Guild Wars 2

Link.6157:

Talking for pve only: I realy get sick of the damage warriors do, every dungeon in the lfg tool: zerk wa only… This class needs a nerf in pve becaus it’s just impossible to get close to it in damage, why is it that this class has the right to do more damage than most others? How much longer are other classes going to be discriminated? Most people here are against a nerf because they use it for speed clears. It just makes me so furious when i see those wa only groups and even more when arenanet refuses to nerf them… Balance, it’s a joke here.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Ele, guard, thief – all of these classes outdamage warrior. Stop being misinformed.

Harper.4173:

Link.6157:

Talking for pve only: I realy get sick of the damage warriors do, every dungeon in the lfg tool: zerk wa only… This class needs a nerf in pve becaus it’s just impossible to get close to it in damage, why is it that this class has the right to do more damage than most others? How much longer are other classes going to be discriminated? Most people here are against a nerf because they use it for speed clears. It just makes me so furious when i see those wa only groups and even more when arenanet refuses to nerf them… Balance, it’s a joke here.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Ele, guard, thief – all of these classes outdamage warrior. Stop being misinformed.

lol, you might think he’s misinformed, but I’m sure you’re delusional

Ele outdamages Warrior? Yep you are totally wrong harper. And no fiery greatsword against wall does not apply. First of all it can be considered bug/glitch, so it’s might get nerf. Secondly, it’s only up very shortly and in the downtimes, ele really really does incredible bad damage over time.

You’re playing it wrong – overall – people who’ve done the numbers on these have come to the agreement that ele outdamages war. I’ve discussed this with a few people who play ele and as far as they go – they confirmed it.

What about guard and thief – you’re not going to address that? They clearly outdamage warrior.

Obviously never seen a good hammer ele.

Guard/ele/thief can indeed out-dps warriors as mentioned above.
However they end up very glassy and often don’t contribute as much to the group as the basic warrior + FGJ + banner does.

If you wanna say ‘90% of player are wrong, by thinking ele has worse damage then warrior’, you need to back it up. Wich you aren’t doing.

Staff ele cast time (and aftercasts, wich nobody takes up in calculations, and their squishyness wich makes they need to dodge more and thus loose dps for survival) is so long that even with strong effects, it cant equalize warrior burst/sustain melee damage.

Dagger ele would prolly need full zerker and single target and fire attunement to equal zerker warrior and i doubt it’s even then as good as warrior. Add the impossible to survive with, stats that a zerker ele has, and your point becomes mooth.

FGS against wall is a nice spike but that’s it.

And thief outdamaging warrior? Maybe single target, but even then meh. And thief is so squishy they will down way more and need more survival acts, (and thus loose dps) to get in line with warrior dps (who can survive more punishment).

No because it’s always about 1 vs 1 ignoring the fact this game is teamwork.

Why should they get nerf anyway when they have worthy or difficult adversaries to fight against in pvp.

This is why I lose interest in pvp a lot. When they try to balance classes it always falls down to 1 vs 1 fights instead of teamplay.

Saying this X class is strong shouldn’t be nerf down because it so happens to be everyone favorite build.

Instead of nerfing, buff other builds that can be better than this so call mandatory build. Not just for one class, but for all so it’ll be less frustration for those that have to change their gameplay style due to unfortunate players.

A 5 warrior team will beat anything right now in TPVP, what teamwork is their when you dont need support you dont need a conditioner you dont need a burster. If warrior can do it all there is just one class…

to this teamwork guy above me

Just because a profession is popular does not necessarily mean it needs a nerf.
It is a perfect world that everyone should roll a balanced mix of professions each one has a unique play style that may not appeal to everyone.

Warrior is one of the 2 close combat orientated professions that are a must in any organised group in WvW Warrior and Guardian are the main two front line professions with their heavy armor and survivability guardian mechanics are focused much more on support than DPS whilst Warrior has flexibility to cater to many situations and roles.

It is the warriors flexibility that makes it popular many of the other professions hem you into specific builds and play styles i play both a warrior and guardian at lvl 80 in WvW. I command with my guardian and i often have to stick with a support orientated builds in order to stay alive long enough to keep the lead in any fights and provide support to my group. Warrior on the other hand is more forgiving in regards to its higher HP pool that allows me to mix things up a bit and try different roles whilst maintaining a level of survivability. My guardian does not due to a low base HP pool so i can go from 21K HP in support to 15-16K in full DPS whilst with the warrior i can maintain 19K in knights and berserker.

When it comes down to it flexibility and the ease of transition between builds in other professions is what’s lacking for me the Warrior is closer to where it should be than any other profession Anet needs to pick the remaining professions that are lacking up rather than nerf others down.

Peow peow.2189:

A 5 warrior team will beat anything right now in TPVP, what teamwork is their when you dont need support you dont need a conditioner you dont need a burster. If warrior can do it all there is just one class…

to this teamwork guy above me

Okay then find a strategy to beat them? They’re no different than fighting 5 engineers or elementalists when they can dominate just as good. There’s always going to be a counter for every class. You just haven’t found it yet or don’t want to make another build because you’re comfortable with it.

I don’t think any class needs a nerf. I just think the other classes need to be buffed to the lvl of the other ones.

Before the warrior was a joke in PVP.

Now there’s some viability to it and it became popular even there.

The thing is, maybe people are just whining because before it was just “the pve god” and now they get rustled because war is not a joke anymore in pvp and it can pose a threat.

Will you ever stop complaining?

Heta.8629:

Baclavaman.9054:

I would say no because it is rather fine as it is BUT buff the other classes.

Warrior is the class that does the best dps, has the heavy armor, the most hp ( on part with engy and necro) and has a ridiculous passive healing mechanic that cost 15 traits points and healing skill.

I like Warrior a lot so dont ge me wrong here, but after some maths and a sad face later i realised how a warrior can self heal himself and support a party so much better than a guardian i almost regret having a guardian in the first place, i hate doing maths, i m always dissapointed by the results…

Warrior

healing signet, 392 heal (0.5), self, passive healing + active healing, low cooldown
adrenal health 360 (0.15) over 3 seconds or 120 second, scales with adrenaline, passive healing, self
vigorous shouts 1480 (0.9), active AoE healing, low cooldown
regeneration from banners 130 (0.125), passive healing, AoE

Guardian

virtue of resolve 84(0.06), self but can become AoE
monks focus ( healing meditations) 1960 (0.4), self, active healing
altruistic healing 69 (0.01), healing is self but boons are AoE
writ of merciful ( healing symbols) 107(0.075), AoE, on every third attack ( hammer) or active skill
selfless daring 129(1.0) AoE on dodge

Warrior scales better with healing power than guardian ( exception of selfless daring), most of them are passive healing compared to guardian skills while having more hp and stopping power. This is just an example between the 2 but i did also some calculations on conditions, burst damage and so on.

Warriors are by far the best class in the game currently, nerfing them wouldnt be the solution be a buff for the other classes would be a welcomed addition: same base stats and hp for every single class so that way gears and traits will be the key component that makes you a hard hitter or a more resilient character. Heavy armor class would remains he same but the medium and light would regenerate dodge energy faster, medium 25% and light 50% but this is an example so dont burn me.

This is just a constatation, all those values mentionned above are from the wiki and the rest are my opinions. There is no trinity in this game wich is an awesome concept but the fact some classes do have more hp that others while naked do suggest some unbalance.

For the notes i am a PVE player, mostly tanky support when it come to heavy armor ( i like being the last one standing). All i said dont support the PvP experience since i dont really participate in it. My full cleric guardian tanks less than my knight dps warrior spec

Coefficient on healing signet is wrong. Can’t have healing shouts and regen banners. Would need to spend at least 45 trait points for all that healing. More research needs done before you post

I took the scaling values on the wiki, maybe it changed between the time i posted and when you posted your comment who knows, also i wasnt making a build showing that the war could equip healing signet, vigorous shout and healing banner all at once ( would be kinda OP if you ask me), i was just listing all the healing sources of both classes. So before saying that i need to do more research before i post try to understand the context, at least your were polite so that why i still respect your opinion and if i made a mistake on the coefficient of healing signet well sorry for that mistake

Baclavaman.9054:

Heta.8629:

Baclavaman.9054:

I would say no because it is rather fine as it is BUT buff the other classes.

Warrior is the class that does the best dps, has the heavy armor, the most hp ( on part with engy and necro) and has a ridiculous passive healing mechanic that cost 15 traits points and healing skill.

I like Warrior a lot so dont ge me wrong here, but after some maths and a sad face later i realised how a warrior can self heal himself and support a party so much better than a guardian i almost regret having a guardian in the first place, i hate doing maths, i m always dissapointed by the results…

Warrior

healing signet, 392 heal (0.5), self, passive healing + active healing, low cooldown
adrenal health 360 (0.15) over 3 seconds or 120 second, scales with adrenaline, passive healing, self
vigorous shouts 1480 (0.9), active AoE healing, low cooldown
regeneration from banners 130 (0.125), passive healing, AoE

Guardian

virtue of resolve 84(0.06), self but can become AoE
monks focus ( healing meditations) 1960 (0.4), self, active healing
altruistic healing 69 (0.01), healing is self but boons are AoE
writ of merciful ( healing symbols) 107(0.075), AoE, on every third attack ( hammer) or active skill
selfless daring 129(1.0) AoE on dodge

Warrior scales better with healing power than guardian ( exception of selfless daring), most of them are passive healing compared to guardian skills while having more hp and stopping power. This is just an example between the 2 but i did also some calculations on conditions, burst damage and so on.

Warriors are by far the best class in the game currently, nerfing them wouldnt be the solution be a buff for the other classes would be a welcomed addition: same base stats and hp for every single class so that way gears and traits will be the key component that makes you a hard hitter or a more resilient character. Heavy armor class would remains he same but the medium and light would regenerate dodge energy faster, medium 25% and light 50% but this is an example so dont burn me.

This is just a constatation, all those values mentionned above are from the wiki and the rest are my opinions. There is no trinity in this game wich is an awesome concept but the fact some classes do have more hp that others while naked do suggest some unbalance.

For the notes i am a PVE player, mostly tanky support when it come to heavy armor ( i like being the last one standing). All i said dont support the PvP experience since i dont really participate in it. My full cleric guardian tanks less than my knight dps warrior spec

Coefficient on healing signet is wrong. Can’t have healing shouts and regen banners. Would need to spend at least 45 trait points for all that healing. More research needs done before you post

I took the scaling values on the wiki, maybe it changed between the time i posted and when you posted your comment who knows, also i wasnt making a build showing that the war could equip healing signet, vigorous shout and healing banner all at once ( would be kinda OP if you ask me), i was just listing all the healing sources of both classes. So before saying that i need to do more research before i post try to understand the context, at least your were polite so that why i still respect your opinion and if i made a mistake on the coefficient of healing signet well sorry for that mistake

I think you should learn how to play guardians and warriors before commenting on this. virtue of resolve is 1625 healing base its not 84. Second Altruistic healing is much better than that. Not only is it 71 and not 69 but guardians but it applys healing for each stack of a boon. So If a gurdian uses empower to give 12 stacks of might to 5 poeple that is 4260 lol And gurdians are all about spamming boons, nspired virtues apply aoe boons whenever you use a virtue. Also Virtue of justice can be traited that it refreshes each time you get credit for a kill so in zerg fights you can just press F1 repeatedly to get heals. Altruistic healing with pure of voice allies effected by shouts have conditions converted to boons that also heals you. How about Writ of the Merciful Symbols heal you. Gurdians will get healed just from auto attack on the hammer and get protection and give protection boon at the same time which can also heal them.

Selfless daring is also really strong especially with sigil of stamina. Because it refils endurance each time you get credit for a kill, with means you can dodge yourself to full hp. Monks focous is better than that also yes it has a lower healing power coefficient but its base heal is = to like a warrior with healing power gear, and dont get me started on gurdians superior condition removal, protection and line of wardings etc.

i think warrior is ok but the rest classes need a buff and so does the pve continent

not really some shaving should be expected but anyone who has played a warrior has learned the class will tell you their easily countered if you know what your doing. ofc if you get blind sided yeah your probably going to be demolished but then again most classes can do that.

No, other people need to learn how to play their class efficiently there is absolutely no class out there that cannot kill a warrior 1v1 right now. Every class has a HARD counter for a warrior.

Warriors definitely needs nerf or Anet should buff other classess.

Warrior so far the best pve/pvp/wvw class.

Warrior’s mobility is ridiculous almost better than the thief’s even though warrior is HEAVY ARMOR CLASS

Warriors got the highest toughness/hp out of all classess which means warriors can survive/tank way better than any other classess while warriors can stack berserker gears/full dps.

Warrior’s healing signet is extremely op it’s just like a zombie

I have all the professions but i can tell Warriors are superior than any other classess.

and people who ever says thief/ele out dps warrior is just stupid

if any other classess out dps warrior’s that means they are going full berserk which means they are extremely squishy/glass cannon but look at the warriors? they have the highest toughness/hp which means they cank tank/survive way better than any other classess while they can do massive damage.

full berserk set with 20k+hp? and high toughness lol seriously? none of classess except warriors can have 20k+hp and high toughness using berserker set

MidoriMarch.8067:

full berserk set with 20k+hp? and high toughness lol seriously? none of classess except warriors can have 20k+hp and high toughness using berserker set

warrior needs high HP because HP and armor are the only thing this class has to mitigate damage: do you see warrior with protectioni, blinds, aegis, stealth, clones?
Also with berserker set you don’t have that high toughtness unless you use runes or go full in the defense tree.

Humbolio.2174:

The problem is more that most of the other classes need a buff and more viable build options

Thus…warrior need a nerf

When you feel that all others are wrong and against you, it is maybe because the problem is on your side.

Heimdallr.7021:

warrior needs high HP because HP and armor are the only thing this class has to mitigate damage

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiant_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance

you are welcome

Kicast.1459:

Heimdallr.7021:

warrior needs high HP because HP and armor are the only thing this class has to mitigate damage

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiant_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance

you are welcome

berserker stance works only against conditions, defiant stance it’s not used by any warrior in is right mind (should it became popular i bet people like you will come here and ask for a nerf).
As for the other two, are you seriously comparing shield stance versus thhe high protection uptime a guardian can have?
Face the fact that warrior has high HP because they lack the damage mitigation other classes have.

Apparently, the answer is yes because there’s an entire thread that answers this, entitled “Why Warriors Need a Nerf” : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Why-Warriors-Need-a-Nerf/first

lol

Heimdallr.7021:

berserker stance works only against conditions

So what ? Conditions do not make damage ?

Heimdallr.7021:

defiant stance it’s not used by any warrior in is right mind (should it became popular i bet people like you will come here and ask for a nerf).

It is not used thus it is not a damage mitigation tool ? Is that your logic ?

Heimdallr.7021:

As for the other two, are you seriously comparing shield stance versus thhe high protection uptime a guardian can have?

+

warrior needs high HP because HP and armor are the only thing this class has to mitigate damage: do you see warrior with protectioni, blinds, aegis, stealth, clones?

Just lol guy…it seems you try to compare worst to best.
Why not comparing protection with endure pain and shield stance with blind?

Face the fact that warrior has high HP because they lack the damage mitigation other classes have.

Insisting mindlessly will not change facts. You are not asking for fact but for chantry.

Ohh… and I forgot this one: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
But I am sure you will tell us that it is no damage mitigation as it is for conditions

Kicast.1459:

Ohh… and I forgot this one: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
But I am sure you will tell us that it is no damage mitigation as it is for conditions

Damage mitigaion is by definition when you reduce the damage you take from attacks (with you armor, blocks, blinds ecc), so no, cleansing ire is not damage mitigation the same way purging flames it’s not damage mitigation (to be clear: they are condition removal). Also the warrior can’t deny damage the same way mesmers and thieves can with stealth and clones.
If you put warrior HP in line with those of the guardian the class will hit rock bottom at the speed of light.

Now the forum whiners want to nerf sword offhand! They want to kill every viable build we have.

Kicast.1459:

Heimdallr.7021:

berserker stance works only against conditions

So what ? Conditions do not make damage ?

Heimdallr.7021:

defiant stance it’s not used by any warrior in is right mind (should it became popular i bet people like you will come here and ask for a nerf).

It is not used thus it is not a damage mitigation tool ? Is that your logic ?

Heimdallr.7021:

As for the other two, are you seriously comparing shield stance versus thhe high protection uptime a guardian can have?

+

warrior needs high HP because HP and armor are the only thing this class has to mitigate damage: do you see warrior with protectioni, blinds, aegis, stealth, clones?

Just lol guy…it seems you try to compare worst to best.
Why not comparing protection with endure pain and shield stance with blind?

Face the fact that warrior has high HP because they lack the damage mitigation other classes have.

People like u make me sick.. the desperation in ur post is also very thick btw. Heimdallr was right, maybe u need a list of things other classes take for granted that us wars dont have: protection, regen, blinds, invulns (a proper one, blocks don’t count and neither does Endure Pain since we are still vulnerable to condis and CC), aegis, reflects, chill, pulls.. I could go on and on but u get the idea.

Comparing protection with Endure Pain..doesnt make any sense because a guard spamming protection can make it last more than 5x as long. more valid comparison to: virtue of courage/renewed focus. Shield stance to shield of wrath or any of the other various block skills guards have. u can also add their blinds too if u want, bit of an unfair advantage.

Kicast.1459:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiant_Stance
you are welcome

Like was mentioned Berserker Stance is kinda a waste of a skill slot. I’ve personally never felt the need to run it. don’t know why u would count it. For Defiant Stance u could count save yourselves! or virtue of resolve. And Endure Pain is one of hte only dmg mitigation skills we have, apart from Dolyak Signet (not even protection, not invuln). Are u seriously asking to nerf that as well?

nagr.1593:

Kicast.1459:

Heimdallr.7021:

berserker stance works only against conditions

So what ? Conditions do not make damage ?

Heimdallr.7021:

defiant stance it’s not used by any warrior in is right mind (should it became popular i bet people like you will come here and ask for a nerf).

It is not used thus it is not a damage mitigation tool ? Is that your logic ?

Heimdallr.7021:

As for the other two, are you seriously comparing shield stance versus thhe high protection uptime a guardian can have?

+

warrior needs high HP because HP and armor are the only thing this class has to mitigate damage: do you see warrior with protectioni, blinds, aegis, stealth, clones?

Just lol guy…it seems you try to compare worst to best.
Why not comparing protection with endure pain and shield stance with blind?

Face the fact that warrior has high HP because they lack the damage mitigation other classes have.

People like u make me sick.. the desperation in ur post is also very thick btw. Heimdallr was right, maybe u need a list of things other classes take for granted that us wars dont have: protection, regen, blinds, invulns (a proper one, blocks don’t count and neither does Endure Pain since we are still vulnerable to condis and CC), aegis, reflects, chill, pulls.. I could go on and on but u get the idea.

Comparing protection with Endure Pain..doesnt make any sense because a guard spamming protection can make it last more than 5x as long. more valid comparison to: virtue of courage/renewed focus. Shield stance to shield of wrath or any of the other various block skills guards have. u can also add their blinds too if u want, bit of an unfair advantage.

Kicast.1459:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiant_Stance
you are welcome

Like was mentioned Berserker Stance is kinda a waste of a skill slot. I’ve personally never felt the need to run it. don’t know why u would count it. For Defiant Stance u could count save yourselves! or virtue of resolve. And Endure Pain is one of hte only dmg mitigation skills we have, apart from Dolyak Signet (not even protection, not invuln). Are u seriously asking to nerf that as well?

i ran zerk stance a time or two mainly because while I was scouting in spvp tourney I found a team full of thieves and engis.

oh and wars do have some access to regen two traits 1 if a banner is used will put it on everyone. 2 dogged march if your nailed with cripple chill or immobile (I believe immobile)

we do get nice healing through healing sig (which people want nerfed into the ground) and some rather minor healing from adrenal health

we do have some sustain but not a lot of it.

Kicast.1459:

Heimdallr.7021:

berserker stance works only against conditions

So what ? Conditions do not make damage ?

Heimdallr.7021:

defiant stance it’s not used by any warrior in is right mind (should it became popular i bet people like you will come here and ask for a nerf).

It is not used thus it is not a damage mitigation tool ? Is that your logic ?

Heimdallr.7021:

As for the other two, are you seriously comparing shield stance versus thhe high protection uptime a guardian can have?

+

warrior needs high HP because HP and armor are the only thing this class has to mitigate damage: do you see warrior with protectioni, blinds, aegis, stealth, clones?

Just lol guy…it seems you try to compare worst to best.
Why not comparing protection with endure pain and shield stance with blind?

Face the fact that warrior has high HP because they lack the damage mitigation other classes have.

Insisting mindlessly will not change facts. You are not asking for fact but for chantry.

Ohh… and I forgot this one: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
But I am sure you will tell us that it is no damage mitigation as it is for conditions

well you just showed exactly how well you know the warrior class probably why you struggle apparently.

zerk stances does not cure conditions and will only stop them from being applied UNLESS the oppentent has condition duration at which point zerk will not block conditions for that duration.

shield stance yup I guess we should strip all the other professions protections blinds aegis regen stealth and the like and force you to use a specific weapon for them.

endure pain and defiant stance.

wow 4 seconds of invunlerbility how many 10s of seconds does a good guard maintain protection? defiant stance same thing EXCEPT makes your heal absolutely worthless if your facing someone who knows jack about it.

mean while virtually every other class has access to one or more abilitys to reduce their damage very reliably. between a Mesmer with clones and stealth. a thieves constant blinds and stealth. guardian for virtually every way except clones and stealth. that’s just tip of the ice berg I won’t bother listing how every single class how infinitely better damage mitigation vs the warrior.

ya i think so . or buff the other classes idk . ok with both
but i have only seen a few really incredible wars where it is like r they just hacking lol .
i want to know what kind of war this was ? . used very little boons almost none, the only boon i ever noticed was regen
super bunker . killed off 2 thief’s a mesmer a guard element 3 rangers most all skilled lvl 80 . one under lvl 60+ that where focused on just him in side the keep . npc where not a problem … was a small guild team . even when endure pain was not up had REALLY high def with still really good attack .
does anyone know what he was running that was so good with out any boons ?

no, warriors are fine as they are. Everyone else just needs to be buffed.

Humbolio.2174:

It’s not that warrior needs a nerf, it’s a brilliant class.

The problem is more that most of the other classes need a buff and more viable build options. Warrior has a lot of viable builds, most other classes have barely any

This is NOT why people are annoyed at Warriors. If Warriors had tanky builds with low DPS or DPS builds with no tank or speed builds with no DPS or HP then no one would care, they’d have tradeoffs and weakness like other classes.

Currently warriors don’t have tradeoffs. They just get to play everything in the one build.

Mian.1945:

Humbolio.2174:

It’s not that warrior needs a nerf, it’s a brilliant class.

The problem is more that most of the other classes need a buff and more viable build options. Warrior has a lot of viable builds, most other classes have barely any

This is NOT why people are annoyed at Warriors. If Warriors had tanky builds with low DPS or DPS builds with no tank or speed builds with no DPS or HP then no one would care, they’d have tradeoffs and weakness like other classes.

Currently warriors don’t have tradeoffs. They just get to play everything in the one build.

That’s wrong.
If you have a tanky build i can assure you a warrior cannot get anywhere near the dps of other classes.

(having 20-22k HP is not considered tanky for a warrior)

Other professions as the Elementalist and Ranger need to buffed to level of the warrior. The build-variety of the warrior is superior compared to the variety of those professions.

Actualy mostly played professions are Necromancers, Thieves, Warriors and Guardians because those professions are really easy to play. Its easy to plan with this character and to find a way for your playstyle. All of those classes have an unbelivable sustain, utility-variety, condition cleanse and all of them are able to deal tons of damage.
I don’t see why an Elementalist, Ranger and Engineer shouldn’t be easy to play as those professions to be honest.

All of those mentioned classes are not overpowered. Instead they are intended to work like this … And I don’t get why other professions shouldn’t work as those professions. Nerfing professions is a bad move to be honest. There is a reason why players don’t play professions as Elementalists or Ranger that often as Warrior. “Mastering” or finding a way to play those classes correctly in most situations needs too much of time effort.

why are you even arguing in a months old thread?

warrior isn’t even the best in pve or pvp, it’s just very easy to play so it’s best in average-skilled hands.

warriors don’t need a nerf. Why? because we are already balance if you don’t believe me then i cant force you. this is from playing Only Warrior Class since 2012 got ups and down but i don’t care if D/D ele back then is a god and necro melt warriors like ice on summer it’s about how you counter the build don’t expect 1 build to rule them all. warrior has lots of viable build right now but other people think it’s OP instead of asking anet to fix their class so they can have multiple builds too. this is the only word i can say learn how to counter the build and you will win i’m kittened every time i spec and bring full dps utilities and fought against necro because they spamm their conditions but when i spec against heavy condition build i laugh at them. i hope you get what i mean.

Absolutely. Without question.

Warriors traditional anti-nerf response is “make other classes like us” but that misses some huge problems of power creep. Or they will argue that build diversity will suffer but look at the engineer, they are very average but that has led to an enormous number of quality builds.

Warriors are OP and the most obvious way of seeing it is looking at how many there are, how many are wanted in dungeon runs, how many do well in WvW.

The greatest precursor of balance is population of a class. Warriors need to be toned down dramatically.

No. learn to play instead of whining

Bombsaway.7198:

The greatest precursor of balance is population of a class. Warriors need to be toned down dramatically.

Maybe you didn’t play when GW2 was released but warrior was a very popular class even back then.
In every MMO the warrior is usually a very played class.

Heimdallr.7021:

Bombsaway.7198:

The greatest precursor of balance is population of a class. Warriors need to be toned down dramatically.

Maybe you didn’t play when GW2 was released but warrior was a very popular class even back then.
In every MMO the warrior is usually a very played class.

People like bombs will never get it – since he’s blinded by his hatred at the class.
Warriors will ALWAYS be popular. People like a simple class.

Mesmer will ALWAYS be less popular – even if you make them super OP – which they were at the beginning of the game. Because they’re complicated to use and have wonky mechanics. People don’t want wonky mechanics – they want to hit things with big swords.

Harper.4173:

Heimdallr.7021:

Bombsaway.7198:

The greatest precursor of balance is population of a class. Warriors need to be toned down dramatically.

Maybe you didn’t play when GW2 was released but warrior was a very popular class even back then.
In every MMO the warrior is usually a very played class.

People like bombs will never get it – since he’s blinded by his hatred at the class.
Warriors will ALWAYS be popular. People like a simple class.

Mesmer will ALWAYS be less popular – even if you make them super OP – which they were at the beginning of the game. Because they’re complicated to use and have wonky mechanics. People don’t want wonky mechanics – they want to hit things with big swords.

spvp was a mesmer fest when they where overpowered

warriors Achilles heel was conditions,
when dogged march and cleansing ire were introduced , warrior had no weakness, no class to counter it.
in PVE warrior is also the most face rolling class. ( LFM war zerk only etc…)
high armor, balanced traits, top damage.

maybe weapon skill coefficient tuning or increase slightly the CD on some skills that used for mobility ( whirlwind attack, rush, savage leap etc) is required.

jihm.2315:

Harper.4173:

Heimdallr.7021:

Bombsaway.7198:

The greatest precursor of balance is population of a class. Warriors need to be toned down dramatically.

Maybe you didn’t play when GW2 was released but warrior was a very popular class even back then.
In every MMO the warrior is usually a very played class.

People like bombs will never get it – since he’s blinded by his hatred at the class.
Warriors will ALWAYS be popular. People like a simple class.

Mesmer will ALWAYS be less popular – even if you make them super OP – which they were at the beginning of the game. Because they’re complicated to use and have wonky mechanics. People don’t want wonky mechanics – they want to hit things with big swords.

spvp was a mesmer fest when they where overpowered

sPVP means NO investment in that character.
Not very many players in the player base bother with any form of pvp. The point here being that players sPVP cannot be considered representative for the majority of the players that this game has.

sPVP is more of a flavor of the month place – because making and gearing a char is easy there.

I was here on day one of this game’s start. Mesmers were a scarce occurrence. And probably always will be.

I think that one could equally say that you are blinded in the idea that there should be a class that is popular. In an sPvP environment, FOTM makes it not matter much. But in WvW, the issue is quite important.

I don’t think it is unrealistic to say that traditionally a game relies upon having a mix of all classes roughly in balance. This is why you often see the popular class being the one that is at best average. Imagine what SWTOR would look like if Jedis were actually the most powerful (It was a significant design discussion).

In all aspects of the game, you tend to seek balance (population, economy, etc). Class balance is no different. If you have too many warriors, you nerf warriors. If you can’t get enough people to play a certain class you buff it.

You don’t obliterate it because then you will have the problem of too few. But, you do indeed tone the class down. You never ever want to see a zerg where 2 classes represent 50ish percent of the toons.

Bombsaway.7198:

I think that one could equally say that you are blinded in the idea that there should be a class that is popular. In an sPvP environment, FOTM makes it not matter much. But in WvW, the issue is quite important.

I don’t think it is unrealistic to say that traditionally a game relies upon having a mix of all classes roughly in balance. This is why you often see the popular class being the one that is at best average. Imagine what SWTOR would look like if Jedis were actually the most powerful (It was a significant design discussion).

In all aspects of the game, you tend to seek balance (population, economy, etc). Class balance is no different. If you have too many warriors, you nerf warriors. If you can’t get enough people to play a certain class you buff it.

You don’t obliterate it because then you will have the problem of too few. But, you do indeed tone the class down. You never ever want to see a zerg where 2 classes represent 50ish percent of the toons.

You do realize you’re talking about apples and oranges right?

Warriors being POPULAR doesn’t mean warriors are OVERPOWERED.
A class can be POPULAR without it being overpowered.

By your logic – mesmers – currently the least popular class should be buffed until what? Most people switch to mesmer? And when they do you start nerfing and buff the other unplayed classes then repeat?

Warriors were VERY underpowered until the HS and condi cleanse patches and I believe they were still the most played class in the game AT THAT TIME – if not the most played definitely in the top 3. And you couldn’t even warrior in sPVP or WvW – you would lose that bad.

This whole notion is silly.
Classes by design are more or less suited for different tasks.

Eles for example do AOE – you need AOE in a zerg.
Guardians have reflects, condi cleanse and boons – you need those in a zerg.
Necro has tons of condi aoe- you need that in a zerg.

What does thief bring to a zerg? Nada.

So by your logic – nerf the first three and buff thieves so they become part of a zerg in WvW?

Classes are designed around a core concept – some classes don’t fit in with the idea of zerg play. And WvW is and will be focused on zerg play because of the map design.

Please see reason.

Bombsaway.7198:

I think that one could equally say that you are blinded in the idea that there should be a class that is popular. In an sPvP environment, FOTM makes it not matter much. But in WvW, the issue is quite important.

I don’t think it is unrealistic to say that traditionally a game relies upon having a mix of all classes roughly in balance. This is why you often see the popular class being the one that is at best average. Imagine what SWTOR would look like if Jedis were actually the most powerful (It was a significant design discussion).

In all aspects of the game, you tend to seek balance (population, economy, etc). Class balance is no different. If you have too many warriors, you nerf warriors. If you can’t get enough people to play a certain class you buff it.

You don’t obliterate it because then you will have the problem of too few. But, you do indeed tone the class down. You never ever want to see a zerg where 2 classes represent 50ish percent of the toons.

bombsaway I remember reading a comment you made about you don’t see why engis are so unpopular. i’ll be frank if this is the case (starting to think it is after seeing this comment) then you will never be happy.

engis have innate flaws that hurt their popularity and until some (some will never be fixed) engis will never reach the popularity of warriors. short of making warriors unplayable (which would more likely cause a massive out cry for buffs) engis will never usurp the warrior.

engis use weapon kits which cover you back and legendary. engis sacks just look horrible nicked named hobo sack for a reason. gw2 is a fantasy mmorpg not a science one warrior mages and paldians will be more popular.

engi has a higher skill cap a new player will likely pick up a warrior play it learn it like it. hell I can play engi pretty well when I want too but I personally prefer how the warrior feels. many will agree with this they want to be in the fray melee swords in hand so to speak.

gw2 being a fantasy game will attract a larger auidience who think alongs the lines of warrior mage paladin or archer.

gw2 does not need nerfs classes need buffs you say that (buffing a class is no different then a nerf) this is incorrect allowing more options to use ones class increases options and build variety something the warrior has in spades. while it is true in the aspect that a class will do better in pve and pvp against you it’s not exactly the same.

buff cause power creep. power creep is by definition when newer content makes older content obsolete or significantly easier. power creep has been in gw2 since day 1. take a look at ac and how many 35s actually do our 35 and up dungeon buffs had nothing to do with it it was the game dynamics allowing lvl 80 armor to enter into a lvl 35 dungeon with the same stats. because of this they buffed the dungeon so it wasn’t such a breeze.

warriors had no part in either of these. you want a single solid answer to dealing with class a and class b for the most part it exists in some form or another with a few builds that abuse certain mechanics i.e. perm stealth thieves hambow warriors. both issues aer easy enough to fix and yet would not satisfy the peope who claim nerf nerf since at best they are tweaks.

this however misses a core point. when a class is under performing the only way to fix it via nerf is to nerf everyone. nerfing creates as many problems as buffing the only difference is that nerfing a large group vs buffing a select few is various aspects of the game become frustrating unless nerfed.

warrior does need tweaks in some areas so does other classes but that’s not the topic here.

imo by your own logic that popular = op then power creep does not exist in the way you think it is.

you claim that buffing classes would cause power creep yet if everyone plays warrior because it’s op then people would only spread out. your statements are somewhat contradictory.

Well, I asked why engineers were not more popular to get at the very issue at hand.
You want to have class parity in numbers to promote general class synergy and multiple play styles. In short, it is a better game when all classes are somewhat balanced in numbers. That is true of any game that has classes.

I certainly don’t think that the engineer needs any significant buffing (though getting AI to work for rangers and turrets would certainly add something back to the game).

You CERTAINLY can be OP and under-represented or UP and over-represented. But, in both cases, you want to improve the desirability of one class and discourage FOTM creation of new members of the other class. You don’t want to hurt your core members of either class.

Too often you get a class that has too large of a population because it seems more user friendly. Warrior is easy to play with little skill (not that you can’t play it very well with skill). Similarly, you might find that the reason rangers are so popular and UP is because they too are easier in theory to level up. On the other hand, you may find that eles, mesmers and engineers are frustrating in quality of life getting used to either.

You can design quality of life changes to make these classes easier to play or make classes which have become a bit too easy, harder.

In the case of the warrior, I would suggest it become a bit harder to play focusing on survivorability.

In the case of the Ele or Engineer (don’t really know Mesmer), I would focus on simple ways to avoid having a numb hand from all the buttons you have to push to make it work.

You don’t have to be as dramatic in the changes to move populations. You could even make it such that you could get 2x experience leveling a new Mesmer but only .75X experience leveling a new warrior or guardian or give a boost to WxP for under-played classes or glory. That way, you could even focus on specific game modes to encourage players to diversify what classes they play. If you find that medium or light armor classes are generally under-represented, change drop rates.

Look at it this way. There is a monthly award in spvp for kill variety (one of each class). How many times do you bet that your last kill is one of the 3 least played classes and pretty predictably you are having to find one?

Similarly, when you look at a zerg in WvW, what percentage are rangers or mesmers? What percentage are warriors and guardians?

Just because I have an engineer, doesn’t mean I only have an engineer nor am obsessed with the engineer. I keep all my character slots filled I would certainly say there are several classes that have worse populations than we do.

Honestly, wouldn’t YOU enjoy the game more if your enemy had broader class and build balance?

I’ve been playing GW2 for three weeks now, and here’s something I’ve already noticed, and really it’s blatantly obvious. Warriors have a lower learning curve. I was able to jump on a Warrior, and do “OK” almost from the start. The game play is more basic, and straight forward. The other toons I’ve played are much harder to figure out. Like how do I deliver dps, and avoid it, when to cast temps, etc.

Here’s the thing though…I’ve spectated a lot, and I’ve watched 100s of 1v1s, and how can anybody say they are OP? The never are doing well in 1v1 comapred to mesmer, necro, or engineer. It’s just the learing curve. It’s the best class when you are really bad, and probably the second worst after you know how to play? If you nerf them, yeah you’ll see a lot less of them, because…and I’ll tell you I’m bad, but we baddies can do OK against other baddies playing other classes, but when people get really nasty at the game, warrior is “meh”, and my weakness seem to be well known, and easily exploited. I’m much more looking forward to PvPing on my Necro, or Guard. I hear people say "Oh those are OP too….well if you only have 8 classes, and peopel say 4, or 5 of them are OP, is that really possible? I think it’s people that are new, or perpetually bad, and they’d cry nomatter what the balance truly was. Every game has certain group of people who spend an exuberant amount of time crying on the forums…this goes back as long as games have been played online.

edit-english, bad sorry

Dankshasta.6812:

I’ve been playing GW2 for three weeks now, and here’s something I’ve already noticed, and really it’s blatantly obvious. Warriors have a lower learning curve. I was able to jump on a Warrior, and do “OK” almost from the start. The game play is more basic, and straight forward. The other toons I’ve played are much harder to figure out. Like how do I deliver dps, and avoid it, when to cast temps, etc.

Here’s the thing though…I’ve spectated a lot, and I’ve watched 100s of 1v1s, and how can anybody say they are OP? The never are doing well in 1v1 comapred to mesmer, necro, or engineer. It’s just the learing curve. It’s the best class when you are really bad, and probably the second worst after you know how to play? If you nerf them, yeah you’ll see a lot less of them, because…and I’ll tell you I’m bad, but we baddies can do OK against other baddies playing other classes, but when people get really nasty at the game, warrior is “meh”, and my weakness seem to be well known, and easily exploited. I’m much more looking forward to PvPing on my Necro, or Guard. I hear people say "Oh those are OP too….well if you only have 8 classes, and peopel say 4, or 5 of them are OP, is that really possible? I think it’s people that are new, or perpetually bad, and they’d cry nomatter what the balance truly was. Every game has certain group of people who spend an exuberant amount of time crying on the forums…this goes back as long as games have been played online.

edit-english, bad sorry

This guy has been playing for three weeks and has a better understanding of class balance than 95% of this forum

oh and according to Anet, 16% of players are warriors. If the were distributed evenly it would be 12.5%. That’s a mere 3.5 percent deviation from the mean. That’s not really all that out of wack, lol. People see 3.5% more Warriors, and suddenly it’s " everybody is a Warrior", it’s just whining.