Guild Wars 2

http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/c/2645773

Hi there.

I’ve been asked a lot of questions as to how to deal with Thief’s (and Mesmers).

This video is a quick showing of how to fight a thief in a 1v1 scenario.

The beginning contains the full footage, second half is a play by play on what’s going on and my own though process.

Please note!
Weapon choices don’t matter as much as the critical thinking involved. There are a number of builds that can beat thief’s, but thinking through the situation is the best way to do it!

I hope this helps someone out there

I haven’t seen it, but another tip is to blind skullcrack inside shadow refuge. You have a pretty good chance to hitting the thief if you are somewhat good at guessing. If it hits (adrenaline drains) you can immediatly follow up with 100b/ other weapon skills.

peter.9024:

I haven’t seen it, but another tip is to blind skullcrack inside shadow refuge. You have a pretty good chance to hitting the thief if you are somewhat good at guessing. If it hits (adrenaline drains) you can immediatly follow up with 100b/ other weapon skills.

Not sure. You might land it, but the Thief will still be stealthed for the full duration of SR and he will also heal like crazy if he’s specced into SA, so you won’t be able to kill him in those 3+ seconds.

I find that it’s better to wiggle around and try to facetank a Backstab for reduced damage. Either that or just Leap away and keep running until the stealth comes off, sometimes it works.

YuiRS.8129:

peter.9024:

I haven’t seen it, but another tip is to blind skullcrack inside shadow refuge. You have a pretty good chance to hitting the thief if you are somewhat good at guessing. If it hits (adrenaline drains) you can immediatly follow up with 100b/ other weapon skills.

Not sure. You might land it, but the Thief will still be stealthed for the full duration of SR and he will also heal like crazy if he’s specced into SA, so you won’t be able to kill him in those 3+ seconds.

I find that it’s better to wiggle around and try to facetank a Backstab for reduced damage. Either that or just Leap away and keep running until the stealth comes off, sometimes it works.

Well if you land skull crack and they don’t stun break they’ll eat 2-3k (skull crack) + 12-15k (100b damage). Most thiefs will down and you can always tell if a thief is downed because your attack animation keeps continuing on the same spot.

If he stun breaks it’s also good because they wasted 2 utilities (stun break + shadow refuge) and potentially get revealed if they run out of the refuge.

So it’s not a bad idea of at least trying because skull crack will come off CD most of the time before the thief reveals himself again.

TBH I don’t recommend wasting your skull crack CD for a chance to hit a most likely evading thief inside their Refuge. Better to just spam damage and have it when you need it right afterwards.

I love it when thieves SR. My bow makes me happy in those circumstances. “Oh no, he just popped stealth… /AoE the whole circle. Oh look, he’s down.” It’s even funnier when I get my 4 second immobilize off right as the thief pops it.

I use Earthshaker (even with 1 adrenaline bar, good damage) when I see a shadow refuge.
If used with more than 1 adr bar, Fierce Blow and/or Staggering Blow to knockback the thief out of SR.

Sometimes I use Earthshaker in my position when I feel incoming stealth thief burst.

Croustibat.7035:

I use Earthshaker (even with 1 adrenaline bar, good damage) when I see a shadow refuge.
If used with more than 1 adr bar, Fierce Blow and/or Staggering Blow to knockback the thief out of SR.

Sometimes I use Earthshaker in my position when I feel incoming stealth thief burst.

Thats good, staggering blow has a pretty good chance to push them out of it.

My tactics against Thieves:
- AoE
- CC or Imobilize
- Counter with direct or condition burst

Defektive, what amulet/gem are you using in that video?

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Defektive, what amulet/gem are you using in that video?

Trade secret.

Aw c’mon, not asking for the whole build =)

Stomp is great for knocking thieves out of refuge. it’s a long cooldown for sure but if you pull it off the thief is in a VERY bad spot.

Terrible thief i dont know what you try to demostrate playing a terrible thief, a good one would 2-3 shot you really, he was using like a troll spec that wasnt doing anything it was like leting you win all the time, trust me a good thief would obliterrated you and your video would be like 5 seconds long, maybe another 5 showing your tears too so put it 10.

Fenrir.5493:

Terrible thief i dont know what you try to demostrate playing a terrible thief, a good one would 2-3 shot you really, he was using like a troll spec that wasnt doing anything it was like leting you win all the time, trust me a good thief would obliterrated you and your video would be like 5 seconds long, maybe another 5 showing your tears too so put it 10.

That’s Steb, one of the best tPvP Thiefs NA.

But it’s ok, I know you get your jollys off trolling.

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

Terrible thief i dont know what you try to demostrate playing a terrible thief, a good one would 2-3 shot you really, he was using like a troll spec that wasnt doing anything it was like leting you win all the time, trust me a good thief would obliterrated you and your video would be like 5 seconds long, maybe another 5 showing your tears too so put it 10.

That’s Steb, one of the best tPvP Thiefs NA.

But it’s ok, I know you get your jollys off trolling.

Well i have seen a lot better thiefs so compared to what im talking about he sucks.

Fenrir.5493:

Defektive.7283:

Fenrir.5493:

Terrible thief i dont know what you try to demostrate playing a terrible thief, a good one would 2-3 shot you really, he was using like a troll spec that wasnt doing anything it was like leting you win all the time, trust me a good thief would obliterrated you and your video would be like 5 seconds long, maybe another 5 showing your tears too so put it 10.

That’s Steb, one of the best tPvP Thiefs NA.

But it’s ok, I know you get your jollys off trolling.

Well i have seen a lot better thiefs so compared to what im talking about he sucks.

Then you should inform them to start playing tPvP so there’s more competition.

Instead of bashing threads for no apparent reason.

FYI: Right now the top NA thiefs are: Jumper, Caed, Steb, Luci, Cruuk.

Defektive.7283:

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Defektive, what amulet/gem are you using in that video?

Trade secret.

You really want it kept a secret?

Veritas.6071:

Defektive.7283:

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Defektive, what amulet/gem are you using in that video?

Trade secret.

You really want it kept a secret?

tbh I don’t care, it’s just I’d rather not spell it out to everyone. There’s so many different ways to play it, different weapons that will work with it (CC Warrior, Mace Shield the only requirement). Prefer people figure out their own way that fits them, than give them a layout and say ‘here play this’.

if that makes sense? It’s not be an kitten .

Defektive.7283:

Veritas.6071:

Defektive.7283:

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Defektive, what amulet/gem are you using in that video?

Trade secret.

You really want it kept a secret?

tbh I don’t care, it’s just I’d rather not spell it out to everyone. There’s so many different ways to play it, different weapons that will work with it (CC Warrior, Mace Shield the only requirement). Prefer people figure out their own way that fits them, than give them a layout and say ‘here play this’.

if that makes sense? It’s not be an kitten .

I understand that.

Fenrir.5493:

maybe you should be doing more other kinds of pvp instead on just team matches where your allies are just babysitting you, really you are gimping them for using a warrior.

You’ve a real foul attitude.

EDIT – Jesus, I lost track of my tabs. This was interesting as well, but this post, if anyone read, was meant for the other thread.

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Defektive, what amulet/gem are you using in that video?

Soldier Amulet with Berserker Jewel.

I know bc my HP is exactly the same as his and that’s what I run.

Velron.3729:

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Defektive, what amulet/gem are you using in that video?

Soldier Amulet with Berserker Jewel.

I know bc my HP is exactly the same as his and that’s what I run.

Quiet you

Fenrir.5493:

Terrible thief i dont know what you try to demostrate playing a terrible thief, a good one would 2-3 shot you really, he was using like a troll spec that wasnt doing anything it was like leting you win all the time, trust me a good thief would obliterrated you and your video would be like 5 seconds long, maybe another 5 showing your tears too so put it 10.

You’re plain wrong man. As usual you’re just trying to be an overly negative jerk.

This build has somewhere in the 3200 armor range with the 24.5k health. You aren’t 2-3 shotting that. lol

Defektive, honestly, how are Warrior’s now?

Like for example, in my experience, in MMO’s a bad stigma tends to become permanent.
So if a bad class is bad for long enough (like us Warriors) then we are doomed to be generally viewed as bad by the community as a whole even when we aren’t, if you get what I mean.

Not saying that Warriors are bad right now, but after being weak for so long, I feel it’s going to be hard to shake off this bad vibe of the class.

Like right now, people must be losing matches, or 1v1’s and blame it on the class, rather than think what they could improve etc.

And kudos, watched your Thief 1v1 video, you make it look so easy man ^.^

You’re running an OH axe in this video, is this something your switched in just to duel Steb? I’m still having a hard time taking OH axe seriously even after the damage buff, especially since the multi hit will just completely kill you in any teamfight with a guardian present.

Good video otherwise though! Although I don’t think Steb was expecting such a fight out of you making mistakes such as switching to shortbow leaving him blindless and defenseless against your near instant cast stuns lmao.

A couple things here
1. Good players will always dodge the shield stun and the mace stun they have very obvious animations and they are very easy to predict
2. Try dueling a sword pistol thief with that build and may god have mercy on your soul.

peter.9024:

I haven’t seen it, but another tip is to blind skullcrack inside shadow refuge. You have a pretty good chance to hitting the thief if you are somewhat good at guessing. If it hits (adrenaline drains) you can immediatly follow up with 100b/ other weapon skills.

Just use stomp on the SR and the thief and his fellas flies out of it and looses stealth.

Mjgander.1905:

Defektive, honestly, how are Warrior’s now?

Like for example, in my experience, in MMO’s a bad stigma tends to become permanent.
So if a bad class is bad for long enough (like us Warriors) then we are doomed to be generally viewed as bad by the community as a whole even when we aren’t, if you get what I mean.

Not saying that Warriors are bad right now, but after being weak for so long, I feel it’s going to be hard to shake off this bad vibe of the class.

Like right now, people must be losing matches, or 1v1’s and blame it on the class, rather than think what they could improve etc.

And kudos, watched your Thief 1v1 video, you make it look so easy man ^.^

Warriors now aren’t to bad now. Most people expect them to play like the other classes where you can have success by spamming your skills and not waiting for the correct timing windows to use them. Warriors how ever require you to constantly think and adapt to be successful. This why most of the community believes they are bad.

Jzaku.9765:

You’re running an OH axe in this video, is this something your switched in just to duel Steb? I’m still having a hard time taking OH axe seriously even after the damage buff, especially since the multi hit will just completely kill you in any teamfight with a guardian present.

Good video otherwise though! Although I don’t think Steb was expecting such a fight out of you making mistakes such as switching to shortbow leaving him blindless and defenseless against your near instant cast stuns lmao.

I was just experimenting w/ OH Axe. I usually bring OH Mace with me. The offensive weapon set matters less, GS would have had the same effect.

And ya, when they switch to SB in order to kite, thats the best time to become aggressive because they’ll have to waste initiative for evade frames. Which makes the transition back to DP or SP a little easier to deal with.

Derps.7421:

A couple things here
1. Good players will always dodge the shield stun and the mace stun they have very obvious animations and they are very easy to predict
2. Try dueling a sword pistol thief with that build and may god have mercy on your soul.

Good players will dodge the shield stun from characters whose animations are much larger (Norn, Human etc.) They are a lot easier to see.

However, if you play as an Asura, generally your animations are so small and so quick that most players – even the most experienced, won’t see them coming if done at the correct time. It also helps to count dodges.

S/P Thiefs are both easier and more annoying.

D/P Puts our more pressure, S/P has more teleports to be irritating. Generally the fights last longer are end in a stalemate due to their ability to disengage a fight rather easily.

My rule of thumb in tPvP when I see an S/P trying to lure me out and be an annoyance → Entertain them for a few seconds to force a teleport, walk away.

The class doesn’t do enough damage to kill a strong Spirit Ranger or Guardian in a timely fashion, so if you’re covering your points well with rotations, it shouldn’t be an issue. S/P is super susceptible to AoE, so if one gets on you – walk into the AoE Condi fest and they’ll have to leave or die.

They are more of a mosquito.

Mjgander.1905:

Defektive, honestly, how are Warrior’s now?

Like for example, in my experience, in MMO’s a bad stigma tends to become permanent.
So if a bad class is bad for long enough (like us Warriors) then we are doomed to be generally viewed as bad by the community as a whole even when we aren’t, if you get what I mean.

Not saying that Warriors are bad right now, but after being weak for so long, I feel it’s going to be hard to shake off this bad vibe of the class.

Like right now, people must be losing matches, or 1v1’s and blame it on the class, rather than think what they could improve etc.

And kudos, watched your Thief 1v1 video, you make it look so easy man ^.^

This is a question I struggle with.

I think if you were to simply JOIN a team, then Warriors are bad.

If you were to be the center of attention on a team – then Warriors are good.

The key differences is that your team knows where you lack, and has the communication to eliminate those weaknesses.

When I get on a target for my team, and I see stability go up (ugh) I immediately call it out so someone can strip it for me. Until it’s stripped, I switch targets until the original target has lost the boon.

This also is similar for most builds you’ll play, GS Zerker requires a alot of condi cleanse from teammates, Longbow requires teammates with more sustain who are in the fight, so the enemy can’t push your line.

Regarding the stigma. I think until people start seeing Warriors competing successfully in shoutcasted matches, where they are on a team defeating someone well known – until that moment people will look down on them.

After that moment, people will think twice. At that point it’s just a matter of time until it’s accepted. Will it happen right away? No. But with changes from the devs to make us readily available to a team as well as people interested in seeing it work – it’ll happen.

Any advice against s/d thieves? They are almost as annoying as the blind spamming d/p except they also steal your SOR and feel like way more of a threat to me. There’s also shadow return making it completely impossible to stun lock them.

Jzaku.9765:

Any advice against s/d thieves? They are almost as annoying as the blind spamming d/p except they also steal your SOR and feel like way more of a threat to me. There’s also shadow return making it completely impossible to stun lock them.

Need them to swap weapons before you try for a kill so they dont have their sword teleport skill. This will force a cooldown teleport. Rinse repeat, second time around you should be able to strangle them.

I don’t run with SOR simply because of what you just stated, and that boon stripping is everywhere.

Edit:
Also – drag them into an AoE fest, they can’t do much in there without dying themselves.

Defektive, you state that mace + shield is required for cc build, but is the block so much worth it that you couldn’t take up an offhand mace? Tremor has good range and is a 2 second knockdown instead of a short range 1 second stun. I don’t have access to my game right now to test it so was wondering what thoughts you had on it.

Defektive.7283:

FYI: Right now the top NA thiefs are: Jumper, Caed, Steb, Luci, Cruuk.

I randomly ended up in some duels with Caed in WvW last week as my server was facing Anvil Rock, and he played much tighter than the thief that you’re fighting in the vid.

He was running a zerk-heavy d/p spec, would usually start the fight with a very fast basilisk venom heartseeker through black powder to backstab, forcing you to burn your stability/stun break, then either shadowstep away to burn off your stability, or if it was down use repeated headshots combined with auto attack to keep you locked out of using your heal or skills.

Black powder is very dangerous for melee warriors as the blind pulse is faster than most of our attacks, so you could start an earthshaker and get blinded before you land it.

I try and make use of berserker stance when I’m facing a d/p thief so that I’m guaranteed 8 secs of not being affected by blind, always stay moving, and always keep auto attacking, even if you’re just hitting the air. If your auto attack goes to the next attack in the chain then you know where the thief is and can try and aoe the area or use some kind of cc attack.

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Defektive, you state that mace + shield is required for cc build, but is the block so much worth it that you couldn’t take up an offhand mace? Tremor has good range and is a 2 second knockdown instead of a short range 1 second stun. I don’t have access to my game right now to test it so was wondering what thoughts you had on it.

I find blocks to be really important when I’m waiting for CDs to come back up, and to stop certain combos to come out. I like Mace OH a lot and usually run it with Sword. So technically you can still get it.

Jakare.6807:

Defektive.7283:

FYI: Right now the top NA thiefs are: Jumper, Caed, Steb, Luci, Cruuk.

I randomly ended up in some duels with Caed in WvW last week as my server was facing Anvil Rock, and he played much tighter than the thief that you’re fighting in the vid.

He was running a zerk-heavy d/p spec, would usually start the fight with a very fast basilisk venom heartseeker through black powder to backstab, forcing you to burn your stability/stun break, then either shadowstep away to burn off your stability, or if it was down use repeated headshots combined with auto attack to keep you locked out of using your heal or skills.

Black powder is very dangerous for melee warriors as the blind pulse is faster than most of our attacks, so you could start an earthshaker and get blinded before you land it.

I try and make use of berserker stance when I’m facing a d/p thief so that I’m guaranteed 8 secs of not being affected by blind, always stay moving, and always keep auto attacking, even if you’re just hitting the air. If your auto attack goes to the next attack in the chain then you know where the thief is and can try and aoe the area or use some kind of cc attack.

Build I’m running Auto stabilities on first stun. If I miss the block on it that usually covers me.

The way you’re explaining the fight, sounds like you didnt apply any pressure back correctly and he got to have his way with you.

Also sounds like you were running Hammer, which no tPvP warrior does due to its speed and ease of dodging. Most good Thiefs (especially Caed) Will have their way with you. Just need to make the fight on your terms not theirs.

Defektive.7283:

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Defektive, you state that mace + shield is required for cc build, but is the block so much worth it that you couldn’t take up an offhand mace? Tremor has good range and is a 2 second knockdown instead of a short range 1 second stun. I don’t have access to my game right now to test it so was wondering what thoughts you had on it.

I find blocks to be really important when I’m waiting for CDs to come back up, and to stop certain combos to come out. I like Mace OH a lot and usually run it with Sword. So technically you can still get it.

Another thing worth noting is that you’re getting a 2 second stun out of the shield vs a 2 second knockdown.

This is important due to the Unsuspecting Foe trait that is the reason we’re able to have decent damage output.

I also find Shield Bash to be quicker to get off than Tremor.

Does sigil of paralyzation cause the stun from shield bash to round up to 2 seconds? Another thing I was taking into consideration, though, is that stunbreakers don’t always help you with knockdowns if used before the animation is finished.

Would like to see a 1v1 video vs S/D thieves, I think those are the ones that will give most people trouble more so than D/D specs.

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Does sigil of paralyzation cause the stun from shield bash to round up to 2 seconds? Another thing I was taking into consideration, though, is that stunbreakers don’t always help you with knockdowns if used before the animation is finished.

Yes, Sigil of Paralyzation adds 1 full second to all stuns; a second sigils will not help, so put just one.

Interesting, thanks.

killahmayne.9518:

Would like to see a 1v1 video vs S/D thieves, I think those are the ones that will give most people trouble more so than D/D specs.

S/D is fairly common.

The pressure is a lot less than D/P so if you’re tanky enough it actually isn’t that hard to just wait out the fight.

It’s important to fight ontop of the area they Sword teleported FROM. This is because when you get a stun or CC, they’ll teleport right back to the same spot.

It’s just a more annoying build is all.

0/15/30/0/15, Soldier’s Amulet I think is his build.
If you watch closely you can see.

Honestly, the best way to beat a thief is to out tank him, avoid him. Lure him into your team.

Its not worth taking the time to fight a thief like this. There is no way the thief could kill Defective if he has a sword main hand, Thieves like that cannot do enough direct damage to kill anything. He is more of a team utility thief. (He looked like Shortbow, D/P)

D/P thieves are good in WvWvW, however as long as you stay above 50% Health you can’t die to one.

Daecollo.9578:

0/15/30/0/15, Soldier’s Amulet is his build.
If you watch closely you can see.

Honestly, the best way to beat a thief is to out tank him, avoid him. Lure him into your team.

Its not worth taking the time to fight a thief like this.

About as wrong of a build as possible.

And it’s important to know how to 1v1 a thief in the event that you stop him from back capping and need to push him off the point.

Defektive.7283:

killahmayne.9518:

Would like to see a 1v1 video vs S/D thieves, I think those are the ones that will give most people trouble more so than D/D specs.

S/D is fairly common.

The pressure is a lot less than D/P so if you’re tanky enough it actually isn’t that hard to just wait out the fight.

It’s important to fight ontop of the area they Sword teleported FROM. This is because when you get a stun or CC, they’ll teleport right back to the same spot.

It’s just a more annoying build is all.

Just to add on to Defektive here, that is an excellent tactic especially after the stunbreak was removed from the sword shadow return. The return also no longer has a hidden infinite return range, so the thief will only port a maximum of 1200 towards the original location. A skull crack while fighting them on top of their return will force them to burn the utility shadowstep to survive.

Daecollo.9578:

0/15/30/0/15, Soldier’s Amulet I think is his build.
If you watch closely you can see.

Honestly, the best way to beat a thief is to out tank him, avoid him. Lure him into your team.

Its not worth taking the time to fight a thief like this. There is no way the thief could kill Defective if he has a sword main hand, Thieves like that cannot do enough direct damage to kill anything. He is more of a team utility thief. (He looked like Shortbow, D/P)

D/P thieves are good in WvWvW, however as long as you stay above 50% Health you can’t die to one.

why would anybody go 15 into arms and not use 10 trait points?

Defektive.7283:

Daecollo.9578:

0/15/30/0/15, Soldier’s Amulet is his build.
If you watch closely you can see.

Honestly, the best way to beat a thief is to out tank him, avoid him. Lure him into your team.

Its not worth taking the time to fight a thief like this.

About as wrong of a build as possible.

And it’s important to know how to 1v1 a thief in the event that you stop him from back capping and need to push him off the point.

I need to play serious SPvP some time.