Guild Wars 2

Not full QQ just wondering it is a little too much for us. We have the second weakest access o boons in the game (thief being number one). getting boon stripped hits a a little too hard Imho especially in PvP. Thoughts?

Oh, don’t you know? We’re supposed to rely on our sturdy body and our teammates for help with this sort of thing! HURR DURR DURR.

Sil.4560:

Oh, don’t you know? We’re supposed to rely on our sturdy body and our teammates for help with this sort of thing! HURR DURR DURR.

Despite all of that rage, you are still just a Warrior in Guild Wars 2…

Also, I can’t seem to figure out if that is directed at the OP or at the developers (or quite possibly both o.O?)

hahaha.. stolen signet of rage could possibly be a game breaker.

I was mocking the developers’ description of the warrior class.

It’s an elite that is merely a performance increase. Aside from it being the most boring elite in the game, thieves can experience it too with Larcenous Strike! Sharing is caring.

Zayle.7253:

It’s an elite that is merely a performance increase. Aside from it being the most boring elite in the game, thieves can experience it too with Larcenous Strike! Sharing is caring.

But wait, that’s not all! Switch to the Rampage elite NOW and grace your thief opponents with the gift of 20s stability! Nullify all your CC with a single skill! Hurry now, this offer is available only for a limited* time!

*limited may mean endless

Considering the options, you’re luckier if they only get stolen. ;P

Though I’ve honestly never tried converting the stability that comes with some transform skills… I assume it doesn’t reapply, but I rarely see people using the things in the first place. It would be hilariously disappointing though… transform, gain stability → suddenly, fear!

LameFox.6349:

Considering the options, you’re luckier if they only get stolen. ;P

Though I’ve honestly never tried converting the stability that comes with some transform skills… I assume it doesn’t reapply, but I rarely see people using the things in the first place. It would be hilariously disappointing though… transform, gain stability -> suddenly, fear!

Works on dagger storm too. I usually rip it off thieves with my mesmer and then someone CCs them out of dagger storm. Necros could have an even funner time with it.

Yamsandjams.3267:

LameFox.6349:

Considering the options, you’re luckier if they only get stolen. ;P

Though I’ve honestly never tried converting the stability that comes with some transform skills… I assume it doesn’t reapply, but I rarely see people using the things in the first place. It would be hilariously disappointing though… transform, gain stability -> suddenly, fear!

Works on dagger storm too. I usually rip it off thieves with my mesmer and then someone CCs them out of dagger storm. Necros could have an even funner time with it.

I’m pretty sure the necro ranged attacks on axe and sceptre are some sort of telekinesis and don’t count as projectiles (at least this is my experience in PvE and it’s how the animations look, haven’t hit any players with a reflection skill up yet that I recall), and then there’s marks too, so idk… I might prefer them to keep whirling there for a bit. I don’t think it makes them any tougher…

Necro’s focus 5 rips 3 boons and if you are a zerker necro, crits for 2kish…and chills the enemy.

Hilarious against a thief. One second they’re spinning, the next they are frozen, feared…dead.

Zayle.7253:

It’s an elite that is merely a performance increase. Aside from it being the most boring elite in the game, thieves can experience it too with Larcenous Strike! Sharing is caring.

Just throwing out a CRAZY thought here…

If you see a Thief wielding a sword in mainhand…maybe…not use SoR?

That would totally work, right? It’s not like Sword Thieves have pretty average damage or anything that would require you to pop SoR to bring down.

That Larceny strike hits for like 1.5k to crits 3k. Idk if you were fighting a non damage sword thief, but no thief weapon hits softly

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

That Larceny strike hits for like 1.5k to crits 3k. Idk if you were fighting a non damage sword thief, but no thief weapon hits softly

4.5k single target is laughable at best for one skill that “hits hard”. Hundred Blades easily hits for 15k against anything and everything in a 180 degree cone in front of you, while most Thieves are running MAYBE 14k HP without full zerker gear. I fail to see the problem here.

Hundred blades is over 3.5s though =/. Using your numbers that’s half the dps. It cleaves sure, but that’s only situationally useful (like against rezzers)

Not to mention you can’t move during 100b, do not evade attacks, and steal no boons.

Bull Rush + Frenzy + Hundred Blades = Dead target. Three skill uses just like 3 + 3 + 3 spam for S/D Thieves.

Oh but wait, dodging and evading is NOW a viable answer, amiright?

McFribble.2349:

Bull Rush + Frenzy + Hundred Blades = Dead target. Three skill uses just like 3 + 3 + 3 spam for S/D Thieves.

Oh but wait, dodging and evading is NOW a viable answer, amiright?

I hope you do realize that you compared a spam able weapon skill to a 40s CD combo that uses 2 utility slots..

peter.9024:

McFribble.2349:

Bull Rush + Frenzy + Hundred Blades = Dead target. Three skill uses just like 3 + 3 + 3 spam for S/D Thieves.

Oh but wait, dodging and evading is NOW a viable answer, amiright?

I hope you do realize that you compared a spam able weapon skill to a 40s CD combo that uses 2 utility slots..

I hope you realize initiative isn’t an infinite pool that can be tapped into at any time for any amount. The fact of the matter is that a Warrior can setup 15k cone AoE damage in less than 4 seconds. A thief can get two of his 3 Larcenous Strikes off in that time and only hit for MAYBE 8k at most against a single target.

Yeah, they are comparable and the Warrior wins out in this scenario.

McFribble.2349:

I hope you realize initiative isn’t an infinite pool that can be tapped into at any time for any amount. The fact of the matter is that a Warrior can setup 15k cone AoE damage in less than 4 seconds. A thief can get two of his 3 Larcenous Strikes off in that time and only hit for MAYBE 8k at most against a single target.

Yeah, they are comparable and the Warrior wins out in this scenario.

how about try actually hitting those bullrush combo!!
you talk about dmg, when the thief can steal boons and dodge at the same time,,
thief got everything on their weapon skill, stealth… dodge.. teleport,,. spamable combos. and most of their combos are really ease to land!!
the thieves that asking pistol whip dmg to be on par with hundred blades are an even bigger joke than you are!! how a ranged weapon that is used within stealth vs the mele hundred blades… pshhh
you have no idea how important that 2 utility slot that a warrior has to sacrifice in order to do this stupid combos.. utility slots are the life and death of a warrior..
don’t get me started on the 90 sec cooldown on endure pain.!

Sorry, but an attack like Hundred Blades only requires utility because people are looking to avoid it at all costs. THAT is how powerful Hundred Blades is, and it can cleave through anyone near the Warrior.

And yes, Thieves get teleports. They would flat out DIE without them. They may have a couple too many to play with, but don’t complain because a class is functioning as intended. The best part of having both a Thief and a Warrior is that I actually know a thing or two about playing BOTH classes.

Thieves are no doubt a better overall PvP class, but just like tier lists in fighting games, it means jack all in the hands of someone who know what they are doing and how to punish a specific class. Thieves drop like a knife through microwaved butter, even when geared/traited for sustain. You just have to know WHEN to hit them.

McFribble.2349:

Sorry, but an attack like Hundred Blades only requires utility because people are looking to avoid it at all costs. THAT is how powerful Hundred Blades is, and it can cleave through anyone near the Warrior.

And yes, Thieves get teleports. They would flat out DIE without them. They may have a couple too many to play with, but don’t complain because a class is functioning as intended. The best part of having both a Thief and a Warrior is that I actually know a thing or two about playing BOTH classes.

Thieves are no doubt a better overall PvP class, but just like tier lists in fighting games, it means jack all in the hands of someone who know what they are doing and how to punish a specific class. Thieves drop like a knife through microwaved butter, even when geared/traited for sustain. You just have to know WHEN to hit them.

You are joking, right?

Thieves would die without teleport? No..they have stealth..why would they need teleports, too. What kinda crap is that? Lets give the only melee class in the game that has zero problem closing in on a target and initiating combat a teleport hack! Um..no..
I can understand that people who play thief classes might need that because their class just isn’t carrying them hard enough!

Thieves functioning as intended? Wow..funniest line I read all month. I vaguely remember Anet saying that they did not want the thief class to stealth repeatedly during combat or become a perma stealth class..so it wasn’t what they intended. As for them changing their tone later..well if your in big dodo and realize you made a big mistake that you don’t have the ability to fix then deny deny deny. I’m sure some thief players think that their class is as um intended and what they are doing is mad skillz, bro!

Boon ripping is not too much for a warrior. It is a MUST. Let us compare:

Let us compare with some other classes that have had these abilities since launch-mesmers/necros- or got them now even though they are already OP-thieves-:

Thieves: Have a WEAPON skill with ZERO cooldown that STEALS two boons..not increases damage..not removes boons..STEALS them
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Larcenous_Strike
This uses 4 initiative in total and thieves have 12-15 initiative with it ticking or replenished with some other traits while it is being used. That means they can spam it 3 times in a row or more. Also, notice that the 1st attack of that chain EVADES and the 2nd is UNBLOCKABLE…wow..make my class carry me more please, Anet! -as intended I’m sure!-

Mesmers: Instant AOE complete boon removal and condition removal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field

Necros: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon enough said

How can Anyone after that say that boon ripping is ‘too much’ for a warrior? Maybe if you are new to the class and have no idea what other classes are capable of.

And if you think that destruction of the empowered is good..here is why it isn’t:

DOE can’t even break through protection.

Just a reminder about protection:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection
DOE is useless against a guardian whom it should be the most effective against. I’ll explain it again -really need to create a word document for it-:
Save yourselves shout: One of the most ridiculous abilities in the game with the Highest number of boons per ability in the game on a guardian: 7 boons.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Save_Yourselves!%22

-So that is 3×7=21% extra damage. One of those boons is protection so 33% damage reduction-21% increased damage= 12% reduction of damage.

-So you can’t even break through the protection.

-Also, regen is running and they have heals firing off so its now even worse.

-Retaliation is up and so your hurting yourself more with this ability.
Ele? 4 boons up including protection? 33-12=21% damage reduction with DOE.
Engy? Same thing when they have protection up.

So in every case scenario you can’t even break through the protection.

Also, it needs boons to be up. We have traits that give us passive increase in damage all the time which you can spec into and are 10% flat increase regardless of boons so close to 12% which is the equivalent of DOE on a 4 boon target.

I tried it extensively and it does jack kitten against guardians who know how to face roll through their buttons. You still end up backing off when they pop their ‘Save yourselves’ shout. So basically its pointless.

I agree with most of what XII said. I don’t find SY! as OP as most believe simply because it’s either OP in a 1v1 situation or it’s a death wish in a zerg situation. 10 seconds in WvW or 5 in SPVP is solid for a 60 second cd.

Regardless, an ability that the thief can spam 3-4 times and steal all if not 6 of those boons in a short time while evading damage and dealing solid damage is a little over the top. So, now the thief has 0-1 initiative (or more depending on how deep into Acrobatics they went), now he can use his great auto attack that easily crits 2-4k per chain. Thief S/D is in a solid if not elevated place right now and I kinda wish I had not deleted my thief now, as my weapons of choice were S/D but Flanking strike was never reliable.

I find it very hard to believe that Warriors are putting themselves in a potision to have their Boons taken from them in the first place. A S/D Thief is designed to steal boons. He does little else. So a common sense counter to this is to NOT use skills that offer boons against a build designed to steal them.

…And that’s it. You just countered the S/D Thief. Instead of Frenzy, use Stomp and laugh as you knock that Thief out of Refuge.

If you don’t like the idea of NOT using Signet of Rage against a build that is meant to counter the effects that specific skill happens to produce, take the banner. Banners have a great mechanic where the boons last a short time, but restack every few seconds. The Thief will rip your boons only for them to last 3 seconds, and yours are constantly reapplied. At the very worst, it keeps both you and the Thief on equal footing with what boons you have.

Or again, you can go the common sense route and simply adapt to your opposition by not rely so heavily on Boons in the wake of CC tools that will make a S/D either get swarmed by your teammates or run away with his tail between his legs.

McFribble.2349:

I find it very hard to believe that Warriors are putting themselves in a potision to have their Boons taken from them in the first place. A S/D Thief is designed to steal boons. He does little else. So a common sense counter to this is to NOT use skills that offer boons against a build designed to steal them.

…And that’s it. You just countered the S/D Thief. Instead of Frenzy, use Stomp and laugh as you knock that Thief out of Refuge.

If you don’t like the idea of NOT using Signet of Rage against a build that is meant to counter the effects that specific skill happens to produce, take the banner. Banners have a great mechanic where the boons last a short time, but restack every few seconds. The Thief will rip your boons only for them to last 3 seconds, and yours are constantly reapplied. At the very worst, it keeps both you and the Thief on equal footing with what boons you have.

Or again, you can go the common sense route and simply adapt to your opposition by not rely so heavily on Boons in the wake of CC tools that will make a S/D either get swarmed by your teammates or run away with his tail between his legs.

I like how you forgot to mention the 6k damage that comes with each larc strike and the evasion and auto-homing that opens L strike. I also enjoy how you seem to forget that usually thieves attack when you are already in a fight. So am I not supposed to use my elite skill at all for fear of a stealthed thief teleporting and instantly stealing my 60 sec CD skill?

I want the ability to steal a thieve’s dagger storm or a mesmer’s timewarp or a guardian’s tome of courage. Nope. It’s totally fine for a thief to steal a warrior’s signet of rage at the low low cost of 4(?) intiative.

If you don’t like the idea of NOT using Signet of Rage against a build that is meant to counter the effects that specific skill happens to produce, take the banner. Banners have a great mechanic where the boons last a short time, but restack every few seconds. The Thief will rip your boons only for them to last 3 seconds, and yours are constantly reapplied. At the very worst, it keeps both you and the Thief on equal footing with what boons you have.

wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahaha

he just brought up banners I’m laughing so hard I’m starting to cry now

even people who play thieves have to find this funny

Al Bundy I just thought I’d put your post(s) together into one since this is Not AOL….
__________________

McFribble.2349:

If you don’t like the idea of NOT using Signet of Rage against a build that is meant to counter the effects that specific skill happens to produce, take the banner. Banners have a great mechanic where the boons last a short time, but restack every few seconds. The Thief will rip your boons only for them to last 3 seconds, and yours are constantly reapplied. At the very worst, it keeps both you and the Thief on equal footing with what boons you have.

wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahaha

he just brought up banners I’m laughing so hard I’m starting to cry now

even people who play thieves have to find this funny

I didn’t correct your grammar, punctuation, ect. You can pay me to do that. Thanks and have a nice day.

@McFribble: You clearly got no pvp experience….I own a Thief, ranger, warrior, guardian and owned some other classes in the past but I constantly delete characters due to boredom. Now, in your mind, people can get killed by 100b. Fact this can happen, but only against unskilled players. Now let say I see a warrior coming with his huge kitten sword. First thing I see is the warrior turning to the side in bull rush, in case you didn’t notice, warriors got the stupidest and easiest to predict animations in the game. Thus I dodge, he HB the air since most if not all warriors I seen seem to auto hit HB as their activate frenzy. And yeah there he is wasting his utilities and his elite and his one and only good CD in GS. + giving a free +25% damage on his sorry glass kitten . Yum yum.

Now, you bring up banners and not using elites. Thiefs are a class that can almost perma stealth, can blind, can deal heavy damage and can dis engange and re engage as they like with enough escape mechanism to fight in their terms all the time.

Boon stealing, boon conversion and the rest are just flaws created by the game’s lazy style design. Instead of giving each class unique buffs and debuffs. The game offers boons and conditions that are the same for everyone. Now the game was promoted as a no trilogy game, yet the game does own a trilogy of sorts. Classes who got access to protection and heavier heals are tanks while the rest are forced to be glass cannons in other to do anything. This creates a massive unbalance such as the D/D elementalist abomination. Or a Guardian who specs in boon duration + healing making them pretty much Immortal. Now the ability to debuff someone is ok for a class that relays on stealing buffs while dealing little damage and taking medium damage, now if you take the warrior in one hand, we got no escape mechanism, our close up skills are either bugged or simply don’t perform due to lame animations, we got no sustain, no unique boons, our utilities all give boons and that’s it unless you count stances which are either useless or have a super long CD.

Our heals aren’t in par with any other class and our glass cannon build can’t deal damage for kitten outside pve. So the thief a class that was going to be my main at first got it easy, why? Heaviest damage in the game, easy control over the fight, teleport, blind and stealth. Thus, I can ignore damage in better ways than Aegis can, I can l;eave the fight when I want and even during downed state chances are I can drop the warrior move away and take him down before he goes frenzy, if he goes vengeance a stealth at the right time will give you enough time to watch him die seconds after. So yeah, boon stealing is just a joke, specially against warriors.

As for the warrior goes, I pve on mine. WvW I love my ranger, even if pets suck due to bad aI. Spvp I usually log my thief if I want to troll, my guardian if I want to face roll or my ranger if I feel like going Tpvp. So in the case of warriors, if you want to pvp you are better off with anything else lol. Oh I just remembered when game launched and every single thread in this forum was NERF 100B. Then people learn to dodge bull charge or dodge right after the hits start to land and the forums transformed into WHY WARRIOR SUCKS and FIX THE WARRIOR.

McFribble.2349:

I find it very hard to believe that Warriors are putting themselves in a potision to have their Boons taken from them in the first place. A S/D Thief is designed to steal boons. He does little else. So a common sense counter to this is to NOT use skills that offer boons against a build designed to steal them.

I’ve always ran my Thief as S/D, and there’s something else you’re neglecting to mention about them.
They have the best, most frequent access to stun in the entire game, especially when combined with Runes of the Mesmer and Sleight of Hand, which stuns on steal.
So no, deciding not to use your Signet of Rage doesn’t counter that thief.

Thieves are full out broken OP.
I know; I play one.

peter.9024:

McFribble.2349:

Bull Rush + Frenzy + Hundred Blades = Dead target. Three skill uses just like 3 + 3 + 3 spam for S/D Thieves.

Oh but wait, dodging and evading is NOW a viable answer, amiright?

I hope you do realize that you compared a spam able weapon skill to a 40s CD combo that uses 2 utility slots..

And roots you, and is the most telegraphed ability in the game. Anything else we missed?

And in what kittened world is the 15k damage the benchmark?! It’ll hit that much against a glass cannon, if you are full zerker and divinity, with 60%+ crit damage and they are dumb enough to eat the entire 3.5 second combo…

I do not know when this became 100B vs sword thief damage. Fact is spamable skills are always a problem. When You Larcenous Strike someone with weak access to boons and you keep all that mobility plus stealth for many classes it is a no win situation. My suggestion isn’t so much that thief be nerfed but a solution be found.

ATM 100B isn’t fit to be brought up in real debate. GS is very clunky and it is very hard to land 100B.

I think some misconceptions have been given that you can LS all day long. Frankly you can’t. However, it can give a sword thief who already has an on demand stun breaker, stun, and decent sustained dps (land sword chain 3 to understand) a greater advantage.

McFribble.2349:

Just throwing out a CRAZY thought here…

If you see a Thief wielding a sword in mainhand…maybe…not use SoR?

That would totally work, right? It’s not like Sword Thieves have pretty average damage or anything that would require you to pop SoR to bring down.

I guess I can throw another CRAZY thought back at you. What if he had two weapon sets?

McFribble.2349:

Bull Rush + Frenzy + Hundred Blades = Dead target. Three skill uses just like 3 + 3 + 3 spam for S/D Thieves.

Oh but wait, dodging and evading is NOW a viable answer, amiright?

That build doesn’t work anymore, and even if it did it would only work every 60 seconds when the skills are off cooldown. It’s hilarious seeing a thief sympathizer making thieves look like victims to the all-powerful HUNDRED BLADES WARRIOR! Balthazaar forbid you use one of your many blinds or stunbreakers or even a DODGE to avoid this unforgiving 3.5 second onslaught of RAW DAMAGE!. The fact that you brought up the old 100B warrior build really shows you don’t play a warrior in SPvP.

As a rank 20 SPvP warrior, the only thieves that aren’t a real threat are the clumsy or slow reaction thieves that don’t have any condition removal or stunbreakers for when I tie them up with bolas or bull’s charge them for a non-frenzied hundred blades. Most have plenty of escapes or blinds to run off to set up some burst damage. A backstabbing thief will never have to worry about a forward cone melee channel skill anyways.

McFribble.2349:

I find it very hard to believe that Warriors are putting themselves in a potision to have their Boons taken from them in the first place. A S/D Thief is designed to steal boons. He does little else. So a common sense counter to this is to NOT use skills that offer boons against a build designed to steal them.

…And that’s it. You just countered the S/D Thief. Instead of Frenzy, use Stomp and laugh as you knock that Thief out of Refuge.

If you don’t like the idea of NOT using Signet of Rage against a build that is meant to counter the effects that specific skill happens to produce, take the banner. Banners have a great mechanic where the boons last a short time, but restack every few seconds. The Thief will rip your boons only for them to last 3 seconds, and yours are constantly reapplied. At the very worst, it keeps both you and the Thief on equal footing with what boons you have.

Or again, you can go the common sense route and simply adapt to your opposition by not rely so heavily on Boons in the wake of CC tools that will make a S/D either get swarmed by your teammates or run away with his tail between his legs.

I dunno what to say..you just blew my mind..lol..

I think Al Bundy summed up the appropriate reply to your post.