Condition Warriors
S/S longbow builds with Dire equipment are somewhat indestructible while melting anything fairly quick. So ask yourself this; where is the fun if there is no challenge?
Hulk Roaming Montages/Build Vids
I always rage but never quit.
It is fun when you single handled push back a group from taking your tower.
I disagree there is no challenge. If there is a guy running around that is specifically setup to counter you it can be a tough fight. I consider myself a pretty awesome fighter but a condition build is not the end all be all of warrior builds.
Ever fight a zerker warrior with maximum condition cleanse and healing stacks and/or healing signet? Their constant high damage and condition cleanse can melt you real quick!
In WvW I would really argue against going S/S. The added damage from torment is nice but normally people will try to cleanse quickly enough so that it negates torment. It is better to use a shield for the added block as you still need to protect yourself. I find myself needing to use my shield for a stun much more often than torment. Better to stick with bleeds, fire, and poison from doom sigil on swap.
Your choices of gear should be full dire, full apothecary, or shaman’s armor with apothecary weapons and trinks. The last two choices are if you are doing a condition healing build.
I find myself using full dire or the mix most often. Full dire makes you very tough but you have almost no healing power to benefit healing signet so you have to run with melandru runes and a condition duration reduction food to make up for it. The mix makes you much tougher but your damage will suffer unless you go heavy into power and precision trait lines to make up for it. If you do that you lose the ability to use the banner but your healing power will be so high your signet will tick for more and make up for it most of the time.
Another option I want to throw out there is running full perplexity runes combined with distracking strikes and physical training traits. Run this build with a shield, bull’s charge, and stomp. Confusion is one of the best conditions in the game as almost no classes can remove it without using a cleanse and getting hurt in the process. Confusion is a thief stomper because they cannot remove it in stealth.
I almost exclusively run Quality Tuning Crystal and Bowl of Poultry and Leek Soup because they are SO much cheaper and are about as good a combination as you can get for a condition warrior in WvW.
(edited by epborden.7492)
I run a shout heal condition warrior with dire + apothecary. It’s very effective either solo or with a group.
Even between a zerg clash, I find that I can always either get away or the last one to die (usually after the commander dies). And yet I have pretty good killing power, a 700 to 800 burning ticks does push back a lot of people. Solo you kill quickly, against people with a lot of cleanse and healing you make sure you keep couple of covers and poison on him. Keep in mind sw4’s torment doesn’t get apply all at once, after sw 4 put some cripple, blind, posion, or even immob. A good combo is Sw f1, fear him right before the immbo is about to end then stick him with sw4 most will drop after that. Most of power build will not be able to kill you, but some will be hard for you to kill, but you will have the upper hand.
Wow thanks for all of this valuable info. I am going to read up on these more and learn as much as I can. Really looking forward to doing this.
I just need to find a way to afford all this lol
When I first get into condition build I find the most confusing thing is learn how gw2 condition works exactly, as well how conditions gets applied with each skill. Its not at all obvious compare to a power build.
For example sw f1 apply immob first, then apply 1 stack of bleed with each hit. Sw4 apply 1 stack of torment after every sec, a good player will try cleanse after the 5th stack gets applied, but you can apply cover conditions as conditions gets put on as last in first out fashion. Sw5 is a block at range, and it continuously block until you are at melee range. This make it excellent way to close the gap.
Honestly, a condition based warrior can’t really kill you if you have decent condition cleanse and you know how to dodge Pindown and the Sword #4, especially if they are a healing shout condition build. If you keep your distance you will never get overwhelmed by conditions.
However since most of the condition warrior builds I see run healing shouts. They aren’t indestructible as many people think, especially if you use a warrior against a condition warrior. Maybe against certain other classes they may seem indestructible. Using Mace/Greatsword with reflect missiles completely counter them. Using Hammer/Greatsword can kill them as well. In a melee fight a power warrior would win simply because they will do more damage and they can cleanse the condis. I use sigil of fire and air so if condi warriors want to get into a melee war with me they will never win.
And if you are using a shield rather than a sword, then yeah .... you are only killing baddies. The torment just adds so much more damage and acts as a cover condition and is ridiculously powerful at 5 stacks.
Condition builds are also really boring. You can facetank most things (of course until you run into a good player that understands condition warriors). You will kill quite a bit of people who don’t understand condition warriors and the game period don’t get me wrong. But it is much more fun to play a power warrior IMO.
This is unfortunately not based on my experience. I also play a GS Hammer warrior as well. I have full ascended set on both, so definitely invested in a decent amount on both. Conditional warrior would be a hard match up for any power based warrior.
Simply because it is up to the power based warrior to make that mistake. A conditional warrior can make a mistake but can recover much easier, if a power based warrior makes a mistake, he is dead. Everyone on the forum claim that just dodge Sw4 or LB 5. Well the problem is you can force a dodge by cancel LB5, you can hit SW4 at melee range where its much harder to read. And the all the while, the biggest burst is actually SW F1. Further more the condition warrior have both short range + long range game, where as most power base warrior only has short range. In addition he is mobile, much tankier than the power base warrior, much better heal, even with 2 to 3 stun breakers on short cool down.
I am not saying the power base warrior won’t win, he just need to be so much better to win.
I feel like it is a 50/50 on whether it would be wise to switch to a condition build. Now I am not too sure lol.
I think I will go look up all kinds of warrior builds and see which would be fun and effective.
Go with condition u will have more toughness and die harder.
I feel like it is a 50/50 on whether it would be wise to switch to a condition build. Now I am not too sure lol.
I think I will go look up all kinds of warrior builds and see which would be fun and effective.
you can try out the various builds in sPvP (hotjoin) before you commit to buying / crafting all those gear for use in WvW though.
Power Warriors without a Longbow are a free kill to you as a condi Warrior (if they don’t run away), don’t worry about that. Hambows are kiteable (you easily wear them down if you play lame) and Gswordbows, as long as you don’t melee them while immobilized with whirlwind out of CD, are fairly maneagable as well. You’ll be doing way more pressure to them than them to you as long as you don’t miss key skills or mistime them.
EDIT: Zerg Warriors don’t count!! (PVT, Trooper runes, Heal Shouts, Horn with condi clear) you can’t kill those if they decide to kite you; they can’t kill you either though.
(edited by Khenzy.9348)
Actually I don’t really understand why people say conditional warrior is boring. In my experience power warrior is not any more exciting in turns of skill use. Unless you count the huge animation of hammer that make things seems more devastating.
Yes as a conditional warrior you get more free kills, but against certain classes and decent players, it is just as challenging.
But yeah definitely test the builds in sPvP.
I totally forgot about spvp. I will try out some condition builds there as soon as I find someone to practice with. I am really looking forward to trying a condition build again. Especially since I received my first ascended condi bow!
I know I won’t win every battle(especially with my lack of skill lol) but it is good to hear that it is still viable in wvw.
I definitely agree that dire/apothecary healing shouts s/s + longbow warrior is one of the strongest builds for a low skill level player (sitting alongside minion master necromancer and other such gems).
However I definitely disagree with epborden about the right setup for perplexity distracting strikes warrior. In my opinion mace/sword and longbow is the optimal weapon set here. While this build is probably more effective it requires a little more skill than s/s lb shouts (a mentally il monkey banging his head on the keyboard won’t play an interrupt build to full effectiveness).
Good luck – try condi dire with some healing power and you won’t regret it if you’re not a great player.
Oh I didn’t know that shouts would be better. I forgot to look into my traits and things.
I just spent everything I had on gear(28 silver left lol) So now it is time to figure out the rest.
I just had the signets on because they are easier to manage since they have nice passives. I also just poured all my trait points into the top for condition duration and damage and I used the last little bit on toughness.
I’ve been a heavy condition user before, and went back to direct damage a few weeks ago. I was about to comment in the vein: “condition builds are more lethal than direct damage builds, but have more nemesis as well (i.e. classes you’d rather burst), and are less fun to play”.
Then yesterday I decided to go back to a condition build, for the sake of it. Boy, I’d forgotten the extent of how “more lethal” they are. I’ve died twice, against a group of 5 players I wanted to annoy, I’ve won all my duels and 1v2 (one of which was against two hammer warriors who tried their best to bring me around mid-life), and successfully trolled enemy zergs (going inside them, hitting like mad, and getting away like a charm).
Playing it was way less challenging than playing a full berserker build, but the fun was here, not so much in the duels than in the outnumbered fights. I do believe that the fun withers away after a while (which is why I eventually got back to direct damage), but I think that this is the case for every build you’ve played a lot.
The build (a standard condition thing):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAscTjMdUGaVIehwJagkgCZLkBHr5AQdV8FRBA-TlyCABVcCAA4BAowRAAQ9ApoJwH1fSUJYWK/mZ/BJOEAECQxcA-w
Shouts? Healing Shouts? WTF? Why is everyone naming shouts? Stances are vastly superior as a roamer in every scenario.
Usually I will run 2 shouts with 1 stance. And switch the stance on the fly depends on who I face. Lets face it, with any given fight you don’t need all 3.
I can’t say whether its better or worse. But I can tell you some of the reason why I run it. At 30 Tactics, it gives you boon duration, so you are doubling as a bit of hybrid build. During the fight your might count goes from min 10 to 20+, and with 90% up time on fury. Your actual direct damage is not that weak even with nothing invest in it. And your conditional damage will be on-par or slightly weaker than the pure conditional variant. And since you are still mostly invested in conditional damage, you are not dependent on boons either. So you are fine against boon striping builds.
Of course if you have any teammate around, they will benefit immensely from your shouts. Unless you are in a low pop server, the time when its just you and no one else from your server is rare.
(edited by bigmonto.4215)
In WvW I would really argue against going S/S. The added damage from torment is nice but normally people will try to cleanse quickly enough so that it negates torment. It is better to use a shield for the added block as you still need to protect yourself. I find myself needing to use my shield for a stun much more often than torment. Better to stick with bleeds, fire, and poison from doom sigil on swap.
…
Sword has a block with half the cooldown of shield’s.
Honestly, a condition based warrior can’t really kill you if you have decent condition cleanse and you know how to dodge Pindown and the Sword #4, especially if they are a healing shout condition build. If you keep your distance you will never get overwhelmed by conditions.
However since most of the condition warrior builds I see run healing shouts. They aren’t indestructible as many people think, especially if you use a warrior against a condition warrior. Maybe against certain other classes they may seem indestructible. Using Mace/Greatsword with reflect missiles completely counter them. Using Hammer/Greatsword can kill them as well. In a melee fight a power warrior would win simply because they will do more damage and they can cleanse the condis. I use sigil of fire and air so if condi warriors want to get into a melee war with me they will never win.
While I mostly agree against most S/S + LB Condi Warriors, Condi Mace/S + LB with Perplexity Runes is just devastating for at least GS/Hammer builds. Dodge, Blocks, interrupts just royally screws GS/Ham over if Cleansing Ire isn’t activated. Even Signet of Stamina only does so much. 10+ stacks of unclearable confusion ftw … Good thing they aren’t mobile so I’ll just run from the extreme cheesiness of that build. GS/LB may do better just cuz of the reliable cleanse but I honestly doubt it.
Very little does well against Mace/S + LB…. condi necro, really good d/d celestial strength eles, perhaps particularly patient thieves. Zerker warrior can stand a pretty good chance though, and you get multiple chances due to disengage.
I don’t seem to be having much luck with this. Everyone is clearing my conditions almost as fast as I am dropping them. I am going to do some experimenting and find out which build I can enjoy.
Usually I will run 2 shouts with 1 stance. And switch the stance on the fly depends on who I face. Lets face it, with any given fight you don’t need all 3.
I can’t say whether its better or worse. But I can tell you some of the reason why I run it. At 30 Tactics, it gives you boon duration, so you are doubling as a bit of hybrid build. During the fight your might count goes from min 10 to 20+, and with 90% up time on fury. Your actual direct damage is not that weak even with nothing invest in it. And your conditional damage will be on-par or slightly weaker than the pure conditional variant. And since you are still mostly invested in conditional damage, you are not dependent on boons either. So you are fine against boon striping builds.
Of course if you have any teammate around, they will benefit immensely from your shouts. Unless you are in a low pop server, the time when its just you and no one else from your server is rare.
Well, I don’t know, by going 30 on tactics you either lose Deep Cuts (an absolute must have), Fast Hands (another must have) and/or Vigorous Focus or Mobile Strikes (extremely powerful and useful traits) or you lose Last Stand (this trait wins you duels alone and it has great sinergy with Vigorous Focus and three stances) or Defy Pain, which is almost a must have if you find yourself in (against) a zerg.
As you know, Dogged March and Clenasing Ire are both must haves.
A well timed Berserker Stance or Endure Pain can mitigate so much more damage than a petty heal, they are also more versatile as you can use them proactively to be more agressive.
Berserker Stance wins me duels against Condi Necros and PU condi mesmers alone.
Balanced Stance is self explanatory.
I find my trait set up significantly superior, but hey, that’s just me and my play-style.
While I personally use stances, I disagree that Deep Cuts is a must have (I find the bleeds more than long enough anyway). For me Fast Hands is a bit of a must have, as is Cleansing Ire, but there’s nothing to stop you going 0/0/20/30/20.
Thanks for this thread! I am also looking to test condition build (already have asc zerk for PvE and PowToVit-tanky healshout gear for WvW).
Looking for some advice too, mainly on sigils/runes!
I currently have gathered full dire armor with krait runes + apotechary/mixed accessories + S/S longbow with dire stats on all weapons. I plan to play WvW, both zerg and roaming in small group.
I got 50gold to mess around with atm!
Q1: Do you think I am too defensive with dire/apo? Can switch up to full rabid or mix before applying runes/sigils …
Q2: What weapon sigils are best really? These, others, combinatons on wpns?
Superior sigil of bursting – 6% cond dmg.
Superior sigil of malice – 10% cond duration.
Superior sigil of corruption – cond dmg stacks.
Q3: What runes? Other option?
Superior rune of perplexity (I take it you have to focus some on interrupt if you take these for maximal effect).
Superior rune of tormenting (it’s only the normal healing-skill that counts, right? not healing shouts. Is this rune for warriors?)
Superior rune of melandru (hey, best alive huh? especially with dire/apo mix I already got).
Thanks!
(edited by hulmen.8713)
Hi,
Q1: Do you think I am too defensive with dire/apo? Can switch up a bit before applying runes/sigils …
Dire is perfect for standard condition builds. I don’t use apothecary, because outside of shout builds I find them of limited interest (we never heal and do not have much regeneration).
Rabid is interesting when you want more build diversity, i.e. get some critical chance to either trigger additional effect, or go for hybrid setups.
Q2: What weapon sigils are best really? These, others, combinatons on wpns?
I always take a sigil of corruption (also on my underwater weapon), because it’s simply too good – you rarely die, as a condition warrior! Also, I always take a Sigil of Doom, because it gives you access to poison, very important to prevent the opponent from healing efficiently, as well as increasing the condition coverage.
As for the rest, it’s up to you. I like the Sigil of Hydromancy for its soft control, and when I run rabid I equip a Sigil of Earth on the bow, to help it a bit with conditions. Sigil of Bursting is probably fine, but I’d pass for the Sigil of Malice, since I usually go with +36% condition duration food, as well as the +50% bleed duration trait.
Q3: What runes? Other option?
Many runes can be considered:
- If you go full dire, then the Runes of the Krait or the Runes of the Undead are both excellent and cheap. I have a set with each of these.
- I also have a set with the Runes of Perplexity, although I tend to use it less often these days, because of the 15/04 nerf on the runes. As you have said, leveraging the confusion in a build comes with some sacrifices, so it’s really a player’s choice. It’s fun to play, though.
- I have a set with the Runes of Melandru, which I used first when I started roaming with friends. Eventually, I found out that I had too much toughness, so switched for more offensive runes. I don’t use it anymore.
- I have also tried the Runes of the Guardian, going for a block build – it was interesting to play, but not my preferred game play.
I have never used the Runes of Tormenting, because I equip the Healing Signet (which I use extremely rarely), and because the only source of torment that we have, aside from the Sigil of Torment, is Sword #4 – and I like to sometimes use a warhorn or a shield as off-hand weapon.
Have fun.
Usually I will run 2 shouts with 1 stance. And switch the stance on the fly depends on who I face. Lets face it, with any given fight you don’t need all 3.
I can’t say whether its better or worse. But I can tell you some of the reason why I run it. At 30 Tactics, it gives you boon duration, so you are doubling as a bit of hybrid build. During the fight your might count goes from min 10 to 20+, and with 90% up time on fury. Your actual direct damage is not that weak even with nothing invest in it. And your conditional damage will be on-par or slightly weaker than the pure conditional variant. And since you are still mostly invested in conditional damage, you are not dependent on boons either. So you are fine against boon striping builds.
Of course if you have any teammate around, they will benefit immensely from your shouts. Unless you are in a low pop server, the time when its just you and no one else from your server is rare.
Well, I don’t know, by going 30 on tactics you either lose Deep Cuts (an absolute must have), Fast Hands (another must have) and/or Vigorous Focus or Mobile Strikes (extremely powerful and useful traits) or you lose Last Stand (this trait wins you duels alone and it has great sinergy with Vigorous Focus and three stances) or Defy Pain, which is almost a must have if you find yourself in (against) a zerg.
As you know, Dogged March and Clenasing Ire are both must haves.A well timed Berserker Stance or Endure Pain can mitigate so much more damage than a petty heal, they are also more versatile as you can use them proactively to be more agressive.
Berserker Stance wins me duels against Condi Necros and PU condi mesmers alone.
Balanced Stance is self explanatory.I find my trait set up significantly superior, but hey, that’s just me and my play-style.
I don’t disagree with you, its more of a play style. I use 0/0/5/6/3 or alternatively 0/0/4/6/4. So I don’t have deep cuts. However I use Krait rune + condition food. Since condition duration can stack only at max 100%. I found that these 2 are enough for bleed. Plus with almost spammable heal I can be on their face most of the time.
I found that I don’t ever need ignore pain with all the heals. As for Berserker Stance, yes I do slot it most of the time. But sometimes I slot fear me or balance stand depends on the fight. In fact I find that certain builds I can only kill with a well timed immob + fear. I also don’t need last stand since I have Shake it off and shrug it off. And against stun heavy builds I do balance stand, but there really aren’t a lot of stun heavy builds that can threaten this build.
In terms of a zerg running by, I find that with Zerker stand or fear me with a leap will usually allow me to escape. With shout heals I can last 10+ sec even with 5+ people on me. And if they are determined, unless a keep in near, I will still die with or without ignore pain.
I don’t seem to be having much luck with this. Everyone is clearing my conditions almost as fast as I am dropping them. I am going to do some experimenting and find out which build I can enjoy.
You should be able to drop conditions faster than any build can cleanse. However, against an organized group with a lot of group conditional clear, you will have problems. This is why people don’t use conditional build in tPvP.
You can try the shout heal variant in spvp with settler rune, celestial rune or even . The shout heal variant allows me to be on their face at all times. This allows for constant bleed application, and hard to dodge sw4, and sw5, also more damaging lb2.
I use Krait rune for more condition with elite, plus a least 1 sigil of doom, you can also add sigil of ice for additional cover. Make sure you use lb4 (blind) right after major condition application.
I gave it another shot and I was happy with how it turned out. The krait runes ans doom sigil were something I already had and they work well.
While I personally use stances, I disagree that Deep Cuts is a must have (I find the bleeds more than long enough anyway). For me Fast Hands is a bit of a must have, as is Cleansing Ire, but there’s nothing to stop you going 0/0/20/30/20.
What about taking burst mastery? The combo: Combustive Shot>Savage Leap>Flurry is extremely powerful. It also provides more adrenaline overtime which provides/allows more readily available and more powerful Combustive Shots (more conditions cleared and more burning uptime) and Flurries, or what about higher stages of Adrenal Health overtime which translates on higher heals over time (although low, it’s something).
Burst mastery is way underrated as a condi Warrior imo.
You can do just fine with 0/0/20/30/20 although I think my proposal is a little bit more flexible.
While I personally use stances, I disagree that Deep Cuts is a must have (I find the bleeds more than long enough anyway). For me Fast Hands is a bit of a must have, as is Cleansing Ire, but there’s nothing to stop you going 0/0/20/30/20.
What about taking burst mastery? The combo: Combustive Shot>Savage Leap>Flurry is extremely powerful. It also provides more adrenaline overtime which provides/allows more readily available and more powerful Combustive Shots (more conditions cleared and more burning uptime) and Flurries, or what about higher stages of Adrenal Health overtime which translates on higher heals over time (although low, it’s something).
Burst mastery is way underrated as a condi Warrior imo.
You can do just fine with 0/0/20/30/20 although I think my proposal is a little bit more flexible.
Actually you don’t need burst mastery at all. If the enemy is hitting you, you will get adrenaline extremely fast through CI. If not, you can spec “inspiring shout”, between versatile rage and “inspiring shout” and your LB hit, you should have 2 levels for your sword burst.
If we are talking SPvP and YoloQ:
S/S – LB
Battle / Doom – Energy / Geomancy
Might stacking is overpowered, poison cover, extra dodge why not, 3 stack aoe bleed or cleanse blind on swap.
Rune of the Soldier – Settler Amulet
0/0/4/6/4 – Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, Lung Capacity, Shrug it Off, Vigorous Shouts, Inspiring Shouts, Mobile Strikes.
*DM and CI are overpowered, all shout traits, sword 2 removes immob.
Healing Signet, For Great Justice, Shake It Off, On My Mark / Fear Me, Signet of Rage.
~Enjoy….
(WHAT YOU GET FROM THIS BUILD)
- AoE 10k+ burst heal on 24 second cooldown
- Adrenal Health+Healing Signet – 890 hps + Regen from DM
- 5 AoE condition cleanse
- 10% increased revive speed (not that you should ever need to revive any one)
- Tons of might stacks (some of which are AoE read; Combustive Shot + Arcing Shot, FGJ, Revive)
- Adrenaline on Weapon Swap / 5 second Weapon Swap
- 2 stun breaks
- channeled block on 15 second cooldown (that can be used to stack bleeds)
- Gap closer/creator that removes immob,
Conditions you deal:
- bleed/poison/burning/torment/cripple/blind/vulnerability(or fear).
*You will ALWAYS have adrenaline for your f1’s (cleansing conditions / stacking conditions – at the same time).
*Exact same condition damage as Rabid, but you heal more, and have no need for crit.
This build not only serves as condi dps, but as support, and roamer. The only thing that you can’t kill solo is SA thief and celestial diamond skin ele with signet. If your enemy chooses to stand on the point in Combustive Shot, they will die.
Things that kill you:
When you are 2v1 against a good SoH thief + 1.
When you are 2v1 against a good Terrormancer + 1.
When you are 2v1 against 5-7k+Chill of Death/Fire Sigil/Air Sigil Lich auto attacks on 2,200+ toughness and 3,400+ armor + 1.
When you are 2v1 against p/s or rifle – toolkit/nade/x engi + 1
Chill / Immob / CC when you have no cooldowns
That’s it.
Things that are important:
*Land Pin Down – this will setup your swap to Flurry.
*Land Impale – this will kill every other class, and even other Warrior’s.
*When you are going to swap from Longbow to Swords, do so when the arrow(s) are in the air, when they land, Doom Sigil will Proc (this allows for Pin Down to deal Poison, Bleeding, and Immob).
*If you are using Fear Me, do so either to land an immob, or to interrupt a heal.
*Hit all 3 arrows of Fan of Fire, this can be used to cleanse blind and still connect if you are near melee range.
*It takes 4 shouts to get full adrenaline from zero, use all of your shouts (except Fear Me) before the match starts, so you are at near full adrenaline and they are off cooldown by the time you begin fighting.
*Landing Pin Down, Combustive Shot, Arcing Shot, Flurry, Impale will kill everything. *You will force defensive cooldowns with every single Pin Down or Flurry, or your enemy dies.
*DO NOT use Pin Down or Impale into Berserker Stance, Diamon Skin, Block, or Aegis.
Let’s get real here, a Hambow CAN’T kill you and unless you aren’t dodging Earthshaker, you will melt them once Berserker Stance is over. You can actually completely ignore them other than CC, since their damage wont be enough to get you to 50% hp.
This is a faceroll build, due to this, your errors are almost negligible***
****You’ve been warned****
(edited by Vicariuz.1605)
I’m really glad I noticed this thread, I’m running S/S in mostly EotM at the moment and it seems to be doing well. I’m still working on setting up my equipment properly. For my armor and weapons I’ve been using Rampages, would that be a viable option or should I switch to dires? I’m guessing switching would help because I only have around 19k health. I have 2 rings and a amulet that are ascended and have berserker stats, rebuying those is going to take some time :/.