Guild Wars 2

JonPeters.5630:

Hammer
We are taking damage away from the hammer skills that do CC, because we don’t think it is ok for skills to do both of these things. I see a lot of comparison with Greatsword damage, but the Greatsword has no interrupts and a single cripple on the Bladetrail. We left the skills that do not do hard control alone such as Fierce Blow and Hammer Shock, as we are ok with those skills hitting hard because they do not actually disable. We also left Backbreaker alone because it has a long cast time and a long cooldown. The standard hammer build is still going to be very strong after this change, but it will open up options for mace to make a comeback as the control weapon.

Jon, as pointed out by others, wouldn’t it make more sense to remove or modify Merciless Hammer trait if that is the goal? Are you balancing Hammer with this trait in the particular build and that is the problem?

In lieu of nerfing Hammer (and Mace) generically, add a suitable option that enhances the goal (better CC/more interrupts/less damage); i.e. all hammer skills cause 1/4 second daze with Merciless Hammer and remove/adjust down the 25% damage if CC’d). This allows a non-focused PvE Hammer build to still have comparable damage at the base level.

EDIT: This assumes you all will be adding a fix to Perplexity Runes in the near future.

I’m going to sidestep the listed changes and mention something that needs to be done but hasn’t yet-

Dual Shot’s firing speed needs to be increased. It does very paltry damage and has a very sluggish rate of fire. While the Longbow is still effective in certain situations, this makes it a very poor choice as a primary weapon. Furthermore, the aftercast on Long Range Shot was reduced a couple of patches ago because it was always too long, so I’m not sure why it wasn’t here as well.

Einlanzer.1627:

I’m going to sidestep the listed changes and mention something that needs to be done but hasn’t yet-

Dual Shot’s firing speed needs to be increased. It does very paltry damage and has a very sluggish rate of fire. While the Longbow is still effective in certain situations, this makes it a very poor choice as a primary weapon. Furthermore, the aftercast on Long Range Shot was reduced a couple of patches ago because it was always too long, so I’m not sure why it wasn’t here as well.

Not part of this thread but the issue with Dual Shot getting an increased rate of fire is the Adrenaline building is already better than most of the other weapon sets (add Furious talent and it gets multiples better). So unless ANet changes it so only one of the two shots gets Adrenaline build, the rate of fire is already superior (especially compared to Rifle).

TL;DR I agree that Longbow feels ‘slow’ but that it probably the point since it gets multiple target attacks in the weapon set.

nicknamenick.2437:

•Combustive Shot – Increased pulse duration to 3s. Increased burn duration per pulse to 3s. Normalized damage per pulse. Updated pulses per tier to 2, 3,and 4 respectively for tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3.

Before
lvl1 4sec -pulses are on the 0 2 4 sec
lvl2 6sec -pulses are on the 0 2 4 6 sec
lvl3 8sec -pulses are on the 0 2 4 6 8 sec

After:
lvl1 3sec -pulses are on the 0 3 sec
lvl2 6sec -pulses are on the 0 3 6 sec
lvl3 9sec -pulses are on the 0 3 6 9 sec

Anyone can see its a big nerf for raw damage.
But Anet wants us to get less adrenaline for this burst.
Some people already shared there suggestion to reduce the adrenaline from it like:

Suggestion:

lvl1 4sec pulses are on the 0+ 2- 4- sec
lvl2 6sec pulses are on the 0+ 2- 4+ 6- sec
lvl3 8sec pulses are on the 0+ 2- 4+ 6- 8+ sec
-no adrenaline from this pulse
+gain adrenaline from this pulse

So:
lvl 1 gives 1 adrenaline on pulse 0
lvl 2 gives 2 adrenaline on pulse 0 and 4
lvl 3 gives 3 adrenaline on pulse 0 and 4 and 6

Anet still got there adrenaline nerf from it but we keep the same damage/pulses.
too implement something like this is much easier compared to the suggestion Anet is making: increase burning, increase pulses duration (its actually increasing the time between them..), and reduce the number of pulses.

Anet happy and we are happy :-)

Sorry, but do you REALLY believe it is just about the Adrenaline gain? I read the entire mechanic is OP and they need to tone it down by reducing dmg, adrenaline, and the fact it has such a quick recast.

mini.6018:

Xurse.8267:

Dear support staff,

I normally dont post in forum with regards to updates but just read them. I personally felt this nerf gone way too far. I am actually okay with the hammer nerf in terms of damage as I understand that it is OP when I use it myself. What I could not accept is why is mace getting nerf and with regards to all these nerf there isn’t any additional buffs to other areas to open more options for build. I fought several classes 1v1 and I don’t think I am a real bad player but is having a lot of trouble to kill them , like for example for mesmer that illusion, evade and stealth rotation is totally lame and its not getting nerf, you can barely land a burst on them and when u finally stun them they teleport away, meanwhile you are suffering from tons of conditions which means you are pretty much dead unless you run. I think the dev team is too focused on nerfing OP areas due to QQers but neglected the fun of the class itself whereby so many weapon is left unused like rifle, axe and GS(Seriously you expect us to hit stuff with it when 3 out of the 5 skill always fail due to lag). Please give us buff in other areas like u did with guardian when you nerf us.

And the only weapon that was kind of viable againts mesmers is getting a huge nerf besides all that.Yes i am talking about bow.Bow/mace is the most nerfed build in this patch even more than hammer/x since mace lacks mobility and without the strong aoe you wouldnt even be able to kill the clones,besides no cripple/weakness and aoe stun/damage/mobility a hammer still has over mace.I am strongly considering to move on if the patch will prove too kitten fun builds.No go for booring fotm dire or pvt for me.

You should know … Ah, you know that, Mesmer is the baby from Anet so they never touch this crazy clone wars class. Guard is in the same spot. I vote for a complete redesign but “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks”.

JonPeters.5630:

Here are my comments on what we have seen discussed so far with the warrior changes.

Unsuspecting Foe
I’ve seen some concerns about moving this to master tier. This comes down to the core philosophy that drove the warrior changes for this build. Warriors by nature have a lot of survivability, and we need them to make a choice between heavy control and heavy damage. This trait is a way for them to circumvent that and is therefore build defining. In many ways it exemplifies what a grandmaster trait is all about, however we felt that moving it all the way to grandmaster was overkill, but that placing it at the master tier allowed warriors to still run this with other traits, but have to make some sacrifices to do so.

Thrill of the Kill
I’ve heard some concerns about this being permanent max adrenaline in WvW zerg fights. We understand that, but given the fact that this trait competes with Warrior’s Sprint, Vigorous Focus, Signet Mastery, and Inspiring Shouts, we feel like players that take Thirll of the Kill we be giving up a sufficient amount of effectiveness to counter this. There are so many other reliable ways to gain adrenaline as is that I can’t imagine this tipping the scales as much as one of the other adept traits in this line.

Hammer
We are taking damage away from the hammer skills that do CC, because we don’t think it is ok for skills to do both of these things. I see a lot of comparison with Greatsword damage, but the Greatsword has no interrupts and a single cripple on the Bladetrail. We left the skills that do not do hard control alone such as Fierce Blow and Hammer Shock, as we are ok with those skills hitting hard because they do not actually disable. We also left Backbreaker alone because it has a long cast time and a long cooldown. The standard hammer build is still going to be very strong after this change, but it will open up options for mace to make a comeback as the control weapon.

Longbow
A lot of thought went into the change to combustive shot. This skill was simply too effective at renewing itself. One of the drawbacks of the burst skills needs to be losing your adrenaline, but this skill was easily able to restore all of the adrenaline it lost. Rather than reduce the burn duration we reduced the # of attacks this skill creates because we felt it made it more counterable in PvP and less reliable in PvE as an adrenaline builder.

Mace
I highly suggest being patient with this change. I understand this skill did not need an increased cast time in PvE, but this change just makes this skill feel a lot more impactful, and a change of 200 milliseconds of cast increase is not going to impact its use against creatures, but will greatly make this skill more counterable in PvP and WvW. Some discussion here revolved around defiant, which is causing a lot of control builds to be neutered in PvE. We agree and we will start making strides towards solving that in the future.

Sorry I got to you guys last, I truly did just go through these in alphabetical order.

Thanks,

Jon

Jon I understand that your team doesn’t want to have warriors using CC and DMG on one build but I want to comment on warrior changes and to suggest some by my opinion better solutions

So, lets start:

Strength 5 – Reckless Dodge. Increased Damage by 25% – this is nice boost, but I don’t see lot of use in WvWvW and PvP since of little range
Strength III – Great Fortitude. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 7%. all so a nice boost but nothing special
Arms IV – Unsuspecting Foe. Moved to Master Tier. This is smart move and really nicely done nerff
Arms VII – Crack Shot. Moved to Adept Tier. This is meeee buff since no one is using rifle in WvWvW or PvP, I would love to see VIII instead in adept
Arms XII – Last Chance. Increased the threshold form 25% to 50%. Reduced the cooldown from 45 seconds to 40seconds. – realy nice buff but I see this more as PvE buff then PvP or WvWvW
Defense 25 – Armored Attack. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 10%. This I like wary much and thank you
Defense XII – Spiked Armor. Reduced the recharge from 15s to 10s. wary nice buff but as someone wrote this should have been like this since start
Tactics 5 – Determined Revival. Now correctly displays the amount of toughness. fix, cool
Tactics 25 – Reviver’s Might. Now applies 3 stacks of Might instead of 1. this is meeee realy a buff but pffff its so small, maybe you could change like this in 25 of Discipline
Discipline II – Thrill of the Kill. Increased Adrenaline gain from 1 to 10. nice buff but from all good things in this trait I don’t see lot of players using this
Discipline XI – Burst Mastery. Reduced damage increase from 10% to 7%. Removed erroneous adrenaline gain fact. As I understand this, your lowering damage and removing adrenaline lowering cost and that is too much or this isn’t a grandmaster tier skill – my suggestion is either lower DMG or remove the adrenaline lowering cost but not bouth
now it gets complicated
Earthshaker. Reduced damage by 20%. man its just too much, I agree this skill needs a nerff but this is too big so I have 2 possible solutions
1. Make damage scale with adrenaline level so 1st stage will be -20% 2nd -10% and 3rd will be same damage as now.
2. And by my opinion better solution is 1st stage will have same damage as now 2nd -10% and 3rd -20% damage this way you would be able to choose if you want to do better damage or more CC, this would be a nerf but fer to both warriors and opponents
Staggering Blow. Reduced damage by 23%. its too much 10-15% would be a fer deal, my opinion 13%
Skull Crack. Increased the cast time from 1/4s to 1/2s. Updated the animation and effects of this skill to be more clear. cast time now is 250 ms and the increase isn’t as you stated 200 ms it is 250 ms and you say no one will notice it. Mate this is double increase in casting time its 100% increase. Really no need for this, you all so wrote you want mace to be more used for CC then before – I don’t see this helping
Combustive Shot – Increased pulse duration to 3s. Increased burn duration per pulse to 3s. Normalized damage per pulse. Updated pulses per tier to 2, 3,and 4 respectively for tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3. As I understand your doing this because Combustive Shot is returning spent adrenaline, so why don’t you make all F1 skills not give adrenaline when used

2 days ago it was my b-day as warrior so I got lot of time playing warrior if you nerf dmg of hammer skills so hard that weapon wont be used by warriors anymore and I think that would be ashame because thats one of most fun weapons warriors poses

Picture shows 3 abilities. one skill can poses 2, short cast time is less then 1 sec or 1000 ms
Please don’t make of warrior guardian without support

Drekavac.4920:

So, lets start:

Strength 5 – Reckless Dodge. Increased Damage by 25% – this is nice boost, but I don’t see lot of use in WvWvW and PvP since of little range
Strength III – Great Fortitude. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 7%. all so a nice boost but nothing special
Arms IV – Unsuspecting Foe. Moved to Master Tier. This is smart move and really nicely done nerff
Arms VII – Crack Shot. Moved to Adept Tier. This is meeee buff since no one is using rifle in WvWvW or PvP, I would love to see VIII instead in adept
Arms XII – Last Chance. Increased the threshold form 25% to 50%. Reduced the cooldown from 45 seconds to 40seconds. – realy nice buff but I see this more as PvE buff then PvP or WvWvW
Defense 25 – Armored Attack. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 10%. This I like wary much and thank you
Defense XII – Spiked Armor. Reduced the recharge from 15s to 10s. wary nice buff but as someone wrote this should have been like this since start
Tactics 5 – Determined Revival. Now correctly displays the amount of toughness. fix, cool
Tactics 25 – Reviver’s Might. Now applies 3 stacks of Might instead of 1. this is meeee realy a buff but pffff its so small, maybe you could change like this in 25 of Discipline
Discipline II – Thrill of the Kill. Increased Adrenaline gain from 1 to 10. nice buff but from all good things in this trait I don’t see lot of players using this
Discipline XI – Burst Mastery. Reduced damage increase from 10% to 7%. Removed erroneous adrenaline gain fact. As I understand this, your lowering damage and removing adrenaline lowering cost and that is too much or this isn’t a grandmaster tier skill – my suggestion is either lower DMG or remove the adrenaline lowering cost but not bouth
now it gets complicated
Earthshaker. Reduced damage by 20%. man its just too much, I agree this skill needs a nerff but this is too big so I have 2 possible solutions
1. Make damage scale with adrenaline level so 1st stage will be -20% 2nd -10% and 3rd will be same damage as now.
2. And by my opinion better solution is 1st stage will have same damage as now 2nd -10% and 3rd -20% damage this way you would be able to choose if you want to do better damage or more CC, this would be a nerf but fer to both warriors and opponents
Staggering Blow. Reduced damage by 23%. its too much 10-15% would be a fer deal, my opinion 13%
Skull Crack. Increased the cast time from 1/4s to 1/2s. Updated the animation and effects of this skill to be more clear. cast time now is 250 ms and the increase isn’t as you stated 200 ms it is 250 ms and you say no one will notice it. Mate this is double increase in casting time its 100% increase. Really no need for this, you all so wrote you want mace to be more used for CC then before – I don’t see this helping
Combustive Shot – Increased pulse duration to 3s. Increased burn duration per pulse to 3s. Normalized damage per pulse. Updated pulses per tier to 2, 3,and 4 respectively for tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3. As I understand your doing this because Combustive Shot is returning spent adrenaline, so why don’t you make all F1 skills not give adrenaline when used

2 days ago it was my b-day as warrior so I got lot of time playing warrior if you nerf dmg of hammer skills so hard that weapon wont be used by warriors anymore and I think that would be ashame because thats one of most fun weapons warriors poses

Picture shows 3 abilities. one skill can poses 2, short cast time is less then 1 sec or 1000 ms
Please don’t make of warrior guardian without support

This is so true, and btw please make GS a more viable weapon, its total bullshet as of now. Too much set up in order to hit with HB, and other than that nothing else hurts, maybe whirlwind that doesnt hit half of the time cause the opponent has lag way ahead of you in terms of placement unless u shackle them on the spot.

Anet pls tell me: Why Mesmer, Engineer oder Ranger will be untouched? I mean untouched: They perform as allways! Warrior isn´t the strongest class in this game and for sure, he have the weakest utility i have ever seen. Even the wow-cataclysm was in the same spot. Business as usual?! In every 1 vs 1 fight (without Hambow) he is the underdog. That´s fact! I´m playing my (round about 100h) Mesmer or Guard more successful. Don´t think i am a noob and have no clue. My english is /sorry\ too close for writing a wall of text with all (my) detailed censures. No warrior will/can accept the patchnotes because they was over the top. You can say good-bye to that! Otherwise the warrior-class is obsolete.

Until the day comes when Anet will seperate pvp from wvw and pve as it was meant to be by default all these changes based on small scaled fights or even 1vs1 , will be a complete and absolute failure . But let me explain .

Jon came here and shared his thoughts which i find it encouraging since it shows that he really tries to be in touch with the community .

All these things he said i find them logical when it comes to pvp or 1vs1 . But what about WvW ? or pve ? do they really make any difference there ? i think not . The reason why is just because when you deal with mass scale battles , which also involves siege mashines etc etc , it won’t be the same the impact effect of those skills are easier to be countered and even if it is not it won’t make a difference since the numbers / organazations wins always .

I won’t debate on any changes i see until Anet make a complete and seperate logic about what changes should be implemented or both cases . WvW is not tpvp and the opposite . Anet indroduced them as completely different aspects of the game . On what sort of basis all these changes are implemented ? .

There is nothing more to discuss , since everyone here comes and express his opinion according to his needs / preferences according to the type of game he /she plays . Everyone is telling the truth but they do not play the same thing .

convince me that i am really that game breaking when i am using hambow in EB or any BL that i need to be nerfed when i have to face up twice or thrice the numbers that iahve on my side , and guess what there are hambow’s on the other side too . balance restored imo .

Anyway i am not trying to convince anyone just sharing my thoughts like you guys do . As long as it is unclear in what sort of basis all these “balance patches” comes out i don’t think there is really anything to discuss …

I hope Jon could contribute on my thoughts .

take care

Olba.5376:

Exactly how do you think that changing the hammer meta from 0/10/30/0/30 to 20/0/20/0/30 is going to make them squishier?

The only reason that the current meta hammer warrior is strong is because of the combination of UF+Merciless Hammer+Burst-mastery, resulting to a tankier High damage CC build. By following the scenario will be more of the line of 20/20/x/0/x/. Either you will invest in defense but loosing Burst-mastery or invest in Burst Mastery and loose in defense. Thus resulting to damage reduction without the need to nerf the hammer damage directly. Anyway the point was to remove Merciless Hammer from defense line. If you however nerf the damage of the hammer and the burst mastery trait in combination with a 20 points investment for UF is a bit too much according my opinion. But as i said before, remains to be seen, how those changes in burst mastery + hammer nerfs work out.

The other problem that i see is that by reducing the damage from “burst mastery” will affect other weaker builds, that are depending on it. After all the proposal is 3% less damage. It might seen not so much, but 3% damage reduction to weaker builds is a bit hard.

Regards

Seed

Hratgard.8310:

Until the day comes when Anet will seperate pvp from wvw and pve as it was meant to be by default all these changes based on small scaled fights or even 1vs1 , will be a complete and absolute failure . But let me explain .

Jon came here and shared his thoughts which i find it encouraging since it shows that he really tries to be in touch with the community .

All these things he said i find them logical when it comes to pvp or 1vs1 . But what about WvW ? or pve ? do they really make any difference there ? i think not . The reason why is just because when you deal with mass scale battles , which also involves siege mashines etc etc , it won’t be the same the impact effect of those skills are easier to be countered and even if it is not it won’t make a difference since the numbers / organazations wins always .

I won’t debate on any changes i see until Anet make a complete and seperate logic about what changes should be implemented or both cases . WvW is not tpvp and the opposite . Anet indroduced them as completely different aspects of the game . On what sort of basis all these changes are implemented ? .

There is nothing more to discuss , since everyone here comes and express his opinion according to his needs / preferences according to the type of game he /she plays . Everyone is telling the truth but they do not play the same thing .

convince me that i am really that game breaking when i am using hambow in EB or any BL that i need to be nerfed when i have to face up twice or thrice the numbers that iahve on my side , and guess what there are hambow’s on the other side too . balance restored imo .

Anyway i am not trying to convince anyone just sharing my thoughts like you guys do . As long as it is unclear in what sort of basis all these “balance patches” comes out i don’t think there is really anything to discuss …

I hope Jon could contribute on my thoughts .

take care

The thing is, Jon is a gamedesigner and certainly NOT a guy who have the talent or the know how to balance all the classes. He/they have very good ideas – around the game – but class-balance is an borrowed word. I dont know WHY so many ppl have trouble with wars, with my guard or mesmer i destroy warrior indiffrend which build i run.

As someone who play WvW on a light-armored class all the time I’m happy about the hammer nerf, it was about time something was done even if it will not make that much of a difference.

Something should be done about immobilize and immobilize stacking as well.

People saying the warrior-class is now “obsolete” have obviously never duelled as an ele against them.

Sorry, but WvW is not “real” pvp for me.

doesn’t really matter what you or me think of “real” pvp . All i am saying is that when some changes comes around in every class should be treated differently in tpvp and wvw . They are not the same thing .

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Miko.5726:

Sorry, but WvW is not “real” pvp for me.

Yeah, ok. But many many many more people play WvW than PvP. So getting WvW right is arguably more important.

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

coglin.1867:

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

How much damage do you think it even does?

coglin.1867:

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

Try to land a hit on a skilled Mesmer, Engineer or Ranger without a cc and damage weapon. Otherwise you have NO pressure on your opponent. Warrior have no port, no stealth and other gimmik “op” utilities. Only the Hambow-Build is atm viable in t or spvp and this will be nerfed over the top. What comes after that? Quo vadis Warrior?

Hammer damage had to be tuned down. And I agree with all the proposed changes made to the hammer. But, at the same time, I would have expected some drastic changes in a domain where the warrior is at the end of the food chain, i.e. 1 v 1 combat.

It’s ridiculously too easy for an engineer, a mesmer, a thief, a guardian, etc… to no-match a warrior in a 1 v 1 combat. And I don’t understand why this issue is still not addressed.

When the game was released, the power/crit build, with HB, eviscerate, and frenzy, was ridiculously over powered, and was nerved for a good reason. But since this fix, which warrior build is supposed to have a decent chance in 1 v 1 combat ? Which warrior fix is supposed to address this issue in the last released patches ? Just tell me.

May be, it’s not the warrior that is under-powered, but the other classes that are over powered in 1 v 1. I don’t know. But please, fix it!

And yes, everything would be just more easier for you and us if WvWvW had a different balance board than sPvP.

TooBz.3065:

Miko.5726:

Sorry, but WvW is not “real” pvp for me.

Yeah, ok. But many many many more people play WvW than PvP. So getting WvW right is arguably more important.

You´re absolutly right! But this is Anet´s problem. Warrior perfom very well in WvW or in PvE; in tPvP or sPvP he is – without hambow-build – just cannon fodder. After 10th of december he is once again – obsolete.

nicknamenick.2437:

@ NargofWov:

From Anet:
Longbow
A lot of thought went into the change to combustive shot. This skill was simply too effective at renewing itself. One of the drawbacks of the burst skills needs to be losing your adrenaline, but this skill was easily able to restore all of the adrenaline it lost. Rather than reduce the burn duration we reduced the # of attacks this skill creates because we felt it made it more counterable in PvP and less reliable in PvE as an adrenaline builder.

Btw besides the adrenaline, why is combustive shot OP?
lvl1 and 2 are small Aoe fields.. only lvl3 is big, but hey you dont stand on necro’s marks also do you? now the time between the pulses are so kitten long you dont even know you get damage from it.. just dodge over and lol combustive shot. maby you get 1 pulse from it.. whoopie!

@ nicknamenick

Re read : Combustive Shot – Increased pulse duration to 3s. Increased burn duration per pulse to 3s. Normalized damage per pulse. Updated pulses per tier to 2, 3,and 4 respectively for tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3.

Why are they worrying about “normalized damage per pulse” if the current dmg was acceptable? I seriously doubt they intend to increase damage here. This is the way they communicate nerf’s to us.

I feel that they are hitting the Hambow builds from too many angles. They are suggesting moving UF, flat out nerfed ES and Stagger, and reducing the damage bonus from Burst Mastery.

That’kittenting the build from three different angles. The UF move makes it basically impossible to take both that and Burst Mastery unless you decide to drop Cleansing Ire. Just losing one of those traits seems like plenty of a DPS nerf, either you don’t crit nearly as often or you have less frequent access to ES and lower adrenaline gain. To me, you’ve basically removed UF as a trait because I value Burst Mastery more. No Burst Mastery = longer cooldown and less adrenaline gain which means less frequent use of Cleansing Ire which means conditions can overpower me.

Reducing the effect of UF to 25%-30% would at least make it worth using, I can’t see bringing it otherwise. Having +50% crit chance is not worth losing either Cleansing Ire or Burst Mastery. Maybe make the bonus as low as 15% but have it apply to all control skills like knock down and knock back.

This to me is not shaving, this is equivalent to one major nerf spread out among several skills and traits, which if you ask me is worse.

JonPeters.5630:

WARRIOR

• Combustive Shot. To clarify this change, the damage is normalized to about 15% less physical damage than it used to do at all adrenaline levels, but that the damage per pulse is the same regardless of adrenaline level.

coglin.1867:

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

Just did a test just then. Lvl 80 Warrior, lvl 80 Guardian and lvl 80 elementalist. All with 3.3k attack on LA training dummies.

Warrior Earthshaker results
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon :1349, 1428, 1534, 1467, 1402

Guardian Mighty Blow results
3.3k attack Ascended Weapon: 1831, 1903, 1874, 1827, 2000
3.25k attack Exotic Weapon : 1720, 1888, 1774, 1702, 1862

Elementalist Lightning Whip Results
3.3k attack Exotic weapon : 1612, 1518, 1614, 1598, 1590

Not only that the desired crowd control you’re looking for in the ability requires a charge time. Not saying guardian or elementalists need a nerf, but their damage abilities are far outperforming a burst ability, so what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me.

Edit:
Warrior Staggering Blow
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon: 1351 1528 1378 1500 1576

@Burr: that sounds exactly like the kind of decision and tradeoff they want for warriors. Each choice has implications on your build and playstyle. You don’t just get it all in a nice, neat bundle.

Is that really such a bad thing? I already skip burst mastery for more survivability and utility. On my necro I frequently wish I had 10 more trait points. That is how your build fills a role instead of all roles.

War reminds me, let me tell you: Classic Volkswagen Bus? Or maybe an old Ford Mustang? Very cheesy and nice to play BUT vs the new automobiles with automatic tansition gearshift like clones, minions, pets or magic he looks very old and outdated.

JonPeters.5630:

Some discussion here revolved around defiant, which is causing a lot of control builds to be neutered in PvE. We agree and we will start making strides towards solving that in the future.

Jon

Do you have more information on this?
It baffles me that anet is preparing to make PvE CC more broken to fix it in WvW with out actually adjusting this at the same time. The way this is worded sounds more like “yeah, we’re going to think about it”. With out anything solid this sounds like another precursor scavenger hunt promise that has lasted about a year this far. Basically saying you’ll eventually get around to it tells me anet doesn’t care as much about people in PvE as they do WvW. . . . .

Anet seems to always make sure that they are releasing things with a higher standard then a quick fix even if it means waiting a bit. So why not now?

This really should be addressed together.

JonPeters.5630:

WARRIOR

• Combustive Shot. To clarify this change, the damage is normalized to about 15% less physical damage than it used to do at all adrenaline levels, but that the damage per pulse is the same regardless of adrenaline level.

So is the 15% less damage normalized before or after the change of pulse tick from 2s to 3s? Because if it is before … Longbow is effectively relegated to a PvE only weapon (similar to “normalized” MH Axe autoattack chain) where AI of mobs don’t move outside of the AoE but even that is slightly difficult with the newer Toxic mobs jumping about.

Is that really the intention to move Combustive Shot damage output to such a low and relatively worthless level for a F1 adrenaline attack? You do realize that with Berserker’s Might, the Warrior would do more damage over those 9s if it didn’t use the Adrenaline at all, right? Back of the hand math, use of Combustive Shot becomes a full Adrenaline loss AND a DPS decrease over autoattack with a cleave weapon.

Why did ANet increase the effectiveness of Longbow from release until last month when you all started adjusting it back downward? What changed in the methodology of the design of the weapon to warrant these modifications to the F1 Combustive Shot?

As a player, this is totaling confusing since no one in the community mentioned the ability being too powerful/spammable compared to dozens of other abilities across several different classes. It’s akin to the message of: go play another class while we figure this Warrior thing out.

Hold off on changing anything more than absolutely necessary for the health of the game.

Kelly.5293:

JonPeters.5630:

Some discussion here revolved around defiant, which is causing a lot of control builds to be neutered in PvE. We agree and we will start making strides towards solving that in the future.

Jon

Do you have more information on this?
It baffles me that anet is preparing to make PvE CC more broken to fix it in WvW with out actually adjusting this at the same time. The way this is worded sounds more like “yeah, we’re going to think about it”. With out anything solid this sounds like another precursor scavenger hunt promise that has lasted about a year this far. Basically saying you’ll eventually get around to it tells me anet doesn’t care as much about people in PvE as they do WvW. . . . .

Anet seems to always make sure that they are releasing things with a higher standard then a quick fix even if it means waiting a bit. So why not now?

This really should be addressed together.

It’s akin to the message of: go play another class while we figure this Warrior thing out.

A major Warrior revamp may be necessary but to piecemeal change without a full battle plan is setting up a disastrous situation.

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Burr: that sounds exactly like the kind of decision and tradeoff they want for warriors. Each choice has implications on your build and playstyle. You don’t just get it all in a nice, neat bundle.

Is that really such a bad thing? I already skip burst mastery for more survivability and utility. On my necro I frequently wish I had 10 more trait points. That is how your build fills a role instead of all roles.

The goal is to supposedly decrease the damage that tough CC builds can do, but what these changes have the potential to do is make Hammer an inferior version of Guardian. What’s the point if running Hammer means having poor damage and less sustain than Guardian? The perfect place for builds like Hambow would be:

- Sustain that is good but less than a bunker Guardian. Check.
- Tons of CC. Check Check.
- Damage that is greater than a bunker Guardian but have it tied to skills like Backbreaker and Staggering Blow. Currently I’ll agree that the damage output it too great on Soldier gear, but it looks like the proposed changes would not only make me NEVER take UF, but could also reduce the damage so much it might just not be worth using. CC alone probably won’t be enough to be worth having on a team.

The UF move is not forcing me to decide what I want because I can’t think of many Warriors who would be willing to give up Cleansing Ire or Burst Mastery, both have much greater benefits than UF. So no, they aren’t really forcing a choice, they are removing it.

What I would suggest once again is to make the damage from Earthshaker apply before the stun, and have the damage scale with adrenaline level. On another note they are also making Combustive Shot potentially worthless because it’s not hard to count to 3 and move out of the circle or dodge. So they are actually hitting the damage from FOUR angles.

I’m curious as to what they are going to buff. If they are going to make hammer a medium dmg/high cc weapon are they increasing the stun/knockdown durations by 1 second or reducing cool down timers so we have access to them sooner? So far, all I read is take take take and no return. I see nothing explaining how they are focusing the weapon on a specific niche or how they plan to "balance" the weapon out besides, "let’s nerf the damage and some associated traits then call it a day."

I really want to hear the thorough thought out approach as to why they view this as a needed change.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I’m curious as to what they are going to buff. If they are going to make hammer a medium dmg/high cc weapon are they increasing the stun/knockdown durations by 1 second or reducing cool down timers so we have access to them sooner? So far, all I read is take take take and no return. I see nothing explaining how they are focusing the weapon on a specific niche or how they plan to “balance” the weapon out besides, “let’s nerf the damage and some associated traits then call it a day.”

I really want to hear the thorough thought out approach as to why they view this as a needed change.

Bc decent players actually doesnt have problems with warrior, its purely a noob killer, and they want make war noob friendly too.

I mean just take a look on kill shot..2sec cast time not counting travel time? Okay..

Celestial hybrid rifle engie, condi bunker mes (or any well-played mes for that matter), well-played d/p thief, and well-played power necro.

I’d like Anet to explain to us what build we should be using to have a snowball’s chance in hell of beating any of those builds after Dec. 10th.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I’m curious as to what they are going to buff. If they are going to make hammer a medium dmg/high cc weapon are they increasing the stun/knockdown durations by 1 second or reducing cool down timers so we have access to them sooner? So far, all I read is take take take and no return. I see nothing explaining how they are focusing the weapon on a specific niche or how they plan to “balance” the weapon out besides, “let’s nerf the damage and some associated traits then call it a day.”

I really want to hear the thorough thought out approach as to why they view this as a needed change.

You are making the assumption that there is a long-term plan and this is not a knee-jerk reaction to destroy one Warrior overpowered spec and have multiple ripple effects on weapon sets on the whole for all Warriors.

Realization, with these Dec 10th changes as is, are Warriors with all of their selections in weapons now relegated to just a few core weapon choices? Thank goodness Ele conjure weapons keep getting improvements so Warriors have a melee/ranged weapon to use. But I guess there is always Banners.

Artaz.3819:

You are making the assumption that there is a long-term plan and this is not a knee-jerk reaction to destroy one Warrior overpowered spec and have multiple ripple effects on weapon sets on the whole for all Warriors.

Yeah, whatever happened to not playing whack-a-mole balance?! Isn’t that exactly what this nerf is?

Unsuspecting foe needs a nerf. And it’s getting one. Why are we ALSO seeing hammer get hit? And Burst Mastery? And Combustive shot?

Isn’t that because that’s the current Warrior meta? And isn’t nerfing the current meta exactly what whack-a-mole balancing is?!

JonPeters.5630:

Here are my comments on what we have seen discussed so far with the warrior changes.

Unsuspecting Foe
I’ve seen some concerns about moving this to master tier. This comes down to the core philosophy that drove the warrior changes for this build. Warriors by nature have a lot of survivability, and we need them to make a choice between heavy control and heavy damage. This trait is a way for them to circumvent that and is therefore build defining. In many ways it exemplifies what a grandmaster trait is all about, however we felt that moving it all the way to grandmaster was overkill, but that placing it at the master tier allowed warriors to still run this with other traits, but have to make some sacrifices to do so.

Thrill of the Kill
I’ve heard some concerns about this being permanent max adrenaline in WvW zerg fights. We understand that, but given the fact that this trait competes with Warrior’s Sprint, Vigorous Focus, Signet Mastery, and Inspiring Shouts, we feel like players that take Thirll of the Kill we be giving up a sufficient amount of effectiveness to counter this. There are so many other reliable ways to gain adrenaline as is that I can’t imagine this tipping the scales as much as one of the other adept traits in this line.

Hammer
We are taking damage away from the hammer skills that do CC, because we don’t think it is ok for skills to do both of these things. I see a lot of comparison with Greatsword damage, but the Greatsword has no interrupts and a single cripple on the Bladetrail. We left the skills that do not do hard control alone such as Fierce Blow and Hammer Shock, as we are ok with those skills hitting hard because they do not actually disable. We also left Backbreaker alone because it has a long cast time and a long cooldown. The standard hammer build is still going to be very strong after this change, but it will open up options for mace to make a comeback as the control weapon.

Longbow
A lot of thought went into the change to combustive shot. This skill was simply too effective at renewing itself. One of the drawbacks of the burst skills needs to be losing your adrenaline, but this skill was easily able to restore all of the adrenaline it lost. Rather than reduce the burn duration we reduced the # of attacks this skill creates because we felt it made it more counterable in PvP and less reliable in PvE as an adrenaline builder.

Mace
I highly suggest being patient with this change. I understand this skill did not need an increased cast time in PvE, but this change just makes this skill feel a lot more impactful, and a change of 200 milliseconds of cast increase is not going to impact its use against creatures, but will greatly make this skill more counterable in PvP and WvW. Some discussion here revolved around defiant, which is causing a lot of control builds to be neutered in PvE. We agree and we will start making strides towards solving that in the future.

Sorry I got to you guys last, I truly did just go through these in alphabetical order.

Thanks,

Jon

Why the nerf to Burst Mastery? Doesn’t that just hurt other builds too? I realize it’s not a huge nerf, but it doesn’t seem like a necessary one either.

There’s nothing wrong with hammer as it is now.

If there are imbalances they are elsewhere. Should be really obvious if you look at what was changed.

It is pretty sad how pvp is at the state where you got only few viable and pretty much “op” builds for each class.

Let’s put and example. I am somewhat experienced playing both warrior and necro. So I go around with my fun necro build in wvw and there’s this one warrior. I cannot put his hp below 80% at any point even when I have pretty much maxed out berserker gear. Like… kitten much? Warrior regenerates all the berserker geared damage and defensive/cc conditions last like 0.0003 seconds. I don’t blame hammer. Really now.

jalmari.3906:

Let’s put and example. I am somewhat experienced playing both warrior and necro. So I go around with my fun necro build in wvw and there’s this one warrior. I cannot put his hp below 80% at any point even when I have pretty much maxed out berserker gear. Like… kitten much? Warrior regenerates all the berserker geared damage and defensive/cc conditions last like 0.0003 seconds. I don’t blame hammer. Really now.

No real way to comment about your particular situation with one Warrior counter-build unless you post a video of it.

Maxed out Berserker gear is not helping your case since Warrior’s have defensive options to wait out your initial Fear burst/Lich form (just like every other class can do).

Kai.9182:

coglin.1867:

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

Just did a test just then. Lvl 80 Warrior, lvl 80 Guardian and lvl 80 elementalist. All with 3.3k attack on LA training dummies.

Warrior Earthshaker results
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon :1349, 1428, 1534, 1467, 1402

Guardian Mighty Blow results
3.3k attack Ascended Weapon: 1831, 1903, 1874, 1827, 2000
3.25k attack Exotic Weapon : 1720, 1888, 1774, 1702, 1862

Elementalist Lightning Whip Results
3.3k attack Exotic weapon : 1612, 1518, 1614, 1598, 1590

Not only that the desired crowd control you’re looking for in the ability requires a charge time. Not saying guardian or elementalists need a nerf, but their damage abilities are far outperforming a burst ability, so what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me.

Edit:
Warrior Staggering Blow
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon: 1351 1528 1378 1500 1576

Nice job… except that you cannot crit the dummies as they’re structures. You also cannot disable them.

Means that your supposed damage isn’t taking into account Unsuspecting Foe or Merciless Hammer at all.

Olba.5376:

Kai.9182:

coglin.1867:

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

Just did a test just then. Lvl 80 Warrior, lvl 80 Guardian and lvl 80 elementalist. All with 3.3k attack on LA training dummies.

Warrior Earthshaker results
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon :1349, 1428, 1534, 1467, 1402

Guardian Mighty Blow results
3.3k attack Ascended Weapon: 1831, 1903, 1874, 1827, 2000
3.25k attack Exotic Weapon : 1720, 1888, 1774, 1702, 1862

Elementalist Lightning Whip Results
3.3k attack Exotic weapon : 1612, 1518, 1614, 1598, 1590

Not only that the desired crowd control you’re looking for in the ability requires a charge time. Not saying guardian or elementalists need a nerf, but their damage abilities are far outperforming a burst ability, so what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me.

Edit:
Warrior Staggering Blow
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon: 1351 1528 1378 1500 1576

Nice job... *except that you cannot crit the dummies as they’re structures*. You also cannot disable them.

Means that your supposed damage isn’t taking into account Unsuspecting Foe or Merciless Hammer *at all*.

I don’t think he took into consideration on the other class’ weapon bonus traits either so this test is unbiased if he is just checking base damage.

This test would, however reveal that the damage is probably where it should be and it is the damage bonus for merciless hammer and UF that is giving hammer that edge.

If that is the case, adjust those traits and then call it a day. Merge UF and Merciless Hammer and place it in Arms in the master tier.

Merciless Foe Hammer - Gain 25% crit and damage bonus vs disabled opponents (stun, daze, knockdown, and knockback) with your hammer attacks.

JonPeters.5630:

Hammer
We are taking damage away from the hammer skills that do CC, because we don’t think it is ok for skills to do both of these things. I see a lot of comparison with Greatsword damage, but the Greatsword has no interrupts and a single cripple on the Bladetrail. We left the skills that do not do hard control alone such as Fierce Blow and Hammer Shock, as we are ok with those skills hitting hard because they do not actually disable. We also left Backbreaker alone because it has a long cast time and a long cooldown. The standard hammer build is still going to be very strong after this change, but it will open up options for mace to make a comeback as the control weapon.

A few problems with this:

1. The Hammer CC already comes with a great tradeoff in dmg.
   The comparison with Greatsword is justified, since it illustrates what a dmg build without any CCs does in damage in comparison. In numbers a full Zerker GS build does about 5x more dps.
   Isn’t this enough of a gap to justify the CC on the Hammer? Especially since all of it’s control abilities are easily countered by stability!?
   IMHO the Hammer damage right now is appropriate for a big two handed weapon.
   And honestly it is nothing short of ridiculous to give earthshaker an animation that leaves a crater(!!) and not have it cause a ton of serious damage. Cutting off 20% of that is just sad.
2. Fierce Blow and Hammer Shock do not hit hard.
   If you really want to follow through with the massive 20 and 23% damage cuts to the control skills, it is not enough to just leave the aforementioned skills as they were. Give both these skills (or the first two hits of the auto attack chain) a damage boost and you have your separation of control and damage. Especially the dmg on Hammer Shock does not match it’s animation. It feels like hitting air with a rubber Hammer which is pretty frustrating.
3. None of this “opens up options for mace to make a comeback as the control weapon”.
   With the same update you are making the maces best CC asset easier to counter. By a lot. This does not make sense. At all.
4. This nerf is completely uncalled for.
   The community has been complaining about perma stealth thieves, the ridiculousness that is the perplexity rune, the possibility to stack up immobilize to 20seconds and other things that really stifle player vs. player combat and you give us a complete crackdown on the control warrior while giving thieves a 33% initiative boost and not adressing the other two problems at all.

Miko.5726:

coglin.1867:

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

Try to land a hit on a skilled Mesmer, Engineer or Ranger without a cc and damage weapon. Otherwise you have NO pressure on your opponent. Warrior have no port, no stealth and other gimmik “op” utilities. Only the Hambow-Build is atm viable in t or spvp and this will be nerfed over the top. What comes after that? Quo vadis Warrior?

All the other classes has too much kiting ability to dodge from us, try using a warrior and hit them with your skills when they are doing a good rotation of blind hide and dodge with vigor on, you literally will not hit them if you are somehow not a very talented player, what I meant is literally 0 hit. If we lose our control ability, that leaves us like a dummy target that can barely hit you.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Olba.5376:

Kai.9182:

coglin.1867:

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

Just did a test just then. Lvl 80 Warrior, lvl 80 Guardian and lvl 80 elementalist. All with 3.3k attack on LA training dummies.

Warrior Earthshaker results
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon :1349, 1428, 1534, 1467, 1402

Guardian Mighty Blow results
3.3k attack Ascended Weapon: 1831, 1903, 1874, 1827, 2000
3.25k attack Exotic Weapon : 1720, 1888, 1774, 1702, 1862

Elementalist Lightning Whip Results
3.3k attack Exotic weapon : 1612, 1518, 1614, 1598, 1590

Not only that the desired crowd control you’re looking for in the ability requires a charge time. Not saying guardian or elementalists need a nerf, but their damage abilities are far outperforming a burst ability, so what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me.

Edit:
Warrior Staggering Blow
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon: 1351 1528 1378 1500 1576

Nice job… except that you cannot crit the dummies as they’re structures. You also cannot disable them.

Means that your supposed damage isn’t taking into account Unsuspecting Foe or Merciless Hammer at all.

I don’t think he took into consideration on the other class’ weapon bonus traits either so this test is unbiased if he is just checking base damage.

This test would, however reveal that the damage is probably where it should be and it is the damage bonus for merciless hammer and UF that is giving hammer that edge.

If that is the case, adjust those traits and then call it a day. Merge UF and Merciless Hammer and place it in Arms in the master tier.

Merciless Foe Hammer – Gain 25% crit and damage bonus vs disabled opponents (stun, daze, knockdown, and knockback) with your hammer attacks.

He also made a completely irrelevant post with this one. What part of Damage+ Hard CC = Bad confuses this guy?

Warrior Earthshaker results
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon :1349, 1428, 1534, 1467, 1402 and does up to a 2s stun

Guardian Mighty Blow results
3.25k attack Exotic Weapon : 1720, 1888, 1774, 1702, 1862 has zero CC of any kind

Elementalist Lightning Whip Results
3.3k attack Exotic weapon : 1612, 1518, 1614, 1598, 1590 Again no CC of any kind

So thank you for solidly making my point. Your showing they all have equal damage except warrior also has the additional hard CC and the others do not. Wake up and smell the OP my friend.

I would request Anet show us the predetermined fixes to the community and get a weighted approach to their changes. This community is full of great knowledgeable and unbiased players willing to accept a balance patch than a nerf patch within reason. We have too many veteran warriors, theorycrafters and mathematicians that can crunch numbers and give us some raw data before we take any knee-jerk actions.

I will not discuss, but i think the real goal about Combustive Shot is:
1 – Decrease raw damage by reducing number of pulses.
2 – Decrease burn application rate by increasing time between pulses.
3 – Decrease adrenaline gain by reducing number of hits.
4 – Decrease area of effect by scaling radius with adrenaline level.

I think this is very hard nerf. The skill (only combo filed of warrior) will stay near of useless

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Olba.5376:

Kai.9182:

coglin.1867:

Kai.9182:

The hammer nerfs are just for spvp right? Already a terrible weapon in pve so that didn’t matter.
Talk about a massive nerf to organized wvw groups though. People are just gonna blob more now.

Why? what makes the warrior profession so special that it deserves to do as much damage on its CC weapons skills as other professions do on their damage weapon skills?

Just did a test just then. Lvl 80 Warrior, lvl 80 Guardian and lvl 80 elementalist. All with 3.3k attack on LA training dummies.

Warrior Earthshaker results
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon :1349, 1428, 1534, 1467, 1402

Guardian Mighty Blow results
3.3k attack Ascended Weapon: 1831, 1903, 1874, 1827, 2000
3.25k attack Exotic Weapon : 1720, 1888, 1774, 1702, 1862

Elementalist Lightning Whip Results
3.3k attack Exotic weapon : 1612, 1518, 1614, 1598, 1590

Not only that the desired crowd control you’re looking for in the ability requires a charge time. Not saying guardian or elementalists need a nerf, but their damage abilities are far outperforming a burst ability, so what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me.

Edit:
Warrior Staggering Blow
3.3k attack Exotic Weapon: 1351 1528 1378 1500 1576

Nice job… except that you cannot crit the dummies as they’re structures. You also cannot disable them.

Means that your supposed damage isn’t taking into account Unsuspecting Foe or Merciless Hammer at all.

I don’t think he took into consideration on the other class’ weapon bonus traits either so this test is unbiased if he is just checking base damage.

This test would, however reveal that the damage is probably where it should be and it is the damage bonus for merciless hammer and UF that is giving hammer that edge.

If that is the case, adjust those traits and then call it a day. Merge UF and Merciless Hammer and place it in Arms in the master tier.

Merciless Foe Hammer – Gain 25% crit and damage bonus vs disabled opponents (stun, daze, knockdown, and knockback) with your hammer attacks.

UF only works off of stuns, though.

JonPeters.5630:

Here are my comments on what we have seen discussed so far with the warrior changes.

Thrill of the Kill
I’ve heard some concerns about this being permanent max adrenaline in WvW zerg fights. We understand that, but given the fact that this trait competes with Warrior’s Sprint, Vigorous Focus, Signet Mastery, and Inspiring Shouts, we feel like players that take Thirll of the Kill we be giving up a sufficient amount of effectiveness to counter this. There are so many other reliable ways to gain adrenaline as is that I can’t imagine this tipping the scales as much as one of the other adept traits in this line.

Longbow
A lot of thought went into the change to combustive shot. This skill was simply too effective at renewing itself. One of the drawbacks of the burst skills needs to be losing your adrenaline, but this skill was easily able to restore all of the adrenaline it lost. Rather than reduce the burn duration we reduced the # of attacks this skill creates because we felt it made it more counterable in PvP and less reliable in PvE as an adrenaline builder.

I’m sorry Jon, but you have just contradicted yourself here with the proposed changes to the Longbow burst Combustive shot. First you are saying with the proposed Thrill of the Kill change that quote “There are so many other reliable ways to gain adrenaline as is.”
Then on the topic of Longbow Combustive Shot, you talk about how it feels that it restores all of your adrenaline lost too easily. So now its both ok and not ok to get your adrenaline back quickly? I am now very confused here.
Longbow Combustive Shot has already been downgraded by having its level 1 and 2 adrenaline attacks a smaller radius. The skill already pulses once every 2 seconds. Meanwhile other aoe fields pulse every second such as Necromancer wells, or every 0.6 seconds in the case of the Ranger’s Longbow #5 barrage attack.
If the core reason of concern is not in the damage but of the adrenaline refilling itself fast, then perhaps there is a much easier solution to this. Make the adrenaline gains from Combustive Shot be exactly the same as the Sword Burst skill Flurry. The hits from Flurry do not generate adrenaline. So why not apply the exact same to Combustive shot?

Fallout.1798:

Longbow Combustive Shot has already been downgraded by having its level 1 and 2 adrenaline attacks a smaller radius. The skill already pulses once every 2 seconds. Meanwhile other aoe fields pulse every second such as Necromancer wells, or every 0.6 seconds in the case of the Ranger’s Longbow #5 barrage attack.
If the core reason of concern is not in the damage but of the adrenaline refilling itself fast, then perhaps there is a much easier solution to this. Make the adrenaline gains from Combustive Shot be exactly the same as the Sword Burst skill Flurry. The hits from Flurry do not generate adrenaline. So why not apply the exact same to Combustive shot?

Completely agree. I’m confused as to the damage nerf when the stated purpose was an adrenaline nerf.

I would much rather see the same theory as flurry added to combustive shot, and simply remove adrenaline generation from the ability completely. Compare the raw damage to any other burst skill though, and CS is now woeful.