You say, “FOR THE VITAE!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
Bleed Warrior
the problem is not actually gonna be your build, solo you’ll do fine with just about any build, the problem comes when you are doing group/DE stuff, you wont be the only guy with bleeds and the other classes can stack em faster than you can, which should not be a problem except for the 25 bleed cap, and the fact that in end game DE there are so many glass cannon farming builds which will take down mobs so fast your flurry might not even finish casting and the mob is dead, rendering your bleeds almost useless as the mob wont last long enough.
That being said this is something i noticed in endgame play, through out levelling condition builds are fine and sometimes better since you dun need to stand there and with the warrior’s naturally long bleed ( 8 seconds base for the sword autoattack wtf????) you can do champs ez with your jump in bleed em jump out to recover and with multi mobs you can slice up a whole bunch of em then move on the next bunch and leave the first bunch to bleed to death.
as for pvp, usually condition builds are not as good due to the sheer amount of condition wipe available to classes and for W3, well same logic i think
You might want to tweak your boosted durations a bit.
Flurry won’t benefit from anything between 100% and 150%
Sever Artery and Gash won’t benefit from anything between 113% and 125%
Impale and Riposte won’t benefit from anything between 117% and 125%
So your options would be to either lower it to 117% or boost it to 125%. Since you have a Superior Sigil of Agony, you could swap that for a Major Sigil of Agony and save yourself a bit on the costs?
Also, let’s be honest: the 20% recharge on the 40s cooldown of Bull’s Charge isn’t really a trait well spent. Similarly, Berserker’s Stance is much inferior to Signet of Fury in terms of adrenaline gaining, especially since Signet of Fury will give you 4-5% critical at 80. With Signet of Fury, you can also ditch some of the Adrenaline gain stuff. Signet of Stamina, Signet of Fury and Signet of Rage plus the trait that gives 40 precision per inactive signet and you’ll be opening with 93% crit.
Also, it looks like you misunderstood the way on-crit effects stack. They don’t stack additively, they stack multiplicatively. So instead of 93% chance of bleeding on crit, you get 73.2%. With 65% critrate, that’s 0.4758 bleeds/hit.
And unlike GS, which deals all of its damage on the spot, the bleeding relies on time. And your plan just looks like you’re going to go in, stack bleeds and run out. Well guess what? As soon as you run off, they’ll remove the bleeds and they just wasted your flurry and two of your utility skills.
For a bleed build, you might want to consider adding a rifle as your sidearm, actually. Rifle 1 has a 6s bleed, plus you get Killshot.
Also, I find it a bit ridiculous that you plan to mainly use Flurry as your source of bleed stacks, but you’re not even mentioning Opportunist, which is basically a free Fury on your Flurry. And that would boost your crit rate to 85%, which would up your bleeds/hit from 0.4758 to 0.6222. That’s 30% more bleeds. After all, you cannot expect to always have Signet of Rage’s Fury up, considering that it only gives you a 50% uptime.
Also: Free Fury On Your Flurry is now my new favorite tongue twister.
(edited by Olba.5376)
Use sword war horn and voila 100% fury up time, I use yo jacks build in tis forum to play bleeds and I don’t see a reason to go two swords over s/wh
80 Guardian, 80 Warrior, 80 Thief
[AVTR] FA
[AVTR] FA
Use sword war horn and voila 100% fury up time, I use yo jacks build in tis forum to play bleeds and I don’t see a reason to go two swords over s/wh
It’s not the Warhorn that gives you the Fury. It’s the traits. More specifically the +20-30% condition duration, FGJ and SoR.
The +30% condition duration from Tactics makes a combined SoR and FGJ give you 49.4s initial Fury. Before that, FGJ will be out of cooldown at the 25s mark, at which point your SoR still needs 35s to be out of cooldown. With the second FGJ, you’re up to a total of 59.8s of Fury, with 34.8s remaining. So you get another FGJ before you run out, after which SoR is already out of cooldown and the loop goes to the beginning. I would know, I did this with a 0/20/20/30/0 spec running any combination of longbow, rifle, axe/axe, axe/shield, mace/shield, mace/mace, axe/mace, hammer.
Adding in any major trait, such as Lung Capacity or Signet Mastery just makes it more consistent and easier to manage. Heck, you get perma-fury with +12% condition duration without any traits at all. So you could actually run any trait set you want and use Runes of Citadel or Runes of Rage.
What Warhorn gives you is permanent Swiftness and access to Vigor. With Tactics, you’re likely to be using Empowered, which means that these boons give you even more damage.
What you did not mention is that the Swiftness and Vigor from Warhorn work in great synergy with a bleed spec.
You could use a shield as a defensive piece, plus the funk of Flurry + Shield Bash + Unsuspecting Foe.
(edited by Olba.5376)
You might want to tweak your boosted durations a bit.
Flurry won’t benefit from anything between 100% and 150%
Sever Artery and Gash won’t benefit from anything between 113% and 125%
Impale and Riposte won’t benefit from anything between 117% and 125%
blank stare
you lost me here. expound?
good tongue twister though. and good info, much appreciated.
You say, “FOR THE VITAE!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
You might want to tweak your boosted durations a bit.
Flurry won’t benefit from anything between 100% and 150%
Sever Artery and Gash won’t benefit from anything between 113% and 125%
Impale and Riposte won’t benefit from anything between 117% and 125%blank stare
you lost me here. expound?
good tongue twister though. and good info, much appreciated.
Bleeds only tick once every second. Thus, any decimals you have on your bleeds are wasted.
You have a total of +120% condition duration. That makes Flurry at 2s into 4.4s, Sever Artery / Gash at 8s into 17.6s and Impale/Riposte at 12s into 26.4s.
Now, we round those decimals both down and up to 4-5 for Flurry, 17-18 for Sever/Gash and 26-27 for Impale/Riposte.
Finally, we divide those by the original duration and we get:
Flurry: 4/2 = 100%, 5/2 = 150%
Sever Artery / Gash: 17/8 = 112.5%, 18/8 = 125%
Impale/Riposte: 26/12 = 116.7%, 27/12 = 125%
Now we round the 112.5% up to 113% and 116.7% up to 117%. And we’re up to the figures I presented. Anything between those figures yields a decimal into your bleed duration, but since bleeds only tick on even seconds, anything that falls into that range doesn’t increase your damage at all.
With that said, your best options are:
1. Drop the Superior Sigil for a Major Sigil
2. Change from 3/6 and 3/6 runes to 2/6, 2/6 and pick up 2 more runes for +5% condition duration
I suppose the next question is whether changing the runes gives you more damage or less damage. Obviously it wouldn’t change your Flurry, but if that’s all you’re concerned with you could drop your condition durations all the way down to +100%.
By changing 1 Rune of Krait and 1 Rune of Afflicted to two Runes of Centaur, your numbers change into:
Flurry: From 4,795.2 to 4,531.2
Sever Artery/Gash: 1,698.3 to 1,699.2
Impale/Riposte: 10,389.6 to 10,195.2
So actually no, changing your runes for longer duration is bad. Going for the shorter duration on your Sigil will only have you a bit on the costs, with no downside in terms of damage.
(edited by Olba.5376)
Pve it’s fine.
PvP, it won’t work well. Mainly due to the fact everyone else has great condition cleansers/swappers. Every single class can lose conditions really well whilst damaging you.
All but one….the warrior. So a warrior bleed spec is most effective against…other warriors.
Playing this is making me realize there is a reason I have played a tank since before there was a ‘tank’, starting in Asheron’s Call in 2001. A heavy armor, defensive/protective sword character just fits my personality and playstyle so well.
Despite how different (for me) and interesting this is to play, it’s just SO kitten squishy… it’s very frustrating to not have that extra measure of avoidance and mitigation that I’m used to. I have a Guardian tank that I really enjoy, it’s bliss when i log back on to him.
I’m just not a DPS player. I want to be able to charge into a crowd and take the hits as I wear them down. I’m going to try a more tanky Shout Warrior build (like Imbemboo’s) and see how that works for me.
You say, “FOR THE VITAE!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
Playing this is making me realize there is a reason I have played a tank since before there was a ‘tank’, starting in Asheron’s Call in 2001. A heavy armor, defensive/protective sword character just fits my personality and playstyle so well.
Despite how different (for me) and interesting this is to play, it’s just SO kitten squishy… it’s very frustrating to not have that extra measure of avoidance and mitigation that I’m used to. I have a Guardian tank that I really enjoy, it’s bliss when i log back on to him.
No matter which build, if you neglect defense, you’ll be squishy and die easy. If you’re not a very mobile/fast reaction player, then i can see why you feel safe with a guardian.
And i’d like to remind you, there are more builds then purely bleed (without defense) and a shout build for warrior.
Retsu ~ Inner Monkey [IM] ~ Piken Square
I’ve changed direction a bit and have made my Warrior more tanky, still with two 1h swords, and then a mace/shield for more defense. Having a blast. My survivability is not on par with my tank-specced Guardian but i wouldn’t expect or want him to be.
Traits are now:
Strength: 0
Arms: 10: III – Deep Cuts
Defense: 20: III – Sure-Footed, IX – Shield Master
Tactics: 30: I – Leg Specialist, VIII – Lung Capacity, XII – Vigorous Shouts
Discipline: 10: IV – Inspiring Shouts
Skills are Mending, “For Great Justice!”, Berserker’s Stance, Balanced Stance, Signet of Rage. If I feel I need or need to provide more healing I’ll slot three shouts.
Gear is two Berserker’s swords, sigils on those Earth and Agony, second set is Knight’s Mace and Shield, sigils are Blood and Water (experimenting with Blood/Blood to see if there is any advantage)
Trinkets are Guild defender Backpack with a Sapphire jewel, jewelry is all Sapphire
Armor is all Knight’s Draconic, runes are 4/6 Krait and 2/6 Afflicted
It’s pretty fun, I use Berserker’s Stance to keep my adrenalin up before I start a fight, start by throwing a sword to get the bleeds going, Risposte and let them hit me, Flurry, FGJ and Berserker’s Stance, auto attack until Flurry is up, repeat. Go to shield if it’s a tough fight, my mindset is stay alive and do some direct damage plus keep bleeds going, but try to stack as much bleed as possible, focus on getting Flurry off on the CD. On a Champ I’ll get Flurry up, jump in, Flurry, roll back out, toss the sword when it’s up while I wait for Flurry & adrenalin to regen.
This is a hell of a lot better build for a ‘Bleed Warrior’ than my first pass, glasscannon is not for me.
And no Retsu, I am not a mobile player, I’m a tank at heart, stand and fight, dodge rolling in my opinion is a ridiculous and arbitrary mechanic.
You say, “FOR THE VITAE!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
(edited by Chazcon.1867)
@Chazcon
I agree with you. I tried the glass cannon path too and I just can’t do it. I hated how it felt like I was wearing paper armor. Then I started creating builds based on my preferred role, a tank.
I don’t wanna live a thousand years. If I just live through today, that’ll be enough.
after playing as a condition warrior in WvW for a bit, I have to say either just go for straight condition damage increase or regular burst damage.
Condition duration is mehhhh at best because almost everyone can cleanse out your stacks before they take decent effect.
I know the sight of seeing getting 20+ stacks of bleed by yourself looks amazing as the enemy is just a fountain of 100s pouring out, but its still only about 2000 damage per second, fantastic against PVE mobs but against players you are far far better off for trying to squeeze in the more damage per second, even at the cost of duration.
lv80 with skills fully unlocked, warrior, elementalist and engineer
lv80 Necromancer, all professional skills unlocked, working on the final norn elite skills.
lv80 Necromancer, all professional skills unlocked, working on the final norn elite skills.
(edited by LieutenantGoogle.7326)
Well I don’t PvP so I’m not worried about that. It’s a lot of fun in PvE.
You say, “FOR THE VITAE!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
Ru says, “CHAZ!”
Simply Red tells you, “I am SO not recovering your body!”
Currently running a +condition duration build, with 30 Strength, 25 Arms and 15 Discipline; +125% bleed duration in sword/sword, and +115% bleed duration in rifle, with +50% condition duration on all my other conditions.
It’s sufficiently more powerful than my older bleed build which I was running back in September (before trying toughness/power/precision for most of October) that I really don’t feel the same lack of effect the older (and tankier) bleed build displayed.
The older build was better for tanking dungeons (25 Arms, 30 Defense, 15 Discipline), but outside of that was relatively inferior, such that I was already actively seeking another build without any sort of benchmark to compare against.
This current build is substantially more effective in WvW, and might even run decently in sPvP or tPvP, though I’m a little hesitant to try it in the latter formats because I don’t want to part with Pain Inverter.
I know the sight of seeing getting 20+ stacks of bleed by yourself looks amazing as the enemy is just a fountain of 100s pouring out, but its still only about 2000 damage per second, fantastic against PVE mobs but against players you are far far better off for trying to squeeze in the more damage per second, even at the cost of duration.
That’s certainly something I would consider if I was to try my current build in sPvP/tPvP.
(edited by Ansultares.1567)
the problem is not actually gonna be your build, solo you’ll do fine with just about any build, the problem comes when you are doing group/DE stuff, you wont be the only guy with bleeds and the other classes can stack em faster than you can, which should not be a problem except for the 25 bleed cap, and the fact that in end game DE there are so many glass cannon farming builds which will take down mobs so fast your flurry might not even finish casting and the mob is dead, rendering your bleeds almost useless as the mob wont last long enough.
That being said this is something i noticed in endgame play, through out levelling condition builds are fine and sometimes better since you dun need to stand there and with the warrior’s naturally long bleed ( 8 seconds base for the sword autoattack wtf????) you can do champs ez with your jump in bleed em jump out to recover and with multi mobs you can slice up a whole bunch of em then move on the next bunch and leave the first bunch to bleed to death.as for pvp, usually condition builds are not as good due to the sheer amount of condition wipe available to classes and for W3, well same logic i think
What he said, my bleed warrior is on hold untill the bleed cap gets raised, right now it is worthless unless your plan on soloing everything including events.