Guild Wars 2

So, I see a lot of whine going on regarding Rush. As a Warrior main, I feel the pain of having dropped some mobility, but I also understand why the movement across all similar skills was nerfed via the swiftness change.

Were we too fast before?
IMHO, Yes. Rush was great at engaging, but TOO good at disengaging.

Are we too slow now?
Again IMHO, Yes. Rush is now poor at disengaging, which would be fine, except is equally bad at engaging.

Run, Run, as fast as you can?
See, Rush was being used as a pure movement skill prior to the J23rd patch. It was being used to disengage more than engage. This is for a number of reasons: Rush was highly telegraphed and easily dodged. It also frequently missed due to the buggy ‘homing’ nature.

However it still served as a decent chasing mechanism. It didn’t hit very often but it does have decent damage when it does hit, and most importantly, it did do an excellent job of closing big gaps.

It’s worth mentioning that Ride the Lightning had a similar problem in the past. We all know how that ended. While the solution worked mechanically, Ele’s were/are not happy with the outcome.

Reducing the Divorce Rate
So, IMHO, the real problem is in nerfing our disengage tool, Warriors also took the same nerf to their engage tool. So how do we ensure Rush is still functional as an engage without becoming OP as a disengage? Well, we could make it so Rush only works on targeted foes, or that, like RTL, it has a double CD if it doesn’t hit, but both of these solutions are likely to upset the player base. They are examples of hard limits, forceful changes that tend to upset people, and reduce fun.

Run for Fun
So there’s no fix then, right? Wrong! Let’s explore a few options of soft limits. Whereas a hard limit simply disallows something, a soft limit simply encourages, rewarding proper use without directly forbidding unintended use. (You could argue that RTLs change qualifies as soft, but the heavy-handed application; doubling the existing CD on an existing skill, generally negates this sentiment).

What a Rush
The first and most obvious change I’d suggest is a drastic change to how Rush works fundamentally.

Right now it’s a long channel, during which the Warrior has about +50% movement speed (estimated). Alongside someone running with Swiftness +33% movement speed, the difference is rather negligible. This is made even worse by the pre-cast pause, and the post-cast pause, each of which causes the Warrior to lose a split-second worth of movement. This just wont do. Warriors need to be FAST to chase down those fleeing cowards. Think of a Thief teleporting with Steal.

Now, Rush as a teleport is a cool fix, and mechanically would solve the problem of lacking engage speed, but it’s not really very Warrior-like, is it. What would be ideal, then? IMHO, a super fast, sliding strike to/through our target. The overall distance covered would remain the same (1200) but that distance would be covered in a much much shorter time. Picture a channel time of 0.5, as opposed to the current lumbering 2 second channel time.

Run for the Hills
So now Rush is quick and accurate enough to actually strike foes. The range is unchanged, but the fast execution means it’ll see more use to close a gap in combat. It will also be a moderate increase in burst mobility.

But that doesn’t address Warriors using it to flee. Remember, we want to give Warriors who engage with Rush a gold star, but we DONT want to totally remove it as a disengage, just prevent it from outperforming it’s engage functionality.

In other words, a Warrior using Rush to escape should never outrun a Warrior using Rush to chase him.

One option is a variant of the RTL treatment. Base cooldown up to 25 seconds from 20. However, every strike you land on a foe (with any melee weapon) reduces the Rush cooldown by 1 second. This means you will have a hefty 25s cooldown when using it to travel, but the CD can easily be 15-20s in a battle.

Additionally, Rush should apply cripple for 3s on hit, to slow down fleeing foes. This will have a minimal impact on enemies who want to engage the Warrior in melee, but hamper those trying to Kite or Escape.

/ideas
Well, I’m spent for now, suggest your own or critique my suggestions here. Try to keep the discussion constructive!

Assuming this mobility nerf won’t ever be reverted, all that needs to be changed imo is to reduce the cast time of Rush to 1.5 seconds instead of 2 seconds, but keep the same distance traveled at 1200. The same should be done for any other movement skill for all other classes that travel a distance greater than 600 (by this I mean, reducing the cast times but keeping the distance traveled).

Heya
[Well, we could make it so Rush only works on targeted foes,] I hope you know that some players also do some solo dungeons and other PvE stuff…
This is PVP/PVE/WVW game !

Capito.2046:

Heya
[Well, we could make it so Rush only works on targeted foes,] I hope you know that some players also do some solo dungeons and other PvE stuff…
This is PVP/PVE/WVW game !

Uh, did you read more than the half-sentence you replied to? Here’s the relevant section in it’s entirety:

Dand.8231:

Well, we could make it so Rush only works on targeted foes, or that, like RTL, it has a double CD if it doesn’t hit, but both of these solutions are likely to upset the player base. They are examples of hard limits, forceful changes that tend to upset people, and reduce fun.

If you spend a moment re-reading, you’ll see I am clearly against the idea of making it only work on targeted foes. I’m addressing the possibility, explaining why it’s a poor idea, and then later in my post, providing superior ideas.

If you’re going to arbitrarily snip my posts to completely alter the meaning, at least have some fun with it…

Well, we could… …reduce fun.

:D

Purple Miku.7032:

Assuming this mobility nerf won’t ever be reverted, all that needs to be changed imo is to reduce the cast time of Rush to 1.5 seconds instead of 2 seconds, but keep the same distance traveled at 1200. The same should be done for any other movement skill for all other classes that travel a distance greater than 600 (by this I mean, reducing the cast times but keeping the distance traveled).

Pretty much this.

The distance covered won’t be quite the same as the swiftness effect pre-patch, but the speed will actually make the warrior Rush.

Though, I want to add that GS3 can stay as is, to keep the GS mobility from getting too high like before but making it more damaging since GS3 hits more for its smaller distance traveled.

….Then I think the only weak link on the GS is GS4 because projectiles are really really cool in this game.

rush in PvP was never a good mobility skill, unless you are talking about wvw, game is not balanced around wvw balance…

lighter.2708:

rush in PvP was never a good mobility skill, unless you are talking about wvw, game is not balanced around wvw balance…

At this point GS probably won’t see the light of day in competitive SPvP given the alternative superior builds and the current ‘types of SPvP’ and Map sizes.

GS would have to go under drastic (perhaps even breaking) changes to be used there, so effectively there’s no point in balancing it around SPvP. Thusly the alternatives are PvE which is its meta, and WvW in which if any balance changes like ‘adjusting # of targets hit’ are an indication, does get factored into balancing.

I consider GS to be in a pretty good place if it’s the best in one gamemode, good in another gamemode, yet not that good in another one.

This sort of thing isn’t unique to GS though. For example hammer is in almost the same shape except instead it’s absolutely useless in PvE, very good in PvP and very good in WvW.

All of warrior’s weapons are in good shape except for rifle. That is the only weapon out of all of ours that’s rubbish in all gamemodes.

Getting to be a bit off topic, but just thought I’d comment based off of Skyper’s post above because the way I’m reading it makes it look like he’s saying it’s a problem that GS isn’t good to use in competitive PvP. Considering it’s great to use everywhere else, I think it’s fine for it to be this way.

But if it’s important at all for GS to be useful in PvP then there’s no way this sluggish Rush is gonna cut it. It moves way too slowly.

Eh, overall given other things and issues with the warrior, GS viability in SPvP is probably the smallest dot on my radar. I certainly use it quite a bit everywhere else where it shines, I was simply making the mention that for the current SPvP modes like conquest and the soon to be Stronghold (which might see more GS use with the movement around the map being a priority rather than point contestion, pure speculation), the Greatsword isn’t all that versatile.

I suppose I came off a bit too critical though. I will say that Rush is definitely ‘sluggish’ and disjointed now.

if they plan to nerf its mobility, at least make the hitbox right. feels kinda silly to design a hard hitting move that doesn’t hit most of the time.
If it actually hits like its suppose to, GS will be so much better

Reducing the cast time would fix it, yeah. Back before the patch, Rush had a travel rate of about 750 units per second (1200 / 2 * 1.25) but now it’s sitting at 600 units per second, which is a significant enough change to feel sluggish for many players. Lowering the cast time to 1.5 seconds would put it back up at 800 units per second. In my opinion, though, “soft limits” like the one you’ve proposed to split the skill’s behavior between engaging and disengaging would be unintuitive and probably tedious to implement (meaning that ArenaNet is unlikely to do it). One of the justifications for the change to movement skills is that their behavior is now consistent under all circumstances, and adding more hidden functionality would defeat that purpose. Overall, I think it’d be better if they just increased its base cooldown to 25 seconds, which wouldn’t be too long if you’re using it to engage (most fights don’t last under half a minute). With the trait, it’d be back at 20 seconds, which is what most Warriors were running with prior to the patch.

I don’t want it changed.
Change it back. Nothing was wrong with it to begin with.

It wasn’t a problem for 2 years and now it is? That’s silly.

It was a great way to charge into a fight and beat some heads, now it looks like an old man speed walking.

“….compared to other weapons” what, like a rangers GreatSword 3?

I agree with you EnderzShadow but the reason they nerfed mobility skills is probably just because they’re introducing the Slow condition and wanted to take the easy way out on making sure it couldn’t be abused for longer rush/leaps.

I really wish they didn’t do it either but they did, and it really sucks. Warrior feels slow as hell now… but tbh, so does everything else ;_;

I don’t even understand how the changes they made to swiftness to effect movement changes, would of changed it that drastically.

I don’t even think they are related.

I could rush to a target with no swiftness or movement speed and it was like bulls charge.

For once, One time I would like to see ANET be the first MMO company to admit they messed up and revert their changes.

Or maybe they can just admit that none of the devs actively plays a warrior.

Purple Miku.7032:

I agree with you EnderzShadow but the reason they nerfed mobility skills is probably just because they’re introducing the Slow condition and wanted to take the easy way out on making sure it couldn’t be abused for longer rush/leaps.

I really wish they didn’t do it either but they did, and it really sucks. Warrior feels slow as hell now… but tbh, so does everything else ;_;

Not happy with most of their changes for the classes.

It’s a cluster FLuck

My ranger feels the same. Greatsword 3, sword 2 leaps.

w/e who cares

Purple Miku.7032:

I agree with you EnderzShadow but the reason they nerfed mobility skills is probably just because they’re introducing the Slow condition and wanted to take the easy way out on making sure it couldn’t be abused for longer rush/leaps.

I really wish they didn’t do it either but they did, and it really sucks. Warrior feels slow as hell now… but tbh, so does everything else ;_;

That’s what they were going for ( sadly) – everyone is now slower. Welcome to the new world.

They have more luck turning rush into a port than ever being able to fully fix it.