Condi zerker; new top damage dealer?

Condi zerker; new top damage dealer?

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

Hi,

a lot of closed minded individuals and otherwise bad theorycrafters with beta access have prematurely bashed the condi warrior as a competitive damage dealer. However, I believe that the use of Scorched Earth and a few specific talents can push the class’ damage to very reasonable levels.

So far, I have figured out the best gear spread to be Nightmare runes + sinister gear/trinkets, except for weapon, helm, shoulders and chest, which sould be viper’s. This gives you 100% condi duration (assuming food and oil, as well as smoldering sigil and king of fires) to both burning and bleeding; bleeding is a large % of your dps, and should not be neglected, with runes such as Balthazar.

See this thread for more info: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/PvE-Ridic-DPS-Longbow-condi-video-guide/

Is my thinking process flawed? What could be improved with the build?

Attachments:

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

(edited by Oxygen.5918)

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Posted by: Warlord.9074

Warlord.9074

you do realize that people complain about the viability of berserker elite in PVP that has nothing to do with PVE DPS.

“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene

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Posted by: RedDeadFred.1256

RedDeadFred.1256

Isn’t this mostly because the Patriarch has a very large hitbox?

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Posted by: eXruina.4956

eXruina.4956

Yes its exactly because the Patriarch has a very large hit box, since each box of Scorch Earth’s area burning hits separately and the Patriarch is probably sitting on at least 2-3 of those.

Berserker is far from being the new top damage dealer.. it doesn’t even kill faster than old power build Warriors sad to say the difference is evident as night and day. Anything you can kill with a power Warrior inn 3-4 hits will take a while for a condition Warrior to bleed out or burn down. Condition is fairly feasible on huge HP bosses.. where you stack bleed and burning up to 5k a tick assuming you keep your ticks on a high enough uptime.

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

Isn’t this mostly because the Patriarch has a very large hitbox?

As do most bosses. You can stagger SE on small hitboxes with proper positioning anyway, so it’s not relevant.

Yes its exactly because the Patriarch has a very large hit box, since each box of Scorch Earth’s area burning hits separately and the Patriarch is probably sitting on at least 2-3 of those.

Berserker is far from being the new top damage dealer.. it doesn’t even kill faster than old power build Warriors sad to say the difference is evident as night and day. Anything you can kill with a power Warrior inn 3-4 hits will take a while for a condition Warrior to bleed out or burn down.

Sustained dps =/= killing random monsters. Burst is the realm of power/direct damage builds, as it has been since the dawn of mmos.

Condition is fairly feasible on huge HP bosses.. where you stack bleed and burning up to 5k a tick assuming you keep your ticks on a high enough uptime.

Did you even click the attachment, and click the video link before replying? My wild guess is that you haven’t. Why do you even reply without considering everything I posted?

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

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Posted by: lighter.2708

lighter.2708

basically you are abusing the unintended exploit of zerker lb f1 has a overlap….

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Posted by: Namica.2951

Namica.2951

Condi does good damage.
Power does more

There is the issue.

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Posted by: eXruina.4956

eXruina.4956

Sustained dps =/= killing random monsters. Burst is the realm of power/direct damage builds, as it has been since the dawn of mmos.

I didn’t just kill any random monsters.. I killed in many encounters.. Normal, Bronze, Silver, Gold, World Bosses, Legendary. I’ve been testing out condition Warrior for quite a while before the expansion and testing it out during Beta and now in the expansion.

I am having fun with Condition Berserker and am still running it, its fun and its flashy. but sadly it just underperforms even when spamming 3-5 Primal Burst skills in 1 Berserk rotation.. at least its better than Power Berserker. =p

Did you even click the attachment, and click the video link before replying? My wild guess is that you haven’t. Why do you even reply without considering everything I posted?

Yes I did.. =p

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

Flaws in your process….

1. Scorched earth is only an improvement over COmbustive shot for large hit box bosses.

2. You haven’t recorded a video of a stable DPS rotation of your build in action for evaluation. If you posted a stable 1 minute dps rotation video I would be more than happy to tell you the exact DPS of your build with typical PvE buffs and optimal gearing.

3. I’m not closed minded about condi warrior. I’ve been playing condi warrior for months or years. Also, when better practices prove themselves to be better practices, I ofcourse incorporate them. changing one’s mind when they get new data is what you should always do. The problem is you haven’t taken a single step towards validating your ideas besides posting a combat log screen shot and a suboptimal build calc from gw2skills.

[DnT]::Nike::
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

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Posted by: Interpretor.3091

Interpretor.3091

I believe that there were a few issues with condition warrior that made it inferior to physical damage builds in PvE raids and fractals.

1. It requires quite a bit of ramp up time to get going, makes it less viable than GS when clearing trash and doing speed runs.
2. Since longbow berserker burst is a big part of your damage output, the target needs to remain stationary at almost all times.
3. You need to be in Meele range at all times to deal maximum damage or it’s worthless and you’re better off going physical damage with a rifle or longbow for situational use.

On paper berserker condition looks great but In actuality I feel like it’s pretty lackluster. This…is pretty sad because Revenants are outdoing warriors in raids because they give the same boons and utilities AND perform better damage wise on moving targets so…bleh.
And this is only raids. In open world it’s even more useless because the adrenaline dies so quickly. I’m s definitely the best AOE dps however. The burn damage spreading on crit is huge damage…that is however if you have the ramp up time to get the dots rolling.

Warrior

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Posted by: ReaperJr.5967

ReaperJr.5967

Thief bashing us about complaining about berserker while displaying some cherry picked data here. Am i the only one that sees the problem?

Lord Ninth \\ Champion Magus
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

Isn’t this mostly because the Patriarch has a very large hitbox?

http://i.imgur.com/AokGH31.png

Achieved on a “normal” hitbox. With subpar sPvP gear.

Thief bashing us about complaining about berserker while displaying some cherry picked data here. Am i the only one that sees the problem?

Easily reproduced is what you probably meant by “cherry picked”. Go ahead and try instead of wasting your time posting here.

I play a thief in sPvP, so what? Does that magically discredit me, and void my ability to add up a couple numbers? Of course not.

1. It requires quite a bit of ramp up time to get going, makes it less viable than GS when clearing trash and doing speed runs.

All of your points are very relevant, however, the build is 100% intended to be used against large hitboxes/stationary monsters. Not that the hitbox really matters.

GW2 allows for a lot of flexibility, and no build rules all. In the fight described above, (i.e. Patchwerk) however, this build does well.

Flaws in your process….

1. Scorched earth is only an improvement over COmbustive shot for large hit box bosses.

Wrong for several reasons.

2. You haven’t recorded a video of a stable DPS rotation of your build in action for evaluation. If you posted a stable 1 minute dps rotation video I would be more than happy to tell you the exact DPS of your build with typical PvE buffs and optimal gearing.

Now that you know the rotation, just do it yourself. I’m not your mom, nor do I care for your input.

3. I’m not closed minded about condi warrior.

If the message was addressed to you, I’d have PM’d you. The nerve is real.

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

(edited by Oxygen.5918)

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Posted by: Harper.4173

Harper.4173

I like this type of reply “wrong for several reasons” – it’s cute because it doesn’t actually list them.
Why even bother replying?

Is my thinking process flawed? What could be improved with the build?

You came here looking for input from people and when you get it you get upset and get an attitude.
Nobody is going to care about you or your posts if you’re going to come in here with that attitude.
Why did you even post?

If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”

(edited by Harper.4173)

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Posted by: bLind.6278

bLind.6278

OP makes post about new DPS build asking for criticism, proceeds to get ultra kitten when criticism is given and attacks anyone not fellating him.

One foot out the door, yet again.

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

I like this type of reply “wrong for several reasons” – it’s cute because it doesn’t actually list them.
Why even bother replying?

Is my thinking process flawed? What could be improved with the build?

You came here looking for input from people and when you get it you get upset and get an attitude.
Nobody is going to care about you or your posts if you’re going to come in here with that attitude.
Why did you even post?

That’s because no relevant feedback was actually provided. Seriously, try and quote some. The thread is filled with people flat out saying “it sucks power > condi”. You’re just perpetuating the circle of useless responses. You’re hypocritical.

OP makes post about new DPS build asking for criticism, proceeds to get ultra kitten when criticism is given and attacks anyone not fellating him.

Same response as above. Where’s the criticism? I mean, look at these shtposts:

Condi does good damage.
Power does more

There is the issue.

Wtf do I make of this?

basically you are abusing the unintended exploit of zerker lb f1 has a overlap….

Or this?

Like, hurrr. Do you even think before you hit that post button?

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

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Posted by: atticantraverse.8934

atticantraverse.8934

OP, staff Elementalist still throws DPS at a substantially higher rate in case you were actually attempting to find out which class has highest potential.

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Posted by: ReaperJr.5967

ReaperJr.5967

Easily reproduced yet you dont post a video showing the rotation and the actual numbers crunched by the build.

Data is so cherry picked you chose numbers from a specific boss with a specifically large hitbox and a specific motion (almost none). For all we know it only works in this encounter.

Lord Ninth \\ Champion Magus
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

Easily reproduced yet you dont post a video showing the rotation and the actual numbers crunched by the build.

Data is so cherry picked you chose numbers from a specific boss with a specifically large hitbox and a specific motion (almost none). For all we know it only works in this encounter.

Oh, man, if only I’d linked the video of the rotation…

Oh wait:

Literally in the first post. Your ineptitude is palpable. Try reading troll. Most relevant boss encounters have very little movement. Hell, isn’t Bloomhunger, a LARGE STATIONARY boss used for dps races? Just leave.

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

(edited by Oxygen.5918)

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Posted by: ReaperJr.5967

ReaperJr.5967

Easily reproduced yet you dont post a video showing the rotation and the actual numbers crunched by the build.

Data is so cherry picked you chose numbers from a specific boss with a specifically large hitbox and a specific motion (almost none). For all we know it only works in this encounter.

Oh, man, if only I’d linked the video of the rotation…

Oh wait:

Literally in the first post. Your ineptitude is palpable. Try reading troll. Most relevant boss encounters have very little movement. Hell, isn’t Bloomhunger, a LARGE STATIONARY boss used for dps races? Just leave.

My apologies. Was too caught up in my emotions regarding berserker. Nonetheless, majority of complaints were towards its viability in pvp, not pve. But kudos to you if you have managed a viable build in pve anyway.

Lord Ninth \\ Champion Magus
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.

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Posted by: eXruina.4956

eXruina.4956

Thing damage numbers aren’t really consistent even in PVE.. average high ticks would fluctuate around 3k+ to 5k+ without food and just a few buffs, and that is assuming whatever you’re hitting stays still and lets you stack your conditions high. If you end up doing something else other than keeping your ticks up damage falls off rather quickly, like oh say.. dodging or disengaging to stay alive.

You can achieve high stacks yes.. I’ve hit around 8k+ myself at best but only for brief periods.. and after a certain windup time (if its dead, its dead =p), its impossible to keep the conditions up at such a high tick indefinitely.

The output is ok.. its not bad actually, but the post says “new top damage dealer” which it is clearly not, is what i think people are trying to tell you.

(edited by eXruina.4956)

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

There’s a potentially good idea from the OP…but holy crap, just take a breath buddy. You don’t need to start snapping at everyone who criticizes you. Yea, there’s some trolls in here, but if they’re going to get you so rattled that you start snapping at people like Nike who gave perfectly level-headed feedback, then maybe you need to step away and have a good cup of tea or something…

Calm down and talk through some of this and if the community can find value in your responses, there may actually be a meta-changing build from all of this.

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Posted by: Capa.7684

Capa.7684

I think the damage is good to calculate (+100%duration) enter berserk mode

Autoattack 2Stacks 2 seconds, with 15%attackspeed berserker round 4 stacks constant.
Fan of fire 3 Stacks 4 seconds cooldown with activation time 5seconds
Fill the gap with berserk King of Fire proc
————
around 7 stacks Burning in melee Range with triple Hit Fan of Fire without Burst Skills
around 6 stacks without berserker mode
————-
3 Primal bursts every 25seconds standart
60 stacks burning without double hit from hitbox
60/25= 2,4 stacks burning
((7stacks*15)+ (6stacks*10)) /25 =6,6stacks
6,6stacks+2,4stacks=9stacks

The constant damage with a good rotation is 9stacks burning in my opinion.
1 Stack is 131,5+(0,155*condition damage)
1500 unbuffed
364 damage
—————————-
3276dps burning +maybe 600 dps physical damage + a little bleeding
around 4k dps
——————————
with always double hit burning 4150dps plus physical and bleeding

I have Condition damage / precision / Toughness Equip Strength is not important in my opinion.

Burning Arrows can give you Shoutheals with Adrenalin gain.
Berserk minor trait you start every Fight with 10 Adrenalin
Bow hit twice
Furios Grandmaster can gice you extra Adrenalin for criticals
————————-
maybe 4-5 second after start Fight you reach 3 full bars and can enter berserk mode. In Berserk mode the Primal Cooldown is a greater hindrance than adrenalin gain.

At a worldboss full buffed, full debuffed and double hitbox you can maybe scratch at the 9k dps with a perfect rotation.

(edited by Capa.7684)

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

Hello,

it turns out I was right after all. Thanks to everyone for your support, it means a lot to me. The build has been vastly improved over time (as expected) but the core is there.

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

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Posted by: killahmayne.9518

killahmayne.9518

now if only this could translate to PVP

Mace/Greatsword Video (Sept Patch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoAjKtD6MLY

(edited by killahmayne.9518)

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Posted by: Harkan.9017

Harkan.9017

And this is exactly why the profession sub forums, especially Warriors, is god awful as depicted by many amazing examples in this topic.

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

And this is exactly why the profession sub forums, especially Warriors, is god awful as depicted by many amazing examples in this topic.

At least we did it reddit. We did it.

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

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Posted by: Joxer.6024

Joxer.6024

Oxygen.5918:
I am intrigued to play a condi Warrior and so far what you have posted looks great! Do you have a recent build you could link and one that is viable for raiding? Thanks heaps. I am new to this Warrior thing but am liking it!

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918:
I am intrigued to play a condi Warrior and so far what you have posted looks great! Do you have a recent build you could link and one that is viable for raiding? Thanks heaps. I am new to this Warrior thing but am liking it!

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAT8fnMdAtkiVeAefAcigFoA7oJEASZKHhbwQ4t1Ob3tA-TBSFAB9r+DyWQAwTAgYlf9eRAUa/g21NklSQSBAxyK-e

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Oxygen.5918:
I am intrigued to play a condi Warrior and so far what you have posted looks great! Do you have a recent build you could link and one that is viable for raiding? Thanks heaps. I am new to this Warrior thing but am liking it!

Actually, this is the build link and video you should be looking to. What Oxy posted was not optimized and has since been refined:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAT8fnMdAtki1eAefA0hglpA74IEAGZKBhYQP490+artA-TBSFAB9r+zgKBR2CCAuIAEr8r3nAgS7H0uuBSBAzyK-e
Wild Blow can substitute Shattering Blow if you need breakbar assistance.

Welcome to warrior. It’s definitely a fun class and is in a great spot for raiding.

p.s. personally, I find berserker’s fury preferable to signet mastery since I almost never actually use healing sig and even though the fury from berserker’s fury is redundant, the extra adrenaline regen helps.

(edited by Dahkeus.8243)

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

Actually, this is the build link and video you should be looking to. What Oxy posted was not optimized and has since been refined:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAT8fnMdAtki1eAefA0hglpA74IEAGZKBhYQP490+artA-TBSFAB9r+zgKBR2CCAuIAEr8r3nAgS7H0uuBSBAzyK-e
Wild Blow can substitute Shattering Blow if you need breakbar assistance.

Utility skills come down to the situation at hand. I include a few choices in the written guide included with the video. In fact, I did include my video over Nike’s because it actually shows the rotation, not just a character sitting around for 15 minutes, which is more useful to someone trying to learn how to play versus “what” to play.

Deep Strike vs. Blademaster is more of a choice than optimisation; Deep Strike is better if you can’t/don’t want to switch off LB for obvious reasons (which I don’t because I like shooting arrows), and vice versa.

The same can be said about Blood Reaction vs. Heat the Soul.

Rabid backpiece was a mistake from my part over Rampager (oopsies), but otherwise, both builds are exactly the same, unless I’m missing something else?

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Actually, this is the build link and video you should be looking to. What Oxy posted was not optimized and has since been refined:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAT8fnMdAtki1eAefA0hglpA74IEAGZKBhYQP490+artA-TBSFAB9r+zgKBR2CCAuIAEr8r3nAgS7H0uuBSBAzyK-e
Wild Blow can substitute Shattering Blow if you need breakbar assistance.

Utility skills come down to the situation at hand. I include a few choices in the written guide included with the video. In fact, I did include my video over Nike’s because it actually shows the rotation, not just a character sitting around for 15 minutes, which is more useful to someone trying to learn how to play versus “what” to play.

Deep Strike vs. Blademaster is more of a choice than optimisation; Deep Strike is better if you can’t/don’t want to switch off LB for obvious reasons (which I don’t because I like shooting arrows), and vice versa.

The same can be said about Blood Reaction vs. Heat the Soul.

Rabid backpiece was a mistake from my part over Rampager (oopsies), but otherwise, both builds are exactly the same, unless I’m missing something else?

You’re using sword offhand and you’re using smoldering arrow, so there’s no benefit to showing the rotation if you’re going to show the wrong one.

Yea, I know you have a personal beef with Nike, but like it or not, his rotation and information on what variant of the build as well as how to use the build is simply better.

If you like to camp longbow the whole time, that’s your choice, but it’s also a dps loss over swapping to sword+torch.

@ Anyone looking to clarify what rotation to use: check out Nike’s video at 19:51 – https://youtu.be/Q7wwxZ3Gv0w?t=1191

@ Anyone giving advice: Please stick to the facts and leave personal bias or preferences that produce DPS losses out of it.

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Posted by: Oxygen.5918

Oxygen.5918

You’re using sword offhand and you’re using smoldering arrow, so there’s no benefit to showing the rotation if you’re going to show the wrong one.

Correct, however in my defense, the video is old (i.e. not optimised, but certainly not awful either), from when the theorycrafting had just begun. But it shows the important part, i.e. positioning, double dipping, and so on. Smoldering Arrow is a DPS increase because it provides 2s of burning while in a fire field on a 1/4 cast time, which is more DPS than Double Shot does for a 3/4 cast time. Pls dahkeus.

If you like to camp longbow the whole time, that’s your choice, but it’s also a dps loss over swapping to sword+torch.

Yes, it’s definitely my choice, but not on fights where melee’ing is near impossible/too dangerous/etc. Certain Verdant Brinks dragon fights come to mind. Again, all is situational, even the whole build itself.

I was the best at burning things. Especially bosses that
didn’t move.

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Posted by: Warlord.9074

Warlord.9074

Just want to clear somthing up. For open world burning arrows is better. On VG if you are in the circle team burning arrows is better. Or gorseval burning arrows is not better for sabetha burning arrows is not better. The only time burning arrows in the raid is better is when you are in the circle team on VG and that is only becasue you cannont focous on pefect rotations. Your main focous is sitting on green circles and running to them or sitting on them means you can’t have a proper rotation. In this scenario taking a shout like fear me also helps clear seekers and has a lot better synergy with shouts. Otherwise if you think burning arrows is good on gorse or sab you are very mistaken and should uninstall the game and not give people advice.

“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

You’re using sword offhand and you’re using smoldering arrow, so there’s no benefit to showing the rotation if you’re going to show the wrong one.

Correct, however in my defense, the video is old (i.e. not optimised, but certainly not awful either), from when the theorycrafting had just begun. But it shows the important part, i.e. positioning, double dipping, and so on. Smoldering Arrow is a DPS increase because it provides 2s of burning while in a fire field on a 1/4 cast time, which is more DPS than Double Shot does for a 3/4 cast time. Pls dahkeus.

If you like to camp longbow the whole time, that’s your choice, but it’s also a dps loss over swapping to sword+torch.

Yes, it’s definitely my choice, but not on fights where melee’ing is near impossible/too dangerous/etc. Certain Verdant Brinks dragon fights come to mind. Again, all is situational, even the whole build itself.

Not even where to start with you…you’re back and forth all over the place.

First you say that you posted to show the rotation…when you had an outdated and bad rotation. Now you’re saying that you posted the video because it shows how to double dip fire fields? That’s a valid point, but you really need a disclaimer to point out that this is about the only unique and relevant info in your vid when so much else in there is really just covered more accurately by Nike’s vid.

@ Warlord: The tactics burn arrow variant isn’t actually better for VG, but it is a bit easier to pull off if you’re learning how to take care of the lightning circles and aren’t used to dipping back to melee. However you can see how to maximize dps while providing the regen from banners in the standard version in the recent vid Nike posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny5kJAkXfVQ