Guild Wars 2

I actually did cry a little bit when I saw the kittenation of the stats. Rush on The warrior has
Damage: 628
Range: 1,200 (source: GW2 wiki)
The Cooldown is 20 seconds (16 while spec’d) and takes 2 seconds to travel max range not to mention a long attack animation.
Now lets look at swoop which is a ranger skill (I can hear the collective groans begin already)
Damage: 517
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 1,100 (source: GW2 wiki)
Already I think ppl know this just doesnt add up. It gets better my friends… It gets better. This attack is on a 12 second CD unspec’d and takes 1 3/4 seconds to reach max range (I think this is inaccurate if you have ever seen how fast it is) and its a FREAKIN LEAP FINISHER! This attack hit almost the instant it lands with a superfast attack animation and hits all foes in an AOE around the main target as opposed to Rush hitting one single target. (or failing to hit rather)

I for one am outraged that a class made for sitting back and damaging from afar would get a completely superior gap closer that is not only more effective but also more boss looking. If people want to try and say warriors are not underpowered fine you dont have to but you cannot say that the warrior doesnt need to be at least at par with the other classes abilities especially when the other class isnt made for that type of combat in the first place. Please comment what you think and post any other failed skill logics along with a decent explanation.

Mesmers get a Greatsword right So I can compare. Omg the mirror blade looks like blade trail but they throw it faster than us. They also get a knockback in melee range I thought they are a caster and they should do some kind of hand wavy thing to push enemy back.

Warriors sprouting holographic wings and flying doesnt even fit to warriors.

The only problem with rush is the end of the attack losing tracking or not firing at all. Other than that I think rush is fine it hits like a truck. Neither of the 2 attacks are particularly difficult to dodge to be honest.

I’d be okay with Rush not having such a slow kitten buggy attack at the end of it’s slow kitten buggy run, since the attack is also ruined by cripple and chill.

You’re a funny, funny guy.

Okay, I’ll humor you:

Why does the Warrior’s greatsword have 2 movement abilities while the Ranger’s only has Swoop?

Why does the Warrior’s greatsword hit 5 targets while the Ranger’s hits 3?

Why does the Warrior’s greatsword have much better trait support?

Why does the Warrior’s greatsword deal more damage than the Ranger and his pet put together?

You’re comparing apples to oranges. You can’t compare one ability from each weapon and say “Class x is worse off because Class y has a superior skill z.”

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Okay, I’ll humor you:

You’re comparing apples to oranges. You can’t compare one ability from each weapon and say “Class x is worse off because Class y has a superior skill z.”

You are correct, I was amused by your comment.

1) The Ranger has a pet and doesn’t need to be in melee range to deal his max amount of damage at all times. His pet can sub in and actually CC the target for him to close gaps… so he really doesn’t need any gap closer to start.

If a Warrior is using Greatsword he needs to stay in melee range to do anything. The two “gap” closers on greatsword are questionable at best. Rush is horrible in almost all situations except straight runs (which only noobs run straight in sPvP when trying to escape a Warrior or in general. Best to zig and zag to confuse them and keep them guessing). Whirldwind is not a gap closer in a traditional sense but more of a evading attacking avoid high burst to stay in melee longer (also the range is very low to be consider a gap closer when most “escape” moves are 1000 range or longer).

2) That is straight out false. The Warrior’s greatsword attacks only hit 3 targets max with Skill 1, 2. It can hit up to 5 targets with Skill 3. It can hit as many targets that are in the path with skill 4, and only 1 with skill 5.

3) Trait support? There is literally only 2 trait that affects the greatsword.

Now the traits that affect the greatsword: “Forceful Greatsword” which reduces cool down by 20% and gives might on critical for greatsword and spear. “Slashing Power”, which increases the damage by 10% of both spear and greatsword.

….and there you have it! All of those plentiful traits…… all two of them.

Quickly looking over the ranger traits it seems they have 2 traits that affect the greatsword (as well as other things).

4) So… you are complaining about a Warrior who has to spend 100% of his time in melee range to do anything that deals maybe…. maybe 10%-20% more damage than a ranger that is full berserker while being 10000000000 times more likely to die.

You deal less damage because no range in any game will ever out damage a melee. It would be stupid if they did. Granted the numbers are not even that big of a difference in most situations which is why Guild Wars 2 should be renamed Ranged Wars 2. Ranged is seriously over powered in this game for any type of PvP (or the PvD {player versus Door}). Have you not noticed that Warriors are completely stripped of anything in PvP? Our 10-20% more damage does nothing against your ranged burst/boons/defensive abilities/and the naturally awesome weapons you have. Seriously, you have the same amount of evades on sword/dagger as a Warrior with greatsword plus his dodges (lets not forget to mention that yours are on shorter cool down).

Also, just for kicks, you have to compare professions…. this is how you, I don’t know, BALANCE the game.

edit: Correction on trait.

I think Vanthian is having a tough time in PvP. But seriously, you’re right. At the moment Warriors are just Thieves without stealth and with less evades, our damage is comparable as is our healing. We have terrible ranged weapon choices in comparison, e.g they have blindness spam, unload spam, perma interrupt. We have… That really cool thing where we shoot slightly faster for a few seconds, but oh look it got interrupted anyway.
I would gladly trade my “super high base HP” for a shot at landing 90% of my bursts. But really, as long as stealth and clones exist there can be no balance.
A few minor tweaks such as making all of our attacks do exactly what they are supposed to do, buffing our healing abilities, changing +3% burst damage to at least +15%, getting rid of +50% damage taken during Frenzy, lowering the CD of SoS could start to bring us up to speed with a few of the other professions.

Dolan.3071:

I think Vanthian is having a tough time in PvP. But seriously, you’re right. At the moment Warriors are just Thieves without stealth and with less evades, our damage is comparable as is our healing. We have terrible ranged weapon choices in comparison, e.g they have blindness spam, unload spam, perma interrupt. We have… That really cool thing where we shoot slightly faster for a few seconds, but oh look it got interrupted anyway.
I would gladly trade my “super high base HP” for a shot at landing 90% of my bursts. But really, as long as stealth and clones exist there can be no balance.
A few minor tweaks such as making all of our attacks do exactly what they are supposed to do, buffing our healing abilities, changing +3% burst damage to at least +15%, getting rid of +50% damage taken during Frenzy, lowering the CD of SoS could start to bring us up to speed with a few of the other professions.

Do thieves have group cc, group buffs and instant revives?
Warriors got way more than dps. Just grab a hammer and see what I’m talking about.
And about Swoop: It’s one of the few really good skills, ranger actually has…

Vanthian.9267:

1) The Ranger has a pet and doesn’t need to be in melee range to deal his max amount of damage at all times. His pet can sub in and actually CC the target for him to close gaps… so he really doesn’t need any gap closer to start.

If a Warrior is using Greatsword he needs to stay in melee range to do anything.

I is so confused!?! Are these guys for reals? Ranger envy?

Who’s next? Engineers?

The funny things about these threads is that it lets you know 2 things.

First that many players see skills from other classes and instantly claim imbalance. The second is that it lets you know most players don’t really play multiple classes.

Lets try to put this in perspective.

GS on ranger is mostly a defensive weapon. Due to ranger having kittenty stun breaker cool downs and relatively bad base defense. If you examine the skills 1 has a random evade, 2 is a bleed, 3 is movement, 4 is a block/knockback/cripple, and 5 is a daze/stun. The weapon is primarily designed to Protect the ranger and cc the target as the pet does damage (see skill 5). Now GS for warrior is a melee dps weapon designed to do maximum damage vs a non moving target. Its a DPS weapon through and through.

I think comparing GS for warrior and ranger is a little pointless. Factually warriors can and will attain higher dps that a similarly traited ranger ie traited for maximum dps. In fact if the warrior ranger hit the same target the warrior will decrease the rangers dps by applying bleeds himself (traited GS build).

The other issue is pets are buggy and often have issue hitting moving targets. Even when it comes to utility skills rangers are on long CD and often aren’t very useful to parties (traps being the exception). Rangers are a pretty kittenty class overall in comparison to warrior.

BTW comparing our ranged options to rangers we win hands down. Even just comparing CrossfIre to Bleeding Shot for condition specs there is gap. Shortbow can apply more bleeds but require positioning to do so. and the postining would have to be constant due short bleed duration.

Rifle has short base cooldowns does decent damage and has some CC. Shortbow has relatively short cds some cc and decent condition up time and coverage. There is gap where rifle makes the better power hybrid weapon even when accounting for the pet.

Rush does need improvements but I think this is clearly an apples vs oranges issue and that the OP’s outrage is entirely unnecessary. Play ranger for 50 hours or so and you’ll likely come running back to warrior though you may love it. Either way play before you post.

naphack.9346:

Dolan.3071:

I think Vanthian is having a tough time in PvP. But seriously, you’re right. At the moment Warriors are just Thieves without stealth and with less evades, our damage is comparable as is our healing. We have terrible ranged weapon choices in comparison, e.g they have blindness spam, unload spam, perma interrupt. We have… That really cool thing where we shoot slightly faster for a few seconds, but oh look it got interrupted anyway.
I would gladly trade my “super high base HP” for a shot at landing 90% of my bursts. But really, as long as stealth and clones exist there can be no balance.
A few minor tweaks such as making all of our attacks do exactly what they are supposed to do, buffing our healing abilities, changing +3% burst damage to at least +15%, getting rid of +50% damage taken during Frenzy, lowering the CD of SoS could start to bring us up to speed with a few of the other professions.

Do thieves have group cc, group buffs and instant revives?
Warriors got way more than dps. Just grab a hammer and see what I’m talking about.
And about Swoop: It’s one of the few really good skills, ranger actually has…

What the two Hammer attacks that you can see coming from a mile away? That will usually miss regardless of where you are? Buffs being a few stacks of might and Fury? The singular revive skill we have that no one uses because it has a 2 hour cooldown and takes almost as long to drop?

The post wasn’t claiming Swoop to OP, it was claiming Rush to be UP, which it is given its current state of buginess.

Ezeriel.9574:

Vanthian.9267:

1) The Ranger has a pet and doesn’t need to be in melee range to deal his max amount of damage at all times. His pet can sub in and actually CC the target for him to close gaps… so he really doesn’t need any gap closer to start.

If a Warrior is using Greatsword he needs to stay in melee range to do anything.

I is so confused!?! Are these guys for reals? Ranger envy?

Who’s next? Engineers?

I feel more threatened by a Ranger than a Warrior…

Ezeriel.9574:

Vanthian.9267:

1) The Ranger has a pet and doesn’t need to be in melee range to deal his max amount of damage at all times. His pet can sub in and actually CC the target for him to close gaps… so he really doesn’t need any gap closer to start.

If a Warrior is using Greatsword he needs to stay in melee range to do anything.

I is so confused!?! Are these guys for reals? Ranger envy?

Who’s next? Engineers?

Rangers actually aren’t that bad right now. I always see all these posts about how UP Ranger is. or Engineer is, yet, some of the strongest people in the spvp setting are Rangers and Engineers. Warriors are in the worst spot right now, and Vanthian, who is an excellent warrior by the way, speaks more in the spvp sense I believe.

Seriously, Ranger’s really aren’t in that bad of a state right now, in comparison to a warrior, the only thing warrior has is damage as an innate class specialty, which is complete stupidity, as its all so predictable I could evade warrior attacks in my sleep. The only time Warriors become assets to a team rather than a free rally for the other team because we all know that as soon as you focus a warrior with 2 or more players, they’re screwed, is large battles where their CC, general all round martial support etc, is very effective, and in PvE.

A class shouldn’t feel only effective in special situations, thats not fair. Having played all the classes for fair amounts of time, (I had a class identity crisis where I couldn’t decide a main) Warrior was by far one of the most challenging outside of General PvE and CoF farming.

Ele D/D was faceroll and possibly the easiest spec I’ve ever played, seriously, I’ll record it one day but, I can take on 2 people by pressing 2345, on everything but earth, where I only use Churning Earth in special circumstances as its too slow, and makes me vulnerable, then swapping attunes win, without using more than 1 Cantrip.

Rangers, Spam traps and run around bunkering while my pet does damage a bunker shouldnt be able to on the point and keep it.

Guardian? All that sustain.

Engineer? When played to their potential has all the tools needed to counter most if not every class.

Mesmer? Most players got outsmarted by the simplest tricks, but a bag full of tricks, like a thief with a backup posse.

Thieves? Admittedly the 2nd hardest for me to play oddly enough, I put time into it, and only managed to beat people who weren’t the newest of new when I learned to time, position and keep away from unnecessary damage.

Necromancer? So much CC and corruption+conditions that I think I’d literally laugh at warriors with /laugh most of the time.

Warrior? One of the hardest things I’ve ever had to play competitively. Timing, positioning, not blowing your cool downs at stupid times, taking risks and hits for the pay off damage you output, effectively managing your kite options, etc etc…

I don’t see how anyone who’s played more than just a ranger could ever say they were in a bad spot, especially in comparison to warriors. Rangers need tune-ups, Warriors need a re-haul.

“Seriously, Ranger’s really aren’t in that bad of a state right now, in comparison to a warrior”

I wish people would add lines such as “in PvP” to the end of those sentences. Warriors totally are out of sight of rangers when it comes to PvE.

Thats agreeable, but that applies to almost every class but, Guardian, Mesmer and Warrior. So its not a specific ranger issue, but more so a issue to do with classes being outdone by others in PvE and PvE Mechanics.

I mean, pve is all about enemies with loads of hp who do a lot of damage right? High End Pve Anyway, that favours Guardians, and warriors because Guardians mitigate damage and warriors do damage. Mesmers help because they have useful innate skills.

Say, if they were to add sections into dungeons where you could fight a golem boss head on but it would be very difficult, or you could send an AI Pet (Ranger pets) through a small “crack” to disable the life support systems of the Golem and make it heaps easier, Rangers would be an asset to have, you know?

About Rush vs Swoop again:

Cooldown: Warrior is supposed to rush in, then plant his feet on the ground and pound the everlasting daylight out of his opponents. Ranger has a shorter cd, cause they are supposed to be a skirmisher. Hop in, hop out… Or hop out, hop in. Once a warrior leaves the scene, he is supposed to run.

—> Cooldown is a design decision.

Animation speed of attack: Again, a design decision. Rush should be mainly a gap closer. It’s a heavy armor class, so it rushes in, brushes off everything and gets ready to unleash a DEVASTATING ATTACK (in this case cancels the rush to go straight for hundred blades, cause he just happens to stay in a huge group and doesn’t want them to scatter during the embarassingly long animation on rush)

Multihit: Not sure about that one I’d actually be fine with single target on swoop if the skill actually DEALT THE DAMAGE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO!
Currently, Swoop deals only 2/3rd the damage, it’s actually supposed to do according to tooltip.
To test this out, go to the mists, take a steady greatsword, maul a dummy, then swoop it, and compare the numbers. Then compare the results to what they should be like according to the tooltip. (at least it should still be bugged unless it was ninja fixed)

Anyway, I actually like the way, the greatswords are made. Currently, I have more issues with Ranger GS(friggin root on Block throw) than with the warrior gs.

I agree that Rush needs work, but asking for a Warrior Buff by pointing at Rangers pretty severely undermines your credibility.

Vanthian.9267:

3) Trait support? There is literally only 3 trait that affects the greatsword.

Now the traits that affect the greatsword: “Forceful Greatsword” which reduces cool down by 20% and gives might on critical for greatsword and spear. “Slashing Power”, which increases the damage by 10% of both spear and greatsword. Then you also have “Blademaster” which increases critical hit chance by 10% while welding a sword.

….and there you have it! All of those plentiful traits…… all three of them…..out of 60 total traits… for a percentage of 5%. So… 5% of the Warrior’s trait are for greatsword (including the ones that do something for other weapons as well).

Quickly looking over the ranger traits it seems they have 2 traits that affect the greatsword (as well as other things). So they have 3.333% of all their traits for greatsword… Of which you get a damage increase by half the amount of the Warriors and get the same cooldown reduction but no might on critical.

This is funny because most weapons for any given profession do not have 3 or more traits supporting them – in fact, quite a few don’t even have one.

Forceful Greatsword is so far superior to Martial Mastery that it isn’t even funny. Martial forces you to go a melee-only Ranger to get its full benefit, which is only cooldown reduction. Forceful Greatsword is one of the best cooldown reduction traits in the game.

The 5% damage increase from Two Handed Training is a joke considering it requires you to spec 20 points into the worst trait line for the Ranger profession – a trait line that has little to no synergy with the Greatsword.

Couple this with the fact that the Ranger’s GS does less base damage than the Warrior’s even when you factor the pet in. Why? It’s a defensive weapon. A defensive weapon with terrible trait support that is blatantly outclassed by the Ranger’s 1-handed sword for both offense and defense.

Do the Warrior’s need some quality of life improvements such as more sustain and group support? Yes. Do they need buffs to Rush just because Swoop has a lower cooldown? No.

Frankly, the fact that anyone is expressing envy over the Ranger’s “advantages” is quite frankly absurd.

Dolan.3071:

The post wasn’t claiming Swoop to OP, it was claiming Rush to be UP, which it is given its current state of buginess.

This is true. I want to clear things up. I dont care about the ranger specs or anything at all. when I look at just the ability I see it going to waste on a ranger. Numbers and effects like that cant be completely overlooked because the simple fact that a warrior that is meant for melee has a less effective gap closer than a ranger that is supposed to run away and kite. This baffles me that there is such a difference of such a similar skill. There is nothing wrong with swoop. The problem is that rush is not to par with it. (and seriously a super launch alpha strike vs a sprinting guy doing a slow kitten uppercut? insult to injury i say.)

Vanthian.9267:
3) Trait support? There is literally only 3 trait that affects the greatsword.
Now the traits that affect the greatsword: “Forceful Greatsword” which reduces cool down by 20% and gives might on critical for greatsword and spear. “Slashing Power”, which increases the damage by 10% of both spear and greatsword. Then you also have “Blademaster” which increases critical hit chance by 10% while welding a sword.

Wrong. Blademaster only affects one handers. It would say greatsword If It affected greatswords.

Yes Swoop > Rush.

But please stop pushing this "…than a ranger that is supposed to run away and kite. "

Aragorn was a ‘ranger’. Did you see him running away? Or kiting?

If anything it’s a shame Rangers are as weak as they are in melee. It doesn’t help their bow skills aren’t much better. Then there was the quickness nerf…

I don’t play my Ranger anymore specifically because they are too weak in 1vX situations. 40% of their dps is single target only (pet). Other classes like warrior and necro can apply 100% of their dps to 5 targets simultaneously.

But getting back in topic, Yes, Warrior should have a rush that is awesome as Swoop.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Frankly, the fact that anyone is expressing envy over the Ranger’s “advantages” is quite frankly absurd.

I guess the realization of the Ranger being more proficient at staying in Melee than a Warrior has yet to dawn on you. It is “absurd” that Rangers are more capable in sPvP with a melee set up than a Warrior.

Ezeriel.9574:

I is so confused!?! Are these guys for reals? Ranger envy?

Who’s next? Engineers?

Perhaps if you took a moment to step outside of the zerg every once in a while and into PvP you would understand.

Rush is awesome its just buggy. If rush worked as intended I don’t think to many people would complain about it. The only complaint would be as normal movement condi’s which bothers pretty much everything a warrior does and wouldn’t specifically be pointed at rush vs X ability.

When rush is fixed eventually and works as it should I will use it more often right now its dangerous to use. A fixed rush would still be dangerous to use but you would be a bit more inclined to use it knowing that you will also dish out some heavy damage.

If Rush worked like it should, it would be decent. However, these are the possibilities when Rush is used in the order I see them most frequently:

1. Move 10 feet past selected target.
2. Moves to target, but does not attack.
3. Moves 3 feet, continues the animation like it is moving, but stays stationary.
4. Erratically changes directions instead of moving toward the target.
5. Works properly.

If Swoop isn’t as buggy as Rush, it’s definitely a better skill.

Turn Rush into “Assassinate” – Instantly leap 1,200 feet with your Greatsword held above your head in a downwards stabbing direction. Deals damage immediately at the end of the leap. Immune to Cripple/Chill as its a leap attack. Deals less damage than what it currently does (though please don’t drop the damage below 0 like Rush currently does) as it should be used as a gap closer/escape rather than DPS.

This would be infinitely easier than trying to fix the buggy run of Rush.

People cry OP? We’re warriors, anyone referring to Warrior as OP or even “Average” deserves to be laughed off the forums. Fixing a bugged skill will not change this.

Soundchaos.3450:

If Rush worked like it should, it would be decent. However, these are the possibilities when Rush is used in the order I see them most frequently:

1. Move 10 feet past selected target.
2. Moves to target, but does not attack.
3. Moves 3 feet, continues the animation like it is moving, but stays stationary.
4. Erratically changes directions instead of moving toward the target.
5. Works properly.

If Swoop isn’t as buggy as Rush, it’s definitely a better skill.

Swoop has a nice flow to it. You can really get stuff done swooping in and out of combat. Rush feels way too stiff in comparison. Especially when you rush PAST your target, then turn around to stab it in the back… God, it looks funny, but it’s still an annoying bug in most cases.
Just the 2 cents of someone who loves playing LB/GS ranger in spvp and happens to have a lev 80 warrior.

Dolan.3071:

Turn Rush into “Assassinate” – Instantly leap 1,200 feet with your Greatsword held above your head in a downwards stabbing direction. Deals damage immediately at the end of the leap. Immune to Cripple/Chill as its a leap attack. Deals less damage than what it currently does (though please don’t drop the damage below 0 like Rush currently does) as it should be used as a gap closer/escape rather than DPS.

This would be infinitely easier than trying to fix the buggy run of Rush.

People cry OP? We’re warriors, anyone referring to Warrior as OP or even “Average” deserves to be laughed off the forums. Fixing a bugged skill will not change this.

Huh? Fixing a buggy run is probably alot easier. Than adding, swaping or changing animation of the attack.

New addition means possible new bugs

Can’t be any worse than the old bugs.

Rush issues might be also related to terrain issues – at least in the cases where you run without moving (you just happened to hit an invisible obstacle) or where you run past enemy (well, there was an invisible obstacle on the straght way, so you avoided it (LOL)).
If you look carefuly on your run animation you might see the little irregularities in foot placement (and try climbing some rocks or other difficult terrain), which , i believe, are result of not-so-ideal connection of different parts or terrain meshes… and since Swoop is more like “jumping” (like sword#2 on War), it flies over all these little obstacles (note that sword#2 almost never fails to such bugs, and when it does the obstacle is usually quite obvious (meaning you will encounter it if you try to run through that place)).

oZii.2864:

Dolan.3071:

Turn Rush into “Assassinate” – Instantly leap 1,200 feet with your Greatsword held above your head in a downwards stabbing direction. Deals damage immediately at the end of the leap. Immune to Cripple/Chill as its a leap attack. Deals less damage than what it currently does (though please don’t drop the damage below 0 like Rush currently does) as it should be used as a gap closer/escape rather than DPS.

This would be infinitely easier than trying to fix the buggy run of Rush.

People cry OP? We’re warriors, anyone referring to Warrior as OP or even “Average” deserves to be laughed off the forums. Fixing a bugged skill will not change this.

Huh? Fixing a buggy run is probably alot easier. Than adding, swaping or changing animation of the attack.

New addition means possible new bugs

It’d just be a warrior version of swoop, which never bugs out. So they’ve already done it, hardly new.

Rush could really use a buff. If i could i’d make it something like this this:

• Blast finisher.

• Unaffected by movement slows.

• Warrior leaps to the target doing some samurai kitten at the same speed of swoop then applies an aoe stun at the target in a blast-like fashion.

Basically what Dolan said. Then maybe wars would be good in spvp.

If the grass is greener, try playing a ranger … There is reason 90%+ of rangers are perma-bow equipped.

That being said, Rush has it’s problems but it really relates to terrain-to-target pathing issues. It would be nice if the range was actually 1200-2000 range with the variable being the “z-axis” and if the player doesn’t move (i.e. runs into a tree root) that the animation and ability immediately stops like the fix used for Ride the Lightning.

Sativo.9754:

Rush could really use a buff. If i could i’d make it something like this this:

• Blast finisher.

• Unaffected by movement slows.

• Warrior leaps to the target doing some samurai kitten at the same speed of swoop then applies an aoe stun at the target in a blast-like fashion.

Basically what Dolan said. Then maybe wars would be good in spvp.

Rush unaffected by movement slows makes GS almost mandatory even more so than it is.

Something like that needs to be from a trait not specific to the weapon set then it at least allows for a few more options.