Guild Wars 2

First time I let warrior get away from me…and it happened twice yesterday. They seemed to be almost immune to conditions.

Did warrior mobility get buffed in the last patch?

In WvW you can build for 98% reduction to cripple/chill/imob. So can eles and engis.

I think more warriors are running sword now that axe got hit with that Damage nerf..

Warriors got a much needed buff yes. They are far from “immune to conditions”.

That said, from your post history you seem to be a Thief player. If you’re playing a Thief and ANY other class outruns you you suck, plain and simple. Since the ele d/d nerf, no class comes close to the Thief’s mobility.

I know no one ever managed to get away from mine. Beat me? Sure, when they play better, but run away? No. Just no.

Well I wasn’t running D/P so I didn’t have a spammable shadowstep/gap closer. Either way kinda shocking cuz I do run 3 shadowsteps in my build as well as spammable cripple and 25% speed signet.

Excalibur.9748:

Well I wasn’t running D/P so I didn’t have a spammable shadowstep.

Doesn’t matter what you’re playing. You still have more mobility than anyone in the game.

What were you playing? MH sword? You have a teleport with an immobilize and no cooldown.

MH D? Then you were playing D/P. Were you playing D/D? Bad thief. No reason to play D/D when D/P is superior at roughly everything. Even so Heartseeker is a hell of a chaser.

What was in your offhand? Not a shortbow? Bad thief.

What were your utilities? Infiltrator’s signet? Shadowstep? Why not? If you were an evasion thief you should be using the former. If you weren’t you should be using the later. You should also be using 50% movement speed on stealth if you’re a stealth thief. No one else can get 50% MS.

Was your steal on cooldown? What about traits?

Etc.

I guess you get a pass if you blew all of your cooldowns on some other kill/fight, and he didn’t… At which point, I guess, if you have a lower mobility setup, he (or anyone else really) could get away…

I was running S/D and shortbow. Sword #2 is spammable yes, but to actually spam it would be counter intuitive since using shadow return would be counter productive.

Utilities infiltrator signet, signet of shadows, shadow refuge. Shadow steps might be on cooldown since I blew it to get to him in the first place, then he slipped from me. I was chasing the warriors (1 warrior each, 2 separate times iirc) with 3-4 other people who broke from the main zerg. Though I mean I was obviously the fastest and the other people who tried to chase the warriors had no chance at all.

Either I got totally outplayed or this is a new warrior build that is really good for running away.

Excalibur.9748:

I was running S/D and shortbow. Sword #2 is spammable yes, but to actually spam it would be counter intuitive since using shadow return would be counter productive.

Utilities infiltrator signet, signet of shadows, shadow refuge. Shadow steps might be on cooldown since I blew it to get to him in the first place, then he slipped from me. I was chasing the warriors with 3-4 other people who broke from the main zerg.

Then he shouldn’t have gotten away. You did something wrong, plain and simple. I don’t know what, I wasn’t there. Doubly so as a S/D (I run the same) as you can steal his swiftness.

And I’m assuming we’re talking about a decent distance by the way, cause if it’s like, 10 ft into the nearest castle then that’s not really “outrunning”, that’s just plain old not being made of glass.

Warriors are a bit better at running away now, but there’s no way they can simply outrun a thief.

Well how are they better at running away now? Previously only mesmer and thief could get away from me, but it seems warriors are getting there now.

There are quite a few options for getting Warriors to move quickly now. Signet of Rage, Warrior’s Sprint, GS, Sword, Warhorn, Dogged March + Melandru/Hoelbrak + Lemongrass. If you run up against a warrior running all of these, you can probably catch him, but you won’t hold onto him, and you’ve only got so many movement cooldowns.

Excalibur.9748:

Well how are they better at running away now? Previously only mesmer and thief could get away from me, but it seems warriors are getting there now.

How in the world can a mesmer get away from you short of portaling away?

They get decent condition cleansing through Cleansing Ire + Longbow (if he wasn’t running longbow, or throwing down longbow fire fields whenever he removed conditions, it wasn’t this).

Balanced stance got an additional swiftness on activation/Dolyak Signet became a stun breaker (which gives 180 passive toughness).

Sword became a viable (in fact arguably THE most viable) weapon. Sword being the second most mobile weapon a Warrior has (first being Greatsword).

They got a couple more options of Stunbreakers…

And that’s about it from what I can think of… I mean, they got better, but still nowhere near a Thief. They’re much better at catching people though. But that isn’t the case here. You’re complaining he ran away from you, not that he caught you. So… I don’t know.

Edit: oh yeah. +25% Ms buff in a trait (previously 10%) while holding melee weapons. Again, bit better.

I actually think there might be some Warrior builds that could outrun a thief, even though it would need a skilled warrior and smart terrain usage.
It would also depend on how much stability/condition removal the thief has and if you can manage to get out of combat for a short while to switch around some weapons/utilities.
But that warrior build would probably only shine in outrunning thieves and nothing else in wvw, so nobody specs it.

Ah ok, found this in June 25th patch notes. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2280967

Warrior’s Sprint: Increased the movement speed from 10% to 25%.

Interesting. Pretty substantial boost to warrior mobility. This actually makes sense now.

Don’t tell anyone I told you guys, but warrior can have insane mobility with GS + s/wh and bullcharge. Even winning a mobility of the old d/d ele before the nerf.

Actually Excalibur if a warrior has perma swiftness (which is really easy) than this buff to warriors sprint doesn’t really do anything. Since movement speed is capped at 33% (except for thief traited for stealth run) if you have swiftness on than this doesn’t change anything. However if you can’t keep up swiftness (or a thief steals it )than this does help out.

A thief complaining about warriors…

The other day an idiot was complaining about longbow warriors being anoying so they should be nerfed….

And other day another one was complaining that as an ele he was outrunned by a warrior…

The community is so accostumed to warriors beign free kills that when that premise is not granted they rage and come to the forums with this poor excuses.

I think this is one of the reasons that the devs dont improve warrior, imagine what would be the scenario of that, warrior not beign free kills and beign on par with classes like the OP thieves, jus imagine that, a whole bunch of cry and complaints in the forums.

Uther Deathhand.1570:

Actually Excalibur if a warrior has perma swiftness (which is really easy) than this buff to warriors sprint doesn’t really do anything. Since movement speed is capped at 33% (except for thief traited for stealth run) if you have swiftness on than this doesn’t change anything. However if you can’t keep up swiftness (or a thief steals it )than this does help out.

Yep it’s a big deal since the first thing I do after I catch up to the warrior is steal their boons.

Excalibur.9748:

Ah ok, found this in June 25th patch notes. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2280967

Warrior’s Sprint: Increased the movement speed from 10% to 25%.

Interesting. Pretty substantial boost to warrior mobility. This actually makes sense now.

That doesn’t stack with swiftness. Only 2 classes can break the 33% swiftness MS “barrier”: Engineers and… drum roll please… Surprise surprise… Thieves .

Excalibur.9748:

Yep it’s a big deal since the first thing I do after I catch up to the warrior is steal their boons.

…Then you’re still running faster than they are…

^But a 7% difference is better than 23%

warrior got 25% run speed with melee weapon trait and a trait to reduce movement impairment conditions duration 33%.

At launch there were tons of classes specing to run away. As the game progressed they got better builds so they had other options to be defensive. Warrior really only has going in and out of combat to achieve some level of sustain. In tanky gear thief cloak and dagger hits for 5k, backstab 8k, and heartseaker spam 3-5k. Obviously we cant take that kind of god mode beat down standing still.

We gotta try to cc/block/dodge at each pass the thief comes in to try to gib us, then unload one of our telegraphed attacks that dont automatically close the gap for us (weapons that dont telegraph are obviously popular ie mace over hammer, longbow or rifle, etc)

Warrior players have become masters in the art of running away because we’ve had to do it for so many months in a row during pvp.

Fenrir.5493:

A thief complaining about warriors…

The other day an idiot was complaining about longbow warriors being anoying so they should be nerfed….

And other day another one was complaining that as an ele he was outrunned by a warrior…

The community is so accostumed to warriors beign free kills that when that premise is not granted they rage and come to the forums with this poor excuses.

I think this is one of the reasons that the devs dont improve warrior, imagine what would be the scenario of that, warrior not beign free kills and beign on par with classes like the OP thieves, jus imagine that, a whole bunch of cry and complaints in the forums.

Quoted 4 truth.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Warriors got a much needed buff yes. They are far from “immune to conditions”.

That said, from your post history you seem to be a Thief player. If you’re playing a Thief and ANY other class outruns you you suck, plain and simple. Since the ele d/d nerf, no class comes close to the Thief’s mobility.

I know no one ever managed to get away from mine. Beat me? Sure, when they play better, but run away? No. Just no.

Ok, no… warriors have some of the best escape abilities. They can take hits and trait for chills immob etc… plenty of leap skills, swiftness, and movement skills that break stuns/immob, stability, shield, and take no pain, make them very hard to catch…it’s ridiculous. I have an easier time catching eles (with the rtl nerf) now than warriors and it’s not because of a lack of skill… they are just very good at running away.

Ridiculous is your complaint, you are a bad player if you cant deal with a simple warrior.

Alchemist.3692:

Ok, no… warriors have some of the best escape abilities. They can take hits and trait for chills immob etc… plenty of leap skills, swiftness, and movement skills that break stuns/immob, stability, shield, and take no pain, make them very hard to catch…it’s ridiculous. I have an easier time catching eles (with the rtl nerf) now than warriors and it’s not because of a lack of skill… they are just very good at running away.

Yes, they are good at running away. I never said they were bad. They’re not good enough to run away from a thief. If they’re running away from you, regardless of what you think, it is lack of skill.

I agree with the above poster. If a warrior cant runaway from a thief it is lack of skill.

When it comes down to it (aka battle speed…what we are talking about here) a mobility warrior is faster than a thief. Our skills will cooldown and be reusable faster than they can attack and regain initiative. If they cant get you down by the time they blow that first full stack of initiative then face it thief, you have no chance on somebody that knows how to cycle their mobility skills.

Huh… with the GS+axe/axe build I used, it was usually easy for me to run away, so long as people didn’t start spamming chill or cripple on me. (immobilize I could deal with, thanks to the master trait on discipline )

But still, want the best escape capabilities? try a thief or a mesmer, those kittens can just go stealth and teleport to run away, and mesmers also have clones that makes it harder to target the correct one when he starts doing that….

lol 2 extremes in this topic. on the one hand we got a tough guy saying you suck if you can’t catch a warrior if you’re a thief. on the other hand we got another tough guy saying you suck if you can’t run from a thief if you’re a warrior.

i guess we should have proxyDamage’s thief try to catch kRAVen’s warrior to settle this. oh and one of you stream it live.

I’ll just leave this here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/The-Ninja-Warrior-Build/first#post2371528

As much as people say thieves are the most mobile, I really think that I can beat a thief in a foot race. This is why I always get away if I need to disengage, especially when being ganked by 2-3 thieves. I’m almost always using gs + sw/wh, with SoR, charge, forceful gs, rush, whirlwind, balanced stance (swiftness now), and savage leap…when I use these I’m so far ahead of any enemy they give up. It’s funny to look behind as thieves are playing leap frog to catch up and burn their initiative, while I’m 2000+ range ahead and starting my rotation again. Once I get ooc I like to swap a utility for bull’s charge, get even further away and then use my key bind for walk as they try to catch up.

Simple answer is no no buffs to mobility. Warrior can not out run a thief unless they run S/X in both weapon sets.

For any warrior who think they are the ultra mobile elite.a a good thief will have shadowstep and bow or dagger. Factually if a thief just want to keep up with you its entirely possible because they have the gap closing mobility to do it no matter your set. There is no way around it. If you ran fro ma thief and got OOC the thief either blew their cool downs and you didn’t or they simply sucked.

TheGuy.3568:

Simple answer is no no buffs to mobility. Warrior can not out run a thief unless they run S/X in both weapon sets.

For any warrior who think they are the ultra mobile elite.a a good thief will have shadowstep and bow or dagger. Factually if a thief just want to keep up with you its entirely possible because they have the gap closing mobility to do it no matter your set. There is no way around it. If you ran fro ma thief and got OOC the thief either blew their cool downs and you didn’t or they simply sucked.

While Warriors need Sword and GS with perma swiftness to outrun a thief, they can very much do so.

Puandro.3245:

TheGuy.3568:

Simple answer is no no buffs to mobility. Warrior can not out run a thief unless they run S/X in both weapon sets.

For any warrior who think they are the ultra mobile elite.a a good thief will have shadowstep and bow or dagger. Factually if a thief just want to keep up with you its entirely possible because they have the gap closing mobility to do it no matter your set. There is no way around it. If you ran fro ma thief and got OOC the thief either blew their cool downs and you didn’t or they simply sucked.

While Warriors need Sword and GS with perma swiftness to outrun a thief, they can very much do so.

Sigh..

Bull’s Charge = 900 Rush 1,200 Savage Leap = 900 Whirlwind Attack =450

Total distance = 3,450
Total application time = 4 seconds

Shadowstep = 1.200 steal = 900 Infiltrator’s Arrow x 2= 1,800

Total distance = 3,900
Total activation time = Anywhere from 1 second to to 3 seconds Fast cast ground target could theoretically make it nearly instantaneous.

This is all assuming the thief doesn’t have any initiative traits. If he has base of 15 instead of 12 then you can get a Infiltrator’s Strike or a Heartseeker for an extra 600 or 450 range respectively. Even then at base iniative rechange of 1.33 seconds per point you could still get either one of these moves off in the time it takes for the warrior to complete his running way combo. CD reduction on warrior skills on GS would not effect the sprint portion of catching up.

Also note this does not factor in Infiltrator’s Signet, Roll for Initiative, Withdraw, and Scorpion Wire Wire acting as additional movement skills and gap closers. And does not factor in the use of Sprint for warrior.

TheGuy.3568:

Puandro.3245:

TheGuy.3568:

Simple answer is no no buffs to mobility. Warrior can not out run a thief unless they run S/X in both weapon sets.

For any warrior who think they are the ultra mobile elite.a a good thief will have shadowstep and bow or dagger. Factually if a thief just want to keep up with you its entirely possible because they have the gap closing mobility to do it no matter your set. There is no way around it. If you ran fro ma thief and got OOC the thief either blew their cool downs and you didn’t or they simply sucked.

While Warriors need Sword and GS with perma swiftness to outrun a thief, they can very much do so.

Sigh..

Bull’s Charge = 900 Rush 1,200 Savage Leap = 900 Whirlwind Attack =450

Total distance = 3,450
Total application time = 4 seconds

Shadowstep = 1.200 steal = 900 Infiltrator’s Arrow x 2= 1,800

Total distance = 3,900
Total activation time = Anywhere from 1 second to to 3 seconds Fast cast ground target could theoretically make it nearly instantaneous.

This is all assuming the thief doesn’t have any initiative traits. If he has base of 15 instead of 12 then you can get a Infiltrator’s Strike or a Heartseeker for an extra 600 or 450 range respectively. Even then at base iniative rechange of 1.33 seconds per point you could still get either one of these moves off in the time it takes for the warrior to complete his running way combo. CD reduction on warrior skills on GS would not effect the sprint portion of catching up.

Also note this does not factor in Infiltrator’s Signet, Roll for Initiative, Withdraw, and Scorpion Wire Wire acting as additional movement skills and gap closers. And does not factor in the use of Sprint for warrior.

What about if i start with a 4 second fear or pop it once you caught up to me?
What about smart terrain usage and perma swiftness?
You also forgot our tsunami slash, how is your mobility under water?
Are you traited for fall damage reduction?
How good is your cc removal and stability uptime?

In the end, it all boils down to how good you can play your class and your build.
A good thief will catch 90% of all warriors while a good warrior will also be able to get away most of the times.

Wanze.8410:

What about if i start with a 4 second fear or pop it once you caught up to me?

Infitratos signet and steal itself will counter that. As will Shadowstep.

Wanze.8410:

What about smart terrain usage and perma swiftness?

Perma swiftness wont factor 33% vs 25% where the 25% has vastly superior mobility. I do not mean slightly better mobility vastly superior mobility and more catch up skills then you could imagine plus access to immobilize and cripple on the run at range. Not even considering the fact that thief could possibly steal your boons so there is that also. So…..there’s that.

Terrain in terms of WvW there are only a few spots that you could use. Since none of them give you any move advantage then no being in melee range the thief could pull out SB and range you to death or just wait for you to move and continue the chase.

Wanze.8410:

You also forgot our tsunami slash, how is your mobility under water?

Not at all as I said I omitted some things (not to be nit picky), but since you would like to go there. Steal still works under water furthermore Ink Shot will allow the thief to catch up. The projectile speed is not that slow. the main disadvantage for thief underwater isn’t chasing a warrior but killing the warrior as warrior dps and cc underwater over shadows the thieves’.

Wanze.8410:

tAre you traited for fall damage reduction?

Irrelevant as both have traits for it and it wont factor unless they head to cliff. Too much of a hypothetical and pointless to ask as it has nothing to do with mobility.

Wanze.8410:

How good is your cc removal and stability uptime?

Stability on thief is hard to come by but CC removal is vastly superior to warriors. I am not going to do a detailed guide. However, sword main hand, SA trait 4 and some of the skills mentioned above. Also this is another pointless um point. Any warrior with enough CC to challenge your removal is running hammer or mace and its not all that mobile to begin with. So…..once again there is that.

Wanze.8410:

In the end, it all boils down to how good you can play your class and your build.
A good thief will catch 90% of all warriors while a good warrior will also be able to get away most of the times.

True and yet any good thief will caoth a warrior with a basic build end of story. D/P alone is troll worthy in this regard. (see Shadow Shot)

I know warrior like to debate but this one isn’t up for it. Any thief who knows what they are doing will catch you. You could be the best warrior when it comes to running away a good thief will catch you. If the thief didn’t catch you they sucked. End of story.

Edit:

Before some else tries to argue let me save you the trouble. On this particular issue there is no argument. Thief mobility and chase skills are better. Not up for debate. This is strictly the facts of the matter. It may cause some hurt to your pride or you may run circles around thief all day. I do not care. If a thief wants to catch you they will catch you. If you are both built for mobility he will outrun and outmaneuver you too.

TheGuy.3568:

Wanze.8410:

What about if i start with a 4 second fear or pop it once you caught up to me?

Infitratos signet and steal itself will counter that. As will Shadowstep.

Wanze.8410:

What about smart terrain usage and perma swiftness?

Perma swiftness wont factor 33% vs 25% where the 25% has vastly superior mobility. I do not mean slightly better mobility vastly superior mobility and more catch up skills then you could imagine plus access to immobilize and cripple on the run at range. Not even considering the fact that thief could possibly steal your boons so there is that also. So…..there’s that.

Terrain in terms of WvW there are only a few spots that you could use. Since none of them give you any move advantage then no being in melee range the thief could pull out SB and range you to death or just wait for you to move and continue the chase.

Wanze.8410:

You also forgot our tsunami slash, how is your mobility under water?

Not at all as I said I omitted some things (not to be nit picky), but since you would like to go there. Steal still works under water furthermore Ink Shot will allow the thief to catch up. The projectile speed is not that slow. the main disadvantage for thief underwater isn’t chasing a warrior but killing the warrior as warrior dps and cc underwater over shadows the thieves’.

Wanze.8410:

tAre you traited for fall damage reduction?

Irrelevant as both have traits for it and it wont factor unless they head to cliff. Too much of a hypothetical and pointless to ask as it has nothing to do with mobility.

Wanze.8410:

How good is your cc removal and stability uptime?

Stability on thief is hard to come by but CC removal is vastly superior to warriors. I am not going to do a detailed guide. However, sword main hand, SA trait 4 and some of the skills mentioned above. Also this is another pointless um point. Any warrior with enough CC to challenge your removal is running hammer or mace and its not all that mobile to begin with. So…..once again there is that.

Wanze.8410:

In the end, it all boils down to how good you can play your class and your build.
A good thief will catch 90% of all warriors while a good warrior will also be able to get away most of the times.

True and yet any good thief will caoth a warrior with a basic build end of story. D/P alone is troll worthy in this regard. (see Shadow Shot)

I know warrior like to debate but this one isn’t up for it. Any thief who knows what they are doing will catch you. You could be the best warrior when it comes to running away a good thief will catch you. If the thief didn’t catch you they sucked. End of story.

Edit:

Before some else tries to argue let me save you the trouble. On this particular issue there is no argument. Thief mobility and chase skills are better. Not up for debate. This is strictly the facts of the matter. It may cause some hurt to your pride or you may run circles around thief all day. I do not care. If a thief wants to catch you they will catch you. If you are both built for mobility he will outrun and outmaneuver you too.

I guess the only thing is that the thief will “catch” the warrior by matching the movement speed, but he won’t be able to kill a competent warrior by the time he caught up.

I can’t believe duration reduction stacking hasn’t been changed yet. I’d have thought even a 10 year old would be smart enough not to program it that way. Guess not.

It would considered as getting away if the warrior doesn’t die. Simply catching up is useless, after all.

TheGuy.3568:

Puandro.3245:

TheGuy.3568:

Simple answer is no no buffs to mobility. Warrior can not out run a thief unless they run S/X in both weapon sets.

For any warrior who think they are the ultra mobile elite.a a good thief will have shadowstep and bow or dagger. Factually if a thief just want to keep up with you its entirely possible because they have the gap closing mobility to do it no matter your set. There is no way around it. If you ran fro ma thief and got OOC the thief either blew their cool downs and you didn’t or they simply sucked.

While Warriors need Sword and GS with perma swiftness to outrun a thief, they can very much do so.

Sigh..

Bull’s Charge = 900 Rush 1,200 Savage Leap = 900 Whirlwind Attack =450

Total distance = 3,450
Total application time = 4 seconds

Shadowstep = 1.200 steal = 900 Infiltrator’s Arrow x 2= 1,800

Total distance = 3,900
Total activation time = Anywhere from 1 second to to 3 seconds Fast cast ground target could theoretically make it nearly instantaneous.

Warrior’s Stomp = knockback 450 range

Total thief distance 3900 – 450 = 3450 Range = Warrior
.
.
.
I’m just kidding!!

Stomp animation is obvious anyway, so if people would still use this fact (which is irrelevant, as pointed out – I’m not even contradicting the above quoted statement) I say let it down. It wouldn’t matter to anyone as long as both players would do their best.

peter.9024:

I guess the only thing is that the thief will “catch” the warrior by matching the movement speed, but he won’t be able to kill a competent warrior by the time he caught up.

That depends on a lot of factors including how much initiative he has left and the build he is running. For example a P/D thief wouldn’t have all that much issue vs a warrior even after they caught up. D/P would be “ok” If they didn’t blow their whole pool. PP likely would not win (not a very good dueling spec as it is) DD might be ok but once again its the pool. S/D or S/P would be fine in most cases. Once the chase game is over it comes down to player skill, numbers, and build knowledge. You could be the most competent warrior in the world and still get your kitten handed to you by a good thief and vice versa. There is no strong class advantage here at all save for the fact the thief has stealth and better kiting skills.

I run with a thief every night in wvw. He constantly beats me to the first enemy in sight. That being said, when people start to run (these are players that can survive an initial thief burst so i’m going to label them as anybody smart enough to run a stun break, invuln, or use a weapon escape skill quick enough) I am the one that catches them with my warrior. Since most battles (1v1, chases, etc) last longer than four seconds the cooldowns on a warriors weapon skills will allow faster movement (especially in battle) than a thief.

Thief has burst mobility but fot consistent mobility warrior will win. Also movement skills are affected by swiftness and teleports are not.

peter.9024:

I guess the only thing is that the thief will “catch” the warrior by matching the movement speed, but he won’t be able to kill a competent warrior by the time he caught up.

This… with only minor exceptions. Thanks, skullclamp.

Despite TheGuy’s laughable hyperbole, the actual “fact” of the matter is that thief mobility in the long run is inferior to warrior’s. When you divide distance by cd and add them all up warrior comes out ahead. Sure, thief pulls ahead initially, but can’t maintain due to long cds, lesser foot speed, and the lag associated with infiltrators arrow. Kraven and Puandro are right.

As far as the “catch” goes, cripple and immobilize are non issues for a warrior due to mobile strikes, and Charge, or the food/trait/rune combo. Add Endure Pain, Balanced Stance and there is nothing a thief can do to slow down the warrior from eventually pulling ahead.

On the other hand, IMO, the only reason thieves can escape from a GS+Sw/Wh warrior at all is stealth. And if they build for full mobility they wouldn’t even have that. =P

Uncle Shags.9017:

Despite TheGuy’s laughable hyperbole, the actual “fact” of the matter is that thief mobility in the long run is inferior to warrior’s. When you divide distance by cd and add them all up warrior comes out ahead. Sure, thief pulls ahead initially, but can’t maintain due to long cds, lesser foot speed, and the lag associated with infiltrators arrow. Kraven and Puandro are right.

As far as the “catch” goes, cripple and immobilize are non issues for a warrior due to mobile strikes, and Charge, or the food/trait/rune combo. Add Endure Pain, Balanced Stance and there is nothing a thief can do to slow down the warrior from eventually pulling ahead.

On the other hand, IMO, the only reason thieves can escape from a GS+Sw/Wh warrior at all is stealth. And if they build for full mobility they wouldn’t even have that. =P

You have a lot to say but you back it up with 0 math so your point was? I am right deal with it. You have too many flaws in your logic. Even with the best condi management in the world a thief can keep you crippled or simply stick to you. The math is not incorrect if you even took the time to read the rest of the skills I omitted you would have realized your arguments flaws. When you are read to come back and make an argument using “facts:” like cd reduction (which only applies to greatsword in this case) and compare that too the various traits and utility skills that allow the regeneration of initiative then you can talk. Until then learn something from some one who knows more than you its the smart move.

Puandro.3245:

Thief has burst mobility but fot consistent mobility warrior will win. Also movement skills are affected by swiftness and teleports are not.

Sigh…
And this is more miss information. Savage Leap is not affected by movement impairment or boost ie swiftness has no effect on it (same rules as RTL is you did not know). Heartseeker is affected by swiftness as Rush Whirlwind Attack and Bull Charge. These skills are affected by cripple even with the reduced cripple build if it is on as you activate the skill your distance will be reduced. It should also be noted that you could put 4 HS (450 × 4 initiative cost 3 per use) in place of the 2 IS (900 × 2 initiative cost 6 per use) in my above post and come up with the same numbers or better given the fact HS is affected by movement effects and utilizes Initiative better than IS.

This also has to be pointed out that many of you are making the common but understandable mistake that the thief need to be within 130m of you. This simply incorrect. Like I said if the thief just wants to keep you in battle they only need the SB and its 900 range to do that. Whether it be 1m distance or 890m that’s all any thief really needs to keep you in combat. That is not hard to do. Further. the fact that any CC you do to thief will require you to turn around and apply it (save some melee CC if the thief is close enough).

What you have to understand is depending on the build he may use no initiative in catching up to you or a minimal amount. Further more for mobility sake the only weapon a thief needs is shortbow. the off set could be anything from S/D to remove your boons to D/P which will simply be impossible to escape from.

Toady I encountered a thief and with my GS/Sw+Sh warrior ran circles around him. On my thief I just catch up to warriors and keep them in combat. YMMV depending on who you are fighting but at the end of the day if a thief wants to catch you they will.

Also, the hypotheticals do not match real builds. The reasons I used the skills I did in the example is because they are common to the bar in many builds. If you want to talk about hypothetical warrior builds build for max you “can’t stop me” compare them to builds for thief that are built for maximum inactive gain and management and gap closer’s (btw this type of build would have steal on a reduced cd how much is dependent upon the build).

Previous post ran long but for you min/maxers if you want to do some real math I can point you in the right direction. Considering warrior skills alone is foolish. If you intend to debate see the whole picture or do not bother.

Initiative Management Traits

Shadow Arts
Infusion of Shadow: Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths you.

Acrobatics
Quick Pockets: Gain 3 initiative on weapon swap while in combat.
Quick Recovery:Gain 2 initiative every 10 seconds.

Trickery
Kleptomaniac: Stealing gives you 3 initiative.
Preparedness: Increases maximum initiative by 3.
Hastened Replenishment: You receive 4 initiative when using a heal skill.
Initial Strike: Attacks with the first weapon-skill slot have a 7% chance to regain 1 initiative.

These can all be used in a single build.

Roll for Initiative can be used as both a movement skill (if you flip the camera) and an initiative management skill. CD can be reduced by 20 however you would have ot give up Initial strike.

Withdraw when combined with Hastened Replenishment provides 4 initiative every 15 seconds. Further more like Roll for initiative above if you flip your camera it can be used as a movement skill.

If you are willing to remove one of the 2 grandmaster traits listed above you as well as the shadow arts trait you could go 20 points into Critical strikes and use the trait signet use granting 2 initiative on signet activation and further more reducing the CD on Signet of Malice

Swiftness

Thrill of the Crime
Can help with swiftness but for perma swiftness you simply need. Rune of the Centaur plus 30 points into acrobatics for 30% boon duration (though 15 is actually enough with dodge traits). As long as you use either of the 2 heals above you can achieves perma swiftness. This also frees up a utility slot.

Steal

Recharge drops 20-30% depending on the build either to a 28 second cd or a 24.5 second cd.
Since the movement skills and gap closers are listed above I do not think I need to list them again.

i outrun thieves all the time, glass cannon GS/S+Wh with physical training + sprint traited , i think zerker warriors best defense in WvW is speed. i always use the hit & disengage tactic , most of the time i survive zerg wipes despite i have 0 toughness

peter.9024:

I think more warriors are running sword now that axe got hit with that Damage nerf..

Wait, axe didn’t get hit with a damage nerf….?

TheGuy.3568:

Puandro.3245:

TheGuy.3568:

Simple answer is no no buffs to mobility. Warrior can not out run a thief unless they run S/X in both weapon sets.

For any warrior who think they are the ultra mobile elite.a a good thief will have shadowstep and bow or dagger. Factually if a thief just want to keep up with you its entirely possible because they have the gap closing mobility to do it no matter your set. There is no way around it. If you ran fro ma thief and got OOC the thief either blew their cool downs and you didn’t or they simply sucked.

While Warriors need Sword and GS with perma swiftness to outrun a thief, they can very much do so.

Sigh..

Bull’s Charge = 900 Rush 1,200 Savage Leap = 900 Whirlwind Attack =450

Total distance = 3,450
Total application time = 4 seconds

Shadowstep = 1.200 steal = 900 Infiltrator’s Arrow x 2= 1,800

Total distance = 3,900
Total activation time = Anywhere from 1 second to to 3 seconds Fast cast ground target could theoretically make it nearly instantaneous.

This is all assuming the thief doesn’t have any initiative traits. If he has base of 15 instead of 12 then you can get a Infiltrator’s Strike or a Heartseeker for an extra 600 or 450 range respectively. Even then at base iniative rechange of 1.33 seconds per point you could still get either one of these moves off in the time it takes for the warrior to complete his running way combo. CD reduction on warrior skills on GS would not effect the sprint portion of catching up.

Also note this does not factor in Infiltrator’s Signet, Roll for Initiative, Withdraw, and Scorpion Wire Wire acting as additional movement skills and gap closers. And does not factor in the use of Sprint for warrior.

All of warriors movement abilitys besides sword leap go further than what is said on the tool tip while the warrior has swiftness on. I wouldn’t say it’s exactly 33% further, but it is significant