) you quickly realize that Berserker/Rage Skills (so worthless)/New Talents (have next to no synergy with other traitlines) don’t really change how warriors play other than to make them more erratic and annoying to micromanage. I mean I know all this seems like a given but man did I get bored with Berserker fast despite my intent to really see what it could do (main character is a warrior). So many of the other elite specs really make the classes feel fresh like Reaper, Chrono, Daredevil ect, Berserker doesn’t, I find myself dealing with mobs exactly the same way as before and wondering what this spec brought that’s really “new” at all.

Dunno, just sort of voicing my concerns and echoing what BurrTheKing said.

Burr’s idea is what I was expecting when berserker was revealed. I mean look at the art for the Berserker it just looks like the warrior lost all fear and is ready to tear it up. Instead we got some very poorly designed skills.

I remember playing warhammer online where they had the Choppa which is essentially a melee berserker class. There was a 3 stage rage meter that damage would increase as your meter filled, but you would also become more vulnerable to damage as the meter filled. There was certain skills that would use the meter in portions and basically the more meter the skill required the more effective the skill. Mechanics that work like this add skill to the class in requiring proper use of rage and abilities.

I too will most likely switching to Scrapper and I have been playing warrior since early access. That is if I don’t just do what many others have already and just quit altogether.

Correct me if I misunderstand the point of what you mean. But otherwise just offering my perspective. I believe it’s ‘Berserker doesn’t change how PEOPLE play warrior’. Is that a design flaw or just people? Bit of both?

BurrTheKing.8571:

After playing BW3 I think it’s fairly safe to say that the biggest issue with the Berserker is the design of the form itself. Once you stop going Berserk you feel like a weaker Warrior and I often found myself not using my normal burst skills so that I could insure that once the form came off of CD I could just jump into it.

I agree with this so much. But for me it almost serves as an argument against what you’re saying. I mean to say you literally just gave a few obvious playstyle difference from current warrior meta! The biggest is the managing your adrenaline so you can do something more with it rather than just spam f1.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I assume the long CD was to differentiate Berserk from Death/Reaper Shroud. However, I feel like going Berserk would be much more fun if you could maintain the form longer by consistently hitting the enemy. Changes like this would be radical, but would really make Berserker feel like a totally different playstyle to Warrior:

• Berserk has no CD, but by default a lower duration.

• Landing Primal Bursts extends your Berserk time.

• You only have Berserk Form and Primal Bursts, you lose your regular Bursts.

This wouldn’t change anything from what the warrior is now except you get one bar instead of three with overpowered F1 you can constantly spam. Which is why I doubt it’ll happen like you mentioned. But my point is with the duration mechanic it adds a subtle element that the revenant has which is active energy management. If it didn’t it’d be another faceroll heavy. With a subtle pseudo adrenaline management it adds a key part that will, in my opinion, differentiate berserkers from warriors that have berserk.

BurrTheKing.8571:

That probably sounds crazy to some, but if all you have to do to go Berserk is reach that 30 adrenaline and you have no CD on the form then you not only don’t need those normal bursts anyways, but it also makes a Berserker very different from Warrior.

Literally what I mean above^ No change except overpower faceroll = no change in warrior.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Right now, Berserker just feels like Warrior + a new form. By losing their normal Burst skills, the player has truly become something very different than a standard Warrior. You will be consistently angry and a good Berserker will STAY angry. Right now, a Berserker gets angry for a very specific amount of time…then goes back to being a Warrior.

Valid point, but I don’t want to be mad forever. ;]

BurrTheKing.8571:

Having consistent access to 5 second CD bursts would also potentially make Discipline (Fast Hands) feel less mandatory. I still think Fast Hands should be baseline, but if the devs aren’t OK with this then at least you’ll be less punished for having a slower weapon swap because you’ll be able to push out more Primal Bursts.

I never used disc in my berserker builds so arguable. Fast hands is too ingrained in warrior meta NOW which is why it will never not be baseline, like you said.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Like many of my posts, I know a radical rework (more in the terms of design as opposed to the difficulty to implement) such as this will mostly likely not happen, nor will this be seen by any of the class design devs. However, the idea of Berserker being a spec that allows you to consistently enter this new form at the cost of your old abilities seems much more in line with what Elite Specializations are supposed to be. The Reaper seems VERY different from the Necro because a major part of their mechanics change. Berserker is Warrior + New stuff – a specialization you probably didn’t wanna give up for Berserker.

Matter of opinion, but I respect it.

I’m going to assume we drop Discipline for Berserker. No more Fast Hands. That means we need to adapt a build around just one weapon since we’ll be less capable of swapping when we need to. Obviously, for most, that weapon will be greatsword. The problem I have now is that the +15% attack speed boost is actually HURTING your rotation because you’ll run out of skills to use and be stuck on autoattack. You could just go Axe/Mace instead, and sit on autoattack with +15% Berserk boost and +15% dual wield boost, but that’s such an awful and boring play style.

What I think Berserk (the F2 skill, not Berserker, the class) needs for fluidity’s sake is an equal amount of ALACRITY. To make this feel even more like a raging Berserker ramping up in intensity, I’d suggest starting at 0%, and then every second gain 2% attack speed and alacrity, which tapers off over 3s after Berserk ends. After 15s of Berserk, you’ll have 30% attack speed and alacrity for an instant and then, as your control over your rage falters, you’ll lose a stack (of 2%) every 0.2s. When your character yells “NO!” you’ll feel it too.

This will allow ANY weapon to continue its rotation better, it promotes condi and power builds equally, it applies to melee and ranged weapons equally. It evens out the loss of Discipline – which has a pretty decent amount of Quickness uptime too, remember!

Alacrity is a new mechanic launching with Heart of Thorns. Why not make use of it outside of just Chronomancer? It won’t be stealing their thunder since it won’t have any team utility and it won’t be the full +50% boost. This also makes Berserker feel so much better than it does currently.

That said, it’s almost certainly way too late now for it to happen. Still, wishful thinking. We can only give you our ideas, ANet. Please make the spec feel like a true Berserker, at the very least.