Guild Wars 2

I really miss the dual axes from the early days of yore. Currently, it is rare to even see an Axe in a warriors main hand, due to it being so end focused on the last hit(s) in the chain. Deciding I had enough gold burning a hole in my pocket, and wanted my twin axes back (Still have two soulbound to my warrior in bank) I started experimenting.

First, I must say I was surprised at how many people took the time to tell me how bad axes are, with some very colorful words about the usefulness of the OH. I want to again thank everyone who tried to “save me” from using axes. I actually copied and pasted my response of testing and experimenting, so I wouldn’t have to keep typing it out so often.

Axes are meant to crit, and with that in mind, I set out to see if I could work with that. I filled out the Strength tree with the usual axe skills, and then put 25 into Arms for the passive 10% damage vs bleeding, and 15 into Discipline because I hate being so slow… and decreased weapon swap. I pulled my two berserker axes out of the bank, and runed one with force (5% dmg) and because I wanted bleeding, the other earth (60% chance to cause bleed for 5 sec on crit). I then wasted a lot of materials making a full set of assassin draconic armor, with ascended berserker jewelry, etc. because I wanted the highest crit chance possible. (To be honest, I seemed to get the exact same results, and saw no real difference (crit wise) from my set of Berserkers). I could reliably keep a perm bleed up, so always had the +10% damage bonus. I also switched out the force sigil for Air (30% to proc single target dmg every 5 sec), and then Fire (30% to proc AoE dmg every 5 sec), and was able to reliably get it to proc almost every 5 or so seconds.

It was a fun experiment, but cannot honestly say it brought my DPS up enough to contend with Greatsword.

offhand axe is not viable, period

some people use it in solo settings for the fury from #4 (they drop fgj for another signet) but other than that offhand axe is the worst offhand weapon that warriors have.

also, if you’re talking about pure axe vs pure GS the DPS from pure axe is much better.

RiotDBard.2746:

First, I must say I was surprised at how many people took the time to tell me how bad axes are, with some very colorful words about the usefulness of the OH. I want to again thank everyone who tried to “save me” from using axes.

This made me laugh. It’s not just that offhand axe is bad, it’s that the offhand axe for warrior is so obviously bad that everyone knows it. I, too have fallen victim to the “Maybe if I just setup my character like so…..” in an attempt to make the offhand axe viable on a couple of occasions. It never works. Offhand axe is just bad, really really bad. Just pretend it doesn’t exist and all will be better.

Needs a reflect on axe 5, then we’re stepping in the right direction.

Axe5 is viable with 25 bloodlust and 25 stacks of might, empowered/empower allies. It’s decent with 25 bloodlust + a few stacks of might +empowered and Destruction of the Empowered, but there’s nothing to stop u from using it. If u figure something out that makes it worth using, by all means, go for it!

CMstorm.8679:

Axe5 is viable with 25 bloodlust and 25 stacks of might, empowered/empower allies. It’s decent with 25 bloodlust + a few stacks of might +empowered and Destruction of the Empowered, but there’s nothing to stop u from using it. If u figure something out that makes it worth using, by all means, go for it!

You could have all the buffs in the game and you would still do more damage by just auto attacking.

Adam.4103:

You could have all the buffs in the game and you would still do more damage by just auto attacking.

sad truth. I really want axe to work as offhand, mostly because i love how dual axes look.
But the way it currently is, its the most boring thing, Basically with axe/axe pressing any key 2-5 is a loss in dps so you just sit there auto atking.

I personally don’t use OH axe because how weak axe #5 is but I feel axe #4 is a lot stronger than the other 2 offhands: sword and mace. Forget the vulnerability aspect on the mace for a second since in a PvE setting you’ll probably be running rending strikes and have a guardian in the party spamming vulnerability. Now compare the base damage between the axe 4 and mace 4:

Dual Strike: Damage (2x): 404 (1.2)
Crushing Blow: Damage: 336 (1.0)

Dual Strike is a lot more powerful than Crushing Blow since it has a higher base damage and a higher percentage being multiplied by the power and weapon strength and it also hits twice. Now let’s compare the Impale -> Rip and Crushing blow:

Dual Strike: Damage (2x): 404 (1.2)
Impale: Damage: 184 (0.5)
Rip: Damage: 643 (1.75)

Impale into Rip seems a lot stronger than Dual Strikes but you have to take into consideration that it takes 1.25 seconds to execute the entire chain (use impale and then rip your target) while dual strikes takes 0.5 seconds to cast and is on a shorter cooldown than Impale (12 seconds versus 15 seconds). Dual Strikes also cleaves unlike Impale which is only single target.

I’d use axe/axe if the encounter in dungeons didn’t require any blocks or interrupts/knockdowns with tremor.

edit: I took those numbers off of the wiki so I apologize if I’m wrong.

4 is ok, but 5 needs to change, for it to become viable, because it’s borderline useless atm, when compared to other available options.

you guys really have no idea what you talking about.. Axe Axe is so strong if you choose 30 0 20 0 20 traits with sharpened axes and 10% crittical damage plus cleansing IRE you have perma adrenaline and perma fury, and unlimited used of BURST skills. I use them with GS and trust me the damage is absolutely amazing. When you use Eviscerate and switch to GS use 100b and use Arcing slice by the time you change back to axe you have full adrenaline again and the count down on Eviscerate is not even over. I got my fury over 1.20 min. Also I keep switching back and forth with GS and doing Whirling axe and 100B plus 10 sec fury on Dual Strike.

That sounds like a horrible rotation for PvE. So i really hope you are not talking about PVE.

Horrible rotation? and why would that be? Have you tried before? NO then try and post your comments.
Thanks

Oh and try with 69% critical chance, 4100 attack and 125% critical damage and then we talk.

From the looks of off-hand axe it’s not really for damage but more so adrenaline gain for Eviscerates or other burst skills. Though I’d love to see reflection on it to give it sort of a niche against ranged classes like engineers and rangers.

xbutcherx.3861:

you guys really have no idea what you talking about.. Axe Axe is so strong if you choose 30 0 20 0 20 traits with sharpened axes and 10% crittical damage plus cleansing IRE you have perma adrenaline and perma fury, and unlimited used of BURST skills. I use them with GS and trust me the damage is absolutely amazing. When you use Eviscerate and switch to GS use 100b and use Arcing slice by the time you change back to axe you have full adrenaline again and the count down on Eviscerate is not even over. I got my fury over 1.20 min. Also I keep switching back and forth with GS and doing Whirling axe and 100B plus 10 sec fury on Dual Strike.

This is the most kittened post I have ever seen in this forum, and I’ve seen some kitten. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about and are just talking out of your kitten . 20 defense in a DPS build? Using burst skills on CD with berserker’s power? Using Arcing Slice?

Please stop posting nonsense. I don’t think you’ve ever run a proper DPS build. You should try one out before advertising your garbage build.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

xbutcherx.3861:

you guys really have no idea what you talking about.. Axe Axe is so strong if you choose 30 0 20 0 20 traits with sharpened axes and 10% crittical damage plus cleansing IRE you have perma adrenaline and perma fury, and unlimited used of BURST skills. I use them with GS and trust me the damage is absolutely amazing. When you use Eviscerate and switch to GS use 100b and use Arcing slice by the time you change back to axe you have full adrenaline again and the count down on Eviscerate is not even over. I got my fury over 1.20 min. Also I keep switching back and forth with GS and doing Whirling axe and 100B plus 10 sec fury on Dual Strike.

This is the most kittened post I have ever seen in this forum, and I’ve seen some kitten. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about and are just talking out of your kitten . 20 defense in a DPS build? Using burst skills on CD with berserker’s power? Using Arcing Slice?

Please stop posting nonsense. I don’t think you’ve ever run a proper DPS build. You should try one out before advertising your garbage build.

I gotta say, xbutcherx is spot on, i use axe/axe and use #5, can get adrenaline with in 3 seconds with the right traits and the 5 second wep swap lets u swap fast to use burst tons.

all i’m going to say is that whirling axe dps is less then that of axe’s autochain.
The only reasons i can think of using axe #5(whirling axe) is for
1. quick adrenaline
2. more then 3 mobs
3. whirl finisher
thats it….

xbutcherx.3861:

you guys really have no idea what you talking about.. Axe Axe is so strong if you choose 30 0 20 0 20 traits with sharpened axes and 10% crittical damage plus cleansing IRE you have perma adrenaline and perma fury, and unlimited used of BURST skills. I use them with GS and trust me the damage is absolutely amazing. When you use Eviscerate and switch to GS use 100b and use Arcing slice by the time you change back to axe you have full adrenaline again and the count down on Eviscerate is not even over. I got my fury over 1.20 min. Also I keep switching back and forth with GS and doing Whirling axe and 100B plus 10 sec fury on Dual Strike.

Thanks for the great info! I love dual axes and was a bit dismayed by the other posts. I play PvE and I’m just looking to have fun and enjoy the game. After reading your post I’m going to tweak a few traits. Much appreciated!

JammeR.1059:

guanlongwucaii.3162:

xbutcherx.3861:

you guys really have no idea what you talking about.. Axe Axe is so strong if you choose 30 0 20 0 20 traits with sharpened axes and 10% crittical damage plus cleansing IRE you have perma adrenaline and perma fury, and unlimited used of BURST skills. I use them with GS and trust me the damage is absolutely amazing. When you use Eviscerate and switch to GS use 100b and use Arcing slice by the time you change back to axe you have full adrenaline again and the count down on Eviscerate is not even over. I got my fury over 1.20 min. Also I keep switching back and forth with GS and doing Whirling axe and 100B plus 10 sec fury on Dual Strike.

This is the most kittened post I have ever seen in this forum, and I’ve seen some kitten. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about and are just talking out of your kitten . 20 defense in a DPS build? Using burst skills on CD with berserker’s power? Using Arcing Slice?

Please stop posting nonsense. I don’t think you’ve ever run a proper DPS build. You should try one out before advertising your garbage build.

I gotta say, xbutcherx is spot on, i use axe/axe and use #5, can get adrenaline with in 3 seconds with the right traits and the 5 second wep swap lets u swap fast to use burst tons.

Yeah, because losing your 15% damage boost from Berserker’s Power, then using an incredibly low DPS channeled skill to regain the adrenaline is worth it. You’re not supposed to use burst skills unless it’s at the very end of a fight/if you desperately need the endurance.

you can fill out adrenaline in about 2-3 seconds and keeping the 20% fury is important at least for me, is not how hard you hit but how much critical damage you can do. I do about 12-14k eviscerate, about 5-6k arcing slice, 10-12k whirling, 34-40k 100b to a 80 MOB inside any dungeon. I hit hard DPS and I can survive and not been down 80% of the time like those zerker warriors.

The problem Guan you haven’t try.. Try and we can talk, don’t forget to use healing signet

xbutcherx.3861:

you can fill out adrenaline in about 2-3 seconds and keeping the 20% fury is important at least for me, is not how hard you hit but how much critical damage you can do. I do about 12-14k eviscerate, about 5-6k arcing slice, 10-12k whirling, 34-40k 100b to a 80 MOB inside any dungeon. I hit hard DPS and I can survive and not been down 80% of the time like those zerker warriors.

I don’t think you understand how low that damage is, besides 100b which was about mid to low average. A 12-14k eviscerate isn’t even worth the adrenaline spent because an axe auto would outdamage it in the time it takes to cast/aftercast. Why would you use arcing slice? You should already be at 100% fury. A 10-12k whirling? Thats a 3.25 second cast time. Axe auto should be hitting over 10k per second meaning in that 3.25 seconds you should have hit 32.5k damage.

xbutcherx.3861:

you guys really have no idea what you talking about.. Axe Axe is so strong if you choose 30 0 20 0 20 traits with sharpened axes and 10% crittical damage plus cleansing IRE you have perma adrenaline and perma fury, and unlimited used of BURST skills. I use them with GS and trust me the damage is absolutely amazing. When you use Eviscerate and switch to GS use 100b and use Arcing slice by the time you change back to axe you have full adrenaline again and the count down on Eviscerate is not even over. I got my fury over 1.20 min. Also I keep switching back and forth with GS and doing Whirling axe and 100B plus 10 sec fury on Dual Strike.

You sir are correct and thank you for not bending to the masses that believe otherwise.

Gotta love those warriors that only using GS ..
They think they do a lot damage and the fact is in every dungeon I play I always have perma aggro, also those zerker warrios are down like 70% of the time, so useless and if you think you do more damage than me let do a test. name the server and we can do kill together to see how kills faster.

and let me ask you what do you do while 100b is on CD? just autoattack? lol

xbutcherx.3861:

The problem Guan you haven’t try.. Try and we can talk, don’t forget to use healing signet

He doesn’t need to try, it’s immediately obvious that your build is inferior DPS.

xbutcherx.3861:

Gotta love those warriors that only using GS ..
They think they do a lot damage and the fact is in every dungeon I play I always have perma aggro, also those zerker warrios are down like 70% of the time, so useless and if you think you do more damage than me let do a test. name the server and we can do kill together to see how kills faster.

now correct me if im wrong and if you can point to a specific post, but nobody on this thread has even mentioned greatsword

so I will ask you, what do you use? zerker build? all warriors I see PVE are only using GS.

xbutcherx.3861:

so I will ask you, what do you use? zerker build? all warriors I see PVE are only using GS.

quit playing open world, only warriors i see run axe/mace+GS, i use full berserkers + scholars, axe/mace+GS 30/25/0/0/15

Open world? which part of DUNGEON didn’t you understand? I’m sure you running dungeons and mobs down you all the time.
That build is good but nowhere close to mine, I do more damage than you do ( a lot more) and I survive a lot more than you do. Want to test?. Let’s do any dungeon.
Or, test the build with axe/axe and then we talk.
I run full zerker armor with divinity runes, all ascended trinkets ( Power, Critical rate and damage).

Also don’t say is bad if you never tried, I tried every build there is for Warrior and trust me after playing my warrior since beta I know what I’m talking about.

xbutcherx.3861 you are not very good at this, everyone knows for a long time now that axe auto attack is the best sustained DPS a warrior has, so when your 100b is on CD you just use WW and interrupt it to not skyrocket to the other side of the map and then just camp axe auto till you can swap and 100b again. Having 20 in defense in a DPS build is just dumb and doesn’t make ANY sense. Your rotation is bad because you use: Axe #5: low DPS, Arcing slice: Low DPS, and you spam eviscerate, which OVERALL lowers your damage due to not having that 15% bonus, just auto attacking with axe auto will do more damage then your eviscerate over the time taken to get adren back. And before you tell me to “try” your build out. I did, i used to run that build actually for months before i changed. There is a REASON every single time a warrior is in a speed run record or a solo record they dont use your type of build, because its MUCH lower damage.

As a side note, im curios where your “69% critical chance, 4100 attack and 125% critical damage” came from, what buffs did you use to reach that? Since if you use the standard warrior buffs thats pretty low and nothing to be proud of.

you can always tell when someone has no clue what theyre talking about when they list their “attack” stat which has no effect on damage
straight from the wiki:

Damage done = (Weapon Strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

xbutcherx.3861:

you can fill out adrenaline in about 2-3 seconds and keeping the 20% fury is important at least for me, is not how hard you hit but how much critical damage you can do. I do about 12-14k eviscerate, about 5-6k arcing slice, 10-12k whirling, 34-40k 100b to a 80 MOB inside any dungeon. I hit hard DPS and I can survive and not been down 80% of the time like those zerker warriors.

2-3 seconds actually isn’t that fast, when there are many ways to max your adrenaline immediately and you don’t need to use relatively low dps attack for them. Eviscerate is good as a leap finisher, but being a leap it takes relatively long time to cast, so you do almost as much damage with auto attack and you don’t need to worry about rebuilding your adrenaline again.

xbutcherx.3861:

69% critical chance

We should stop all dps discussion right here.

I want to see him doing a better lupicus solo time than those 30/25/0/0/15 filthy berserkers that always down and die.

Whirling axe is pure crap.. nough said.
3.5second animation time. I’m not a 100% sure on this, but it seems that axe 1 auto chain lies between the 3-4second range. So roughly the same.
so lets compare.
1160+2320+2320+2488 vs 5205
8288 vs 5205
so over 50% more dmg from the axe chain.

MyCondolences.8172:

Whirling axe is pure crap.. nough said.
3.5second animation time. I’m not a 100% sure on this, but it seems that axe 1 auto chain lies between the 3-4second range. So roughly the same.
so lets compare.
1160+2320+2320+2488 vs 5205
8288 vs 5205
so over 50% more dmg from the axe chain.

but u havent try…. that is why it won’t work!!!!!!!

cifer.2357:

I personally don’t use OH axe because how weak axe #5 is but I feel axe #4 is a lot stronger than the other 2 offhands: sword and mace. Forget the vulnerability aspect on the mace for a second since in a PvE setting you’ll probably be running rending strikes and have a guardian in the party spamming vulnerability. Now compare the base damage between the axe 4 and mace 4:

Dual Strike: Damage (2x): 404 (1.2)
Crushing Blow: Damage: 336 (1.0)

Dual Strike is a lot more powerful than Crushing Blow since it has a higher base damage and a higher percentage being multiplied by the power and weapon strength and it also hits twice. Now let’s compare the Impale -> Rip and Crushing blow:

Dual Strike: Damage (2x): 404 (1.2)
Impale: Damage: 184 (0.5)
Rip: Damage: 643 (1.75)

Impale into Rip seems a lot stronger than Dual Strikes but you have to take into consideration that it takes 1.25 seconds to execute the entire chain (use impale and then rip your target) while dual strikes takes 0.5 seconds to cast and is on a shorter cooldown than Impale (12 seconds versus 15 seconds). Dual Strikes also cleaves unlike Impale which is only single target.

I’d use axe/axe if the encounter in dungeons didn’t require any blocks or interrupts/knockdowns with tremor.

edit: I took those numbers off of the wiki so I apologize if I’m wrong.

Mace 5 is hitting twice in melee range.
Fury should be always active (but vul is rarely at 25 stacks all the time).
Sword a strong defensive weapon.
So the discussion is worthless.

Axe 5 needs a rework. Pure axe (spammning AA^^) can be already better in DPS then GS only or GS/Axe rotation.
So there is no space to buff Axe 5 DPS over Axe AA DPS without creating a new PvE Meta.
What´s making the Axe boring too is the fact that using F1 in PvE is a DPS loss (only for good lasthit i know).
This should be changed in future.

Probably decreasing Evis adrenalincost by wielding 2 axes.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

MyCondolences.8172:

Whirling axe is pure crap.. nough said.
3.5second animation time. I’m not a 100% sure on this, but it seems that axe 1 auto chain lies between the 3-4second range. So roughly the same.
so lets compare.
1160+2320+2320+2488 vs 5205
8288 vs 5205
so over 50% more dmg from the axe chain.

but u havent try…. that is why it won’t work!!!!!!!

I have tried. I’ve lvled my warrior to 80 with axe/axe and plan on continuing to use axe/axe. I know its an effect dps loss compared to other builds but i just love the way axe/axe looks.

Norjena.5172:

cifer.2357:

I personally don’t use OH axe because how weak axe #5 is but I feel axe #4 is a lot stronger than the other 2 offhands: sword and mace. Forget the vulnerability aspect on the mace for a second since in a PvE setting you’ll probably be running rending strikes and have a guardian in the party spamming vulnerability. Now compare the base damage between the axe 4 and mace 4:

Dual Strike: Damage (2x): 404 (1.2)
Crushing Blow: Damage: 336 (1.0)

Dual Strike is a lot more powerful than Crushing Blow since it has a higher base damage and a higher percentage being multiplied by the power and weapon strength and it also hits twice. Now let’s compare the Impale -> Rip and Crushing blow:

Dual Strike: Damage (2x): 404 (1.2)
Impale: Damage: 184 (0.5)
Rip: Damage: 643 (1.75)

Impale into Rip seems a lot stronger than Dual Strikes but you have to take into consideration that it takes 1.25 seconds to execute the entire chain (use impale and then rip your target) while dual strikes takes 0.5 seconds to cast and is on a shorter cooldown than Impale (12 seconds versus 15 seconds). Dual Strikes also cleaves unlike Impale which is only single target.

I’d use axe/axe if the encounter in dungeons didn’t require any blocks or interrupts/knockdowns with tremor.

edit: I took those numbers off of the wiki so I apologize if I’m wrong.

Mace 5 is hitting twice in melee range.
Fury should be always active (but vul is rarely at 25 stacks all the time).
Sword a strong defensive weapon.
So the discussion is worthless.

I was aware Tremor did twice damage in melee range but it’s still not as high as Dual Strikes. As for the Sword, I was talking about instances where you wouldn’t require defensive utilities/weapons. I agree with you on the invulnerability part but I feel that can easily be maintained with the right guardian or engineer in the party. Excluding Whirling Axe, I can see axe/axe being viable.

So 2×296 is less than 2×202: 404?

Anicetus.1253:

So 2×296 is less than 2×202: 404?

Isn’t each hit 404?

If not then sorry take back everything I said. I took them off of the wiki. I was expecting far too much from axe/axe, I guess.

Anicetus.1253:

I want to see him doing a better lupicus solo time than those 30/25/0/0/15 filthy berserkers that always down and die.

+1. I want to see if hes even capable of soloing him..We waiting for a video of u xbutcherx.3861 soloing Lupi with ur mighty axe offhand

cifer.2357:

Anicetus.1253:

So 2×296 is less than 2×202: 404?

Isn’t each hit 404?

Hundret Blades would be so ridiculously overpowered then

Solo Lupicus? LOL sorry dude I don’t solo dungeons to sell to others for gold.

That´s not a answer. I solod HotW P1 2 days ago, just for fun.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Hey, keep using your Axe/Mace or Sword/sword or GS or Hammer or whatever.. I do not care, I’m happy using my Axe/Axe and always taking aggro from zerker warriors. The OP asked a question and I answered, period.

Just that your answer has been totally wrong.

xbutcherx.3861:

Solo Lupicus? LOL sorry dude I don’t solo dungeons to sell to others for gold.

Wut? U dont want to die like the zerkers u keep rezzing? I love when ppl comes out of nowhere for the fist time and says “its fine, viable” and so on. And just to tell u something..im not a guy that runs a pro speed runs or something as i dont give a kitten about it, but when i see a warrior with offhand axe..its auto kick. Its a sigh of ppl that dont know what to do whatsoever.