Guild Wars 2

Anet has prided themselves on creating a unique style for every weapon in the game.

When comparing the warrior rifle to the ranger longbow, these two weapons have an incredible amount of overlap unseen by any two weapon sets in the game. The difference is that the ranger longbow is flat out superior.

1.) Longbow’s base range is 1500 over the rifle. Arrows also arc while bullets travel in a straight path and end at their max range. Arrows have the ability to surpass their range when fired from a vertical advantage to reach almost 2000m. Both weapons can be traited to pierce and bleed on crit.

2.) Volley vs. Rapid Fire – Rapid fire not only deals more damage but also applies vulnerability to the target. The longbow effectively combines brutal shot and volley into one superior skill that deals more damage, applies damage and an effect, and fires faster than the rifle.

3.) Crippling Shot vs. Hunter’s Shot – Hunter’s shot used to be a mirror of crippling shot but now applies stealth and hides the ranger.

4.) Point Blank Shot vs. Rifle Butt – Same premise with rifle butt dealing less damage, knocking back less, and also having probably the shortest range out of any melee skill in the game when compared to point-blank shot’s 900m effectiveness.

5.) Barrage vs. Killshot – This is where the skills deviate for once. Both skills are good, with killshot being overly predictable and even after a long wind-up the bullet flies incredible slow in comparison to ranger arrows. Killshot will still miss a strafing target.

As you can see above the overlap between the longbow on ranger and the warrior rifle is pretty apparent – with the rifle just plain being pathetic in comparison to a ranger longbow.

These two weapon sets are so close in skill functionality that in order to fix rifle, the rifle must completely change and become its own weapon. The warrior rifle should not directly compete with the ranger longbow. As it stands, 75% of the rifle skills are being overshadowed by stronger versions on the ranger weapon.

The rifle on warrior should offer something unique to the warrior that deviates from any other weapon set in the game, just how no two weapon sets from different classes are alike. By using rifle on a warrior, you are essentially becoming a poor man’s ranger.

This has to change. It’s had to change for a long time. I was hoping HoT would reveal this changes and with the livestream it’s been sorely disappointing.

Please do something about this.

Here are my suggestions to maybe making rifle better.
Fierce Shot
Reduce casting to .5 seconds

Aimed Shot
hhmm not sure

Volley
Daze for 1 second on the final shot.

Brutal Shot
add 8 seconds of weakness or 8 seconds of slow

Rifle Butt
Swing the rifle with a range of 150 and a wider angle or make it shotgun like fire with a range of 300 up to 3 targets on both

Kill Shot
reduce casting to 1 seconds

I think I made a comparison between these two classes and weapons a while back, same conclusions.

Thing is though, it will become worse after the patch the way it looks right nwo.

Gee, a class called Ranger has superior ranged weapon options? Who would have figured..

roamzero.9486:

Gee, a class called Ranger has superior ranged weapon options? Who would have figured..

What an ignorant comment.

lordhelmos.7623:

By using rifle on a warrior, you are essentially becoming a poor man’s ranger.

By using a melee weapon on ranger you are essentially becoming a poor mans warrior, so that part balances out at least.

While I dont disagree with any of your points really, the only bad thing IMO is the range of the rifle. It should be extended to 1500 when you take the rifle trait. That combined with piercing give it a definitive purpose against groups. It cant bomb like the ranged magic classes, but it would be able to match the ranger in “precision” and run in the supportive backline.

Dawdler.8521:

By using a melee weapon on ranger you are essentially becoming a poor mans warrior, so that part balances out at least.

You are kidding I hope.

Dawdler.8521:

By using a melee weapon on ranger you are essentially becoming a poor mans warrior, so that part balances out at least.

Want to duel my 2x melee ranger vs your warrior?

This isn’t an in depth analysis on Rifle. It’s a short and incomplete comparison to Rangers Longbow that didn’t really accomplish anything except add more whine.

I would’ve brought some cheese had I known before hand.

Ghotistyx.6942:

This isn’t an in depth analysis on Rifle. It’s a short and incomplete comparison to Rangers Longbow that didn’t really accomplish anything except add more whine.

I would’ve brought some cheese had I known before hand.

I’d like to see what your “complete analysis” looks like. It’s easy to come in here and bash my thread. Can you back up what your talking about?

Why not compare your LB to your Rifle? Your LB is clearly a way better weapon than your rifle AND ranger’s LB, with better utility, better AOE, and better PVP usage.

Because it’s about the much needed buff on rifle, not how good LB is. Why even have a weapon that’s completely pointless in all game modes.

Kagamiku.9731:

Because it’s about the much needed buff on rifle, not how good LB is. Why even have a weapon that’s completely pointless in all game modes.

This is why you really should compare your Rifle to your own LB instead of using 2 different classes with different access of traits and dps modifier.

Because our rifle and LB use completely different utilities. Rifle and ranger LB are similar.

lordhelmos.7623:

I’d like to see what your “complete analysis” looks like. It’s easy to come in here and bash my thread. Can you back up what your talking about?

I am in no way required to provide my own analysis. Of course it’s easy to come in and say your thread does not accomplish what you stated in the title. This is not my problem however, it’s yours. It’s up to you to either actually do an in depth analysis, or to change the title of the thread to more accurately represent what it accomplishes. Currently it’s a complaint with no significant substance and a comparison to something not warrior related.

Kagamiku.9731:

Because our rifle and LB use completely different utilities. Rifle and ranger LB are similar.

To all honesty, if rifle does similar damage to “RANGER’s” LB, it wouldn’t be fair wouldn’kitten Just like if ranger’s GS does higher damage than Warrior’s melee option, people will go into an outrage. But if Rifle does slightly higher damage than Warrior’s LB, it might actually be fair.

I already did a test a to Rifle + LB damage comparison with normal rotation.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Is-Longbow-really-better-than-Rifle-PvE/first#post5124867

It’s not about higher damage, it’s about worthless utility skills. Virtually every skill on rifle is either easily dodged or lacks a purpose. I mean, compare rifle butt with point blank shot. Two skills on the same CD that serve the same purpose, except one if vastly better than the other. The rifle skill volley is similar to rapid fire, except it has shorter range and fires much slower. The fact that it deals less damage just adds to the inferiority of it.

Kagamiku.9731:

It’s not about higher damage, it’s about worthless utility skills. Virtually every skill on rifle is either easily dodged or lacks a purpose. I mean, compare rifle butt with point blank shot. Two skills on the same CD that serve the same purpose, except one if vastly better than the other. The rifle skill volley is similar to rapid fire, except it has shorter range and fires much slower. The fact that it deals less damage just adds to the inferiority of it.

Someone gets it. My whole point was to show how similar those two weapons are and THEY SHOULD NOT BE. Rifle needs to be something else. It needs a complete revamp so its not even comparible to the ranger LB at all. It should be completely different.

lordhelmos.7623:

Kagamiku.9731:

It’s not about higher damage, it’s about worthless utility skills. Virtually every skill on rifle is either easily dodged or lacks a purpose. I mean, compare rifle butt with point blank shot. Two skills on the same CD that serve the same purpose, except one if vastly better than the other. The rifle skill volley is similar to rapid fire, except it has shorter range and fires much slower. The fact that it deals less damage just adds to the inferiority of it.

Someone gets it. My whole point was to show how similar those two weapons are and THEY SHOULD NOT BE. Rifle needs to be something else. It needs a complete revamp so its not even comparible to the ranger LB at all. It should be completely different.

I do agree with this partially, though one of the rifle’s skills feels very unique and fun to me, and that’s killshot.

The problem is that they made the rest of the weapon so similar to Ranger’s longbow, yet weaker in every way, that you can only conclude that using it does in fact make you a poor man’s ranger.

I think the comparison between longbow ranger and rifle warrior is perfectly fine. People coming in here saying it isn’t yet provide zero reason why should just go back to the ranger forum really.

And comparing Rifle to warrior longbow shows even more that rifle needs help. Longbow is not really used as a ranged weapon when literally 4 out of it’s six skills are best used in melee range. People may not like it, but longbow does have a distinct feel and use in more then 1 gamemodes.

Buffing the longbow to 1200 range while doing nothing for rifle to me shows a complete lack of understanding of what’s going on with warrior right now.

Cygnus.6903:

lordhelmos.7623:

Kagamiku.9731:

It’s not about higher damage, it’s about worthless utility skills. Virtually every skill on rifle is either easily dodged or lacks a purpose. I mean, compare rifle butt with point blank shot. Two skills on the same CD that serve the same purpose, except one if vastly better than the other. The rifle skill volley is similar to rapid fire, except it has shorter range and fires much slower. The fact that it deals less damage just adds to the inferiority of it.

Someone gets it. My whole point was to show how similar those two weapons are and THEY SHOULD NOT BE. Rifle needs to be something else. It needs a complete revamp so its not even comparible to the ranger LB at all. It should be completely different.

I do agree with this partially, though one of the rifle’s skills feels very unique and fun to me, and that’s killshot.

The problem is that they made the rest of the weapon so similar to Ranger’s longbow, yet weaker in every way, that you can only conclude that using it does in fact make you a poor man’s ranger.

I think the comparison between longbow ranger and rifle warrior is perfectly fine. People coming in here saying it isn’t yet provide zero reason why should just go back to the ranger forum really.

And comparing Rifle to warrior longbow shows even more that rifle needs help. Longbow is not really used as a ranged weapon when literally 4 out of it’s six skills are best used in melee range. People may not like it, but longbow does have a distinct feel and use in more then 1 gamemodes.

Buffing the longbow to 1200 range while doing nothing for rifle to me shows a complete lack of understanding of what’s going on with warrior right now.

Technically is 1400~1500 range post patch for Warrior’s LB.
People been lying about the 2000 range of ranger (it’s only about 1800 and less), it’s time to face the truth that Warrior’s LB hits further than tool tip as well.

Btw, LB F1, 3, 4 , 5 all can be casted effectively at 1200 ranger, just that you wouldn’t gain might stack if you don’t blast the field near you, that’s why people choose to use it at close range. It is still a range weapon regardless.

Toxsa.2701:

Btw, LB F1, 3, 4 , 5 all can be casted effectively at 1200 ranger, just that you wouldn’t gain might stack if you don’t blast the field near you, that’s why people choose to use it at close range. It is still a range weapon regardless.

It would also be impossible to hit anyone with it from a distance because the LB skills have some of the slowest moving projectile in the game. LB f1 and 3 are simply not viable for anything except close range. Same goes for LB 2 because it deals far more damage in melee range. LB 4 is fast, but it’s a weak damage blind. Much better to use against a melee’s burst skill or one of their disables. There are few ranged skills you could counter with smoldering arrow, because they’d have used the skill before smoldering arrow reaches the target. LB 5 has a rather long cast time, and between its charge and the distance between you and who you’re trying to hit… It will fail against any half decent player. Thus every skill on LB is better in melee range. And more than half of them are borderline unusable in range.

So while they can be cast, it’s far from effective. Just imagine a warrior shooting his LB f1 skill at 1200 range; the person you’re playing against could get up, take a kitten, and come back before it lands.

roamzero.9486:

Gee, a class called Ranger has superior ranged weapon options? Who would have figured..

Another clueless person who doesn’t know what Ranger means. If you’re going to act all snarky to the people in this thread, at least know what you’re talking about.

You’re far from the first person to put the War Rifle alongside the Ranger LB and realize they’re basically “twins” just like Arnold and Danny

Toxsa.2701:

Btw, LB F1, 3, 4 , 5 all can be casted effectively at 1200 ranger, just that you wouldn’t gain might stack if you don’t blast the field near you, that’s why people choose to use it at close range. It is still a range weapon regardless.

Yeah I don’t agree with the ‘effectively’ part. F1 and 3 are best combined in melee to stack might and keep your (melee) opponent under pressure. 4 was not a skill i was referring to. 5 is only going to hit something that’s paying attention to something else, and even then the telegraphing is awful.
Longbow 2 is best used in melee as you can hit all three arrows that way.

Btw, I don’t and didn’t deny that longbow is a ranged weapon. It’s just not used that way.

Cygnus.6903:

It’s just not used that way.

Gotta agree with you here. Longbow has a 1200 range, but probably 90% of my PvP usage is at or below, range 600. At 1200, you only hit with 1 of your 3 fire fans, arching shot has a long travel time and can easily be dodged, and auto-attack will missing moving targets.

I’m NOT saying warrior bow is bad. In fact it’s awesome. It just drastically loses effectiveness the further out you get.

It’s rather ‘meh’ in WvW too. You’re basically a kitten version of a caster, and would be better off rolling a staff ele.

Honestly, I find skills 3-4-5 on Rifle to be fairly decent. Volley hits like a truck, Brutal Shot is a bit boring but extra damage is extra damage. It’s skills 1 and 2 that are terrible. The damage on the AA is pathetic and uninspired (maybe some additional bonus damage if they have vulnerability?) and who really needs a cripple on a ranged weapon. Something more skillful like a daze that lasts longer if you interrupt them would make it much more interesting.

They could just buff it somewhat. Do the same thing they did with rapid fire, place the vuln stacks on volley. Then change the vulnerability placing skill into a daze or something

Nerfed Plink

I would love to see the Rifle become more viable, at least for PvE. There’s always a “melee premium” in GW2 which rewards the risk of using melee weapons versus ranged, but in the case of the rifle, it just doesn’t stand up at all.

Creating a purpose-built “Sniper Warrior”, taking him to lvl 80 and seeing how miserable his performance is with the rifle, even with a full glass cannon build and gear, proved to me beyond all doubt that Rifle is currently at best a secondary weapon useful mostly for plinking at world bosses.

Fixing that would be a welcome change indeed!

the scaling on the auto attack needs to be much better, but what the rifle really needs is a complete rework. killshot is the only good skill it has. volley seems good, but that’s only because you have tears clouding your vision because those you cant help but cry when you auto attack.

it needs more damage and ideally more utility, because currently there is no point to rifle apart from killshot.