Guild Wars 2

Warrior and Berserker lack many things, but saying they lack synergy simply isn’t true.

Distracting Blows + Body Blow + Skull Grinder

I should probably still include Bloody Roar even though the synergy isn’t as good as before, it can still interrupt though. If you land all of your CC on Mace and interrupt the synergy possibilities are pretty crazy. Oh, you could even use rifle in a build using this cause that has 2 interrupts as well.

The problem is always that you have to give up either Discipline or Defense to take advantage of this synergy.

Rousing Resilience + Outrage/Head Butt/Savage Instinct

How well these complement each other seems to be flying under the radar. Yes, you might be a bit weaker to condis but the healing is still good. You can potentially use Head Butt to break a stun then break that 1 second stun for another heal. It’s sustain that isn’t totally dependent on double Endure Pain, but you can bring that still as well. If you want even more sustain you could bring Dead or Alive as well.

Burst Mastery + Smash Brawler

Very simple, short burst CD and getting adrenaline back from those bursts letting you spam them even more.

So, while this doesn’t mean our class is in a good spot, saying it has no synergy is insulting because it’s clear that these synergies were intended and if not for other issues some builds would be even more powerful than they are now.

Synergy, when the sum of its parts are greater thatnthe whole.

This is 2-3 traits that work ok with each other. This is not 2-3 skill tree’s that all combine well to make an over all stronger build than if they had not taken them.

All of these synergies are nullified with one block,dodge, blind and stability.

It is more a gimmick or a build approach than any actual true synergy.

If i could slide in unsuspecting foe and sundering mace, as well has something that does anything when it blocks+ blocking enemies creates situation X then we’d have some synergy beginning to happen.

Synergy as an example is;
Skill X turns boons into conditions. Blinding an opponent cause chill. Chill causes damage. Fear now also causes chill. Your marks are now unblockable. Critical hits on opponents below health value X cause chill to surrounding enemies. Your conditions restore a small percentage of health. This weapon extends conditions duration. This skill gives stability but can be burst to fear opponents, which in turn causes chill, which in turn heals you, which in turn if you then crit them chills surrounding enemies, which in turn damages them, which in turn heals you more….that is synergy of whole skill trees and traits within the trees working well with each other to the point the synergy is greater than the some of its parts.

Now compare that to warrior.
Warriors synergy may not be insulting, but it is disappointing and nothing more than a handful of traits that if they hit work well for a brief period of time.

that is not synergy at most thats a chain

This is synergy to you? l o l.

Hey BurrTheKing, I agree that there are some “hidden” synergies within the Berserker specialization, but I think they’re so niche that it’s hard to argue in favor of them over the meta build.

(1) Distracting Strikes + Body Blows + Skull Grinder (or Gunflame):

I agree this is good for condi builds, but think of the opportunity costs. You have to give up Berserker’s Power and Forceful Greatsword for this combo, which together amount to +30% damage (multiplicative). I just don’t see the merit of this synergy for anything but pure condi builds. which we already knew would benefit from Berserker (a condi-focused specialization).

(2) Rousing Resilience + Outrage/Headbutt/Savage Instinct:

I think this is the most gimmicky of synergies from Berserker. Sure, if you manage to break three stuns in a row, it might be a nice combo, but again, look to the opportunity costs: you have to give up Last Stand + triple stances to enable this build. If you were running the typical meta build, you wouldn’t have to worry about stuns in the first place (Balanced Stance), and you would get both Endure Pain and Berserker’s Stance (anti-condi) to boot, on longer timers.

(3) Burst Mastery + Smash Brawler:

Usually the timers on the primal bursts exceed the rate of adrenaline (10) for Berserker mode anyway, so I don’t think this is that mind-blowing. Especially considering how Burst Mastery helps any Warrior build, Berserker or not.

As one of your fans, I still use your Skull Cracker Omega/Mighty Skull Crack build to better effect in sPvP than any Berserker build. I agree with you that unorthodox synergies exist with Berserker, but I don’t see any of them as superior to core Warrior.

Oh, so THIS is how synergy works. I was thinking my condi/chill combos on my necro was synergy. Guess I’m kittened.

I agree that there are some synergies between Berserker and the other specializations, and I believe that there are more than what Burr has listed. They may not be as powerful that what you can find in other classes (like the Reaper indeed), but they exist and work.

I think most (PvP) warriors have simply been so disappointed with their early testing that they have stopped testing the Berserker specialization, and now blindly despise it. There’s no blame to be laid though, because the elite specialization looks indeed less promising than the ones of the other classes.

After testing many different builds, in both power or condition flavors, I’m still struggling to find something decent in Berserker. However, the more I play it, the better I understand it, so I believe that my lack of enthusiasm for the line simply reflects an insufficient experience with it. I’m pretty sure it’s ‘viable’. As for ‘competitive’, still need to test more.

So far, I’ve found that you won’t win all 1v1s with it, and you need to carefully identify which you role want to fulfill, and stick to it (no more goofing around). It is to be played a bit differently than other warrior builds, in that you commit to a certain adrenaline usage (you must plan the ramping up and the activation of the Berserker mode), and you must drop a useful existing specialization to use it (need to build in a different spirit, and not use the Berserker as a poor substitute of the dropped line).

Everything i try with berserk is weaker than with the older trait line setups.Unless i go full braindead burn build or gunflame one trick pony,both arn’t my playstyle and i can’t enjoy playing smthing like that for very long.Ive had some succes with mace/gs hybrid perplex and berserk traitline but again it means i have to give up something better to be able to burst more often.It’s just not worth it to give up traits that are much more useful to me,i switched back to my old setups and been doing so much better than trying to make berserk work,i’m not gonna bother with it untill anet pulls their head out their kitten and realize dmg buffing isn’t what warri needs,our damage is fine,the rest isn’t.

Cleansing Ire and 3s cooldown bursts sound like a good idea as well to constantly remove conditions. But again you have to give up either Strength or Discipline to get it and Last Stand is probably more useful anyway, especially with double EP.

I tend to agree with Thug. There are some small synergies, but the opportunity cost (esp. for RR and Distracting Strikes) is huge.
And CntrlAltDefeat is right about needing more Trait line synergies (great example from Reaper).
I really think it’s the core Warrior that needs the most rework rather than the Berserk Trait line (which on it’s own is pretty nice). And the Rage skills need to be redone/improved. Headbutt is the only one that seems at least creative and fresh.

I had actually created some builds that used these synergies before I found this thread. There’s definitely some obvious matches.

Thuggernaut.1250:

(1) Distracting Strikes + Body Blows + Skull Grinder (or Gunflame):

Why not hybrid? It certainly fits better considering Mace.
Hybrid cc Berserker

(2) Rousing Resilience + Outrage/Headbutt/Savage Instinct:

There’s definitely something here. In this build you can Heal 5k per stun break while getting stability. If Shake it Off is the one that procs, it’s 7.5k. And of course, because you don’t need stats to drop cc of your own, you can get away with the lower power. Ultimate anti-cc

(3) Burst Mastery + Smash Brawler:

Not exactly a specific build in mind, but anything that allows you benefit from and chronically drop bursts works well. YOLOFlame for instance.

@Thuggernaut.1250

Hey there, I probably could have made it more clear that I didn’t mean to say that these are super amazing combos, just that they do exist and that saying that Berserker doesn’t fit with base Warrior (I’ve seen it said multiple times by different people) isn’t really true.

Most of the time, where these synergies fall short is as a result of the failings of the bade Warrior. Baseline Fast Hand? Suddenly a hybrid build using the first combo becomes pretty scary, the only huge weakness being the lack of Warrior’s Sprint (I feel that Strength + Defense + Berserker is optimal), and that’s fine. Every build should have some sort of weakness.

BurrTheKing.8571:

@Thuggernaut.1250

Hey there, I probably could have made it more clear that I didn’t mean to say that these are super amazing combos, just that they do exist and that saying that Berserker doesn’t fit with base Warrior (I’ve seen it said multiple times by different people) isn’t really true.

Most of the time, where these synergies fall short is as a result of the failings of the bade Warrior. Baseline Fast Hand? Suddenly a hybrid build using the first combo becomes pretty scary, the only huge weakness being the lack of Warrior’s Sprint (I feel that Strength + Defense + Berserker is optimal), and that’s fine. Every build should have some sort of weakness.

Strength + Defense + Berserker means your adren gain is aweful,the strength of berserker lies in it’s bursting.If you want to make proper use of berserk and it’s bursting Arms is the way to go with Berserkers fury and Furious you have an optimal way of gaining adren even when not connecting to a target.But going into arms means you have to sacrifice another better traitline..and that’s the issue with berserk.no matter what you try you always have to give up something better.

BurrTheKing.8571:

@Thuggernaut.1250

Hey there, I probably could have made it more clear that I didn’t mean to say that these are super amazing combos, just that they do exist and that saying that Berserker doesn’t fit with base Warrior (I’ve seen it said multiple times by different people) isn’t really true.

Most of the time, where these synergies fall short is as a result of the failings of the bade Warrior. Baseline Fast Hand? Suddenly a hybrid build using the first combo becomes pretty scary, the only huge weakness being the lack of Warrior’s Sprint (I feel that Strength + Defense + Berserker is optimal), and that’s fine. Every build should have some sort of weakness.

I definitely see the condi synergies with Berserker, but other than that, it seems pretty self-contained. One could dream up some pretty insane Strength + Arms + Berserker YOLO-Condi builds on paper, but like you had mentioned earlier, giving up Defense and Discipline really hurts.

As nice as baseline Fast Hands would be for all Warriors, I still think giving up Discipline is a hard pill to swallow for Berserkers, because they can take advantage of Burst Mastery more frequently (you mentioned Burst Mastery + Smash Brawler). But Defense is still critical for sPvP, so I can’t countenance giving that up.

The end result brings me to Defense + Discipline + Berserker. But for sPvP, I can’t justify substituting Berserker for Strength, because in the damage department, you lose out on the superior power option without Strength, and you lose valuable condi synergies without either Strength or Arms.

I see the synergies, but problems with both core Warrior and the mostly self-contained nature of Berserker hold them back.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Warrior and Berserker lack many things, but saying they lack synergy simply isn’t true.

Distracting Blows + Body Blow + Skull Grinder

I should probably still include Bloody Roar even though the synergy isn’t as good as before, it can still interrupt though. If you land all of your CC on Mace and interrupt the synergy possibilities are pretty crazy. Oh, you could even use rifle in a build using this cause that has 2 interrupts as well.

The problem is always that you have to give up either Discipline or Defense to take advantage of this synergy.

Rousing Resilience + Outrage/Head Butt/Savage Instinct

How well these complement each other seems to be flying under the radar. Yes, you might be a bit weaker to condis but the healing is still good. You can potentially use Head Butt to break a stun then break that 1 second stun for another heal. It’s sustain that isn’t totally dependent on double Endure Pain, but you can bring that still as well. If you want even more sustain you could bring Dead or Alive as well.

Burst Mastery + Smash Brawler

Very simple, short burst CD and getting adrenaline back from those bursts letting you spam them even more.

So, while this doesn’t mean our class is in a good spot, saying it has no synergy is insulting because it’s clear that these synergies were intended and if not for other issues some builds would be even more powerful than they are now.

What’s most enjoyable about your post Burr, is the reverse psychology involved here. First complimenting the developers on what synergy is prevalent within the Beserker trait line, whilst highlighting what’s missing and provoking more constructive feedback from others.

Thuggernaut.1250:

The end result brings me to Defense + Discipline + Berserker. But for sPvP, I can’t justify substituting Berserker for Strength, because in the damage department, you lose out on the superior power option without Strength, and you lose valuable condi synergies without either Strength or Arms.

I’m not so sure that Berserker is really worse than Strength regarding pure power damage.

+30% damage from Stick and Move and Berserker’s Power + 10% damage (for GS only) + Might stacks from Restorative Strength (and GS crits)

vs.

+7% damage from Always Angry, +7% Ferocity and while in Berserk another +7% Ferocity, +10% damage from Bloody Roar (if taken) and +15% attack speed + Fury and Quickness (although relatively short durations)

Without doing the math I’d assume Strength is better if Berserker’s Power is up, but not when the burst misses. On the second weapon set Berserker may be better anyway.

Picking both Strength and Berserker makes it much easier to have Berserker’s Power constantly up due to bursts on short cooldowns and easier to land/longer range. Combine it with Defense to also make best use of CI and you have a pretty nice synergy. No Fast Hands though…