Guild Wars 2

Strictly from a solo WvW perspective, how viable are warrior condition builds. Anything but Sw/Sw and LB is probably stupid(maybe not?). I came up with this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIMQNAscTjkOtwxQCPMRCAUhvuMSaK9h5SKOzMA-jEyAINBRaBIVJQ5wioxW8KiGrmBTlSEV7QKiWtUAQMHA-w

Kinda unsure about utilities. Are stances good? What exactly does berserker stance do? While lacking in power, i think thats made up for by the dmg increases. +15 when burning, +5% when bleeding. Traits im also pretty unsure about 0 25 0 20 15 seems pretty mandatory. 5 sec on weapon swap is to strong. Also sigil of earth and that 5 minor trait (dont remember which tree) combined with rabid gear means lots and lots of bleeds.

How viable is apothecary gear?

After watching some videos, and reading around the forums, im certain condition warrior is very viable. However, im wondering if full rabid, full dire, or a mix of the 2 is the way to go. How useful is a banner, taking the regen and cool down trait? In addition, fast hands is awesome, but when taking the banner traits, its hard to find room to fit that. I tried to get 30% crit, and with opportunist, leg specialist, and sword auto thats perma fury so 50%. Thoughts?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIMQNAscTjkOpwtPCPMxBEkCNsKOKSilI9QMCj1A-jUyAINBRaBIVJQ5QoMJRGb1sIasaGMFLRUtDpIa1SBAxcA-w

consider apothecary aswell? i find vitality to be close to useless on warrior, except if you have absolutely no additions and sit at ~19k health, thats a little dangerous (for being a warrior), but everything above 22k is just fine. precision – we dont have a lot of critical procs on the condition side.. vulnerability and bleeds, only 33%.. while vulnerability only serves as an extra condition against cleansing and doesnt really increase damage on a condition build, bleeds are already applied plenty anyways.. so i would also say precision is a bad stat compared to the healing power alternative on condi warriors..

Healing power doesn’t scale great for warriors though. And of all the classes that have a bleed on crit minor (necro,Engi,warr) all 3 are 33%chance on crit to bleed. How is that worse compared to other professions? Most other professions dont even get a trait like that. Plus the sigil, 60% chance on crit to bleed. It doesn’t stack to 93%, its two separate bleeds which IMO is better. The reason i say dire is beacause i saw a video if some guy walking around with 30k health, Sw/Sw + LB and absolutely destroying people.

Thoughts? Tips? Anyone?

you could replace the sigil of corruption with the sigil of geomancy.

every time you swap weapons you aoe condition bomb. this would allow the following combo.

[pindown](6 stacks of bleed) – into dodge roll into them weapon swap (3 stacks of bleed) – auto attack (1 stack of bleed) for a total of 10 stacks of bleed in under 2 seconds.

Fiorrello.8126:

you could replace the sigil of corruption with the sigil of geomancy.

every time you swap weapons you aoe condition bomb. this would allow the following combo.

[pindown](6 stacks of bleed) – into dodge roll into them weapon swap (3 stacks of bleed) – auto attack (1 stack of bleed) for a total of 10 stacks of bleed in under 2 seconds.

That is what I’d do if full dire. But not trading for corruption, trading for earth. Also, 0 20 20 10 20 is probably what ill be running with full dire. 0 20 20 30 0 seems to benefit more from apothecary. And no fast hands makes me sad

is that condi banner regen the build you are going for or?

why not 0/20/15/20/15 ?

you don’t actually need cleansing ire if you are using a traited warhorn.
if you are committed to using a dire armor set then. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNBMhNak0JGuFS4hJSggPohHFJxUoPMHJFnBbA-jEyAINBRqSgIPgZyioxWNLiGrmBTlSEV7QKiWNA-w

personally i use this build it gives me great survivability and a wide range of counter combat options.

since this is about solo condition roaming build, I will throw this here.

Have you guys ever considered putting a greatsword as a GET OUT OF JAIL card, along with the usual Sword/Sword?

Sword/GS makes for the greatest mobility we can achieve as you know.

This mobility would make it possibile for the warrior to go for Squishier gear but more dmg potential (like RABID instead of DIRE…or hell going ball’s deep with something RAMPAGER like to make the most of out of the worlds of the 1h sword) since your defense is the ability to get the kitten out of problems almost whenever you want to.

Also on a side note, Greatsword is a great tool to chase running targets. And along the sword mobility and immobilize it would be REALLY hard to escape from such a warrior.

Fiorrello.8126:

personally i use this build it gives me great survivability and a wide range of counter combat options.

Whats the point of the 25% movement trait? You are using a Warhorn.

Dump it, get the 20% signet recharge. Perma swiftness up.

The only down trade is if someone manage to remove/steal/whatever your swfitness.

I actually run a roaming condi for WvW, and I gotta say it’s very viable. I use a S/S + LB setup that allows me to stay on opponents or create gaps as needed with a healing signet to stay in the fight. I usually roam alone but it also works fairly well in a group setting as a shock trooper, striking in with S/S and falling back and supporting with burns and AOE with LB. I’d say greatsword is definitely not worth it, I’d never trade the longbow for an escape move, you sacrifice a massive amount of damage and utility as greatsword doesn’t synergize well with a condi build and if you use one it’s purely for mobility.. If I’m outnumbered or out of my depth, popping signet of rage for swiftness and zerker’s stance to mitigate control and using the Sword #2 is usually enough to get me out of combat with the slower classes. Faster classes will usually chase but that just means you can re-engage when the fight is a little more even.

LoenWulf.7631:

I’d say greatsword is definitely not worth it, I’d never trade the longbow for an escape move, you sacrifice a massive amount of damage and utility as greatsword doesn’t synergize well with a condi build and if you use one it’s purely for mobility.

it would be indeed for mobility only. No sane warrior would use it otherwise in a condi build.

And it is indeed a loss in terms of dmg, but a warrior gains the greatest mobility in game. And the ability to hit and run.

I dunno…I love the pindown from longbow and kitten.
But the possiblity to engage and leave when , how and whenever I want is really tempting me.

btw it’s WvW Im talking about here. I would never consider gs in spvp with these kind of builds. Just sayin’.

On a side note, about Regen warrior builds and Apothecary. In my humble opinion it is not worth.
It is a perfect noobs-stomper build.
When you are fighting competent people with decent dps, with poison flying around…well that little regen you gain by sacrificing stats for healing power and by going deep Tactics it’s not gonna do very much.

Well if you build your condi warrior well you can really take advantage of the adrenaline mechanics on-crit and weapon swap. The passive trait that grants adrenaline on weapons swap coupled with cleansing ire really helps for sustainability. Swapping back and forth from LB to S/S helps control the pace of the fight and prevents the enemy from getting too comfortable with one particular set, not to mention the massive condition burst potential of the longbow. I find that in WvW, being able to finish your opponent as fast as possible is one of the most important aspects. Every minute you spend fighting in a 1v1 or a 1v2 is another minute where a zerg or possibly the rest of your oppenent’s guild could potentially show up to steamroll you, and no one wants that. In the end it’s your choice to make, you may die less with a GS on rotation, but you do make a sacrifice for that mobility.

Edit: This is coming from a guy who rarely bothers with sPvP. WvW roaming ftw!

GS would be really really bad. Thats not even close to a reasonable trade off. Pin down will do 18k dmg with stacks and burn will do ~1kper sec. Id much rather have that over a 1200 and 600 sprint.

Thats what i was thinking with apothecary gear, in the end all those stats for that trade off would just not be worth it. Ill probably get rabid first, since temples, badges, and dungeons. If that works really good ill just keep it. But if i still feel im missing something ill get dire. 20%critchance plus how easy it is to get perma fury would be really good combined with 28k health. I still dont know what would be best for sigils, earth or geomancy.

Also one last thing about apothecary. We can regen almost 1kper sec with it. Thats a lot. Maybe it is worth trade?

Carpboy.7145:

GS would be really really bad. Thats not even close to a reasonable trade off. Pin down will do 18k dmg with stacks and burn will do ~1kper sec. Id much rather have that over a 1200 and 600 sprint.

we can all agree that longbow grants the best condition dmg we can achieve coupled with our swords.

But I do not agree that it is not even a “reasonable” trade off.
The trade is between:
-Best damage achievable for condi war
-Best mobility achievable of all classes (aka halving, if not more your Deaths counter if that means something to you.)

Carpboy.7145:

Also one last thing about apothecary. We can regen almost 1kper sec with it. Thats a lot. Maybe it is worth trade?

How much healing can you achieve with FULL apothecary and 20 points into defense up to Cleansing Ire?

Like 1200healing?

1200 healing is something like 900 per second. (signet/adrenalx3/Regen banner)

200 healing (what you get with the defense traits) is something like 700 per second (signet/adrenalx3/Regen banner)

Is it worth?

and let’s not talk about the fact that if you plan to go that regen build, you are gonna spend 30 points into a tree with the worst Minor traits I’ve ever seen. Just to get a meh regen.

no, apo is hardly worth it if you use banner, but its very much worth it if you use shout healing and warhorn, especially come the next tuesday buff to shout healing. you can get plenty regen boon from friendlies, dogged march, warhorn converts and dwayna procs with +50% duration at least (provided you use dwayna). about mobility the 1h sword offers good mobility and dropping the longbow for a gs means no burns and no defensive combustion shots / pindowns to keep those thieves at bay and spike condi damage. keep in mind your best escape mobility on warrior is going into the water and using spear #5, around the ruins there are plenty of opportunities for that.

You’re probably right about 30 in tactics. Plus i already have 33% uptime on regen through dogged march which is good enough.

As for the GS, i just cant see that being useful in any situation for a condi build especially giving up the LB. you lose all ability to kite and so much damage its not worth being able to jump in and out of fights. Plus if you had LB to begin with, you wouldn’t need the GS to get away with.

Also here’s a quick rotation. Thoughts?

Almost always start in LB. pin down, and use FoF, Searing arrow, few autos and whatever until you get full adrenaline. Use F1 then swap to Sw/Sw. Use impale. Leap for fire shield, then use block. They should have tons of bleeds from autos on LB and Sw. From there, auto on sword until full adrenaline. If theyre at range, use leap and immediately F1. 5 1/2 sec of immobilize should finish most people off. But if they have lots if heals or cleanses. Either swap back to LB to finish them off or repeat rotation.

As for using Sw/WH. Eh. Sure its extra condi removal, but having to give up 10 trait points and Torment+block isn’t worth it to me.

Here is the build i would use. Maybe swapping a few pieces to dire depending how i feel after actually playing with it. But gotta level my warr first >_<

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIMQNAscTjkOpwFPCPMRCEkCNsKOKSilQpYOsjUBxA-jEyAINBRaBIVJQ5wioxWNLiGrmBTlSEV7QKiWtUAQMHA-w

what about runes? the build posted in here go for undead.

what about perplexity (even if we can’t interrupt, we can still apply on hit) Are they worth a try?

good spike combo is combustion shot -> pin down (arrives at the same time as combustion shot) -> smoldering while starting to close in -> fire fan at close range -> switch to sword -> autoattacks with sword untill 1 adrenaline bar -> flurry

thats with sword / warhorn / longbow

about using warhorn – rethink. it doesnt only massively cure conditions and is absolutely needed against condition builds if you dont run either burst mastery with cleansing ire or melandru and -condi duration food, but its a blast finisher on call to arms aswell (might) and applies 6 seconds of weakness which is an extra condition like torment and shuts down power bursts completely AND gives vigor. also it converts vulnerability into PROTECTION, just saying. and 100% swiftness uptime aswell is just icing on the cake. traited warhorn = most underrated warrior weapon imho, its simply amazing with +boon duration builds like 30 into tactics.

atreyu.9624:

what about runes? the build posted in here go for undead.

what about perplexity (even if we can’t interrupt, we can still apply on hit) Are they worth a try?

I do think x4 perplexity x2krait or something could be decent. I just dont like perplexity, even if not using the 6th bonus. Plus the x4 has a 15 sec ICD.

Carpboy.7145:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIMQNAscTjkOpwFPCPMRCEkCNsKOKSilQpYOsjUBxA-jEyAINBRaBIVJQ5wioxWNLiGrmBTlSEV7QKiWtUAQMHA-w

is leg specialist really needed? are you it taking for more chances of proccing fury?
Flurry and pindown should be enough for that.

Steelo.4597:

good spike combo is combustion shot -> pin down (arrives at the same time as combustion shot) -> smoldering while starting to close in -> fire fan at close range -> switch to sword -> autoattacks with sword untill 1 adrenaline bar -> flurry

thats with sword / warhorn / longbow

about using warhorn – rethink. it doesnt only massively cure conditions and is absolutely needed against condition builds if you dont run either fast hands and burst mastery or melandru and -condi duration food, but its a blast finisher on call to arms aswell (might) and applies 6 seconds of weakness which is an extra condition like torment and shuts down power bursts completely AND gives vigor. also it converts vulnerability into PROTECTION, just saying. and 100% swiftness uptime aswell is just icing on the cake. traited warhorn = most underrated warrior weapon imho, its simply amazing with +boon duration builds like 30 into tactics.

warhorn is great. I run that on my mace/gs build opposed to shield for obvious reasons.

But here I would have to replace the off-hand sword aaaaaargh.

Really the only way i could see myself using WH is a more defensive setup, since id be losing 5stacks of torment and easy 3stacks of bleed. And i just absolutely hate the aesthetics if a war horn. Doesnt look cool at all. But maybe once i actually get a chance to use the build ill like it more. The only big plus i can see is vuln in protection and weakness. But both of those would only be good against power builds anyway.

Btw what are the base durations of the boons you can get from WH? Could definitely change my opinion on it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing

yeah it doesnt look cool and i hate the sounds, but its a good weapon and covers the condition cleansing when you dont run burst mastery or afford that kitten expensive -duration food. i like my few coppers mango pie instead. the good thing usually is you get exactly what you need – power bursters who apply vulnerability give you protection, condi classes applying poison give you regeneration..

Part of why i was running opportunist was leg specialist yeah. Really easy perma fury there. But maybe traited signets with SoR would be enough uptime. Also leg specialist with sword auto and leap is just really awesome, even with an ICD for leg specialist.

so this is the starting gear I’ve been roaming with tonight for a couple of hours.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAscjikOMxBEkCNsKOPSilg8UKmj6A-jEyAoOBxcIhGbmEpaWENWlMkmBTxOkaHCRWNA-w

It has been a blast, didn’t expect to be this effective in wvw (I’ve played condi war only in spvp), and I don’t see myself going back to Power build anytime soon.

I’ve decided to go off-hand sword instead of warhorn for fun reasons. And to be more offensive.
Had to drop signet reachrge and go for 25% run speed, or I would have had 18seconds of no +movement speed at all. I would totally use signet recharge if I went Warhorn.

I might consider swap all armor for DIRE instead of RABID. And go from 42% base crit chance to 32%. While obviously reaching 24k hp.

32% (52% with perma fury up), still look pretty solid. But I’m still uncertain, I don’t want to lose offensiveness.

Still uncertain on the Food/Sigil

I’m using a sigil of Earth on main hand and doom/geomancy on the other 2 weapons. but they are just placeholders, before choosing something better.

Food I went Precision Oil, and – cond duration(defensive) on myself.

What do you guys suggest?

atreyu.9624:

so this is the starting gear I’ve been roaming with tonight for a couple of hours.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAscjikOMxBEkCNsKOPSilg8UKmj6A-jEyAoOBxcIhGbmEpaWENWlMkmBTxOkaHCRWNA-w

It has been a blast, didn’t expect to be this effective in wvw (I’ve played condi war only in spvp), and I don’t see myself going back to Power build anytime soon.

I’ve decided to go off-hand sword instead of warhorn for fun reasons. And to be more offensive.
Had to drop signet reachrge and go for 25% run speed, or I would have had 18seconds of no +movement speed at all. I would totally use signet recharge if I went Warhorn.

I might consider swap all armor for DIRE instead of RABID. And go from 42% base crit chance to 32%. While obviously reaching 24k hp.

32% (52% with perma fury up), still look pretty solid. But I’m still uncertain, I don’t want to lose offensiveness.

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Still uncertain on the Food/Sigil

I’m using a sigil of Earth on main hand and doom/geomancy on the other 2 weapons. but they are just placeholders, before choosing something better.

Food I went Precision Oil, and – cond duration(defensive) on myself.

What do you guys suggest?

You read my mind while i was at work. 10 in tactics wasnt helping at all. You still can get easy perma fury with Pin Down and Flurry. And 30 in arms lets you be able to use F1 skills on CD. Sw/LB have arguably some of the best F1s which is even better. I do think signets would work best with this build. SoR is just so great when traited, almost 100% uptime on fury, swiftness, and few might stacks. I dont really like mobile strikes, just because it is so situational. Plus with mobile strikes stances would be better, which also makes you take Stances last 25% longer (Stance Mastery or something) over dogged march.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAscTjkOpwBPGPMxBEkCNsKOPSilg8UKmD7A-jEyAoOBRaBIVJQ5Qio1MJY1sIasqbMdMRUtUAQMHA-w

Is what I will run when i get the chance. 20k HP is enough, though more would certainly be useful. 67% crit with fury. I also think more rabid over dire is best because as far as i know, Sigil of earth and the 5 in arms dont have an ICD, which makes dual shot on LB and flurry able to stack quite a bit of bleeds. One thing you could do with full dire though is use the Precision signet. Youd still have almost full rabid crit chance with the health of full dire. Id run berserker stance and either endure pain or balanced stance, along with the trait that gives vigor on use if stance.

As long as you can crit 3 or more times every 10sec, sigil of earth is better than geomancy. Since on swap sigils trigger on crit sigils, and vice versa, using both isnt really an option. Same thing with doom. Though you could use doom and corruption on sword, and earth on LB. could be good.

Since you said you tested it in WvW, did people cleanse a lot? If not pizza is better. Id even say its better even if they do have lots of cleanses, since the cleanses do have cool downs. Also making the fire on LB last longer is important, since the base durations from it are pretty low.

One last thing i just figured out about the full Dire over full Rabid. With the build i listed above, you only gain 4k health for 21% crit chance. Not worth it IMO. Both builds get perma fury easy, so rabid is actually better. You also do have 20% crit dmg. While not great, LB and main hand sword are hybrid weapons. Yet another reason rabid is better than dire.

Carpboy.7145:

Is what I will run when i get the chance. 20k HP is enough, though more would certainly be useful. 67% crit with fury. I also think more rabid over dire is best because as far as i know, Sigil of earth and the 5 in arms dont have an ICD, which makes dual shot on LB and flurry able to stack quite a bit of bleeds.

Sigil of Earth has a 2s ICD. Precise Strikes has no ICD.

And quite honestly, I don’t see the point behind going for Opportunist over Blademaster. If it’s +crit chance% you’re looking for, Blademaster is superior on average and up to 62% of the time. Opportunist is only a better option for those 18 seconds that your Signet of Rage is not providing you with Fury.

Carpboy.7145:

Since you said you tested it in WvW, did people cleanse a lot? If not pizza is better. Id even say its better even if they do have lots of cleanses, since the cleanses do have cool downs. Also making the fire on LB last longer is important, since the base durations from it are pretty low.

ye many build have good ways of cleansing.
I had a particular intense 1v1 with a good elementalist that kept removing condition quite easily. Managed a couple of time to bring hiw low enough, but his turtling away saved him his life.

Olba.5376:

Opportunist is only a better option for those 18 seconds that your Signet of Rage is not providing you with Fury.

the problem is also not having self-perma-swiftness. So I had to go for the 25% movement speed all the time instead of signet recharge. 18 secs of no +movement speed is a no go for me.

If I used Warhorn instead of sword off-hand, and so having Signet Recharge I would most likely use 10% crit on sword.

atreyu.9624:

Carpboy.7145:

Since you said you tested it in WvW, did people cleanse a lot? If not pizza is better. Id even say its better even if they do have lots of cleanses, since the cleanses do have cool downs. Also making the fire on LB last longer is important, since the base durations from it are pretty low.

ye many build have good ways of cleansing.
I had a particular intense 1v1 with a good elementalist that kept removing condition quite easily. Managed a couple of time to bring hiw low enough, but his turtling away saved him his life.

Olba.5376:

Opportunist is only a better option for those 18 seconds that your Signet of Rage is not providing you with Fury.

the problem is also not having self-perma-swiftness. So I had to go for the 25% movement speed all the time instead of signet recharge. 18 secs of no +movement speed is a no go for me.

If I used Warhorn instead of sword off-hand, and so having Signet Recharge I would most likely use 10% crit on sword.

Thats kinda what eles do though. Its the only thing they have that makes somewhat viable ATM. If hes 30 in water, running Ether Renewal and all the cleansing utilities, i can imagine what a hard fight that would be. The heal alone removes 8 conditions on a 15sec CD. But its a long, telegraphed channeled skill, easily interruptible, which is what makes it balanced. Also whenever they apply regeneration they remove a condition. I think he was just specced extremely heavily into condition removal, making him not be that good at anything else. Obviously an anti-condition build is going to counter yours pretty hard. But he also wasnt able to kill you. If someone has to retreat from me, not because the odds are inbalanced or they see a Zerg, i count that as a win. Especially against someone who was built so specifically to hard counter your build.

For those reasons i still think pizza is better. Hardly anyone is even capable of running such anti condition builds that youd get more use out of pizza. However, i did make one tiny tweak to the runes. I put x2 lyssa and x4 undead. That 10% condi duration from lyssa rounds out everything so perfectly. Autos on sword go to 16sec. Pin down goes to 23. Flurry immobilizes for 6sec(on an 8sec Cd), giving the opportunity to chain immobilize with Pin down and flurry, and keep it up. You could also run x6nightmare. Or x6 lyssa but i feel that one would work best with a 30 in tactics variation. X6 traveler is also good, allowing you to drop Warriors Sprint for signet recharge or something. By getting rid of x6undead, you only lose ~100 condi dmg(only about 5DPS from bleeds) in exchange for them potentially ticking 1 more sec which is better. And +10% just looks much better. Burns and torment will last 50% longer, and bleeds will last 100% longer.

Here’s an example. The BLOCK on sword(defensive skill) will do 15k with corruption stacks and SoR popped. Ouch! Combustive shot will potentially do 24k! Flurry will do 5.5k and immobilize for 6sec! Its to hawt, Seriously. Only thing that doesn’t round up is FoF. Shame

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAscTjkOpwBPGPMxBEkCNsKOPSilg8UKmD7A-jUyAoOBRaBIVJQ5Qio1MJYVMIVzpxqux0xER1SBAxcA-w

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAscTjkOpwtPGPMxBEkCNsKOKSipI9IMMj1A-jEyAoOBRaBIVJQ5Qio1MJYVsIasqbMdMRUtUAQMHA-w

Is something you could also run. Focuses more on boons and banners and less on frequent F1 skills. Could also run shouts over banners with shouts heal.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAscTjkOpwBPGPMxBEkCNsKOPSilg8UKmD7A-jECBoegYjBiWAgqIiJfFRjt+qIasqbY6YER1SBAxcA-w

This is the ultimate condition warrior build. The rabid/dire one will work until you can get celestial, but if you truly want to play condition Sw/Sw + LB warrior, this will be best. After reading the thread about celestial gear on warriors, i decided to experiment. You lose ~100 toughness and ~50-100 condi dmg, in exchange for ~200 power and 30% crit dmg. Since we’re 20 in Discipline, its 50% crit dmg, with ~47% crit chance. Sw and LB being such hybrid weapons, this is just soooo amazing!! You lose almost nothing for some fairly decent power dmg. (Think of it as another condition that cant be cleansed). Combined with full rabid trinkets means our bleeds, burn, and torment, will still tick very hard. We also gain a little extra healing power, which weve already established isnt that great for warrior, but it helps. Can regen ~750 HPS with Adrenal, HS, and Regen. I honestly dont know what to think. It seems OP. cant wait until i get enough charged quartz to really get down with this.