Guild Wars 2

There are better ‘sit-on-traits’ then adrenal health, 30/0/0/0/30 would benefit you much more then anything else available. Even if your full knights hybrid-whatever. However .. I feel that is also very rude to say.. and I wish I couldn’t say it actually because I hate it. However I can’t deny thakittens the truth.

Harper.4173:

To counter your question i will add my own.
If they rework the trait as you intend why should i receive NO healing while my other trait wants me to keep adrenaline?

The problem – is that you’re not getting you want synergy for YOUR build. The build that goes 30 in defense.
I’m trying really hard to explain to you that synergy is a concept that goes beyond trait tree. It is a class concept.
Your bursting is your choice. It might be a good or a bad one but it is YOURS. You want to change the game around based on that.
My not bursting is MY choice – and I’m saying the way the skill works now you lose some and get some. I gain health for NOT bursting but LOSE trait points because i have to skill up to 15 defense. It is balanced in a sense. Since you have it traited but lose healing when you burst.

It’s as simple as :
Heal = no burst and loss of trait points.
Burst = no heal and gain of trait points.
you want Burst and heal – thus making what you want a situation in which there’s only ONE way to play.
If you want to improve the warrior you need to rework its mechanics entirely.
First of all BP and HF should be different. I don’t know how exactly but different.
In the end i feel that warrior should be given some form of reward for NOT bursting as long as two of its core grandmaster traits are designed around the idea of NOT bursting.
If they change those – either way – it might be worth doing what you said – but with with the current meta you’re just buffing your build and killing others.

Unrelated – can you give me the number you get for effective power if you punch your build correctly and accurately here ? Also damage reduction. I’ve been thinking of knights/cavalier and was curious. If you don’t want it public you can PM me. If not you can just not share it if you’re not comfortable with it

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/

Harper, the way I see it is this…

When you hold onto you adrenaline you are most likely using an offensive build because of the offensive traits that benefit damage for holding onto you adrenaline.

When you are using your burst skills frequently you could be running a condition build or most likely a defensive build that benefits from using Cleansing Ire.

Changing AH work feel more synergized in defense because defense is centered around keeping health and removing conditions. Where as if it stays in offense it clashes with the premise of keeping adrenaline to do more damage and randomly throw some healing in there.

I think what would make everyone happier with AH is if it was a combination of what it currently is and what has been suggested.

Lower the HPS for each tier of AH and add on the healing per bar spent. Current builds using AH would still benefit from holding onto their adrenaline but builds that need to burst would get a healing benefit.

This would also change AH into a situational burst mechanic of “Should I use my burst to heal instantly or can I survive for the HPS”

Daecollo.
It’s not rude to state your opinion. I respect that.
If i were to sit on 30 0 0 0 30 even in full knights i would be crippled by the lack of viable sustain.
Also I see you’ve rejected my offer of discussing your build – but at least say it out front – don’t just ignore it. That’s sort of rude.

Chrispy – i apologize for ruining your name earlier. You sir have the answer right there. Make it a mix maybe – that could work. But the fundamental problem of BP and HF is still not addressed.
Either make them good – and accessible or just change them. What we have now as stated above is sad and …not that useful.

@Skam – I know. I theorycrafted that build as soon as the false patch notes were out. It was literally the FIRST thing i did. So I understand.
Problem is Anet caters to the casuals and the casuals don’t care. Us on the forums? We aren’t that. We’re the ones who sort of care and take our time thinking and sorting things out because we care about it.
It sort of goes like this : if it’s change people will most likely not like it ( Unless it’s like a HUGE blatant buff ). Which means angry mob of casual players ( You ruined my build hurr) which means Anet doesn’t want that.

Skamlic.8041:

Devs could add more damage to burst skills (or make them more useful). Then they can make BP and HF only to effect burst skills:
BP: Burst skill has 5%/10%/15% more damage while 1/2/3 bars of adrenaline.
HF: Burst skill has 5%/10%/15% more critical chance while 1/2/3 bars of adrenaline

I have to say no to both of those. Burst Mastery already gives +damage% to bursts. And we know what happened to Discipline the last time we had tons of +damage% on burst.

As for the Heightened Focus, there’s already a minor trait at 15 points into Arms that gives 10% crit to bursts, at all times.

Olba.5376:

Skamlic.8041:

Devs could add more damage to burst skills (or make them more useful). Then they can make BP and HF only to effect burst skills:
BP: Burst skill has 5%/10%/15% more damage while 1/2/3 bars of adrenaline.
HF: Burst skill has 5%/10%/15% more critical chance while 1/2/3 bars of adrenaline

I have to say no to both of those. Burst Mastery already gives +damage% to bursts. And we know what happened to Discipline the last time we had tons of +damage% on burst.

As for the Heightened Focus, there’s already a minor trait at 15 points into Arms that gives 10% crit to bursts, at all times.

And already a trait that improves burst damage by 30%.

BP should be replaced with…

Gain Might for every bar of adrenaline spent…
either 5 stacks for 1s…3s…7s
or 1…3…5 stacks for 10s

This follows the idea that warriors should spend adrenaline, not sit on it.

HF should change to

Gain Fury for every bar of adrenaline spent…
Fury for 2s…4s…8s…

Or something like this

Just for the record, I like Adrenal Health how it is currently, but I understand everyone’s frustration. I believe gaining health when you gain a strike of adrenaline won’t work because you effectively turn:

Signet of Rage
Berserker’s Stance
Berserker’s Might
Inspiring Shouts
Furious
Sharpened Axes
Cleansing Ire

Into traits/utilities that increase the rate of healing, and in some cases, they would be capable of functioning as an additional heal. If anything, I would hope we see something like:

Regenerate health based on adrenaline level(reduced). Gain health per bar of adrenaline spent.

That isn’t exactly what the bursters want, but we achieve a few things:
-We avoid making adrenaline gaining traits/utilities OP.
-The passive reduction allows some healing to be added (on burst) without drastically increasing the trait’s healing per second.
-We gain synergy with Cleansing Ire and frequent burst use.

I would also recommend changing the passive to heal every second instead of every 3. That way, bursters milk as much healing as possible in the time between when they hit that first full bar and use their burst.

I don’t think we’ll see a change like this, but I’d be blown away if we saw something like in the OP. Berserker’s Stance with a burst in the middle would be a 3 bar heal, burst heal, 3 bar heal in an 8 second period. Healing Shouts would be tremendously effective when mixed with Inspiring Shouts. Furious and Axe Mastery would be as bad as Omnoms were. SoR would be a 3 bar heal followed by a burst heal on a short CD. Cleansing Ire would make you not even want to attack a warrior… his heals would go into overdrive, he’d burst you to clear condis and heal again in the process, then rinse and repeat. There are just too many powerful side effects resulting from the OP.

I suggest you guys all get behind an idea that is mutually beneficial and kick and scream together against Anet instead of against each other.

Chrispytoast.3698:

Lower the HPS for each tier of AH and add on the healing per bar spent. Current builds using AH would still benefit from holding onto their adrenaline but builds that need to burst would get a healing benefit.

Veritas.6071:

Just for the record, I like Adrenal Health how it is currently, but I understand everyone’s frustration. I believe gaining health when you gain a strike of adrenaline won’t work because you effectively turn:

Signet of Rage
Berserker’s Stance
Berserker’s Might
Inspiring Shouts
Furious
Sharpened Axes
Cleansing Ire

Into traits/utilities that increase the rate of healing, and in some cases, they would be capable of functioning as an additional heal. If anything, I would hope we see something like:

Regenerate health based on adrenaline level(reduced). Gain health per bar of adrenaline spent.

That isn’t exactly what the bursters want, but we achieve a few things:
-We avoid making adrenaline gaining traits/utilities OP.
-The passive reduction allows some healing to be added (on burst) without drastically increasing the trait’s healing per second.
-We gain synergy with Cleansing Ire and frequent burst use.

I would also recommend changing the passive to heal every second instead of every 3. That way, bursters milk as much healing as possible in the time between when they hit that first full bar and use their burst.

Yay, someone else agrees with the idea I had earlier

Chrispytoast.3698:

Chrispytoast.3698:

Lower the HPS for each tier of AH and add on the healing per bar spent. Current builds using AH would still benefit from holding onto their adrenaline but builds that need to burst would get a healing benefit.

Veritas.6071:

Just for the record, I like Adrenal Health how it is currently, but I understand everyone’s frustration. I believe gaining health when you gain a strike of adrenaline won’t work because you effectively turn:

Signet of Rage
Berserker’s Stance
Berserker’s Might
Inspiring Shouts
Furious
Sharpened Axes
Cleansing Ire

Into traits/utilities that increase the rate of healing, and in some cases, they would be capable of functioning as an additional heal. If anything, I would hope we see something like:

Regenerate health based on adrenaline level(reduced). Gain health per bar of adrenaline spent.

That isn’t exactly what the bursters want, but we achieve a few things:
-We avoid making adrenaline gaining traits/utilities OP.
-The passive reduction allows some healing to be added (on burst) without drastically increasing the trait’s healing per second.
-We gain synergy with Cleansing Ire and frequent burst use.

I would also recommend changing the passive to heal every second instead of every 3. That way, bursters milk as much healing as possible in the time between when they hit that first full bar and use their burst.

Yay, someone else agrees with the idea I had earlier

Haha sorry. I didn’t want to hijack your idea. This thread is over 70 posts… I just couldn’t read every single one.

No worries, its good that multiple people have the same idea though

Skamlic.8041:

Olba.5376:

Skamlic.8041:

Devs could add more damage to burst skills (or make them more useful). Then they can make BP and HF only to effect burst skills:
BP: Burst skill has 5%/10%/15% more damage while 1/2/3 bars of adrenaline.
HF: Burst skill has 5%/10%/15% more critical chance while 1/2/3 bars of adrenaline

I have to say no to both of those. Burst Mastery already gives +damage% to bursts. And we know what happened to Discipline the last time we had tons of +damage% on burst.

As for the Heightened Focus, there’s already a minor trait at 15 points into Arms that gives 10% crit to bursts, at all times.

Yeah, you’re right, but I could not think of anything better.

What about just flat +%dmg (BP) and +%crit. chance (HF) without any adrenaline at all? Lower values of course. I think this could work, they are grandmaster traits after all.

The only thing I’ve thought of to help with this is to have the current bonuses linger for maybe 3 to 5 seconds, but that could be pretty strong for fast adrenaline gaining builds… I don’t think these two traits are as much of an issue though. Strength and Discipline both have a Grand Master trait that work well in an adrenaline sitting build and bursting build… although I believe Berserker’s Might could use a buff or be changed completely. Maybe 1 adrenaline per second.

Chrispytoast.3698:

BP should be replaced with…

Gain Might for every bar of adrenaline spent…
either 5 stacks for 1s…3s…7s
or 1…3…5 stacks for 10s

This follows the idea that warriors should spend adrenaline, not sit on it.

HF should change to

Gain Fury for every bar of adrenaline spent…
Fury for 2s…4s…8s…

I have to say, I prefer this idea over the others. Personally, I don’t use either of the traits, so I wouldn’t be losing any damage, but the PvE dungeon meta builds would, since they’re already at 25 stacks of Might and near-permanent Fury.

Thus, those meta builds would lose out completely. In fact, you could bet your kitten that the meta would shift to something like 20/20/0/10/20 or so.

Personally, as someone who lives and dies with my constant burst spam, I’d welcome such a change.

What about just flat +%dmg (BP) and +%crit. chance (HF) without any adrenaline at all? Lower values of course. I think this could work, they are grandmaster traits after all.

Considering that we have minor traits for 10% more crit for bursts and 10% damage on bleeding foes, I don’t know.

Mmm, lets stick to the topic at hand.

@Veritas:
Yes, they would make those traits and skills better.

However, look at other classes, like the thief for example. They have many skills that stealth them. Their traits benefit from going into stealth like ours benefit from gaining adrenaline.

Why should we be punished. Why can’t we spec and make our traits synergy better with other traits?

Olba.5376:

Chrispytoast.3698:

BP should be replaced with…

Gain Might for every bar of adrenaline spent…
either 5 stacks for 1s…3s…7s
or 1…3…5 stacks for 10s

This follows the idea that warriors should spend adrenaline, not sit on it.

HF should change to

Gain Fury for every bar of adrenaline spent…
Fury for 2s…4s…8s…

I have to say, I prefer this idea over the others. Personally, I don’t use either of the traits, so I wouldn’t be losing any damage, but the PvE dungeon meta builds would, since they’re already at 25 stacks of Might and near-permanent Fury.

Thus, those meta builds would lose out completely. In fact, you could bet your kitten that the meta would shift to something like 20/20/0/10/20 or so.

Personally, as someone who lives and dies with my constant burst spam, I’d welcome such a change.

5/10/15% damage is quite a bit stronger than those might stacks. Not to mention 10 points in Tactics can net you an equal number of power with 100% uptime (Empower Allies). Additionally, there is no shortage of warriors running might stacking or boon duration builds… if you increase the stacks too much, you could hurt those builds because many of them are already capping might.

As for Fury, we have so much of it already that people complain about Arcing Slice on the GS and Dual Strike on OH Axe granting Fury. Imagine the outcry if a 30 point trait did the same thing.

Please stick to the topic.

Daecollo.9578:

Please stick to the topic.

I think inadvertently we are sticking to the topic. It was discussed that AH would benefit from a change, but the best way to change it would also benefit from changing BP and HF as well. If all three changed then it would just be a synergasm

Chrispytoast.3698:

Daecollo.9578:

Please stick to the topic.

I think inadvertently we are sticking to the topic. It was discussed that AH would benefit from a change, but the best way to change it would also benefit from changing BP and HF as well. If all three changed then it would just be a synergasm

I don’t want to change BP/HF, if you want to make another thread. This is about AH.

BP/HF have a place already, and are fine.

AH is different, it has no real place in the defense tree and is exactly the opposite of almost every other trait in the tree. Wheras BP/HF actually go well with the traits in it.

Daecollo.9578:

Mmm, lets stick to the topic at hand.

@Veritas:
Yes, they would make those traits and skills better.

However, look at other classes, like the thief for example. They have many skills that stealth them. Their traits benefit from going into stealth like ours benefit from gaining adrenaline.

Why should we be punished. Why can’t we spec and make our traits synergy better with other traits?

Because we can generate adrenaline while being offensive and defensive. Thieves can attack out of stealth and lose that regen or they can sacrifice their offense and stay in stealth for the heals (sounds like current Adrenal Health, huh?). A warrior that heals when he gains adrenaline would never stop healing unless his adrenaline capped… at which point he could just dump it and keep healing.

Skamlic.8041:

Olba.5376:

Considering that we have minor traits for 10% more crit for bursts and 10% damage on bleeding foes, I don’t know.

Well yeah, a lot of traits are just weird. Some minor traits are so strong, others really weak, even majors! Examples:

• Reviver’s Might
• Versatile Power
• Powerful Banners

Back to the topic:
I think we would really benefit from new Adrenal Health. There are a lot of traits connected to using burst skill:

• Building Momentum
• Critical Burst
• Cleansing Ire
• Burst Mastery

Exactly, we don’t need more.

Just take the adrenaline out of it completely and make it just another (Unique)passive regen like soothing mist.

Making it work on spending adrenaline would be a nerf unless the heal amount is quadrupled or more. Even then, taking a passive heal and turning it into an active heal is never a good thing as you lose out whenever you’re not bursting something.

Daecollo.9578:

Veritas.6071:

Daecollo.9578:

Mmm, lets stick to the topic at hand.

@Veritas:
Yes, they would make those traits and skills better.

However, look at other classes, like the thief for example. They have many skills that stealth them. Their traits benefit from going into stealth like ours benefit from gaining adrenaline.

Why should we be punished. Why can’t we spec and make our traits synergy better with other traits?

Because we can generate adrenaline while being offensive and defensive. Thieves can attack out of stealth and lose that regen or they can sacrifice their offense and stay in stealth for the heals (sounds like current Adrenal Health, huh?). A warrior that heals when he gains adrenaline would never stop healing unless his adrenaline capped… at which point he could just dump it and keep healing.

Easier said then done.

Not really. People would gain so much survivability with the longbow and Cleansing Ire that they would be compulsory in any competitive build. 20 points in Defense and a longbow would ensure that you were always healing and cleansing condis. I know you have a lot of pride in your ideas, but sometimes other people have better ones. It’s better to get the community behind an idea that is sound than to try forcing something that is obviously flawed. Just my 2 cents. Have fun discussing, guys. It was fun.

DargorV.8571:

Just take the adrenaline out of it completely and make it just another (Unique)passive regen like soothing mist.

Making it work on spending adrenaline would be a nerf unless the heal amount is quadrupled or more.

No, there are many traits that can gain adrenaline strikes. Our traits would finally have synergy with each other and actually be more then just filler traits. However a lot of people don’t want Warriors to be a class that requires thought which is why they favor things like the current system.

My idea was to do both, benefit from gaining strikes and dumping. This makes the play-style more active and favors the current defensive traits that the warrior uses. It also provides us a unique way to sustain ourselves with several counters to that sustain.

You don’t HAVE to have the berserker’s might and heightened focus traits in order to take adrenal health. The main thing that would benefit this trait is being able to build your adrenaline up fast, which can be accelerated by multi-hitting abilities, traits like furious, or utilities like berseker’s stance or signet of rage.

In fact, berserker’s might and heightened focus are both offensively inclined traits, yet the original complaint highlights defensive builds, so I don’t know what sense that makes. It’s a case of not being allowed to have your cake and eat it too.

I run a build with both berserker’s might and adrenal health, and I forego heightened focus. It means I crit less, but I designed the build to not rely on crits, and it can make up for those crits by way of gaining fury through signet of rage (although I kind of want to test out the new rampage).

The only real change I think adrenal health needs is that it should grant a health tick every second instead of every three seconds. I’m not saying the HP/second should be increased, but it should be parceled out in individual increments. 120 HP/second is better than 360 HP/3 seconds.

Adrenal Health
Gain health when you gain a strike of adrenaline. Gain health for every bar of adrenaline spent with a melee weapon.

That was my idea originally.

Daecollo.9578:

Adrenal Health
Gain health when you gain a strike of adrenaline. Gain health for every bar of adrenaline spent with a melee weapon.

That was my idea originally.

You want to make a less useful trait for ranged-based warriors? Why?

Yamsandjams.3267:

Daecollo.9578:

Adrenal Health
Gain health when you gain a strike of adrenaline. Gain health for every bar of adrenaline spent with a melee weapon.

That was my idea originally.

You want to make a less useful trait for ranged-based warriors? Why?

Because Longbow with certain traits is the fastest way to gain adrenaline strikes in the game.

It would be simply overpowered with the longbow.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious + http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combustive_Shot = Instantly full Adrenaline.

The trait needs to benefit melee moreso then ranged, otherwise

That is why I don’t want it for ranged weapons, it would simply be way too powerful.

With a 0/30/15/0/25 build I could pretty much immediately fill my adrenaline, heal by simply firing and heal more by immediately gaining full strikes. I do this in WvWvW against Zergs, this would make a very tanky very hard to kill warrior.

However if its made for melee attacks only, it would be balanced and provide synergy with a lot of the traits.

That is why I didn’t want the burst portion to heal off ranged attacks.

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

You want to make a less useful trait for ranged-based warriors? Why?

Because there are problems with sustain in melee, not range.

No, I think the sustain is the same, it’s just that you kite at range and not in melee. Even still, ranged warriors will need to remove conditions as well. Remember that melee warriors are already getting the compensation for this through more overall damage in their weapon abilities.

If they did add an “on-spend” component to this, it should apply across the board, not if you just have a melee weapon equipped. Imagine if they did that with Cleansing Ire, it wouldn’t make sense.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

You want to make a less useful trait for ranged-based warriors? Why?

Because there are problems with sustain in melee, not range.

No, I think the sustain is the same, it’s just that you kite at range and not in melee. Even still, ranged warriors will need to remove conditions as well. Remember that melee warriors are already getting the compensation for this through more overall damage in their weapon abilities.

If they did add an “on-spend” component to this, it should apply across the board, not if you just have a melee weapon equipped. Imagine if they did that with Cleansing Ire, it wouldn’t make sense.

Then they need to add an internal cool-down on furious and other strike gaining abilities so they effect melee/ranged the same.

Otherwise ranged classes would heal for 2-3x more then melee classes. Why would that make sense?

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

No, I think the sustain is the same, it’s just that you kite at range and not in melee. Even still, ranged warriors will need to remove conditions as well. Remember that melee warriors are already getting the compensation for this through more overall damage in their weapon abilities.

If they did add an “on-spend” component to this, it should apply across the board, not if you just have a melee weapon equipped. Imagine if they did that with Cleansing Ire, it wouldn’t make sense.

It has to do with the way aggro works in this game (distance and toughness). Usually melee warriors and guardians get most of the aggro. As a ranged warrior you get a lot less hit and your own healing skill is usually enough.

Heh, guess your warrior is much different than my warrior. Ranged or melee, I nearly always have aggro.

Daecollo.9578:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

You want to make a less useful trait for ranged-based warriors? Why?

Because there are problems with sustain in melee, not range.

No, I think the sustain is the same, it’s just that you kite at range and not in melee. Even still, ranged warriors will need to remove conditions as well. Remember that melee warriors are already getting the compensation for this through more overall damage in their weapon abilities.

If they did add an “on-spend” component to this, it should apply across the board, not if you just have a melee weapon equipped. Imagine if they did that with Cleansing Ire, it wouldn’t make sense.

Then they need to add an internal cool-down on furious and other strike gaining abilities so they effect melee/ranged the same.

Otherwise ranged classes would heal for 2-3x more then melee classes. Why would that make sense?

You’d have to give more concrete proof to illustrate that. One does not gain better healing by virtue of being ranged. Remember that burst skills themselves have a cooldown, so it’s not like you’d pop it off every second. Even melee builds can pop a burst on-demand, so the healing provided by the skill would be equal in that regard.

Alternatively you can just not have an on-spend portion to adrenal health, which would be simpler.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

No, I think the sustain is the same, it’s just that you kite at range and not in melee. Even still, ranged warriors will need to remove conditions as well. Remember that melee warriors are already getting the compensation for this through more overall damage in their weapon abilities.

If they did add an “on-spend” component to this, it should apply across the board, not if you just have a melee weapon equipped. Imagine if they did that with Cleansing Ire, it wouldn’t make sense.

It has to do with the way aggro works in this game (distance and toughness). Usually melee warriors and guardians get most of the aggro. As a ranged warrior you get a lot less hit and your own healing skill is usually enough.

Heh, guess your warrior is much different than my warrior. Ranged or melee, I nearly always have aggro.

Daecollo.9578:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

You want to make a less useful trait for ranged-based warriors? Why?

Because there are problems with sustain in melee, not range.

No, I think the sustain is the same, it’s just that you kite at range and not in melee. Even still, ranged warriors will need to remove conditions as well. Remember that melee warriors are already getting the compensation for this through more overall damage in their weapon abilities.

If they did add an “on-spend” component to this, it should apply across the board, not if you just have a melee weapon equipped. Imagine if they did that with Cleansing Ire, it wouldn’t make sense.

Then they need to add an internal cool-down on furious and other strike gaining abilities so they effect melee/ranged the same.

Otherwise ranged classes would heal for 2-3x more then melee classes. Why would that make sense?

You’d have to give more concrete proof to illustrate that. One does not gain better healing by virtue of being ranged. Remember that burst skills themselves have a cooldown, so it’s not like you’d pop it off every second. Even melee builds can pop a burst on-demand, so the healing provided by the skill would be equal in that regard.

Alternatively you can just not have an on-spend portion to adrenal health, which would be simpler.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Combustive-shot-and-adrenaline-granting/first#post2082822

Daecollo.9578:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

No, I think the sustain is the same, it’s just that you kite at range and not in melee. Even still, ranged warriors will need to remove conditions as well. Remember that melee warriors are already getting the compensation for this through more overall damage in their weapon abilities.

If they did add an “on-spend” component to this, it should apply across the board, not if you just have a melee weapon equipped. Imagine if they did that with Cleansing Ire, it wouldn’t make sense.

It has to do with the way aggro works in this game (distance and toughness). Usually melee warriors and guardians get most of the aggro. As a ranged warrior you get a lot less hit and your own healing skill is usually enough.

Heh, guess your warrior is much different than my warrior. Ranged or melee, I nearly always have aggro.

Daecollo.9578:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

You want to make a less useful trait for ranged-based warriors? Why?

Because there are problems with sustain in melee, not range.

No, I think the sustain is the same, it’s just that you kite at range and not in melee. Even still, ranged warriors will need to remove conditions as well. Remember that melee warriors are already getting the compensation for this through more overall damage in their weapon abilities.

If they did add an “on-spend” component to this, it should apply across the board, not if you just have a melee weapon equipped. Imagine if they did that with Cleansing Ire, it wouldn’t make sense.

Then they need to add an internal cool-down on furious and other strike gaining abilities so they effect melee/ranged the same.

Otherwise ranged classes would heal for 2-3x more then melee classes. Why would that make sense?

You’d have to give more concrete proof to illustrate that. One does not gain better healing by virtue of being ranged. Remember that burst skills themselves have a cooldown, so it’s not like you’d pop it off every second. Even melee builds can pop a burst on-demand, so the healing provided by the skill would be equal in that regard.

Alternatively you can just not have an on-spend portion to adrenal health, which would be simpler.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Combustive-shot-and-adrenaline-granting/first#post2082822

Yes, everyone knows that, but the burst itself still has a cooldown. Melee builds can build it in the exact same way (i.e. sword/axe, mace/greatsword). Plus the rifle doesn’t have combustive shot, and last I checked that was a ranged weapon, so… yeah.

It is a lot harder.. with spammable melee blinds, evasion, having to chase, moving away, condition pressure, cripple, chill, being in the fray, everything you deal with by being melee and ignore at ranged.

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Heh, guess your warrior is much different than my warrior. Ranged or melee, I nearly always have aggro.

I wasn’t speaking from my experience, but from official source. :P

Right, but those are only factors. As far as I understand, if you are doing more damage or have more toughness than someone in melee, you can outstrip the importance of proximity.

Additionally, you can still use a ranged weapon from close proximity. Sometimes you want to do this to avoid AoEs, use shorter ranged abilities on the weapon, benefit from ally abilities (i.e. timewarp) or stay in close for when you swap to melee.

So to conclude that ranged warriors have an inherently easier time surviving due to virtue of being ranged is using a lot of assumptions.

1 It is a lot harder to gain strikes of adrenaline with a melee weapon then it is a ranged one.

2 It is a lot easier to dump adrenaline with a ranged weapon then a melee weapon.

Daecollo.9578:

It is a lot harder.. with spammable melee blinds, condition pressure, being in the fray, everything you deal with by being melee and ignore at ranged.

You also get the benefits of cleaving attacks, more overall damage, and traits like cleansing ire to build adrenaline when hit. Maybe there’s a case for having more adrenaline built for melee hits instead of ranged hits as an additional reward for being in melee, but I don’t think splitting the proposed functionality of such a trait is the better way to go about it.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Daecollo.9578:

It is a lot harder.. with spammable melee blinds, condition pressure, being in the fray, everything you deal with by being melee and ignore at ranged.

You also get the benefits of cleaving attacks, more overall damage, and traits like cleansing ire to build adrenaline when hit. Maybe there’s a case for having more adrenaline built for melee hits instead of ranged hits as an additional reward for being in melee, but I don’t think splitting the proposed functionality of such a trait is the better way to go about it.

You also have to deal with Cripple/Chill/Immobilize/Melee Blind/Being in the fray (other peoples cleaving attacks/aoe stuns.)

It is simply a lot harder to get a melee burst off then a ranged burst.

That is why I only want the healing burst to benefit from melee weapons, the strikes should be global though.

Daecollo.9578:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Daecollo.9578:

It is a lot harder.. with spammable melee blinds, condition pressure, being in the fray, everything you deal with by being melee and ignore at ranged.

You also get the benefits of cleaving attacks, more overall damage, and traits like cleansing ire to build adrenaline when hit. Maybe there’s a case for having more adrenaline built for melee hits instead of ranged hits as an additional reward for being in melee, but I don’t think splitting the proposed functionality of such a trait is the better way to go about it.

You also have to deal with Cripple/Chill/Immobilize.

Essentially, everyone does. You seem to be talking from a primarily ZvZ perspective, which throws a lot of balance out the window. PvE and sPvP can be a very different case where the ranged warrior can’t just sit back behind a throng of people not being directly attacked since the frontlines are both going at each other.

I would also point out that ranged warriors need to worry about reflect walls and projectile reflect traits, projectile absorbtion, line of sight issues, strafing, and no option for a second sigil in an offhand. It’s not like they don’t have their own problems to worry about that melees don’t.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Daecollo.9578:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Daecollo.9578:

It is a lot harder.. with spammable melee blinds, condition pressure, being in the fray, everything you deal with by being melee and ignore at ranged.

You also get the benefits of cleaving attacks, more overall damage, and traits like cleansing ire to build adrenaline when hit. Maybe there’s a case for having more adrenaline built for melee hits instead of ranged hits as an additional reward for being in melee, but I don’t think splitting the proposed functionality of such a trait is the better way to go about it.

You also have to deal with Cripple/Chill/Immobilize.

Essentially, everyone does. You seem to be talking from a primarily ZvZ perspective, which throws a lot of balance out the window. PvE and sPvP can be a very different case where the ranged warrior can’t just sit back behind a throng of people not being directly attacked since the frontlines are both going at each other.

I would also point out that ranged warriors need to worry about reflect walls and projectile reflect traits, projectile absorbtion, line of sight issues, strafing, and no option for a second sigil in an offhand. It’s not like they don’t have their own problems to worry about that melees don’t.

Except with ranged, I can still dump my burst easilly, while in melee, if I miss I get the cool-down and have to wait 7-10 seconds for it to come back.

Anyways, the developers know what they are doing.

Skamlic.8041:

Skamlic.8041:

Skamlic.8041:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Heh, guess your warrior is much different than my warrior. Ranged or melee, I nearly always have aggro.

I wasn’t speaking from my experience, but from official source.

Adrenal Health
Gain health when you gain a strike of adrenaline. (no cooldown) Gain health for every bar of adrenaline spent. (10 sec cooldown).

How about this?

I edited my post. How about this? You stop gaining adrenaline at 3 bars anyway. Gaining adrenaline faster would only mean that you heal in shorter amount of time, before trait or burst cooldown ends. End result is the same, because of 3 bar adrenaline cap.

I put a possible solution for both, but no opinions? You rather argue why is worse to be melee or range… Back to the topic?

As long as Furious is fixed to actually give three strikes of adrenaline and have a 1 second internal cool-down, i’m fine with it affecting longbows.

However currently it would just be way to overpowered.

The problem with it, is Longbow would not only heal much easier/faster/better then melee, ranged warrior with the trait would have better sustain and an easier time to dump it. When Ranged Warrior doesn’t need it, Melee warrior does.

If I made a trait for example that was.

Adrenal Health
Gain health when you gain a strike of adrenaline. Gain health for every bar of adrenaline spent.
Healing: 150 (0.15) when you gain a strike of adrenaline
Healing: 600 (0.75) per bar of adrenaline spent.

This is pretty balanced for melee, because of all the damage they take and because its very hard to dump adrenaline with a melee weapon in real pvp, because of blinds and cripple, immobilize, melee stuns, melee pressure, everything that hits you when your in melee.

However, if you gave that to ranged… lol! you become extremely powerful! Now you have an easy way to heal up while kiting, running away and doing immense aoe damage! It would be overpowered because you gain strikes so easy, and dumb it even easier! While melee struggles to dump his adrenaline, your pretty much guaranteed to dump yours every 7ish seconds, while a melee could miss and have double or even triple that. Remember your also full adrenaline so you can’t dump, so while ranged pretty much dumps, hes still getting the strikes while melee is sitting with a thumb in his butt. Imagine if the Melee Warrior misses, now hes at full strikes of adrenaline and can’t gain anymore strikes, and he didn’t receive the healing from spending his adrenaline, meanwhile the ranged Warrior is always dumping his, always getting the strikes.

That is why I would either make it heal a lot less for ranged, or change it to not heal for range at all.

Just a personal vex of mine, I just don’t feel that warriors deserve that kind of healing from 1,200 range. My second toon is a necromancer… the ability to stand outside of the fray and lay down aoes and avoiding all that damage is amazing.

If people dont want to spend adrenaline they should roll a guardian.

I don’t know this sound to much like a soothing ripple type effect 15 point in water for ele. So it would be 15 points for burst healing? I don’t know just because a ele has it doesn’t mean a warrior should. It is similar enough that it would make warrior the best bunker in the game. You don’t die and you do way more damage than other bunkers.

This would make anyone running healing signet almost impossible to kill. You wouldn’t need to spec heavy crit chance just run unsuspecting foe. Run the signet of fury as others said this would make that a heal also. Put 30 in power for berserkers power, +10% for gs, 10 in arms, 15 in defense, 10 in tactics for either desperate power, or empowered, 15 in discipline you still get fast hands, and can take DOTE.

That would be +15%, 10%, empowered or desperate power, and DOTE. why would you take another bunker?

Tanky, with at least 4 +% damage traits, and burst healing, with over 2k power and at the minum 50% chance to crit everytime it stuns something, with good condi removal to boot. 15 crit damage 25 crit damage if you dont go tactics and go 25 in disc or you go 25 in arms. If this went to WvW it could be made even better with mix and matching cav and valks mix.

After reading these posts.. Just make “adrenal” health healing for 40hp/s, remove the need of adrenaline and done. Both sides are happy?

Fenrir.5493:

If people dont want to spend adrenaline they should roll a guardian.

I dare you to spam F1 on a GS or try to land a Kill Shot w/o getting interrupted or the target not getting into cover. Not to mention under water bursts. Some F1 abilities just suck and you simply make use of your adrenaline passivly.

Adrenal Health is fine as it is. Heal on burst would only force you to spam F1 and having it on cooldown when you need it most.

dukefx.9730:

Fenrir.5493:

If people dont want to spend adrenaline they should roll a guardian.

I dare you to spam F1 on a GS or try to land a Kill Shot w/o getting interrupted or the target not getting into cover. Not to mention under water bursts. Some F1 abilities just suck and you simply make use of your adrenaline passivly.

Adrenal Health is fine as it is. Heal on burst would only force you to spam F1 and having it on cooldown when you need it most.

If u got troubles landing underwater burst then i feel sorry for u. With so many tools we have there (gap closer, pull, immo, even knockback+pull combo) its hard to miss it 9/10

As for rest abilities they need to get reworked.

I think you don’t understand the meaning of too low damage and useless functions just like GS F1. Under water bursts have nothing to do with not being able to land them.

^

Harpoon = weaker version of killshot due to lower attack on weapon
Spear – aoe stun up to 5 targets, dmg wise bit stronger than hammer, no leap

That’s my point. I don’t need stuns when my regular skills can kill stuff just fine. Having to use those to get AH working… no ty

swap “Thick Skin” with “Adrenalin Health”, make it a 5-point minor trait

dukefx.9730:

Fenrir.5493:

If people dont want to spend adrenaline they should roll a guardian.

I dare you to spam F1 on a GS or try to land a Kill Shot w/o getting interrupted or the target not getting into cover. Not to mention under water bursts. Some F1 abilities just suck and you simply make use of your adrenaline passivly.

Adrenal Health is fine as it is. Heal on burst would only force you to spam F1 and having it on cooldown when you need it most.

Who said spam?, i love when people put words in my mouth, if you dont know how to use adrenaline wisely then how is that my problem?.