So let me start by saying that I have played Warrior for over 1000 hours. Most of this time has been spent in WvW with some limited time in PvE to get gold and grinding to 80. I am also Rank 10 in sPvP.
The Discipline Tree gives you 1% Crit Damage per point you put in. That is a perfectly good ratio. If it was any more, it would be ridiculous. I love the signet cooldown, the 5 second weapon swaps, and the movement skills break immobilize, so I run 20 points in Discipline pretty frequently.
The problem I have with this tree is the increase in your Burst Damage for how many points you put in is basically worthless. You get a .1% increase in burst damage for every point you put in. Apparently, in BWE #1, burst damage would increase by 1% per trait point. Now you have to use 10 trait points just to get the same amount of Burst Damage bonus that you used to get with 1 point.
That is literally a 90% nerf to a trait and I am struggling to understand why it was nerfed into the ground so horribly because now I have 20 trait points that I would rather have in condition damage or condition duration or power or toughness or any singular trait other than burst damage because a 2% increase in burst damage for 20 trait points is worthless.
My best guess is that the rationale for this decision was because kill shot would be doing something ridiculous like critting for 30k, but why would you not simply nerf the damage on kill shot to leave the trait scaling the same, or at least not nerf the scaling into the ground?
Let’s review what this 2% bonus in damage does. So let’s say that I crit on an Earthshaker, my crit does maybe 3k damage. That 2% would increased my damage by 60. That’s right, 60 bonus damage on a 3k crit. I’d be better off running a Sigil of Force.
If the scaling was even 50% of what it was originally and I got .5% increase in burst damage per point, 10 points would give me 5%, 20 points would give me a 10% increase and 30 points would give a 15% increase, hardly OP considering that you have to invest 30 points in the tree to get a PROFESSION UNIQUE stat that all other professions have scale normally for theirs.
Considering that adrenaline is a consumable resource unique to the warrior, it seems odd that the only use we would have for our burst skill is utility rather than actually being able to damage with it. Ele’s get a faster cooldown on their attunements, and mesmers get faster cooldowns on their shatters, both traits that massively increase their dps. However, Warrior burst skills sit there and are more useful by not being used if you want damage from your profession unique resource by using Berserker’s Power or heightened focus.
ANet, I am pleading with you here, can you change the scaling from Trait Points -> Burst Damage %? The only way that this damage can be remotely OP is by using kill shot and MAYBE Eviscerate. The logical solution here is to nerf the damage base on those abilities rather than nerfing ALL burst skills for a Warrior by changing the scaling for an entire trait rather than the source of the problem. Sweeping nerfs only serve to hurt the game and this is no exception.
If you would not like to change the scaling to make those 20 trait points actually worth something, I’d like 200 power statically added to my character so that my traits are worth as much as other professions’ and you can just keep the burst damage.
(edited by Esoteric.5490)
It is horrible and it’s a joke. They were probably worried about the burst damage potential being too high, but instead of adjusting it to something reasonable or changing it they nerfed into literal worthlessness.
so far arena net is becoming infamous for their nerfs
-90% burst damage nerf for warriors, -50% damage nerf on dancing daggers for thieves, greatsword nerf on rangers, grenade kit nerf on engineers. i’m sure there are others but the point is
arena net does not nerf by degrees, they do it with the claw end of the hammer.
Wait, the Discipline Tree increases your burst damage?! Never noticed.
So let me start by saying that I have played Warrior for over 1000 hours. Most of this time has been spent in WvW with some limited time in PvE to get gold and grinding to 80. I am also Rank 10 in sPvP.
The Discipline Tree gives you 1% Crit Damage per point you put in. That is a perfectly good ratio. If it was any more, it would be ridiculous. I love the signet cooldown, the 5 second weapon swaps, and the movement skills break immobilize, so I run 20 points in Discipline pretty frequently.
The problem I have with this tree is the increase in your Burst Damage for how many points you put in is basically worthless. You get a .1% increase in burst damage for every point you put in. Apparently, in BWE #1, burst damage would increase by 1% per trait point. Now you have to use 10 trait points just to get the same amount of Burst Damage bonus that you used to get with 1 point.
That is literally a 90% nerf to a trait and I am struggling to understand why it was nerfed into the ground so horribly because now I have 20 trait points that I would rather have in condition damage or condition duration or power or toughness or any singular trait other than burst damage because a 2% increase in burst damage for 20 trait points is worthless.
My best guess is that the rationale for this decision was because kill shot would be doing something ridiculous like critting for 30k, but why would you not simply nerf the damage on kill shot to leave the trait scaling the same, or at least not nerf the scaling into the ground?
Let’s review what this 2% bonus in damage does. So let’s say that I crit on an Earthshaker, my crit does maybe 3k damage. That 2% would increased my damage by 60. That’s right, 60 bonus damage on a 3k crit. I’d be better off running a Sigil of Force.
If the scaling was even 50% of what it was originally and I got .5% increase in burst damage per point, 10 points would give me 5%, 20 points would give me a 10% increase and 30 points would give a 15% increase, hardly OP considering that you have to invest 30 points in the tree to get a PROFESSION UNIQUE stat that all other professions have scale normally for theirs.
Considering that adrenaline is a consumable resource unique to the warrior, it seems odd that the only use we would have for our burst skill is utility rather than actually being able to damage with it. Ele’s get a faster cooldown on their attunements, and mesmers get faster cooldowns on their shatters, both traits that massively increase their dps. However, Warrior burst skills sit there and are more useful by not being used if you want damage from your profession unique resource by using Berserker’s Power or heightened focus.
ANet, I am pleading with you here, can you change the scaling from Trait Points -> Burst Damage %? The only way that this damage can be remotely OP is by using kill shot and MAYBE Eviscerate. The logical solution here is to nerf the damage base on those abilities rather than nerfing ALL burst skills for a Warrior by changing the scaling for an entire trait rather than the source of the problem. Sweeping nerfs only serve to hurt the game and this is no exception.
If you would not like to change the scaling to make those 20 trait points actually worth something, I’d like 200 power statically added to my character so that my traits are worth as much as other professions’ and you can just keep the burst damage.
Wait, the Discipline Tree increases your burst damage?! Never noticed.
See the quotation above? This is the correct method of thinking.
1% crit per point is awesome. As for the burst, think of it a nice little side dish that you get for free.
As the OP mentioned, a reduction on the cooldowns for burst abilities might be a much better change. This would be similar to almost every other class. Thieves’ steal, ele’s attunements, guadian virtues, etc… Remove the traits you can pick at the end for costing less adrenaline and shorter CD and just add something that increases burst abilities damage by 10%.
Tl;Dr Because you can’t make use of it doesn’t mean that others have the same problem. You can’t have your cake and a pie.
Yeah op is correct, right now the entire trait line doesn’t match up with other professions, which get significant profession specific bonus compared to warriors. Another thing I’d note are the horrible revive specific minor traits in tactics. Make them selectable of you want to focus on reviving, but don’t make them mandatory minor traits.
Sorry CookMETEnder – my comment was pure sarcasm. When a stat from a trait tree makes so little of a difference that you don’t even notice a difference, that is a problem.
Personally I would like it put back, or settled with at least .5. Or Artemis’ suggestion would also be good. I’ve never picked trees for their stat points alone – it’s Major > minor > stat… but it’s nice to have those stats as an actual side dish like every other class rather than a ‘little’ side dish.
Yeah op is correct, right now the entire trait line doesn’t match up with other professions, which get significant profession specific bonus compared to warriors. Another thing I’d note are the horrible revive specific minor traits in tactics. Make them selectable of you want to focus on reviving, but don’t make them mandatory minor traits.
Since I play WvW, I actually really like those minor traits. I’m a front line tank so it seems fitting to be a combat medic.
Sorry but I hate the revive traits being forced on me as well. It would be ok to pick them but if I wanted these things I’d get mercy gear and roll a support class. I don’t like to plan (and waste resources on) for the worst case scenario, I like to ensure it doesn’t happen in the first place.
The minor traits should be less specialized and it could just allow us to pick them.
Really, minor traits should have options in the first place, maybe 2 or 3.
If I will anticipate people going down, I will use the elite banner instead of the signet (and then switch back immediately because the signet helps me tank thus avoiding others dying in the first place).
(edited by Sahfur.5612)
Sorry CookMETEnder – my comment was pure sarcasm. When a stat from a trait tree makes so little of a difference that you don’t even notice a difference, that is a problem.
Personally I would like it put back, or settled with at least .5. Or Artemis’ suggestion would also be good. I’ve never picked trees for their stat points alone – it’s Major > minor > stat… but it’s nice to have those stats as an actual side dish like every other class rather than a ‘little’ side dish.
I know haha
I’m just saying, they don’t seem like they’re going to change anytime soon -.-..
Because of that, I’ve actually swapped to a 20/25/15/0/10 build -.-…
Used to have more in discipline..
It shouldn’t even be Burst Damage. We have only two skills which are used for raw damage. More universal mechanic would be much better (reduced cd, faster adre gain, etc).
I agree that the burst damage increase is laughable. It’s definitely not a reason to trait into discipline. I understand their reason to nerf it though from the 1% per point. My warrior uses axe, and i get easily up to 90% crit chance. That means that pretty much all my bursts are also a crit. The discipline tree increases your crit+ damage. If they did not nerf it, then 20 points into discipline would basically mean a 40% increase in damage on a burst.
I have 15 points into discipline, and i enjoy eviscerate, especially since i can usually use it with full adrenaline before the cooldown is over.
I do NOT agree with nerfing eviscerate and kill shot. Right now, those 2 skills work as intended with or without +burst damage. Both are meant to deal high damage without any other effects to them. It wouldn’t make much sense to weaken a good working skill where you’ll be forced to trait into a tree to get it back to it’s current strength. Otherwise it’s a pure waist, and like you said, other traits in this case that would benefit from full adrenaline would be better then using a nerfed burst that is only worth it with points into discipline.
Only solution i see if something can be changed (not like it’s needed really). Is to increase the 0.1% to 0.2%. So with 25 points into discipline, you still have 5% increase on a single skill of your weapon which seems very reasonable.
Other ways would be to change the +burst damage stat for something else, like more adrenaline per hit (already under traits), or lower the cooldown on burst (also under traits i believe?).
So probably the 0.1 to 0.2% seems to me the best option.
Arena just didn’t have any ideas about balance.
And they bought magazine’s reviews and awards (Best game, Best combat system, bla-bla)
Now - it’s obvious. It wasn’t obvious at the release of the game, but now - it is....
They nerfed to zero all engineers and continue this, but warriors, elems and thieves are still alive. Yes, you was "nerfed" too, but in comparsion with Engis - you are wasnt ever nerfed...
Warriors still have top-straight DPS and one of highest bursts in the game, while you also have top-HP and top-armor, so be glad with that...
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while you also have top-HP and top-armor, so be glad with that…
Glad you said this, was wondering whether you were serious or not.
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while you also have top-HP and top-armor, so be glad with that…Glad you said this, was wondering whether you were serious or not.
I think you had to be in beta to understand why it was done. Right now it’s a bit too low and almost insulting but it’s probably a lot easier to balance across the board around a trait line that not everyone will spec. Make it any better and then it becomes a trait point tax—“go Disc or go home” FTL. Everyone loves to play I’m A Game Designer and I Know Better.
Also:
Some of the comments here are downright disrespectful and ridiculous. Why would they hate on their own game and take joy in nerfing their own game. Why would anyone. That makes no sense and it’s scary how much video game rage can make one come to such a far fetched conclusion.
I think you had to be in beta to understand why it was done. Right now it’s a bit too low and almost insulting but it’s probably a lot easier to balance across the board around a trait line that not everyone will spec. Make it any better and then it becomes a trait point tax—“go Disc or go home” FTL. Everyone loves to play I’m A Game Designer and I Know Better.
Also:
Some of the comments here are downright disrespectful and ridiculous. Why would they hate on their own game and take joy in nerfing their own game. Why would anyone. That makes no sense and it’s scary how much video game rage can make one come to such a far fetched conclusion.
Gee, wonder who this guy is. Hmmm.
Wait, the Discipline Tree increases your burst damage?! Never noticed.
how could you not notice the incredible 3%?!
Someone made the argument to nerf an entire trait line to justify the damage base on certain weapons… If kill shot was not meant to do as much damage or eviscerate was not meant to do as much with the burst damage % boost, then nerf the base and allow people to spec so that their burst skills can do a lot more damage. As it is, other professions get full 1:1 scaling for their class-based trait while warriors get 1:10. The only class to be nerfed as such. When I first started playing at head start, I reported it as a bug because I put 10 points in and only got 1% of a bonus…
It isn’t really a “burst” skill if you are using it solely for utility and it’s damage is outdone by normal weapon skills…
The entire trait line wasn’t nerfed, just Brawn.
Someone made the argument to nerf an entire trait line to justify the damage base on certain weapons… If kill shot was not meant to do as much damage or eviscerate was not meant to do as much with the burst damage % boost, then nerf the base and allow people to spec so that their burst skills can do a lot more damage. As it is, other professions get full 1:1 scaling for their class-based trait while warriors get 1:10. The only class to be nerfed as such. When I first started playing at head start, I reported it as a bug because I put 10 points in and only got 1% of a bonus…
It isn’t really a “burst” skill if you are using it solely for utility and it’s damage is outdone by normal weapon skills…
Why should warriors have to put points into a tree where there is basically 1 trait and every other class gets 2 no matter where they put their points?
The point of the burst skill is supposed to be charged up and do good damage, but it does mediocre damage on most weapons (sans axe and rifle) and you can’t even spec for it to do any sort of noticeable increase in damage. If kill shot and eviscerate are the real problem, nerf their. It seems a lot more prudent to do that then devaluing other skills for anything other than utility.
Tell me how many warriors use GS F1. Now tell me how many elementalists use attunements or how many mesmers use their shatters. That is a serious problem. I rest my case.
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