Guild Wars 2

by the devs. Here’s why. In order for the skill to work you need to have a target and hit it. Which means you can not use it on the run from some one and if there is add you need to actively engage it to get rid of the condition. However the real insult is blind. Now that blind has been buffed you can literally miss your burst get the cd and still have that condition on you. What makes it funnier is that currently it the main reason other classes saw few changes to condition builds. I in all honesty think we just got trolled by the devs.

For anyone who’s going to say lemon grass + melandru in WvW. Forget it I have heard that force yourself into one build nonsense before. Beside this being spvp problem also every class has access to this and isn’t as reliant on being in melee. We were promised in house condition management help. We got trolled instead and I for one find it hilarious.

Tl;DR

We got trolled by the devs between the damage reduction, the new blind, and cleansing ire. We’ll done Anet truly well done.

Well how would you do it, then?

Olba.5376:

Well how would you do it, then?

Trying to sound smart? I would have changed burst so you could pop the bar without a target. Which would let you opt out the damage for the cleanse. Same as when any class uses a movement skill to run away. You opt out of the damage component for the secondary.

Olba.5376:

Well how would you do it, then?

remove conditions on adrenalane bars gained. Simple, effective, and if it’s too strong put a time cap on it. Or make it so it removes condi’s and you don’t need to hit anything. As it is, try using this trait while blinded. It’s absolutely useless and serves as evidence that the devs are jumping into a vast blue ocean of unknown. Pretty moronic changes.

Also, if you pick up burst mastery, you can’t even remove 3, at most 2. They conflict with each other and there’s no reward for pairing traits. This discourages build variation, contrary to what they were trying to implement.

Putting CD on some of the blind skills so they can’t be constantly spammed or not making blind stack in duration would be a good start. Blind is really what renders cleansing Ire next to useless cause there are so many of them being thrown around all the time. You spend more time trying to remove the blinds then actually fighting. This last patch has made me put my warrior on the PvE only shelf.

I’d recommend lemon grass + melandru for your problem. Then again with lemon grass and melandru you wouldn’t even need Cleasing Ire =P

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Defense-Grandmaster-Trait-Indomitable

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Defense-Grandmaster-Trait-Indomitable

Why are you so obsessed with that thing?

Why isn’t it enough that we got some condition removal? What makes you believe that we need two traits, both at 20 points in different trait lines, that convert conditions into boons?

remove conditions on adrenalane bars gained. Simple, effective, and if it’s too strong put a time cap on it. Or make it so it removes condi’s and you don’t need to hit anything. As it is, try using this trait while blinded. It’s absolutely useless and serves as evidence that the devs are jumping into a vast blue ocean of unknown. Pretty moronic changes.

I’ve mentioned multiple times that converting conditions on adrenaline gained has various issues:

• Signet of Fury and Healing Surge would have to be exceptions, otherwise SoF is overpowered and Mending useless.
• Nerfs to Furious, Sharpened Axes and Burst Mastery required to balance it out

Also, if you pick up burst mastery, you can’t even remove 3, at most 2. They conflict with each other and there’s no reward for pairing traits. This discourages build variation, contrary to what they were trying to implement.

Now that should be looked into. Though who knows, just the implementation might be tricky with non-full adrenaline bars. And even then, there’s the question of whether the developers would consider it balanced. We’re talking 3 conditions removed every 7 seconds, after all.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Defense-Grandmaster-Trait-Indomitable

Why are you so obsessed with that thing?

Why isn’t it enough that we got some condition removal? What makes you believe that we need two traits, both at 20 points in different trait lines, that convert conditions into boons?

remove conditions on adrenalane bars gained. Simple, effective, and if it’s too strong put a time cap on it. Or make it so it removes condi’s and you don’t need to hit anything. As it is, try using this trait while blinded. It’s absolutely useless and serves as evidence that the devs are jumping into a vast blue ocean of unknown. Pretty moronic changes.

I’ve mentioned multiple times that converting conditions on adrenaline gained has various issues:

• Signet of Fury and Healing Surge would have to be exceptions, otherwise SoF is overpowered and Mending useless.
• Nerfs to Furious, Sharpened Axes and Burst Mastery required to balance it out

Also, if you pick up burst mastery, you can’t even remove 3, at most 2. They conflict with each other and there’s no reward for pairing traits. This discourages build variation, contrary to what they were trying to implement.

Now that should be looked into. Though who knows, just the implementation might be tricky with non-full adrenaline bars. And even then, there’s the question of whether the developers would consider it balanced. We’re talking 3 conditions removed every 7 seconds, after all.

I’m sorry, but to be honest the math is like that, then in actually play its quite different. Its more like 0 conditions removed because our attacks are so easy to avoid/blind/predictable/dodge/evade/invuln. We have problems hitting the target …

Well, A-Net thought it saw fit that staff 4 on necros would transfer blinds for some odd reason but for warriors. Nope, considering how many of our burst are melee it means we run into every single blinds.
But yes, a number of classes have very easy access to blind and wow does it render warriors completely worthless when they kick in. It’s not applied once, its constantly reapplied.

Olba.5376:

Why isn’t it enough that we got some condition removal?

Because, to a game that concetrates around Condition-spamming is not enough.

We’re talking 3 conditions removed every 7 seconds, after all.

Yes, but in return we are getting 6+ conditions every second, through spamming. Did I mentioned the Fear, torment and blind also ?

Regards

Seed

If your talking about WvW, the only time I ever find Blind being a problem is Necro – Plague and its your own fault for being blind irl and walking into that necro in visible plague form. Its like walking into their spectral wall field and going “omg fear”. You set yourself up for it. You cant just blindly run in and spam things and expect perfect results. Other than necro’s, blind isnt a big issue.

Olba.5376:

Well how would you do it, then?

Make it so that if I would be able to remove blind before its duration expires (auto-attack, condition remove, etc.), I would be immune from further application of blinds for a set of given time (whatever works for you as per your balance concerns i.e. 1 second)

It won’t look OP imo since I’d probably swing wildly first before using my Earthshaker, which in the given time frame anything could happen.

The issue is that Cleasing Ire, as written in tooltip, “Removes conditions on adrenaline bar spent”.
Shame that Anet, for god know which reason, probably hand-holding ppl, made that missing a burst puts it on CD but do NOT deplets your adrenaline bar.

So, miss the burst (you’re bad/blinded), it goes on CD but do not deplets adrenaline thus do not removes conditions.

Simple fix:
-Burst skills missing now depletes adrenaline (both for this trait and for some more meaningful bursting timing)
-C Ire applies before burst lands.

i think the trait is fine doing really good in spvp with it but i do not GET why Every godkitten single proffesion got so much blind so much freakn blind isnt it enough with our obvious animation that is easy to dodge

Make blind limited, make it so if you are blinded you cannot be blind for the next 5sec those blind spams are ANNOYING

cleansing ire is actually a player suggestion in the forum

That’s the issue I saw already from reading the leaked patch notes.a moderate fix would be cleansing ire removes as many conditions as we have adrenaline bars the moment we start the burst.

AndrewSX.3794:

Simple fix:
-Burst skills missing now depletes adrenaline (both for this trait and for some more meaningful bursting timing)

This would be a tremendous nerf to any build not running Cleansing Ire… and you are here flaming the devs for being short sighted…

Suppose for a moment I have a powerful need to murder a warrior…

…What are these speed-blinder builds we’re talking about?

The ones that come to mind for me are all pulsing fields I can move out of and start ranged fire back into while I wait for the field to collapse. Ranged bursts quickly come into play as serviceable ways to dump adrenaline for cleansing.

All this hassle could have been avoided if they would have made the trait remove conditions on GAINING a bar, instead of losing…. Isn’t the whole idea that warriors get stronger when gaining adrenaline? Like, a human?

Soldier runes, shout removes conditions. Take shake it off, activate it right before you hit. It will remove the blind and make you hit.

You can make earthshaker hit for 100% of the times. Only defense your enemies can have is stability.

MiLkZz.4789:

Soldier runes, shout removes conditions. Take shake it off, activate it right before you hit. It will remove the blind and make you hit.

You can make earthshaker hit for 100% of the times. Only defense your enemies can have is stability.

And dodge, invulnerability, mobility, line of sight, terrain, aegis and immobilizing you.

I’m leaving something out. I know it.

Obstruction on a level open plane LoL.

Break Cleansing Ire into to traits!

1: Remove conditions every 10s equal to the amount of adrenaline you have.
2: Remove conditions equal to the amount of adrenaline you spend.

:O

Cygnus.6903:

MiLkZz.4789:

Soldier runes, shout removes conditions. Take shake it off, activate it right before you hit. It will remove the blind and make you hit.

You can make earthshaker hit for 100% of the times. Only defense your enemies can have is stability.

And dodge, invulnerability, mobility, line of sight, terrain, aegis and immobilizing you.

I’m leaving something out. I know it.

Take mobile strikes and have stability on. If they use their invulnerability skill for a skill on a 7s cd than that is their problem. Terrain is not knowing how hammerstun works and wrong placement on your part. You should not open with it on a guardian no.

Dodge counters every attack and you should lure those out first anyway (backbreaker for example). You got to use your brain ofcourse to land it.

This thread is hilarious, I use cleansing Ire in WvW…….. I have no problems with getting it off because I dont’ stand in necro wells and am actively paying attention to my screen when in combat. If I get a blind stacked on me I use shake it off and then my combo is Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, Earthshaker and then Whirling Axe (traited for 50% more crit chance against stunned enemies and crits with axe gives more adrenaline), couple all of that with cleansing Ire and Shake it off and I can remove 4 conditions on myself as a zerker warrior. No idea what all the QQ is about.

Or ya know because WvW is designed around multiple people being there, you can just walk into a friendly Necro Well or a friendly null field and have all your conditions stripped. But ya know who uses strategy and knowledge in WvW these days.

Paxi.1386:

WvW

We thanks u sir

Cygnus.6903:

MiLkZz.4789:

Soldier runes, shout removes conditions. Take shake it off, activate it right before you hit. It will remove the blind and make you hit.

You can make earthshaker hit for 100% of the times. Only defense your enemies can have is stability.

And dodge, invulnerability, mobility, line of sight, terrain, aegis and immobilizing you.

I’m leaving something out. I know it.

Blind.

Daecollo.9578:

Cygnus.6903:

MiLkZz.4789:

Soldier runes, shout removes conditions. Take shake it off, activate it right before you hit. It will remove the blind and make you hit.

You can make earthshaker hit for 100% of the times. Only defense your enemies can have is stability.

And dodge, invulnerability, mobility, line of sight, terrain, aegis and immobilizing you.

I’m leaving something out. I know it.

Blind.

Is what you are, not seeing that blind was the condition we were talking about right from the start.

If Cleansing Ire went off just before the attack landed, it’d be a lot better! As it is, my earthshakers have a bad habit of missing, because I get blinded just before or during the painfully long 3/4 cast time.

Actually earthshaker seems to take about 2 seconds from button press, to actually finally making the hit. Anyone else have that issue?

Dand.8231:

If Cleansing Ire went off just before the attack landed, it’d be a lot better! As it is, my earthshakers have a bad habit of missing, because I get blinded just before or during the painfully long 3/4 cast time.

Actually earthshaker seems to take about 2 seconds from button press, to actually finally making the hit. Anyone else have that issue?

Every ability that warrior has and offers something betetr has obvious, long cast animation. Warrior is the olny one class that has so many long animations. On top of that reworked sword with final thrust has even longer animation than double evi.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Dand.8231:

If Cleansing Ire went off just before the attack landed, it’d be a lot better! As it is, my earthshakers have a bad habit of missing, because I get blinded just before or during the painfully long 3/4 cast time.

Actually earthshaker seems to take about 2 seconds from button press, to actually finally making the hit. Anyone else have that issue?

Every ability that warrior has and offers something betetr has obvious, long cast animation. Warrior is the olny one class that has so many long animations. On top of that reworked sword with final thrust has even longer animation than double evi.

Yep. Lulz!

Veritas.6071:

AndrewSX.3794:

Simple fix:
-Burst skills missing now depletes adrenaline (both for this trait and for some more meaningful bursting timing)

This would be a tremendous nerf to any build not running Cleansing Ire… and you are here flaming the devs for being short sighted…

You miss the burst, you’re punished for using at wrong time.

I’m surprised it isn’t already this way. Oh, forgot the dumbing down Anet policy.

AndrewSX.3794:

Veritas.6071:

AndrewSX.3794:

Simple fix:
-Burst skills missing now depletes adrenaline (both for this trait and for some more meaningful bursting timing)

This would be a tremendous nerf to any build not running Cleansing Ire… and you are here flaming the devs for being short sighted…

You miss the burst, you’re punished for using at wrong time.

I’m surprised it isn’t already this way. Oh, forgot the dumbing down Anet policy.

Lose adrenaline if blocked.
Lose full effect of adrenaline if interrupted in mid cast in most cases.
Forced into cooldown if you’re blinded, dodged, invul, feared, obstructed, interrupted, not close enough as well as the wasted effects above also trigger the CD.

So, how again are warriors not already getting punished for the many ways to prevent warriors for using the ability? Right, remove the ability to recover quickly from any of those period. Let’s just empty it. It’s not like there’s other traits based on adrenaline either or damage is needed. All they need is cleansing ire.

So, let’s say that Warrior burst mechanics changed, so that the adrenaline is used on a burst regardless of whether or not it hits or misses. This means that you can guarantee the benefits of Cleansing Ire right?
Rightly so.
But changing such mechanic will just kitten the adrenaline system and we will be constantly spending and/or wasting our adrenaline even if our F1 skills miss. It is such a waste, seriously. I do not want to be forced to build up adrenaline again just because I missed my F1. Especially not after the changes to blind.

But Yoshioka, how else are we gonna hit our F1?

There are so many different ways to chain CC’s in order to hit your F1. Shield Bash is an example. So is Bull Rush. Maybe instead of just spamming skills in which ever fashion you want, think about when and where to use them, in order to, not only maximize effectiveness on opponents, but on yourself. Grow up kiddies, Cleansing Ire was one of the best additions to this god-forsaken patch.

JoakimFA.4713:

Grow up kiddies, Cleansing Ire was one of the best additions to this god-forsaken patch.

I’m not really complaining about Cleansing Ire, per-say, just saying it would be better off proccing just before the burst skills instead of after.

Not to rant, but another weird thing I noticed about earthshaker…. blind causes my attack to miss all 4 opponents in my AOE. Ok, so I guess it’s a single attack. But when I used signet of might to smash a guardian mid-shelter cast, it must have used up my 3 unblockable stacks on the necro and his pets, and the guardian gave me a BLOCK… so…uh… wth?

If it’s a single attack, shouldn’t it have used only a single Signet of Might buff? And if it’s multiple attacks, shouldn’t the first opponent I MISS clear blind and the rest get hit? Whats the deal?!

Cleansing Ire wasn’t really worth the nerfs…

Dand.8231:

JoakimFA.4713:

Grow up kiddies, Cleansing Ire was one of the best additions to this god-forsaken patch.

I’m not really complaining about Cleansing Ire, per-say, just saying it would be better off proccing just before the burst skills instead of after.

I’m sorry if you had felt offended by that, but I wasn’t directing that towards you hehe.

Not to rant, but another weird thing I noticed about earthshaker…. blind causes my attack to miss all 4 opponents in my AOE. Ok, so I guess it’s a single attack. But when I used signet of might to smash a guardian mid-shelter cast, it must have used up my 3 unblockable stacks on the necro and his pets, and the guardian gave me a BLOCK… so…uh… wth?

If it’s a single attack, shouldn’t it have used only a single Signet of Might buff? And if it’s multiple attacks, shouldn’t the first opponent I MISS clear blind and the rest get hit? Whats the deal?!

#warriorproblems

TheGuy.3568:

by the devs. Here’s why. In order for the skill to work you need to have a target and hit it. Which means you can not use it on the run from some one and if there is add you need to actively engage it to get rid of the condition.

L2P

ProxyDamage.9826:

TheGuy.3568:

by the devs. Here’s why. In order for the skill to work you need to have a target and hit it. Which means you can not use it on the run from some one and if there is add you need to actively engage it to get rid of the condition.

L2P

Truly insightful. Of the 9 burst skills one allows you to opt out of the damage. However, for the other 8 the problem remains. Cleansing ire is a trait that is supposed to help with condition management that can be made nigh useless by one of those said conditions. On top of that compared to other condition management skills it is one of the few that requires you to stay actively engaged to keep conditions off you. This is not a L2P issue but a bad design issue. It is not secret many of you use many tricks/tactics to handle conditions in WvW, but as I said before that does not matter. The issue revolves around the devs making us a promise to truly help us with condition management through traits. In order to do this they told us (or at the very least implied) we would have to lose some DPS traits or see them moved. That has already happened, but the benefit from the loss is non existent. In spvp the problem is more prevalent. Because players are forced into a small space many classes spam their blind making many warrior builds ineffective as it is.

TheGuy.3568:

Truly insightful. Of the 9 burst skills one allows you to opt out of the damage. However, for the other 8 the problem remains. Cleansing ire is a trait that is supposed to help with condition management that can be made nigh useless by one of those said conditions. On top of that compared to other condition management skills it is one of the few that requires you to stay actively engaged to keep conditions off you. This is not a L2P issue but a bad design issue. It is not secret many of you use many tricks/tactics to handle conditions in WvW, but as I said before that does not matter. The issue revolves around the devs making us a promise to truly help us with condition management through traits. In order to do this they told us (or at the very least implied) we would have to lose some DPS traits or see them moved. That has already happened, but the benefit from the loss is non existent. In spvp the problem is more prevalent. Because players are forced into a small space many classes spam their blind making many warrior builds ineffective as it is.

Your statement was incorrect.

I agree that this pigeonholes warriors into longbow, but what you said was still not completely true. We have a way around it.

Honestly there is an easy to fix it too. Stop the “hand holding” crap and just let warriors burn adrenaline when they use burst, even if it is on thin air. Places more emphasizes on being precise instead of spamming till it hits, and gives more value to adrenaline gaining traits (which right now are rather “meh” at best).

Too harsh perhaps, true, but I’m just too used to the current “WARRIORS SUCK AT EVERYTHIGN PVP FOREVER caUSE I CAN’T HB EVERYOEN WAHHH!” from the forums that it just… pops out I suppose.

MiLkZz.4789:

Take mobile strikes and have stability on. If they use their invulnerability skill for a skill on a 7s cd than that is their problem. Terrain is not knowing how hammerstun works and wrong placement on your part. You should not open with it on a guardian no.

Dodge counters every attack and you should lure those out first anyway (backbreaker for example). You got to use your brain ofcourse to land it.

I’d rather not use mobile strikes as it only cleanses immobilize, but point taken. I use melandru/lemongrass/dogged march to reduce all movement impairing conditions to near nothing.

Having stability on is easier said then done. Even if you take 2 ways of getting it, that’s only 16-18 seconds of stability and thus only 2-3 earthshakers. Not too hard to dodge/kite/whatever.

You say using invulnerability on a 7 sec CD skill (which is actually 7,75 sec) is their problem… Blurred frenzy bro. 10 sec CD, traited.

And terrain can always mess with shaker. I’ve used a hammer quite successfully in WvW, had a lot of fun. Some good duels with nicely skilled players, and won a fair deal. Usually, terrain issues can be avoided, but it’s not uncommon to make a mistake, even when experienced.

Guardians with their virtues aren’t the only ones capable of getting aegis. Besides, that guardian can activate his virtue to activate aegis. But what about mesmers? They can get random aegis a lot..

I fully agree with you in that you have to use your brain to land it. That’s the thing with the warrior class, we get punished badly for not being completely aware of our situation, buffs on our opponents, etc.

I love it.

You can’t use food in SPVP.

JoakimFA.4713:

So, let’s say that Warrior burst mechanics changed, so that the adrenaline is used on a burst regardless of whether or not it hits or misses. This means that you can guarantee the benefits of Cleansing Ire right?
Rightly so.
But changing such mechanic will just kitten the adrenaline system and we will be constantly spending and/or wasting our adrenaline even if our F1 skills miss. It is such a waste, seriously. I do not want to be forced to build up adrenaline again just because I missed my F1. Especially not after the changes to blind.

But Yoshioka, how else are we gonna hit our F1?

There are so many different ways to chain CC’s in order to hit your F1. Shield Bash is an example. So is Bull Rush. Maybe instead of just spamming skills in which ever fashion you want, think about when and where to use them, in order to, not only maximize effectiveness on opponents, but on yourself. Grow up kiddies, Cleansing Ire was one of the best additions to this god-forsaken patch.

How long have you played warrior? I ask that question out of curiosity. Since we the “kiddies” have no clue what we are talking about. First off your chain Cc combo is the same one I use on my toon. I play Sw/Sh + GS and have done so for the past 3-4 months. That whole time in WvW alteast bull rush has sat on my bar. Now I do not have many issue roaming. However, if you played that build you would understand there are limits to your logic.

First Off bull rush and to a much greater extent shied bash have pathing issues. They have a tendency to miss moving targets. Sword while a lovely weapon has kitten range (true 130 melee). What good about it is it has the best lock down burst beside earthshaker and skull crack. Axe’s eviscerate is largely telegraphed. You also forget the fact that many run stun breakers and stability. Forgetting about dodging, environment, their cc, shadowsteps, teleports and last but certainly not least blinds.

Adrenaline is easily gained. Every warrior know this. You gain in strike per hit which equals 3.3% of the bar. If you run cleansing ire which is merged with the old trait embrace the pain you get one strike on being hit. It takes 30 strikes to gain a full bar.Not forgetting about the numerous traits that help you gain and keep adrenaline. Having adrenaline spent on cast would only hurt build that need to retain adrenaline. None of which would use a skill like cleansing ire as it would be counter intuitive.

Let me inform you of something. I have yet to meet a warrior who just spammed their skills. Despite the classes simple design it takes actual skill to pull any kittening thing off with this class. You haven’t enlightened us. We have been running chain CC combos for months and we just happen to know the limits. Despite your trepidation the right move would have been to let us use the bar at will. Target or no target. Hit or miss.

ProxyDamage.9826:

TheGuy.3568:

Truly insightful. Of the 9 burst skills one allows you to opt out of the damage. However, for the other 8 the problem remains.

Your statement was incorrect.

I agree that this pigeonholes warriors into longbow, but what you said was still not completely true. We have a way around it.

Honestly there is an easy to fix it too. Stop the “hand holding” crap and just let warriors burn adrenaline when they use burst, even if it is on thin air. Places more emphasizes on being precise instead of spamming till it hits, and gives more value to adrenaline gaining traits (which right now are rather “meh” at best).

L2R instead of arguing with those who agree with you

Olba.5376:

Well how would you do it, then?

Trying to sound smart? I would have changed burst so you could pop the bar without a target. Which would let you opt out the damage for the cleanse. Same as when any class uses a movement skill to run away. You opt out of the damage component for the secondary.

I think they could make it better if it removed a condition every bar of adrenaline gained instead of on burst use.
This would still encourage using the burst skill since you can’t remove condis w/ out emptying then refilling your bar.
It would work passively rather than on an activation, and would not require a nearby target.

Run longbow. Pop fire field. Done.

TheGuy.3568:

L2R instead of arguing with those who agree with you

But I’m not agreeing with you. You start from a flawed point and end in an erroneous conclusion. I know you can’t tell the difference, but there is one.

Change the logic.

Using burst skills when you hit takes conditions off before the attack hits, when adrenaline is spent.

Still think we should have two f button skills for dual hand weapons and one for main and one for off hand skills. Them we can use adrenaline defensively too.